First person accounts of Defensive Handgunning

[rellascout]

Let me start by saying that I am fairly new to handguns. I got my Sig P228 about 6 months ago. I now own a few and shoot once a week but still consider themselves a newbie.

I read a lot hypothetical posts on this forum and others about defensive use of a handgun. Both inside and outside the home. People post opinions and suggestions of how they would deal with the treat. They give advice about what to do and what not to do. I have often wondered how many of these people have actually been in a situation where they drew a gun because they feared for their safety.

Very few people say when a similar situation happened to me I.... I almost never see posts about real situations people have been in and what happened. I would be interested to hear real life accounts from people about real life situations. It would be helpful to know what they did right and what they did wrong. Did they changed how they train to be better prepared if a similar situation occurred. How fast did everything happen? Were they prepared. Thanks in advance for your replies.

[NYPD9415]

I’m a cop, so I hope I don’t bias your poll.

I’ve drawn down on several people many times; nowadays you just cannot take chances. We do targeted foot patrols in high crime areas in my precinct. We walkup on all kinds of stuff, both day and nighttime.

I’ll tell you once to show me your hands, if you don’t expect to meet the business end of my Glock.

I’ve got a family and a beautiful girlfriend who expects me home every night; I plan on keeping that promise.


Off-duty I’ve drawn a gun only once, I was at an ATM in Uptown about 1 AM one night with my g/f when a pair of guys rounded the corner and made a comment to my girl. We ignored them and left, they followed us about two blocks when I decided to take us both inside a diner, which was crowded for safety. I pushed my gal inside and turned to face them, drawing my weapon, gun in one hand badge in the other.

I simply showed them my badge and asked them if they had a problem, they walked on pretty fast. At that time I caught a good look at both they were just young punks probably no older than 15.

Holstered up, went inside, called the desk and verbally filed an action/contact report with the SOD.

[rellascout]

I don't consider your respnse biased. My brother used to be a cop. He is now in the Marines. I have a great respect for the job that you do.

Thanks for the reply.

[Barry in IN]

Short version-

I'm non-LEO.
Walked in on a break-in.
Bad guy turns with crowbar he used to open door.
I drew handgun.
He left.

Then his partner left- the one that I had no idea was there. That was the best lesson I learned.

[Barry in IN]

Just wanted to add:
I later made a list of the errors I made, and had something like 12.
But I have always believed that the big decision- the one to draw- was correct.

[mvpel]

I was walking outside my hotel room on the way to find a bite to eat a bit late in the evening in Phoenix, and as I was crossing the parking lot, a young fellow was making a beeline across the street towards me.

I was carrying openly, since I didn't have a license valid in Arizona at the time, and since his actions made me a bit nervous I unconsciously brushed my arm past my holster to make sure it was still there. He noticed the motion, then noticed the holstered pistol, and made a 90-degree turn in the middle of the street and walked off in the other direction.

[tc300mag1]

Lucklly i havent had to draw mine yet even though i have come close dont know if guy got a funny feeling or decide me being twice his size i wasnt worth it

[tomgow29]

I can't type well enough to desribe the incident in detail. BG caused an accident on the freeway by ramming another vehicle, assaulted first Trooper on scene with OC and displayed a knife. I arrived on scene to have BG attempt to put extra holes in my head with a hammer.

I decided not to let him do that.

[jerryd]

Does Viet Nam count? if it does yes!. if it doesnt , no!, Hope i never have to either, but if its a threat to me or my family, i will not loose! :)

[rellascout]

Not to call you out, but what were your 12 errors? And how do you train differently now?

[mikikanazawa]

[Draw but no fire.]

I was in my office late one night; late because I was selling some car parts through local ads and the buyer wanted to meet me after he got off work. It was around 11:00 pm.

Two younger guys came to my office, baggy-pantsed with their hands in their pockets. (The baggy pants didn't bother me; it was normal for my type of customers.) The hands in the pockets set me on edge.

We walked from the front office to the stockroom, and in the stockroom I leaned over to open the box with the parts they were there to buy. As I did that, the two guys looked at each other "in that way," and one of them started to pull his hand out of his pocket. In that instant, my Kahr K9 was levelled at him. In the walk from the office to the stockroom, I'd already played this out in my head. Once my piece was out, they both froze and I instructed them up against the wall. The guy that was pulling his hand out of his pocket had a SIG P228. After the police took them away, the officer that took my report said the serial on the SIG matched the serial of a pistol that was taken during a home invasion robbery about a month earlier.

Note that I didn't actually see his weapon before I drew mine... probably not the best thing, but I KNEW what was going to happen. I think the one guy was "patting the weapon" as he came into my office.

