Knife vs. D cell Mag-lite - Which would you choose?

[Glock40]

Let's say you have two assailants closing the distance to attack you and hurt you real bad. You can't run and you are in reasonable fear for your life. You can pick a 6" fighting knife or a 4D cell Mag-lite. You can't pick both.

Which would you choose and why?

(Let's assume you are trained in both knife fighting and how to use a club)

[igor]

Obviously in the particular situation given, I'd take whichever comes to hand quicker.

IRL, though, I'd take the Mag-Lite. I wouldn't prefer edged weapons for self-defense; with a blunt tool there's a wider piece available on the use-of-force scale.

BTW, what is the logic in so many here carrying knives? Is it not important to be able to make a clear distinction between stopping an attack and deliberately killing or maiming the attacker?

[C.R.Sam]

Important.
With which does the individual have the best chance of stopping the attack the quickest.

Death of attacker is secondary. Attacker already made the choice.

Sam

[kobun]

Igor:
A knife is foremost a tool, and a weapon second.
There are things I need a knife for every day, but I doubt I'd need a BIG flashlight.
If someone ever says something to the extent that only criminals carry knifes, make sure you point out all the positive things a knife can be used for. E.g. opening boxes, cutting rope etc... Daily tasks.

K.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I carry a knife daily. I do not carry a flashlight, a big honking one or otherwise. I see just fine in the dark, thanks. I agree with Sam; he's made his choice. If he has a club and I have a blade, I may end up with a broken arm, but I'll also be the one who leaves the encounter outside of a bag.

Regards to Mas Ayoob, who gave me this.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[SRYnidan]

First of all as posed this is a lethal encounter (you are out numbered two to one in a disparity of force) so either could be used with lethal techniquies. The knife the prefered choice
1. Faster / more manuverable with multiple opponents.
2. Something I will have on me all the time (as mentioned)
3. Knive has more options available for stopping the fight without my having to commit my weight / balance to a specific attack line (i have more freedom of movement)
4. Better intimidation value.
5. If I was going to use flashlight as impact weapon I would want either my 4 or 6 cell "C" maglite ( better grip more concentrated impact.

Note: I am a Jujitsu instructor and have trained in both knife and stick.

[Cowdogpete]

The mag light is a better defensive weapon. The knife is a better offensive weapon. If two people are coming at me and I beleive that this IS a life threatening situation; as soon as they close distance on me I will be on the offensive.

So I have to go with the knife.

Ideally I'd like both.

[jmlv]

24" sword I bought ar thecrenonsance fair a couple of years ago? The man called it a poinard I think. I practice with it on occosion(ok every once in a while I hold it up and say "there can be only one" but who does'nt?) She swings good has a nice but not razor sharp edge. point works well too. if I can't have my 38 or 45 I want my sword! (not to mention the 120lb Saint & 50lb pit.
JMHO

[Cowdogpete]

Jmlv,

I'd like to try this one out.

I've had some (key word some ) training in the use of a knife in self defense. I am by no stretch of the imagination a professional. However, I think my knife is better suited for this purpose.

If you will get a piece of PVC pipe that is the length of your sword; I'll get one that is the length of my knife and lets have some training practice.

Thanks.

[MLH]

so I could get a clear shot at them!;)

[vulcan]

I would choose the knife because a knife will still cause damage if the strike is badly aimed, where a flashlight will only smart. There is also a physcological advantage with the knife, Drawing blood,even if its not disabling may cause the assailants to break off the attack. The knife is also harder for the attackers to disarm from you. A big enough knife will disarm,dishand, or dishead your attacker, effectively ending it, while a flashlight might.

[pbarrick]

I'd pick the MagLite. Knives require closer proximity than impact weapons and the MagLite would allow me to damage from a greater distance.

Not that the fight wouldn't go close or that a knife is useless in such a situation. But engaging with a knife means that I'm in range of their personal tools (fists, knees, elbows, etc.) and I can use the MagLite from a greater distance or close in.

