Brownell's shipping policy

stagpanther · May 4, 2024, 01:15 AM

I've used Brownells for a long and for the most part have been satisfied with their service. I used to pay the annual feel for guaranteed delivery within a few days, and that worked for a couple of years, but in recent years all shippers have become unreliable in terms of delivery times and it got to the point where nothing was coming on time, so I don't subscribe to that anymore. I do not regard that as being Brownell's fault.

I'm not sure when they started doing this--but when completing a purchase you must either agree to paying an additional insurance fee in case your order is lost or damage, or, if you do not, select the only other option which is that you must agree that there is no compensation in the event of your order being lost or damaged. From the legal contractual point of view, I'm wondering if this essentially amounts to you agreeing to getting nothing at all after paying for it should anything at all go sideways with your order?

HiBC · May 4, 2024, 01:51 AM

Some carriers have criminals working for them. The carrier staff will target firearms related shipments. Porch pirates are a fact of life.
We can't expect Brownell's to foot the bill for third party crime.
What can Brownell's do but properly package your goods and fill out the label?

There is an old understanding "If you don't want my cattle to eat your garden, you fence them out".

If you want compensation for goods stolen or lost in transit,then YOU pay for insurance.
There ain't no free lunch.

Brownell's has served us well for decades. Maybe longer than anyone else.
Thank you,Brownell's!

Lets not bellyache until they give us legit reason.

Its not fair we get stole from. Agreed! Life is not fair. So we figure out how to deal with it.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 4, 2024, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stagpanther

I'm not sure when they started doing this--but when completing a purchase you must either agree to paying an additional insurance fee in case your order is lost or damage, or, if you do not, select the only other option which is that you must agree that there is no compensation in the event of your order being lost or damaged. From the legal contractual point of view, I'm wondering if this essentially amounts to you agreeing to getting nothing at all after paying for it should anything at all go sideways with your order?

I believe this is exactly what that means.

Insurance costs money. Someone has to pay for it. For Brownells to absorb the cost of insuring every package they would have to raise prices on everything, to everyone.

In my former career, our professional liability insurers constantly harped on what they called "risk allocation." They consistently advised us to build that into our contracts with clients. The idea is that the party who stands to potentially benefit from something is the party who should bear the cost of providing that something. Seems reasonable to me. Brownells, unlike some other companies, doesn't insist that you buy insurance, or automatically tack the cost onto the shipping fees. They give you the choice of paying for insurance, or taking your chances that your shipment will make it through the system.

stagpanther · May 4, 2024, 07:40 AM

I respectfully do not agree. Most shipping services already wrap insurance costs into their fees for conventional items, as do most vendors. Those costs are generally passed on to all customers in the form of what the vendor charges and figured into the purchase price. Exceptional items that are extremely heavy or valuable--that's a different story.

All that aside, it's not the practice of insuring that find unusual, or even asking extra for it--what I find unusual about Brownells' wording is that it appears in the process of contracting an exchange of money for a product of value (that has specific legal meaning and protections)--and you must choose the extra insurance or; taken to the extreme of the way it's worded, you essentially have given up the right to receive anything in any kind of condition--you cannot simply skip over the choice.

I know of no other firearms-related vendor that does this in the same manner--do you?

44caliberkid · May 4, 2024, 08:09 AM

I think it’s a trend, maybe just to get more money out of you, but everyone is doing it. We travel a lot and every hotel reservation, vehicle rental, airline ticket, has a vacation insurance fee as an option. If you don’t buy it and anything goes wrong with your trip, you’re just screwed. I was buying lots of basketball game tickets just a month ago and all of them offered insurance, in case your tickets were not accepted or for cancellations. This is because most people get tickets from 3rd party suppliers now like Stubhub or Ticketmaster, and they might be scam tickets.
Employee theft is rampant among all the shippers now. I had a pistol slide I ordered go missing. The guy sent me another one but complained he had had a lot of them stolen. I told him to call the Postal Inspection Service in his area, because it was someone in the office where he was mailing them, that knew by his name and address, it was gun parts. I knew this from 20+ years working at the post office.
When I used to send guns to a dealer, I never put So & So’s Gun Shop on the address, just the dealers personal name from the FFL. If something goes missing, it’s going to be a thief at the originating end or the delivery end, who knows it is gun related merchandise.