[Barry in IN]

rellascout-
Here's a list as best I can recall offhand. I was living in an apartment in a pretty decent neighborhood, which had one common entry door for the 12 apartments in the building. I was coming home from buying groceries. Early in the afternoon.

1- I didn't think a thing about the strange car parked in front. I had not lived there long, so may not have known it was a strange car anyway.

2- I filled both hands/arms with groceries.

3- To open the door (windowless), I had to back in, pushing it open. Due to this, I was inside with the door closed behind me before I got turned around. When I did, I saw a big guy (you didn't expect a small guy) holding in the air the crowbar that he used to pry open my neighbor's door.

4- I was carrying a S&W 3913 in a shoulder rig. I had used that holster very little, and had practiced less. I threw it on because it was "convenient".

Since by now he was coming my way, crowbar in hand, and I would have to do magic tricks to get through the door, I decided to draw.

5- I stood still.

6- Then, rather than drop the grocery bags........

7- I shifted them all to my weak hand, which is worse, and drew...

8- Aiming at his head. Besides being a harder target, that blocked my view of, well, almost everything but his head. Tunnel vision, threat focus, whatever name it is, I did it. The crowbar was still visible though.

9- I then ordered the BG to leave. Remember, I'm still more or less between him and the door. Dork. I wasn't at all blocking it, but he would have to advance somewhat TOWARD the guy with a gun to get out.

At least he stopped coming directly toward me. Stunned at my stupidity, probably.
Seriously, he really didn't seemed that worried. That just shocked me.
Something else- I'm still surprised at how clear and forceful I sounded when I told him to leave.

I realized that I was still somewhat in his way should he want to go, so moved to my right.

10- That was wrong, because that didn't really put him any farther from me as he would pass. Had I gone left, I could've gone a couple of steps up the stairs and put the stair rail between us, besides being farther off his path.
Then again, I could've tripped and fell on them, so maybe that was OK.
I think I chose to move right subconciously- my apartment was that way!

After again telling him to go, he started to leave. But the whole way out, he was telling me not to shoot him. It was almost like a threat.

11- Once he was out the door, I relaxed, lowered the gun, and gave out a huge sigh.
That's when, out of the corner of my eye, I see Bad Guy #2 run from the broken-into apartment, past me, and out the door.
I never knew he as there.
The thought that there would be another had not occurred to me.
I found out later that the apt's occupant kept a Colt .380 Gov't pistol by the bed. Had BG #2 found it, he would've been armed.

I went inside my apt, watched them leave from my window (they backed out, so I couldn't see a license plate), and called 911 as the shaking began.

That was only 11, but close enough. I could probably name more.
The big ones were:
-Even if you can't keep both hands free, be able to empty one.
-Prioritize. There may be a lot going on, so all the more reason to think about the important things. Don't worry about dropping the groceries if you are trying to keep from getting your head smashed in.
-Don't enter unseen areas by walking in backwards.
-Don't use a gun/holster system until you are comfortable with it through practice. Don't just throw that one on as you leave because it's convenient.
-Watch out for tunnel vision. I was very disapppointed in myself over this one, since I had read enough to expect it. Tunnel vision got me by focusing at his head, and caused me miss #2 completely. I focused on the guy I SAW, although he was standing by an already open door when I came in. Why would I think he was by himself?
-Don't give someone a command they can't do.
-Don't stand still.
-If you move, move to a place that improves your situation rather than worsens it.
-Just because you took care of the threat you see, don't relax, because you may not be done.

At the time, I had no formal training, which I have since begun to correct.
Still, I knew better anyway.

I now try to stay more aware of my surroundings, I keep at least one hand
so I can free it, I watch for cover and avenues of escape.
I have started getting formal training. Naturally, I was ready that day, but a back injury soon after that squelched a lot of things for a while.
The biggest changes in my shooting practice are that I now practice movement while shooting, and I look around before reholstering.

It all seems obvious now, but strolling in with groceries at 2:00PM, and getting into that, it didn't.

[vitesse9]

My girlfriend and I were driving in north Florida when I got too tired to keep driving safely. She said that she was just as tired so we did the only safe thing: pull off the interstate. We were in an isolated area, but there was a truck stop at the top of a hill just above the off ramp. I pulled into what I thought was the long driveway up the hill to the truckstop. Turned out I'd turned into a vacant lot fenced on all sides but the entrance.

We decided that such an isolated spot would be okay to rest for 15 minutes or so. But girlfriend got the creeps after a about two minutes and decided to switch seats and drive on. Just as we got situated (me now in the passenger seat) a truck pulled into the lot and blocked the only exit. Weird. It was way past midnight, middle of nowhere. Anyway, a guy got out of the truck and walked around to the driver's side. Girlfriend scrambled to lock her door and I drew my Taurus 85. We were blocked in the lot by his truck, and we weren't about to get out of the car and make a run for it. Only option was to stand our ground.