The tool doesn't really matter if you know how it works. A knife can certainly be used to back off or deal with an assailant. So can the MagLite (read: impact weapon). The specific tactics you would use in this situation would differ with what weapon you had available to you. Also, you could lose either one and then you need to have empty-hand skills to rely on.

[LASur5r]

Kind of depends on what they are armed with(or unarmed with?)

For keeping them at bay and also at arms reach, I'd pick the flashlight, but since I have small hands and the D cell is a little on the large size giving me not a perfect grip, I'd go with the knife....

Depends on your training, you don't necessarily have to maim or kill with a knife....submission holds, wounds in the right places, can change people's minds quickly. Tends to make them want to be elesewhere.

Was threatened by a bully once at a park. He had about a 12 inch piece of pipe, I had my Cub Scout knife. I placed the dull edge of the blade against his throat and asked him to prepare to meet his Maker...or drop the pipe. This after I feigned submission and got close enough to put the non-cutting edge in the appropriate location....kept the knife hidden against my pant leg.

He chose option #2. See? No maiming or killing.

[jmlv]

when it comes to edged weapons I beleave the longer ones [upmto a point of course] have better reach thius are supior to shorter.[in other words a 6' knife vs a 20 inch sword both in the hands of properly equally trained people the sword will win the day. as always training makes a big difference.

[Pat Bateman]

As a victim of 'Mag-Lite violence' in recent times (see other 'Mag-Lite' thread), I would choose the knife.

[eyeballz]

Maglight! And Swing Really Hard!

[Gunter]

Knife. Just came home from a Systema knife class. The knife has its own power and never runs out of ammunition, it is superior in reach to empty hands and may be used to effectively disarm. If there are two guys closing distance they must think they are superior in force and maybe have you cornered. RMA teaches exactly this kind of stuff. All you are interested in is calmly going to the exit. The BGs trying to stop you are just in the way - too bad for them.

[ronin308]

Court issues aside and provided the knife was good quality, I would take the knife. The Maglite is alright but I would much rather be able to bulldog the assailant with a blade.

[Ewok_Guy]

Is it dark?

[CULLENIII]

This is easy---the knife.

The knife is a designed weapon. The flashlight is an improvised weapon.

Advantages of knife-

easy to hold
deadly
easy to retain
quick to manuver

What happens when a person pulls a knife on a cop? They pull there guns and shoot him, and or pepper spray while being covered with a gun.

[wingnutx]

Knife.

An attacker can grab your maglight, which renders it (and the hand holding it) ineffective. Anyone who grabs the protruding end of my Ka-Bar is going to be badly sorry.

If you just nick someone with the maglight, you might cause a bruise. The knife will draw blood, which has a big impact on people. Hell, I've had multiple assailants run away when I started bleeding.

Same goes for probing/stabbing motions. You have to do it a lot harder with the light for it to be effective, and it will almost never be as damaging as with a knife.

A flashlight probably has some legal advantages, though I can easily see a lawyer introducing a big, scary assault-light into evidence.

[atlctyslkr]

Knife, probability of inflicting damage on contact with assailant is higher.

[Ace On The Line]

This question shouldn't require answering but I will, KNIFE. Anytime, anywhere day or night.

[Blammer]

Who SEZ I'm on the DEFENSIVE:confused:
I'll take the 6" fighting knife! Preferably in the DARK:eek: = by the time the BG's see the blade, they'll have both been sliced & perforated multiple times:p ..........By the time they notice the pain & the blood, they're no longer a factor unless I'm peeved enough to STOMP them.:mad:

[Epyon]

I pick knife, why? I don't have to worry about having to keep it moving, it requires less force to use a knife than it does to use the flashlight. I love my CRKT, I've used it many times carving walking sticks and it's still just as sharp as the day I bought it. Beautiful knife, I love it! If I was being attacked and had no firearm, I'd definately want the knife, because I'd rather be on the offense if an attack is inevitable.