5whiskey · May 4, 2024, 10:37 PM

Sigh... I know what this stems from.

Covid broke a lot of routine processes that generally worked well. One of them was the efficiency/accuracy of shipping carriers. Of all the ones likely slid downhill, one slid the furthest (I'm looking at you FedEx). I have my C&R license, and I've ordered firearms shipped to my door. An adult signature is required for this, or it's supposed to be. I've also purchased BP revolvers from Dixie Gun Works that required adult signature upon delivery. On every occasion since 2020, if FedEx delivered a firearm to my home requiring an adult signature... they just left it on the front porch and marked it delivered. I'm a cop, and my agency ordered 8 rifles in 2021. I go to unlock the front door at the PD (I was coming on night shift) one Saturday, and there are 8 unsecured boxed rifles leaning against the door. A few weeks ago, I had to go and take custody of a Kel Tec Sub 2000 from AMAZON!!! that FedEx dropped off there, when it was supposed to go to a local gunshop. It was some poor guys gunbroker purchase, but FedEx botched the dealer to dealer transfer. I ultimately got the rifle to the dealer it was bound for.

If you combine all of these observations... I personally understand EXACTLY why Brownells has that stance. Shipping carriers, especially one of them, has gotten BAD!

stagpanther · May 5, 2024, 12:57 AM

Quote:

An adult signature is required for this

I always thought that was the law, not just a verifiable signature, but one that is verifiably the FFL licensee or their designee. Maybe they draw some kind of exception for law enforcement?

rmh3481 · May 5, 2024, 04:57 AM

If you pay with a Credit Card, and dont get what you ordered, then the Credit Company reverses the charges. That is the contract that all sellers agree to when they agree to accept payment via a credit card.

jcj54 · May 5, 2024, 06:16 AM

Brownells used to ship via USPS, UPS, & FEDEX.
When the whole "ghost gun" thing came up several years ago UPS csncelled Brownells account because they sold 80% receivers. Thus Brownells only ships USPS & FEDEX.
With the many problems with FEDEX it is perfectly understandable why they instituted the $3 fee given the FEDEX history of denying claims because "it was delivered". It is normal for me to have issues with packages delivered to me from FEDEX.

5whiskey · May 5, 2024, 09:35 AM

Quote:

I always thought that was the law, not just a verifiable signature, but one that is verifiably the FFL licensee or their designee. Maybe they draw some kind of exception for law enforcement?

Oh no, it's not an issue of LEO exception (which there shouldn't be one, even if there is there shouldn't be). My C&R guns had nothing to do with LE. Nor the gun they dropped off at Amazon. It IS a law. A law that FedEx refuses to abide by. I've even called BATFE about it. The answer was... yeah we aren't doing anything to FedEx. Several FFLs in the area have confirmed they have similar issues. Guns left leaning next to their door on weekends are not uncommon.

FITASC · May 6, 2024, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Brownell's has served us well for decades. Maybe longer than anyone else.

Like the text I just got saying they have Varget in stock for a mere $64/pound?

dogtown tom · May 6, 2024, 06:53 PM

Quote:

stagpanther
Quote:
An adult signature is required for this

Not true.

Quote:

I always thought that was the law, not just a verifiable signature, but one that is verifiably the FFL licensee or their designee.

The responsibility for obtaining a signature is on the carrier, not the shipper.
Which is odd because no federal law requires notification to a common carrier when shipping interstate.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-2...-478/subpart-C

Quote:

§ 478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.
(d) No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other container in which there is a firearm: Provided, That this paragraph shall not apply with respect to the return of a firearm to a passenger who places firearms in the carrier's custody for the duration of the trip.

Quote:

Maybe they draw some kind of exception for law enforcement?

