Has the patent run out?? - Page 2

MGMorden · February 23, 2024, 02:20 PM

Patents generally last 20 years. The 336 is LONG out of patent protection (like, over 100 years out of protection). Anybody can make direct copies of it. They just can't call it a 336 or a Marlin as that would violate trademarks (which have no expiration).

czgunner · February 24, 2024, 05:04 PM

I was wondering if the "new" S&W lever gun is a Marlin copy.

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Pumpkin · February 24, 2024, 06:02 PM

2048 will the 100th birthday of the 336.

**Mike Irwin** · February 25, 2024, 08:10 AM

I THINK patents expire after 20 or 25 years, so yeah, long expired.

**Mike Irwin** · February 25, 2024, 08:20 AM

If I remember correctly, the 336 is simply the last in a series of updates and improvements on the Marlin Model 1893.

The 1893 was made from then until 1935 or so, when the improved Model of 1936 was introduced. That was made for a single year and some additional improvements were made and it was reintroduced as the Marlin Model 36.

The Model 36 was made until 1941 or so, when production was shut down for World War II. Although it was apparently cataloged until 1948, when the 336 was introduced, I can't find any indication that any were actually manufactured after 1941. It seems that any that were sold were assembled mostly from parts that were made prior to the halt for war production.

I've always liked the 336. It fits me better than the Winchester 94 and has a lot less perceived recoil. The 94 has always kicked the snot out of me.

But, I REALLY like the lines of the Model 36 a LOT better. Somehow it's more graceful. I think it's the stock contouring.

And an original Model 1893 rifle with a full magazine and a straight stock?

OMG BE STILL MY BEATING HEART!

Pumpkin · February 25, 2024, 11:04 AM

I have a 24” barrel, short magazine tube 36 that is serial numbered according to information I have found a 1947 model. It is in very good condition but the barrel is stamped ADL which would indicate a deluxe checkered stock and forearm. Mine has a wide/full forearm and plain walnut curved grip stock. Inside the stock it has part of the serial number that matches the one that is hand stamped under the lever so it does appear to be all original. I have heard of 36 barrels being installed on early 336 receivers although I have never seen this. Also, the tang and receiver are drilled and taped for sights.

**44 AMP** · February 25, 2024, 02:14 PM

Quote:

The Model 36 was made until 1941 or so, when production was shut down for World War II. Although it was apparently cataloged until 1948, when the 336 was introduced, I can't find any indication that any were actually manufactured after 1941. It seems that any that were sold were assembled mostly from parts that were made prior to the halt for war production.

It quite likely that no model 36s were "made" after 1941. What I think likely is any of that model sold after the war started were "stock on hand" as assembled rifles that just hadn't been shipped before the war essentially shut down civilian production and sales. After the war, they might have had enough still on hand to retain the model as a cataloged item, without restarting actual full production.

I'm thinking demand wasn't all that high for a while after the war, 46-47 were "recovery" years, where the returning GIs were mostly working on getting their lives back up and running, and I think for a great many, getting a new deer rifle wasn't at the very top of their priority lists.

It wouldn't have been on mine...

Pumpkin · February 25, 2024, 02:36 PM

They aren’t that plentiful on GB, which would make sense given the time frame you bring up.
Just looked, 1 on GB, and as usual, priced fairly reasonably.
Maybe because they can be a bit of Frankenstein?
I know mine was less than $200 in the early 90’s and is much nicer than most.

**Mike Irwin** · February 25, 2024, 04:40 PM

"After the war, they might have had enough still on hand to retain the model as a cataloged item, without restarting actual full production."

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Read my reply again, Grandpa!

"I'm thinking demand wasn't all that high for a while after the war, 46-47 were "recovery" years, where the returning GIs were mostly working on getting their lives back up and running, and I think for a great many, getting a new deer rifle wasn't at the very top of their priority lists."

You'd be wrong about that.

Consumer demand after the end of the war was absolutely MASSIVE, and in virtually every product category, including firearms.

The Depression had crushed demand because people couldn't afford new products. Then the War came, unemployment went to virtually nil, and people had money for the first time in a decade, but now they didn't have anything to spend it on.

That pent up demand EXPLODED after the war, and companies were doing anything they could to A) meet demand and B) bring new products to market.

Having money on hand but having a very limited supply of goods on which to spend that money is a recipe for massive jumps in consumer prices.

Know how the government addressed that?

War Bonds and Patriotism.

Support your country, support the war effort, support the boys (and help keep consumer prices in control) by channeling all of your free money into war bonds!

Just like gasoline rationing wasn't really about saving gasoline (it was to a lesser degree). It was mostly about keeping people from driving and thus wearing out their tires. If you don't have to replace your tires, you don't have to go looking for new rubber on the black market.

FrankenMauser · February 25, 2024, 11:14 PM

Quote:

It quite likely that no model 36s were "made" after 1941. What I think likely is any of that model sold after the war started were "stock on hand" as assembled rifles that just hadn't been shipped before the war essentially shut down civilian production and sales. After the war, they might have had enough still on hand to retain the model as a cataloged item, without restarting actual full production.

Hard to say.
My Model 36 has a serial number that indicates 1947 production.
Were they serialized after being in storage? Were they actually produced in '47?
I don't know. Nor do I know who might have the information.
All I know for sure is that my Model 36 has a serial number that dates to 1947.