Epyon


P.S: For all you gaming geeks out there, what game am I referring to when I say, "You always run faster with a knife.":D

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

A nice big Buck 119 Special would seem to do the trick.

[Dwight55]

I like Blammer's answer, . . . works for me.

May God bless,
Dwight

[Twycross]

Knife. You don't have to kill with it, there are a lot more options than that. But it's faster, and if necessary, can be used to kill faster than a Maglite. And there is the psychological effect. People may think very little of being whacked a few times, but nobody wants to be stabbed or cut.

Although a 6" knife may be a little big for my taste. I am not sure what it could accomplish that a 4" folder couldn't.

[Topthis]

Do my attackers have weapons? What kind? Where are we...alley, parking lot, garage etc. But all in all, I would choose the club. I can bash arms, shins, legs and knees to incapacitate w/o worrying about killing someone. Also, I have trained pretty much my whole life, so competency would be almost equal with each weapon...I choose the least lethal. Slicing and dicing can get really messy too...blood spray and all that. Yuck!

[leadcounsel]

I would take the knife, that's a no brainer.

First, you are outnumbered and need to IMMEDIATELY take down at least one of the attackers. That isn't going to be very likely with a maglight.

Thinking from the perspective of the attackers, if I were an attacker I wouldn't be at all concerned about a defender with a maglight. I could block a maglight strike and suffer only bruising and immediately neutralize the defenders weapon.

However, if the defender had a large 6" hunting knife or survival knife, I would be much more hesitant on attacking.

[Capt Charlie]

First, you are outnumbered and need to IMMEDIATELY take down at least one of the attackers. That isn't going to be very likely with a maglight.

Gotta disagree with that somewhat, LC. I got cut during a fight some years back, and while the injury wasn't horrendously severe, I didn't even know I'd been cut until after the fight.

On the other hand, a 5-D cell Mag Light to the head is pretty likely to put lights out, and I can tell you from experience that the same blow to the shins will have the guy on the ground and howling in pain lickity-split ;) .

[duck911]

My father was a career Highway Patrolman and he always carried a 6 D-cell MagLite in addition to his service gun and baton.

They TRAINED on how to use the MagLite, and better yet, the MagLite in conjunction with their Baton. It has better reach than a knife if someone is closing in, and blocking a well placed full force swing won't result in just "bruising", it can (and likely will) cause nasty compound fractures of the radius and Ulna, will break ribs easily, and one pop on a kneecap - look out!

And, as Capt. Charlie said, upside the head, lights out!

Have you guys actually HELD a 6 D-cell MagLite??? It's quite a piece of metal!! :eek:

About the only advantage I can see with a knife is a badguy won't grab and hold on too long. I discount the psycological advantage, because if a BG is cranked out or otherwise messed up, he's probably not thinking straight anyway.

[leadcounsel]

Knife = fast, sharp, and deadly. Probably 3 deadly strikes in 1-2 seconds. Hard to take it out of my hand.

Club = slow, easier to dodge (a full swing is telegraphed), and while painful you can block it and sacrifice your forearm or with another weapon.

There is no reach significant advantage with a maglight over a 6" knife. Now, if you're talking about a staff, I'd take the staff over the knife purely for the reach advantage. But, I'd take a sword over a staff in this scenario too.

There is NO WAY I'd take a club over a knife unless I stuck up on someone and wanted a non-leathal way of knocking them unconscious.

We're talking about a life threatening sitatuion where you are attacked by two men.

You need to count on taking at least one out immediately, and you can count on him attempting to block/dodge your attack.

With a knife, your best attack might be slash move slash move stab, etc.

With a club your best move might be wind up, swing.... attack less than effective, then you get jumbped. Fight over. You lose.

There are some professionals that state that a knife is a more effective offensive tool than a gun. I have no opinion.

I challenge you to find a credible source that says a maglight flashlight is a more effective offensive tool than a gun.

I rest my case.