Nope.

dogtown tom · May 6, 2024, 06:57 PM

Quote:

5whiskey
It IS a law. A law that FedEx refuses to abide by.

And UPS.
And USPS.
And FedEx.

Quote:

I've even called BATFE about it.

So have I.
I now have a sign on my front door telling delivery drivers to not leave packages at my door or with neighbors. They still do.

Quote:

The answer was... yeah we aren't doing anything to FedEx. Several FFLs in the area have confirmed they have similar issues. Guns left leaning next to their door on weekends are not uncommon.

Not just weekends.

Nathan · May 7, 2024, 06:26 AM

First of all, I really like Brownell’s. I’m not sure what is going on there. In the past, their shipping was always 2-5 days to my door. Then I ponied up for Edge. Then I started using them less because even with Edge, local, Midway, MidSouth were beating them with price + shipping.

Now they want $3 to pay for shipping issues. I’m sorry, but you don’t get to aside your responsibility to get a package to your customers that easily. Where are the issues? At your shop? At my door? Enroute?

Frankly, I have never had a package stolen from my door. I’ve had like 3 go “out for delivery” and not arrive or be lost enroute. That is 3 in 30 years from all shipments to/from me…..all USPS. …..so, why the $3? Why does the responsibility lie with me?

I have had 2 products ordered from Brownell’s never show up. They never left Brownell’s. A 6PPC GO gage and a set of grips. From what I can tell, I was never charged. I called several times about both…..they always said it was going out.

Now, most of their inventory jumped another 20% in price, Edge is gone….i’m holding my money for now.

May 4, 2024, 01:15 AM	#1
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,902	Brownell's shipping policy I've used Brownells for a long and for the most part have been satisfied with their service. I used to pay the annual feel for guaranteed delivery within a few days, and that worked for a couple of years, but in recent years all shippers have become unreliable in terms of delivery times and it got to the point where nothing was coming on time, so I don't subscribe to that anymore. I do not regard that as being Brownell's fault. I'm not sure when they started doing this--but when completing a purchase you must either agree to paying an additional insurance fee in case your order is lost or damage, or, if you do not, select the only other option which is that you must agree that there is no compensation in the event of your order being lost or damaged. From the legal contractual point of view, I'm wondering if this essentially amounts to you agreeing to getting nothing at all after paying for it should anything at all go sideways with your order? __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

May 4, 2024, 07:40 AM	#4
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,902	I respectfully do not agree. Most shipping services already wrap insurance costs into their fees for conventional items, as do most vendors. Those costs are generally passed on to all customers in the form of what the vendor charges and figured into the purchase price. Exceptional items that are extremely heavy or valuable--that's a different story. All that aside, it's not the practice of insuring that find unusual, or even asking extra for it--what I find unusual about Brownells' wording is that it appears in the process of contracting an exchange of money for a product of value (that has specific legal meaning and protections)--and you must choose the extra insurance or; taken to the extreme of the way it's worded, you essentially have given up the right to receive anything in any kind of condition--you cannot simply skip over the choice. I know of no other firearms-related vendor that does this in the same manner--do you? __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!* Last edited by stagpanther; May 4, 2024 at 07:55 AM.

May 4, 2024, 10:37 PM	#6
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,667	Sigh... I know what this stems from. Covid broke a lot of routine processes that generally worked well. One of them was the efficiency/accuracy of shipping carriers. Of all the ones likely slid downhill, one slid the furthest (I'm looking at you FedEx). I have my C&R license, and I've ordered firearms shipped to my door. An adult signature is required for this, or it's supposed to be. I've also purchased BP revolvers from Dixie Gun Works that required adult signature upon delivery. On every occasion since 2020, if FedEx delivered a firearm to my home requiring an adult signature... they just left it on the front porch and marked it delivered. I'm a cop, and my agency ordered 8 rifles in 2021. I go to unlock the front door at the PD (I was coming on night shift) one Saturday, and there are 8 unsecured boxed rifles leaning against the door. A few weeks ago, I had to go and take custody of a Kel Tec Sub 2000 from AMAZON!!! that FedEx dropped off there, when it was supposed to go to a local gunshop. It was some poor guys gunbroker purchase, but FedEx botched the dealer to dealer transfer. I ultimately got the rifle to the dealer it was bound for. If you combine all of these observations... I personally understand EXACTLY why Brownells has that stance. Shipping carriers, especially one of them, has gotten BAD! __________________ Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018 https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946

