Lever Action 357 . . . ?

[Prof Young]

Rifle Lovers:

I'm interested in acquiring a lever action rifle chambered in 357. My 357 handguns also accommodate 38 special. I'm assuming that would be true for a rifle as well. Is this a correct assumption?

Life is good.
Prof Young

[zoomie]

Yep.

[9x19]

It is, though sometimes the cartridge lifter may need a bit of attention to get smooth feeding with the shorter rounds. Probably lots of youtoob videos out there.

[44caliberkid]

Probably 50 choices or variations to choose from, from classic to a couple new this year.

[44 AMP]

I've had a couple of the Marlin 1894 carbines, over the years, both the "pre-pushbutton safety" version and I find them to be very good guns.

Very overpriced, today (but then, what isn't??) still have the last one I bought, for $300.

Magazine holds 9 .357 or 10 .38Special. Solid top action allows simple easy mounting of optics (If desired) low over the bore line.

The Marlin does have a few quirks. One is that they don't like ammo that is too long. Friend of mine got some 210gr LRN slugs one time, and loaded them in .357 brass. The bullets had a very long RN and his load was too long for the Marlin and it jammed, solid when he tried to chamber a round from the magazine.

The other Marlin quirk (don't know if this applies to other rifles, or not) is that its a bit picky feeding SWC bullets. My experience is that all the RN and HP bullets work fine, but SWC can be an issue, unless you operate the lever "correctly" and by that, I mean at the right speed.

"Smartly" is the term I use, and that means rapidly, but not as fast a humanly possible. What can happen when worked too fast is that the bullet can "bounce" up enough to hit the edge of the chamber, and where a RN or jacketed bullet will slide in, the square edge of a lead SWC can catch on the edge of the chamber and jam.

Trying to force the round in with continued pressure on the lever does nothing. "Bumping" the lever forward just a bit relieves the pressure on the round and allows it to drop back down into its normal position on the carrier, and it will then chamber smoothly.

Its a small matter really, just an example of a design that works fine when operated the way it wants to be worked, but may not when you don't.

If you're going to be playing "Rifleman" (rapid fire like Chuck Conners in the old TV show) best not to use SWC bullets.

Also along those lines, forget about the cool looking "spin cocking" of the gun. And, not just the Marlin, ANY of them. The gun used in the Rifleman tv show was specially modified to be able to do that spin without having the ammo fall out! Also, you need to be about as tall as Conners was, or you'll hit the ground with the muzzle!

Despite its quirks, I really like the Marlin .357 carbine. Some folks favore the Winchester 92 design, I've never had one, so won't comment, but they have a good reputation.

DO be aware that the carbine length barrel adds considerable speed to the pistol ammunition. 500fps or more is possible. This can seriously overdrive a light JHP, such as the 125gr, which are optimized for expansion at pistol speed and tend to get "explosive" expansion when driven that much faster.

I have pushed 125gr JHPs to 2200fps from a Marlin carbine and that is just too fast for that bullet. 158 JSP do much better, their heavier construction makes them more suitable for game use from the carbine.

[oldbear1950]

Late last year, I traded for a new ROSSI, stainless with 16 inch barrel, 38 special/357 magnum. It shoots both just fine. I replaced the buckhorn rear sight with a peep sight from STEVES GUNZ, replaced the safety with a small pin from the same place, and also replaced the plastic magazine follower, with a steel one at his suggestion.
The rifle has the traditional half cock/safety of the Winchester model 92 rifle, of which this is a copy. That 16 inch barrel is a hoot to carry, and the 357 mag has enough power to shoot the small deer we have here in south Alabama just fine. If you reload, and I do, can vary your bullet from the factory loads really easy.

[oldbear1950]

My two granddads were old time town marshalls/sherrifs in Oklahoma during the 1920s and 1930s during the oil boom. Oklahoma was a wild and wooly place back then.
They also had to deal with moonshinners, as that was just after prohibition, and the Ozarks of Arkansas and Oklahoma had a lot of them.
They carried both old Winchesters and Marlins as their long guns and taught us to use them. They warned us not to be week wristed when using the levers, as they need to be worked hard to chamber the rounds. As a result of the lesson, I have never had a problem working Marlins, Winchesters, Henry's, Rossi, or any of them

[oldbear1950]

I would agree with 44 AMP about the bullet selection, and about trying to be the Rifleman with any lever gun, not only might the cartridges fall out but you might shoot your self in the leg.

[bamaranger]

My comments concerning a .357 carbine pretty much mirror that of 44AMP. I acquired one as soon as they announced the safety.....I wanted one w/o it. Seems like I paid about the same money too.

I found mine to be very practical and carried it a bunch, experimenting with all sorts of loads. I even single loaded .38 spl WC, which was very accurate BTW, micro-groove barrel not withstanding. The agency duty ammo at the time was .38/110 JHP +P+, and I fed the little carbine a lot of that stuff, as there was always a few loose rounds from issue about that needed shot up. When the outfit went to .357/125 JHP I rezeroed to that combo, and as noted by 44AMP, it was absolutely destructive.