[Topthis]

It's relative. I have trained pretty much all my life in several different Martial Arts (no, I am not saying that I am an expert or better qualified to respond), and I will say that if you can get away from the conventional thinking of just swinging a club around and actually use it for surgical strikes to the elbows, ribs and knees of your opponent (yes this can be done very effectively, competently and quickly)...the club is as deadly and useful as a knife...and in MY opinion, much more practical. If you stab a person or even want to slash at your opponent, you have to remember that they are now in close quarters with you and can grab hold of you or DIE and fall on top of you or get stabbed and tangle you up. Slashing with a knife may not be as effective as "slashing"/bashing with a club. Was it Magellan or Cortez that was killed by the Pacific Islander Chieftan in combat...Cortez/Magellan had a sword, the Chieftan had two short sticks. Not that every outcome will turn out the same way...but do not under estimate a 3' broom stick, let alone a 6cell maglight.
Just a side note...I have trained extensively in knife and stick fighting, believe me, in a fight, I would much rather have a stick...a sword on the other hand...that is an entirely different story.

[Capt Charlie]

Knife = fast, sharp, and deadly. Probably 3 deadly strikes in 1-2 seconds. Hard to take it out of my hand.
Agreed LC, but the problem is that death or disablement comes from loss of blood. Unless your strike is directly to the heart or aorta, it takes awhile to bleed out. Unless the psychological effect causes him to give up, he can go on fighting for several minutes, and that's a very long time in a fight!

In 1982, one of the officers I worked with was working a side job as security for a supermarket in a nastier part of town. He tried to stop a shoplifter, who pulled out a straight razor and sliced his abdomen wide open. Roger, with his guts literally in his hands, was still able to rally, draw and aim. (He couldn't fire because the %#$@ manager jumped in front of him & later said he didn't want to be sued :mad: )

I rest my case.
I guess you can't take the lawyer out of the lawyer :D .

[johnsonrlp]

Have you guys actually HELD a 6 D-cell MagLite??? It's quite a piece of metal!! Yeah, I was gonna say knife. But I'm gonna stick with the mag that I dropped on my foot.:mad:

[monkeyboy]

Broken arm, knife in throat.

The maglite is too heavy to really move like a good fighting stick.

Closing the distance is easier in actuality than in sparring practice and then the maglite becomes less useful. A behaviour based attack (IE Rage, Fear) will ensure that distance is rapidly covered and a clash of bodies happens. Fighting on the inside is the knifes domain.

[samsmix]

Okay, I carry a Mag-Light... ONLY because I am in an unarmed position right now. I can get away with this because a good flashlight is needed.

I'll take the knife ONLY because the Mag-light is a VERY slow weapon to get moving. Now, I'm no coward, but my first choice might just be to run away. I am clearly over matched unless they are fall-down drunk. But if I must attend I'll take the knife...EXCEPT...

... IF a knife is a tool, then a 6" fighting knife is a tool with a purpose. Now since all 3 are deadly weapons, and since a 6" knife would be a CCW in most places...WHY ARE WE NOT CARRYING A GUN? If you fear for your safty enough to carry a weapon WHY HALF-@$$ IT?

Remember, they could have knives/clubs, too, and NOBODY "wins" a knife fight. You WILL get cut up some.

[threegun]

The knife for sure. A blow with the maglite to the extremities can be lessened with tactics. I mean you might get one swing hit an arm before I am inside a zone that limits the speed of the subsequent blows thus making them less effective. Given the double bad guy scenario you are up poop creek if both attack simultaneously. A strike with the knife is faster and takes less effort to generate effective speed. If the bad guys get in close it is worst for them. It is much harder to take a knife away from you as the bad guys can't grab it without getting cut. Being wounded by a knife is much more psychologically effective.

If my attackers didn't have arms then I woud opt for the mag lite LOL.

[Bigfatts]

I would probably take the knife. While I might land a couple good whacks in with the light before one of the 2 disarm me, I could definately get the knife into one of them if they are close enough. Then it's one on one. With the light, if someone grabs it, the other assailant is free to jump in and finish it. With the knife, if the assailant grabs it, I twist and jerk it free of his now shredded hand.

