Home defense suggestions

[Comcon]

Hello Folks,

I just registered today and this is my first post.

I'm looking for some opinions/suggestions on a home defense shotgun. My girlfriend lives alone on a secluded ranch. She has little experience with firearms, but is interested in purchasing one for home protection. I have debated over which would be best, a pistol, rifle or shotgun. Considering her limited experience, I think a shotgun would be best suited for her.

We've been looking at the Remington 870 Express, the Winchester 1300 Defender and the Mossberg 500 Persuader and Cruiser. Does anyone recommend any of these or have any other suggestions? Regardless, I will be training her on the use of what ever she chooses. Thanks for your help.

[C.R.Sam]

All you named would be just fine.
Many folks here lean toward the 870.

Need to get the lady involved in the selection tho. Fit of the gun to her would be the most important.

The better the fit, the less the perceived recoil, the more fun to shoot, the more she will shoot it, the better she will get and thus the safer she will be.

Suggest you go easy on the loads too. Bout anything is good for in house defence. Don't need window whumpin shoulder whackin stout loads.

Sam...darn, had a comma , left over.

[MJRW]

I'm new to shotgunning, but not new to firearms. What you asked was actually a very complicated question. Living on a ranch by herself, overpenetration of her target isn't as much of an issue as it is with many other people asking a question of this nature. However, this said, I still wouldn't recommend a rifle. Rifles are great at long range. But at short range and in tight quarters, shotguns and handguns are king, with the nod going to the shotgun for power. But as someone said previously, she needs to be integral to this decision. It is recommended that she shoot shotguns and handguns prior to making a decision.

[Dave McC]

Welcome aboard,Comcon. Like the guys say, get her involved in the selection.

Any of the Big Four will do fine for HD. I prefer the 870. But, what SHE wants will be much more crucial than my picks.

She should get some lessons from someone who knows both shotguns and teaching. Second choice, the Archives here are a cornucopia of good info.

Also,I suggest both a handgun and shotgun, perhaps a rifle also. Always have a Plan B....

[Preacherman]

Hi, Comcon. Good recommendations so far. My $0.02 worth - don't forget that women often have problems using a standard full-length stock, as their body size and shape is just not right for this. Also, they sometimes have trouble with the recoil from a 12ga., which is magnified by poor fit. I'd suggest looking at a Youth Model shotgun, which is usually stocked shorter than standard models, and often has a modified fore-end as well for easier reach with shorter arms. I've put the Remington 870 Youth model in several ladies' hands, and they've promptly fallen in love and bought their own. Also, consider 20ga. in this shotgun: you can get very effective buckshot and slug rounds, reasonably priced (I bought 10 boxes of Remington 20ga. slugs just last night at Wal-Mart for $2.77 per box), and the recoil is more manageable for someone not used to a full-house shoulder-charge!

[Ron L]

Amen Preacherman!

Don't discount a Youth model, which, being a bit smaller and a 20 gauge, will fit the bill nicely. My wife used to shoot a little trap with my 12 gauge semi-auto and do fairly well. When I bought my son a Youth 870 for hunting this year, my wife picked it up and safely threw it up to her shoulder a few times and I almost had a wrestling match on my hands. Santa may have to bring her one of her own this year. :D I'm going to try this baby out for myself, it certainly handles and balances well, kicks less, and is lighter to carry.

[Comcon]

I appreciate you all taking the time to post suggestions. Yes, in the end, SHE will make the final decision. Given her size, we have discussed trying the fit of a youth model as well. Cheers ya’ll, Tuesday will be shopping day.

[MJRW]

Comcon,

I just wanted to clarify. I think its important that she shoot them before purchasing. 12 gauge feels nice and light in the store. But shooting it is a whole different story.

[geekdom]

I have a Remington 870P Parkerized sitting behind the closet door that I would trust my life to. :)

[cslinger]

many woman I have met simply do not enjoy the recoil of even 20 gauges. This of course hinders their ability to shoot well and makes them not practice.

Make sure she is willing to practice and can take the recoil. A good rubber butt pad will help. Also make sure she knows that a shotgun is not an automatic hit and kill without any aiming. She needs to practice and aim. Did I mention practice?