May 4, 2024, 01:51 AM	#2
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,295	Some carriers have criminals working for them. The carrier staff will target firearms related shipments. Porch pirates are a fact of life. We can't expect Brownell's to foot the bill for third party crime. What can Brownell's do but properly package your goods and fill out the label? There is an old understanding "If you don't want my cattle to eat your garden, you fence them out". If you want compensation for goods stolen or lost in transit,then YOU pay for insurance. There ain't no free lunch. Brownell's has served us well for decades. Maybe longer than anyone else. Thank you,Brownell's! Lets not bellyache until they give us legit reason. Its not fair we get stole from. Agreed! Life is not fair. So we figure out how to deal with it.

May 4, 2024, 08:09 AM	#5
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,117	I think it’s a trend, maybe just to get more money out of you, but everyone is doing it. We travel a lot and every hotel reservation, vehicle rental, airline ticket, has a vacation insurance fee as an option. If you don’t buy it and anything goes wrong with your trip, you’re just screwed. I was buying lots of basketball game tickets just a month ago and all of them offered insurance, in case your tickets were not accepted or for cancellations. This is because most people get tickets from 3rd party suppliers now like Stubhub or Ticketmaster, and they might be scam tickets. Employee theft is rampant among all the shippers now. I had a pistol slide I ordered go missing. The guy sent me another one but complained he had had a lot of them stolen. I told him to call the Postal Inspection Service in his area, because it was someone in the office where he was mailing them, that knew by his name and address, it was gun parts. I knew this from 20+ years working at the post office. When I used to send guns to a dealer, I never put So & So’s Gun Shop on the address, just the dealers personal name from the FFL. If something goes missing, it’s going to be a thief at the originating end or the delivery end, who knows it is gun related merchandise.

May 5, 2024, 04:57 AM	#8
rmh3481 Member Join Date: August 25, 2015 Location: Western Pa Posts: 60	If you pay with a Credit Card, and dont get what you ordered, then the Credit Company reverses the charges. That is the contract that all sellers agree to when they agree to accept payment via a credit card.

May 5, 2024, 06:16 AM	#9
jcj54 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2011 Posts: 222	Brownells used to ship via USPS, UPS, & FEDEX. When the whole "ghost gun" thing came up several years ago UPS csncelled Brownells account because they sold 80% receivers. Thus Brownells only ships USPS & FEDEX. With the many problems with FEDEX it is perfectly understandable why they instituted the $3 fee given the FEDEX history of denying claims because "it was delivered". It is normal for me to have issues with packages delivered to me from FEDEX.

May 7, 2024, 06:26 AM	#14
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,349	First of all, I really like Brownell’s. I’m not sure what is going on there. In the past, their shipping was always 2-5 days to my door. Then I ponied up for Edge. Then I started using them less because even with Edge, local, Midway, MidSouth were beating them with price + shipping. Now they want $3 to pay for shipping issues. I’m sorry, but you don’t get to aside your responsibility to get a package to your customers that easily. Where are the issues? At your shop? At my door? Enroute? Frankly, I have never had a package stolen from my door. I’ve had like 3 go “out for delivery” and not arrive or be lost enroute. That is 3 in 30 years from all shipments to/from me…..all USPS. …..so, why the $3? Why does the responsibility lie with me? I have had 2 products ordered from Brownell’s never show up. They never left Brownell’s. A 6PPC GO gage and a set of grips. From what I can tell, I was never charged. I called several times about both…..they always said it was going out. Now, most of their inventory jumped another 20% in price, Edge is gone….i’m holding my money for now.