Also if one of the assailants gets ahold of me from behind, I doubt I will be able to get enough force into my swing to get him to let go of me. With the knife on the other hand, if I were to be grabbed from behind, I bring the knife down and into his thigh.

I don't think this really applies to me though. I don't take knives to gunfights. :D

[threegun]

I doubt I will be able to get enough force into my swing to get him to let go of me.

Exactly.

Long ago while a student in martial arts I remember being taught to advance in the face of a bat, stick, 5cell mag lite, etc. For the above reason. In addition an overhead strike can easily be block without severe damage by merely angling your arm causing the force to glance down your blocking arm distributing or cushioning it. Slight movement on the part of the hit-tee can cause your strike to miss the mark also. Once you have missed then you are extremely vulnerable.

Capt Charlie, If I knew in advance that I would be able to get in a head blow to each bad guy then I would agree with the maglite. If direct hits are achieved with both weapons the 5cell will stop the fight faster. It is just harder to get that "direct" hit with the maglite.

One thing is certain, they don't want to get into cutting distance of me with a knife.

[qwik]

if i was doing the attack, i rather intended victim to have the light. :rolleyes:

[Blackwater OPS]

Agreed LC, but the problem is that death or disablement comes from loss of blood.

I disagree with this, only because a well trained person can target areas that lead to disablement or even death not entirely due to blood loss. For example cutting the tendons in a person's arm/wrist, if they are carrying a weapon in that hand in disabling and a deep wound into the lungs can interfere with breathing and disable an attacker.

I have mentioned in other threads that I carry a well made folding tactical knife in addition to my CCW weapon, and in fact there are instances where I would attempt to deploy it even before my pistol. The situation mentioned is close to one of them, that is multiple attackers at contact distance, with the CCW/Duty weapon still in it's holster. It is also possible to deploy a knife covertly so an attacker(s) would not even know you are/were armed until you used the weapon.

I cannot think of many situations where I would perfer to be carrying a maglight over a pistol, or even my knife, except that it allows for "less than lethal" force, which may be perferable.

[Erik]

I like a nice impact device as much as the next guy, but I'll be reaching for the knife in this scenario.

[black bear 84]

If the comfrontation happens during the day, I will use a knife. If in the dark I will use one of my converted Maglites (The MAG 951 II with 1050 lumens) this will take care of blinding the opponent, then I can strike him at leisure with the flashlight hitting a joint (knee, elbow, clavicula).

The job is accomplished better if I use my heavy stainless steel Crenellated bezel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/blackbear11784/stippledreflector.jpg

The MAG 951 II is made on the Maglite 3 D host (so it is 12 1/2 inches long) and weights with the crenellated bezel one pound 16 oz.
The 1050 lumens that the lights put outs is more than double of what the Surefire M-6 does.
Here are some pictures

Beamshots from 43 yards away, camera at 15 yards.

Surefire M-6 (500 lumens)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/blackbear11784/SuREF-M-6-500Lumens.jpg

MAG 951 II with the Rolls Royce battery carrier (1050 lumens)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/blackbear11784/lightstippled.jpg

The advantage of the mega light (when is dark) is that you can blind as many opponents as you have, and make your choice of engage them or retreat.
Regards
black bear

[jroth]

For my family each car has a two cell mag-lite from them to grab and use.
In mine, its either the CPL carry or the Buck 110. Third is the vehicle it self.

[LICCW]

OK, first of all, I want to point out that I cannot go into too many details, but I had an incident a numbr of years ago where I had to make exactly the choice posed by the thread starter. I am not kidding, this is no internet BS. I did not choose the Mag Light. I just naturally went for it. Thinking was not involved, only doing. It was very zen. One point of difference, the knife option I had was not 6" it was only 3", but I did not even think about the knife. I went for the Mag instantaneously, and it worked out very well. I respect all the posts and the opinions, and I do not disagree, but I found the Mag Light surprisingly effective in self defence aginst multiple attackers. I should point out that I do have defensive training and did then, and physical fitness training has been a part of my daily life for 25 years.