I am by no means a shotgun guru but that is my two cents from what I have encountered.

For a ranch wouldn't a nice light weight rifle, such as an AR carbine, Mini-14, SKS, M1 carbine etc. and so forth make more sense? This is more of a question then a suggestion.

Oh yeah any Winchester, Remington, Mossberg etc. should do just fine. It really comes down to personal preference more than anything.

Chris

[cslinger]

it sounds kind of sexist. I am not trying to be sexist and I know woman can shoot shotguns just as good and probably better then most men if my experiences with other firearms can be relied on.

I was only bringing up personal experience with woman and shotguns and in no way am I belittling their skill or abilities.

Heck I know a lot of guys who can't handle a 20 gauge.

Anyway, please don't take anything I have said in a negative way.

Chris

[Matthew Courtney]

A Remington 1100 20 gauge that fits her .

[Comcon]

No worries Chris,

Yes, we will be doing a lot of practice. She is preparing for the expected discomfort of recoil. It's rather ironic as well. Her mother was a very successful competition shooter, but never really spent anytime with her daughter teaching the finer points of firearm use. Tragic I tell ya!

[Comcon]

Yeh, I thought about a Mini-14 for her, it would have multiple uses on the ranch. But, I want to get one myself. What the heck, I’ll probably be moving in with her in the future, (she has hinted at the "M" word stuff.) and we’ll have my modest collection of firearms. Cheers.

[private_idaho]

Yeah, yeah, this is the shotgun forum and all, and I like my 870 for HD, but if overpenetration is basically a non-issue, I would lean toward an AR w/ a red-dot sight and a telescoping stock (useful when used by people of different size and reach.) Lighter recoil than a shotgun, versatile (yeah, I know people that shoot out to 100 yards w/ a shotgun - but I can't), holds more rounds....

[ReadyOnTheRight]

I second the suggestion for an 870 20ga -- possibly in youth size depending on her size and what fits her well. #4 or bigger shot should do the trick.

Have you considered also getting her a .22lr rifle? A nice little Ruger, Marlin or Remington (around $120) and cheap .22 ammo is a lot easier, cheaper and quieter to put a lot of rounds through. Shooting plastic bottles, cans, and clay pigeons on the ranch (with a good backdrop) is fun and will get her more accustom to handling a firearm.

Also -- a .22 is great out in the country to handle problem varmints. A .22 shotshell (like a little tiny shotgun shell) can give an unwanted mongrel dog or cat quite the memorable sting in the behind.

I'll bet the .22 and 20ga combo is one of the more common sets of firearms tools used on American farms and ranches. 20ga in the bedroom closet and .22 by the back door.

[flashbackk]

If it was me I would get her a Saiga .410 or maybe a 20 gauge. A bulletproof AK receiver for $150 or so. After the awb goes away, my first purchase will be a pistol gripped Saiga 12.

[1goodshot]

What about a 9mm carbine of some sort.

[K80Geoff]

Matthew Courtney has it right. A Remington 1100 in 20 ga is the perfect gun for youngsters and women who are not shooters.

The youth model is perfect and will probably be more comfortable for her.
Check at the local Trap and Skeet club for used guns, they are popular first guns for youngsters.

And they are soft shooting and will not turn off a new shooter.

[jklinstein]

Like others have said, she should try out a few options to see what she likes. Like cslinger suggested, I would lean towards a carbine (M4, SAR-1) for low recoil, handiness, cheap to shoot (and practice), OK for indoors, great around the ranch... In addition, I'd recommend either a 22 Magnum or .38 spcl revolver, which could be carried everywhere and only used "up close and personal".

Jacob

[Sisco]

20ga is a good idea, load 'er up with some 00 or #4 buckshot and practice.
I'd shy away from anything with a pistol grip only, not real manageable especially for a newbie.
If she decides a shotgun isn't the route to go I'd suggest a double action revolver in .357. Less complicated than an auto, no safety just pull the trigger and off it goes. Ruger GP100 with a 4" barrel comes to mind.
.357 because you can practice all day with 38 special loads until you get a feel for it.

[sm]

1100 in 20 ga.