**44 AMP** · February 26, 2024, 01:45 AM

It is hard to say, unless you have the factory records (which may, or may not still exist). It is entire possible production resumed after the war, does your date source have the serial number range for each year??

did they produce a few dozen, a few hundred or a few thousand in 47??

I have no idea what they actually did, but it seems to me that if I were going to introduce an improved variant, I'd end production of the gun being dropped so I could "repurpose" as much of the machinery and tooling for the new model.

Sometimes gun makers do that, and sometimes they produce both models for a while, before finally ending production of the older version.

February 25, 2024, 08:10 AM	#29
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,405	I THINK patents expire after 20 or 25 years, so yeah, long expired. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

February 25, 2024, 08:20 AM	#30
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,405	If I remember correctly, the 336 is simply the last in a series of updates and improvements on the Marlin Model 1893. The 1893 was made from then until 1935 or so, when the improved Model of 1936 was introduced. That was made for a single year and some additional improvements were made and it was reintroduced as the Marlin Model 36. The Model 36 was made until 1941 or so, when production was shut down for World War II. Although it was apparently cataloged until 1948, when the 336 was introduced, I can't find any indication that any were actually manufactured after 1941. It seems that any that were sold were assembled mostly from parts that were made prior to the halt for war production. I've always liked the 336. It fits me better than the Winchester 94 and has a lot less perceived recoil. The 94 has always kicked the snot out of me. But, I REALLY like the lines of the Model 36 a LOT better. Somehow it's more graceful. I think it's the stock contouring. And an original Model 1893 rifle with a full magazine and a straight stock? OMG BE STILL MY BEATING HEART! __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

February 25, 2024, 02:36 PM	#33
Pumpkin Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2020 Location: Seguin Texas Posts: 462	They aren’t that plentiful on GB, which would make sense given the time frame you bring up. Just looked, 1 on GB, and as usual, priced fairly reasonably. Maybe because they can be a bit of Frankenstein? I know mine was less than $200 in the early 90’s and is much nicer than most. Last edited by Pumpkin; February 25, 2024 at 03:49 PM. Reason: Slow remembering

February 25, 2024, 04:40 PM	#34
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,405	"After the war, they might have had enough still on hand to retain the model as a cataloged item, without restarting actual full production." Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Read my reply again, Grandpa! "I'm thinking demand wasn't all that high for a while after the war, 46-47 were "recovery" years, where the returning GIs were mostly working on getting their lives back up and running, and I think for a great many, getting a new deer rifle wasn't at the very top of their priority lists." You'd be wrong about that. Consumer demand after the end of the war was absolutely MASSIVE, and in virtually every product category, including firearms. The Depression had crushed demand because people couldn't afford new products. Then the War came, unemployment went to virtually nil, and people had money for the first time in a decade, but now they didn't have anything to spend it on. That pent up demand EXPLODED after the war, and companies were doing anything they could to A) meet demand and B) bring new products to market. Having money on hand but having a very limited supply of goods on which to spend that money is a recipe for massive jumps in consumer prices. Know how the government addressed that? War Bonds and Patriotism. Support your country, support the war effort, support the boys (and help keep consumer prices in control) by channeling all of your free money into war bonds! Just like gasoline rationing wasn't really about saving gasoline (it was to a lesser degree). It was mostly about keeping people from driving and thus wearing out their tires. If you don't have to replace your tires, you don't have to go looking for new rubber on the black market. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

February 26, 2024, 01:45 AM	#36
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,932	It is hard to say, unless you have the factory records (which may, or may not still exist). It is entire possible production resumed after the war, does your date source have the serial number range for each year?? did they produce a few dozen, a few hundred or a few thousand in 47?? I have no idea what they actually did, but it seems to me that if I were going to introduce an improved variant, I'd end production of the gun being dropped so I could "repurpose" as much of the machinery and tooling for the new model. Sometimes gun makers do that, and sometimes they produce both models for a while, before finally ending production of the older version. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 23, 2024, 02:20 PM	#26
MGMorden Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2006 Posts: 158	Patents generally last 20 years. The 336 is LONG out of patent protection (like, over 100 years out of protection). Anybody can make direct copies of it. They just can't call it a 336 or a Marlin as that would violate trademarks (which have no expiration).

February 24, 2024, 05:04 PM	#27
czgunner Member Join Date: November 9, 2006 Posts: 20	I was wondering if the "new" S&W lever gun is a Marlin copy. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

February 24, 2024, 06:02 PM	#28
Pumpkin Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2020 Location: Seguin Texas Posts: 462	2048 will the 100th birthday of the 336.

February 25, 2024, 11:04 AM	#31
Pumpkin Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2020 Location: Seguin Texas Posts: 462	I have a 24” barrel, short magazine tube 36 that is serial numbered according to information I have found a 1947 model. It is in very good condition but the barrel is stamped ADL which would indicate a deluxe checkered stock and forearm. Mine has a wide/full forearm and plain walnut curved grip stock. Inside the stock it has part of the serial number that matches the one that is hand stamped under the lever so it does appear to be all original. I have heard of 36 barrels being installed on early 336 receivers although I have never seen this. Also, the tang and receiver are drilled and taped for sights.