When the guy got close enough to see us, he quickly stopped and apologized. He seemed to realize that we were not the people he was looking for. Okay fine. But, just a moment later, a truck that looked almost exactly like mine pulled into the lot behind the first truck. As soon as they realized that there was a third party present, the peeled out in reverse and took off down the road. Girlfriend and I looked at each other and said, it was a drug deal, and that guy thought we were the other truck!

The guy never saw the gun (it was drawn, but concealed under my shirt). However, I really appreciated having my little snubby with me that night.

Probably wasn't a good idea to stay in the lot. But we were only there for about 3 minutes when the guy showed up. Given the fact that it started as a wrong turn, he could have easily followed us in whether or not we had planned to rest there for a few.

Glad I didn't have to use my gun. But also very glad I had it with me.

[kcpro]

Interesting, informative thread.

[michael t]

I will only say I drew, fired ,missed, round hit about 4in from head BG did #1 and# 2 in pants :eek: and fainted. Also did 8 years. :D

[Ozzieman]

Once at a gun store that I work at for 12 years. the windows were covered over with large advertising sighns and you could only see out the door.
I was setting behind the counter when I saw one shadow cross the windows.
The door swung open and the double barrel of a shot gun stuck in first and the person yelled out "IN there!"
I must add that there were large sighns out side saying "No uncased guns"
When he walked into the door he looked into the barrel of a mod 24 smith. He quickly droped the shotgun when he figured out what he had done and we both appologised to each other. It was his son he was yelling at. And the son never saw my gun. It is the most afraid I think I have ever been.
Second.
Next door neighbor had a car stolen early morning. That evening less than 2 blocks away I stoped into pick up a pizza, less than 50 feet away sat my neighbors car. Running. at a gass station.
I drove my next to it. and got out. there was a blue rag wraped around the stearing colum ( interror was blue) I stood there with a gun behind my back.
A young man came out and threw somthing in the back seat as I walked around the car. He looked at me and asked what I wanted. I said nothing until I got close to him and took hold of his arm and brought my gun to where he could see but not grab and said that the car was stolen and he was coming with me inside the station.
I had 5 poleice cars there within minutes.
One of the fine officers asked me how I new the car, you see it was a very common GM.
My neighbor's best friend is a poliece man and is also a friend of mine.
He gave my neighbor a bumper sticker and it read.
"If you think all cops are bad, think how bad life would be without them"
They got a kick out of that.
You might ask if I would have shot him if he had run, my neighbors sons did. I told them that I would have just wayved good by, but he diddnt know that. And the way his skin went all white when he saw the gun told me he wasnt going to give me much trouble.

[Walter]

..I had to brandish a pistol to keep some one who HAD A KEY to my
hotel room from just walking in and making themselves at home.
I travelled all over the country in the 80's, installing equipment in
restaurants. I stayed in hotels a LOT.
You would be surprised how many times the wrong key is given to the wrong person at hotels. Probably the only thing that kept me from shooting
someone is the safety chain on the doors. I always heard the door open, and the resistance of that safety chain gave me the time to react.
Most of the time I just had to go to the door and explain that the room was
occupied. But a couple of times the person got angry and tried to force the door open. The sight of a 1911 .45 acp changed their minds.
I did not consider service in Viet Nam into my answer, since I don't
consider that to be "defensive".

[abelew]

Ive laid a bead on a few guys, but that was AF stuff.....not defensive.

[abelew]

Ive laid a bead on a few guys, but that was AF stuff.....not defensive. We worked in teams, and one would cover while another would approach, always with a good shot before approaching (werent doing law enforcement). Wasnt really defensive, as in deterring a threat.

[ebd10]

To make a long story short...BG calls me up and threatens to come over and shoot me. A few minutes later, I hear glass breaking. Look to see BG climbing through window. End result: Me 1, BG 0.

[Hollowpnt]

Never really felt good to talk about the last answer choice to me anyway, others, in de-briefings or crisis-managment, or code-red recoverys, (whatever the shrinks want to name it this week) seemed okay with it. And admittedly there is relief. Hell your alive, but I never felt good.
I will say I have been drawn down on by LEOs as well, no problem. I'm a big guy, 6'3'' and you never know what's going to happen moment to moment. So no worries ever. You guys stay safe. Once my readout poops up and you know I'm not a perp, I'm on my way. Can't believe the noise some people make about being detained. Sheesh, Any how Stay safe.