These days the carbine is semi-retired, the primary reason being I can no longer run the sights on it's stubby barrel well enough to shoot as good as I'd like. Early on I put a Williams peep on the little rifle and shot it well into my late 50's. These days I would have gone with a Skinner Sights combo of some sort, but they were not on the market at the time and so a Williams it was. I could breath new life into the carbine if I scoped it, but I cannot bare to hang a scope on a classic lever carbine though others often do..

Before the rifle took a back seat, I zeroed it with 158 JHP, which made it a viable close range deer rifle. I carried it a few times, but never got a shot. I also zeroed a Ruger Blackhawk 4-5/8" with the same load but found I rarely if ever carried both guns at the same time, and shot a lot of mid range lead loads from the revolver which required sight changes on both guns to get them to shoot to POA. That rezero business got tiring, not to mention that the guns always seemed zeroed to the wrong load for the purpose at hand anytime I wanted to use them. Now my carbine, Blackhawk and M28 all have their pet load and I do not swap about.........currently.

Anyhow, the .357 lever carbine is a very handy, practical gun, portable and offering a wide range of power and application. As I have stated in print here many times before, .......you will not go wrong wiith a .357 carbine.

[44 AMP]

.......you will not go wrong wiith a .357 carbine.

Actually you can, I've seen it, but when it happens its always the fault of the guy pulling the trigger. Of course, that's also true of any gun.

I once saw a fellow try to dispatch a skunk with a Marlin .357 carbine. He failed, and it was entirely his fault. He shot it twice, too far aft (gutshots) with WW 158gr SWCs. At that point he either lost faith in his rifle, or himself and asked me to finish the skunk.

One shot (in the head) from the .45 Colt I was wearing was more than enough.

IF you fail with a .357, its because YOU failed, not the gun, or the round.

[jetinteriorguy]

I’ve been shooting my Henry BBS .357 for a few years and have had no issues with it. It handles.38 sp fine in my limited use, I pretty much stick with.357 and download accordingly for lighter loads if I want. I don’t want a carbon buildup from .38sp.

[DaleA]

I've always maintained buying a rifle in a handgun cartridge was silly for a variety of reasons. You can read about them here:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=618335

That said, I recently got a chance to fire a Henry Big Boy X Lever Action in .45 Colt. I think this was the first time I've fired a lever action rifle. The price of the Henry was off putting (about $1,000) but the rifle is clean, functional, looks to be well made and is extremely accurate. The fellow that owned the rifle suffers, as I do, from 'Old Eyes' and had mounted a red dot sight on the rifle which he said was very easy to do with an adapter he purchased from Henry.

He said he was acquainted with folk that own the .38/.357 version of the rifle and they have all been mightily pleased.

I dunno. $1,000 is high for a rifle but it sure was fun and maybe you can use my (almost) patented justification/rationalization...'since a quality firearm, if taken good care of, can last well over 100 years then the price per year would be...well considerably less than $10 and I can certainly afford that!' You could use the 'buy once, cry once' philosophy too.

Here's a link to the Henry rifle I got to fire:
https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/big-boy-x-model/

[Kestrel4k]

I tested many 38Spl factory loads for accuracy in my worked-over Ruger 77/357 (0.4" @ 50 yds with good 38Spl handloads)

The most accurate factory ammo by a significant margin was the Federal American Eagle 158gr LRN (1" 5-shot groups @ 50 yds).
Across the board, the LRN loads were more accurate than the plated/jacketed bullets;

158gr LRN: 1.25" avg
158gr FMJ: 2.5" avg

Velocities from an 18" bbl ran 950-1000fps for all 38Spl loads tested.

Hope this helps, in case you were looking to put in a stash of 38Spl ammo.
I think that having commonly available subsonic ammo for a centerfire rifle is a big plus, IMO.

-----

The other extreme is the Buffalo Bore 180gr cast loading, which does 1850 fps from that same bbl length.
(My actual data was 1849 avg compared to BB's published figure of 1850 fps.)

An extraordinarily flexible platform for sure. :-)

[Hellcat1]

FYI, not all .357 lever action rifles are made to shoot .38 Special. I own modern Winchesters, Henrys, Rossis and one Marlin .357. Winchesters actually say right on the barrel ".357 Magnum Only", but before I realized that, I tried shooting .38s, and had difficulty feeding many of the rounds. And the Henry owner's manuals state this: ".357 Magnum is designed with .357 Magnum cartridges in mind. While you can use .38SPL loads, you must ensure they are 158GR with an overall length that closely mimics the .357 Magnum cartridge. Due to the shoulder location on the carrier, the gun will not feed: 110GR,125GR, 130GR, etc. .38 special loads reliably."

My Rossis can be a bit finicky with the types of ammo I use, but it's not necessarily a .357 vs. .38 Special thing. The Marlin is brand new so I haven't had a chance to take that to the range yet; I'm waiting for the weather to get a little warmer and dryer here in the northeast.