[FirstFreedom]

Knife, absolutely. If the fight becomes a prolonged one for survival, then making them bleed out is the key. They can pretty easily block your flashlight blows enough to stay conscious, and the adrenaline will keep them going despite blunt trauma blows, even with broken bones.

[mabella]

Buy yourself a HAK hideaway knife and you can have both!

[miscusi]

I'll take the knife, and slit their throats open. and stab them in the eyes

or

I'll take the mag light and crush their windpipe. and bust open their eyeballs.

[M.H. Ezzard]

euwwwwww....Gerrrrohssss.....

[BamaXD]

What about that wonderful contraption that was the D-Cell Maglite w/ the one shot .410 shot gun? That'd beat a knife any day of the week. -BamaXD

[samsmix]

If a knife is just a tool, then a 6" fighting knife is a tool with a purpose. It would also be a CCW in most states. Now since either the knife or club is a deadly weapon, and the heavily favored knife is a CCW, WHY ARE WE NOT GUNNED UP HERE?

If you think you may need to defend your life, WHY HALF @$$ IT?

Is anyone with me on this?

[Scribe]

Over here a knife with a fixed or locking blade of more than three inches is illegal for street carry, period. A pointed article can get you into equal trouble with the law. A 4 cell maglite is not illegal , and lets face it, a maglite is not really a torch (Flash light), it's a cudgel that can be used as a torch.
By the way, in my view if you are facing two or more opponents and have to use a cudgel or edged weapon, and have the opportunity to be elsewhere, that is not cowardice, it's prudence. Put those running shoes on and Golf Lima Foxtrot.

As a side note, due to the edged weapon laws, our home grown junkies have taken to robbing people with large drill bits. Sufficiently threatening to intimidate, easy to explain or discard if stopped by Police, cheap and easy to acquire.

[FRANK1669]

Against 2 people Maglite Hands down ant the resons why
1) Stuck knife- If you manage to stab someone deep enough with a knife you will play hell getting it out again , even if the Knife has blood grooves the suction makes you twist and yank to get it back out. thats if it doesent hit cartilage or bone.
2) Pain is what stops most people A good sharp knife cut IE slicing cut doesn't hurt.
3)don't use the maglight as a club think of it as a fencing style sword jab it into the Solar plexus or the trachea.
4) to be proficient with a knife you need to train with one, just like a firearm.
I have been traing in Judo for twice a week for three years and against two people attacking together I would still try the old heal toe exspress first

[A_Fire_InsideR1]

the knife would be a better choice by far.

the only close combat use I could see the maglite coming in handy for is joint locks, but you would have to be doing some pretty impressive judo to incapacitate one guy with a maglite and still fend off the other.

with the knife, however, you pretty much just swing it real fast and you can keep them both at bay

[Doc TH]

Knife is the better choice:
1) even a glancing strike can disable via injury to muscle, tendons
2) large knife (7" or more) can amputate fingers, hands, etc. - I have seen this often enough in emergency rooms.
3) very few strikes with a baton will be disabling - you would have to hit bone or nerve trunks or the head; these are pretty limited targets - a hit on deltoid, biceps, etc may cause some pain but will not prevent use of that extremity
4) blood loss can be surprisiningly rapid from a large deep cut - this can end the fight much faster than you might believe
5) knife can be used to slash or thrust - the club for is most effective effective with a swinging blow, not a thrust, unless one is very skilled
6) if you are going to swing and not thrust a tomahawk or hatchet is quite deadly and a much better choice than a flashlight

[wolfy692005]

mag lite, less chacnce of "killing" them with the lite but better chance of getting out of the situation ( mag lite is longer) and can break a nose or a knee cap a sure fight ender.. if it is night you can also temp,. blind them with the light

[Snub357]

Knife.

Without question a better weapon.

IF you know how to use one.

Sharp is better than blunt.