[mnrivrat]

I offer the information below mostly as someone elses opinion on the subject.

I give credibility to Ayoob's opinions as he is well recognized in the field of self defense. I may not always agree with specific's but in general I believe his opinions are as credible as most. I am not sure I either agree with him or know why he dislikes the 870 in 20 ga. That is his opinion . Not to mention that long before I heard of him my HD shotgun was a 20 Ga. Mossberg 500 with 18" tube so I take no argument with him on that choice.

The quote below I pulled off the internet somwhere.


"20 Gauge The 20 is an excellent self-defense caliber, particularly for those who dislike the recoil of the 12 gauge. I recommend the 20 gauge over the more popular 12 for home defense. Choose the 20 gauge 3" shell Federal "Classic" #2 buckshot (F207-2-5PK) with 18 pellets, or the Winchester "Double XX" Magnum #3 with 24 pellets (X203C3B). If your gun cannot accept 3" shells choose the Remington #3 with 20 pellets (SP20BK5PK-3). All of these loads provide definitive short-range stopping power. I specifically recommend the 20 gauge for women and recoil-sensitive men who dislike the blast and recoil of the 12 gauge. "Delivering roughly the ballistic force of two .44 Magnum rounds at once," comments the knowledgeable Ayoob, the 20 "delivers 75% of the lead for only 50-60% of the recoil". Many police departments have found their officers shoot much more accurately in realistic training exercises with the lighter-kicking but still potent 20 gauge. If you are new to shotgunning and considering getting one for self-defense I strongly urge you to buy the reliable and reasonably-priced "Mossberg 500 Special Purpose" 18.5" barrel 20 gauge pump shotgun (catalog #50451). This tried-and-true workhorse is the standard shotgun of the U.S. Armed Forces and costs a little over $200. You'll be much happier with the lighter-kicking 20 gauge than the 12 gauge version used by the military, and - most importantly - you'll shoot the 20 more accurately and rapidly. For an in-depth look at the 20-versus-12 gauge issue I recommend all shotgun owners (and potential shotgun owners) read 'Stressfire II: Advanced Combat Shotgun' by Massad Ayoob. Perhaps I am beginning to sound like a broken record on the theme of Ayoob's books, but once you've read them you'll understand why I recommend them so highly (and repeatedly). Note: Ayoob dislikes the 20 gauge Remington 870 pump shotgun and recommends you choose the Mossberg 500 in 20 gauge for general self-defense and home-defense use. So do I. For ultra-close range home defense birdshot will do the trick. Choose any #4, BB or larger high brass lead hunting load, and have the balance of the magazine filled with #3 buck in case the birdshot doesn't put them down fast enough. Avoid slug use in 20 gauge; you are better off defending yourself with buckshot. If you must use slugs, pick the Dynamit/Nobel or Federal "Classic" (F203-RS) rifled slugs. Using slugs requires careful aiming and rifle sights: few 20 gauge shotguns have the latter."

[seeker_two]

Another option you might consider would be a SxS "hammerless" coach gun in 12ga. or 20ga.

1. shorter stock length & overall length...
2. can use sub-caliber inserts in 28ga. or .410 for practice session...
3. easy-to-learn manual of arms...
4. can't short-shuck a SxS...

Just a thought... :D

[sm]

4. can't short-shuck a SxS...
Just a Thought... :D
Let's see what the next poster says :D



seeker_two, classic line that no. 4. of yours. *grin*.

[GunsnRovers]

Nothing wrong with a lever gun either. 16" barrel. As short as any shotgun. A little more multipurpose on a ranch. 30-30 or .44 are big hitters, but easy to manage and control. More so then 12 guage.

Not fancy. Easy to use. Reliable. Not on anyones "evil gun" list.

Lots of advantages to a pistol and lever gun combo.

ps - I can short chuck and SKS pretty far... :D

[grimel]

Isolated ranch? Some carbine in 223, 7.62x39, 357mag (lever), 44mag (lever), 30-30 (lever), 9mm, 45acp, or even 30 carb.

The first two offer great versatility for a ranch gun. Not to mention cheaper ammo, less recoil, and better accuracy than a shot gun.