[rellascout]

Thanks to all that replied. Barry in IN your type of post was exactly what I was looking for. We all train and prepare the best we can but when the BG is right in front of you s**t happens. You gave a lot of good practical advise. I guess the conclusion is to train, train & train again. Thanks you again to all that replied.

Rellascout

[Mr. Chitlin]

Pulled twice, never used.

Once in a mall parking lot one afternoon a few years ago, the wife, 2 small kids and I were walking across the parking lot heading toward the vehicle. I am ALWAYS watching everyone and everything, just comes from my years as a firefighter and the areas we had to go into at times. Anyway, I see 2 brotha's making their way toward us from 2 or 3 rows over, winding fast through the vehicles and looking straight at us. We were close enough to the car that we got it unlocked and I ordered my wife and kids to get in the car "NOW!!". I had a little Taurus PT22 that had been in my pocket and I was now palming it. When they saw me keeping a keen eye on them, and the rest of the troops were safely in the car, they backed off. They never saw the gun, but did see me watching them.

Second time, I was in my vehicle driving down a street in the middle of the afternoon. There wasn't much traffic on the road, and up ahead I saw a brotha with a long "trench" type coat on slowly walking across the road. I figured he would have time to get across before I got to him. Instead, he stopped, me approaching his left side. He just stood there a look at me for a few seconds, and then stuck his hand under his coat. I don't know if he was reaching for a gun, a club, or scratching his side. I kept a Glock 27 in the console compartment, and I already had my hand on it. When he stuck his hand under his coat, I stuck the G27 up to the windshield and pointed it at him. He ran as fast as he could across the road. If anything had been coming in the other lane, he would have never seen it.

Hope to never have to do it again.

[FrostyBoy]

You can never be too careful.

When I was in college, my dad dropped me off in Milwaukee and was driving back to Houston. He likes to take his time and see the sights. Anywho, he stopped on some backroad rest stop in Missouri to catch a nap. He told me that he woke to the sound of a Harley pulling up. He opened his eyes and looked around w/o getting up from his reclined position. There was a big rig on the far side of the stop and he was the only other car there. This big biker dude pulls alongside and raps on his window. Stereotype biker boy pulls a handful of jewelry out of his pocket and offers to sell some to dad to pay for gas money and such. Dad says sure and tells the dude he is getting his wallet from the center console of the suburban. Without taking eyes off the BG, dad asks if he'd be interested in trading instead of selling. BG thinks he's got dad on the hook and bites. Dad asks if he would rather trade six JHPs from his 686 SW for the guys Harley. That dude left two tracks leaving the rest stop. One on the street and one in his pants.

Going to school my senior year, I stopped in Sikeston, MO for the night. Woke up to the pounding on my hotel door. My truck was parked in front and I could see through the crack in the blinds that two undesireables were looking frantic and pounding the door in. I always keep my valuables in the room with me when I travel. My valuables at the time included a new laptop Dell, my CD case and player, and my 870 12ga. I was taking for hunting that year. I hollered through the door "Whaddaya want?!" and the guys reply that they are being chased and need a place to hide. I uncased the shotgun and then threw open the shades and tapped the window. The look those chumps gave lit up the night. They took off around my truck and were getting into a car I couldn't see. I open the door and shout that I have no problem shooting them THROUGH the truck if they don't leave me alone. (actually, I did...the gun was unloaded!!!) The cops later caught the guys doing the same thing at a hotel down the street. One guy was not lucky as he caught two rounds from an out of town state trooper sleeping at that particular hotel.

[HighVelocity]

Middle of the afternoon, standing at ATM, 2 guys walking up behind me at a fast pace. There was a large piece of tinted plexiglass across the top of the machine that tilted down and I could see their reflections in it. They could also see me looking at them and my hand on the Colt that was in the front of my pants. They retreated.

[beenthere]

Many years ago a relative who was a police officer was working a part time job watching a large menswear store overnight, prior to a security gate being installed. I went out to take coffee and sit & talk guns, family etc. The store was located about four blocks from the clubhouse of a local motorcycle gang. About Midnight, 10 - 12 bikes roared into the lot and started rolling around the car. My cousin shook his head and placed a 1911 .45 on the dash and looked at me. I shrugged and placed a 1911 .45 on the dash. He reached down, grabbed a S&W Highway Patrolman and placed it on the dash, I put a S&W model 60 on the dash. He reached over the back seat and pulled a Pump shotgun to the front seat. I said "sorry, thats all I've got". They roared out of the parking lot.

A lot of overkill but it definitely kept a problem from developing.

[Dusty Miller]

Hey, who sez bikers are stupid!!