Frank

[44 AMP]

Sounds like an excellent reason NOT to buy the "modern" Winchester, or the Henry. Seems barking stupid to make a manual repeater in .357 that won't feed .38 Specials.

I have an older (pre pushbutton safety) Marlin and it handles .357s and .38s just fine, and will do it interchangeably if loaded that way,

The difference in the max loaded length of the .357 and the .38Spl is 0.040"

That is not much.

I believe the only way to make a .357 that won't run ,38 Specials is by intent, and in this case, I think the intent is to screw the buyer.

[Pumpkin]

Many moons ago my brother in law and I each bought a new Marlin.
Mine was in 357 and his was a 44. My 357 was a little finicky with squarish shaped hollow points, his 44 would have fed a full wadcutter if we would have had one. I loaded Speer 225 half jacketed hp’s over not quite a max charge of 2400 and it shot and fed them really well. If I remember correctly, most.429 bullets had more tapper towards the nose than the.357 bullets did. I really tried to make the 170 gr Sierra hp work but it would hang up sometimes on the end of the chamber. The outside diameter of the hp was fairly large.
Honestly, if you can tolerate the recoil of a 357 carbine you can probably handle the 44’s recoil. I wish I would have bought a 44 also.

[44 AMP]

Winchesters actually say right on the barrel ".357 Magnum Only",

Which Winchesters say that??

[Hellcat1]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Which Winchesters say that??

I've got three modern (Miroku) 1892 Winchesters, all in .357 Mag, that have that on the barrel. They're all tucked nice and comfy into their safe for the night, so I grabbed this photo from a quick Google search:




Frank

[oldbear1950]

I have a Rossi R 92 stainless 16 inch barrel 38 spec/357 mag. that I accquired last year new.
I have fired reloads and factory loads, and as long as I keep the length the same as factory loads, and use round nose, or round nose flat top bullets everything has worked fine in both calibers. I
I did replace the buckhorn rear sight with a peep sight from STEVES GUNZ, safety with pins he sells, and the plastic magazine follower with metal he sells and so far has been really fun shooting it.
I also accquired a Rossi R 92 stainless 20 inch barrel 45 colt/454 casull, and have used both factory and reloads for 45 colt. Again as long as I keep the length the same as factory loads, and round profile rounds , no problem

[robertsig]

Does anyone have experience with Chiappa? I'm kind of digging their takedown models.

[jetinteriorguy]

Originally Posted by Hellcat1

FYI, not all .357 lever action rifles are made to shoot .38 Special. I own modern Winchesters, Henrys, Rossis and one Marlin .357. Winchesters actually say right on the barrel ".357 Magnum Only", but before I realized that, I tried shooting .38s, and had difficulty feeding many of the rounds. And the Henry owner's manuals state this: ".357 Magnum is designed with .357 Magnum cartridges in mind. While you can use .38SPL loads, you must ensure they are 158GR with an overall length that closely mimics the .357 Magnum cartridge. Due to the shoulder location on the carrier, the gun will not feed: 110GR,125GR, 130GR, etc. .38 special loads reliably."

My Rossis can be a bit finicky with the types of ammo I use, but it's not necessarily a .357 vs. .38 Special thing. The Marlin is brand new so I haven't had a chance to take that to the range yet; I'm waiting for the weather to get a little warmer and dryer here in the northeast.


Frank

Your comment on the use of lighter bullets in a Henry made me wonder. I’ve only ever tried it with 158 gr bullets and it was fine. So I dug out some I loaded with 125 gr Truncated Cone shaped bullets and they sort of worked. About 40% fed okay while about 60% would hang up a bit. If they would catch you could just relax your grip on the lever and then give them another little nudge and they would feed okay. I’ve only previously shot maybe 100 rounds of .38 before with 158 gr bullets just to do a little testing, otherwise I’ve only shot .357 with 158 and 180gr bullets.

[The Happy kaboomer]

Ive owned a Rossi 357 for over 25 years.......Never had a problem.

[ciwsguy]

That is pretty much true of any tube magazine lever action. Hornady leverevolution 357 mag ammo use 357 magnum cases that are cut down due to the longer bullet length of a 357 bullet, leading to COAL that exceeds max spec length of the 357 magnum round.

So it's not just Marlins that can have this issue. Also applies to Henry.

[Trooper Joe]

duplicate post

[Trooper Joe]

In 1966 (before the Cowboy action interest in leverguns) I had a friend convert a 32-20 SRC into a .357/.38 carbine for me. I carried this gun on patrol as a Michigan Trooper at the Flint Post. The gun was perfect as a patrol rifle since we could use our .38 Special rounds if we had to as well as the .357 rounds.

In the mid 90’s after I retired, I got back into lever guns and discovered that the Cowboy action shooting sport was responsible for the creation of many fantastic lever guns and renewed interest in them.

Trooper Joe