My new apartment - in a not so nice area

[The Colin]

Hello all,

So i recently moved to tiny one bedroom apartment. My roomate moved out of state, and so i had to scale it down a bit. My place isnt that big, but is quite cheap. Problem is i thought the area was much nicer than it has turned out to be. From all appearances its really nice place, gated and what-not. Since i've moved in however i have heard all kinds of noise in the parking lot, and seen a few guys looking into car windows at 3 a.m. Last night was the final straw, i chased 2 guys away from my truck weilding my mag-lite and a cell phone. After talking to a few neighbors they said there have been some break-ins of apartments at night etc.

Any advise on best HD for a small place like this? I'm upstairs so i have people on 3 sides of my unit and below me. The layout has a lot of tight corners, and there is only one way in and out of the apartment and one way out of my bedroom.

Pistol or shotgun? What kind of load for either? Obviously penetration and the tight turns are huge issues.

Thanks for the Help!!

[drufus]

Definately a pump shotgun. Remington 870 or Mossberg 500. Just the sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round would scare the crap of of a prowler. :eek:

[PSE]

first off you need to think about what you intend to do in a 1 bedroom apartment. are you gonna call the police and wait or are you going out looking for the threat. those are 2 seperate things. one is called home defense the other is called home offense.
for HD i stay put w/ a shotgun ( #9 2 3/4" loads)pointed at the door giving verbal commands while on the phone w/ the police " leave my home now, i am armed and the poice are on the way". forget all that pumping the gun nonsense. BE READY ALREADY.
home offense is a different story. most people hear a bump in the night and grab a gun to investigate. MOST people would get killed trying to clear an average size home.
keep in mind, you cant simply go out into the parking lot w/ a gun and confront someone breaking into your car much less looking in your windows.
see sig. line below...

[The Colin]

Oh i know i'm not going out to the parking lot. However the repeated presence of potential BGs snooping through cars doesnt provide much comfort. I'm all for calling the police first and camping out in the bedroom, but if push comes to shove i'd prefer to err on the side of caution and just be ready.

[jlwatts3]

I would get both a pistol and a shotgun. A shotgun for when you are in the bedroom on the phone w/ police. A pistol for when you have to go investigate outside. Also a good flashlight and a can of liquid karate (pepper spray).

[InToItTRX]

Just remember it is against the law in Arizona to shoot someone for a property crime, however you can threaten them with a gun, but you would not be able to use it unless they threatened you with a deadly weapon, which take into account could be their fist. I would go with a handgun, easy to conceal on yourself in your own apartment, and I would look into getting a CCW so you can conceal it when your leaving and returning from your apartment. Remember Arizona is an open carry state so your legal to carry it on you so long as it is visible to everyone. It is also legal for you to keep it in your glove box so long it is in a holster!

[Barry in IN]

Don't overlook the possibility of coming home and walking in on something.
The one and only case where I've drawn a gun in almost 22 years of licensed carry was in exactly that situation. To prepare for that, you need something that you can keep with you.

Naturally, the easiest type of gun to keep with you is a handgun. I don't know what the laws are there, but carrying a handgun from your car to your home could be OK most places.

[Derius_T]

For a small apartment lke yours I would recommend a smaller 'home defense' style shotgun. (ie pistol grips, no stock, ect.) That way it is easier to handle and bring to bear in a small, confined area, and easier for you to control if you are in a less than optimum firing position. You can also load it with very light (but lethal at that distance) loads, so you don't have to worry about penetrating walls and hurting innocents in next apartment or something.

And as for that 'rack a shotgun and scare 'em to death' nonsense. Forget all that silly crap. There are people who don't scare so easily, and giving them the chance to hear the threat and evade, can cause them to be more likely to kill you before you can do it to them. All that scare 'em with the pump shotgun nonsense is just ignorant TV crap....

[Meiji_man]

One thing about the open carry in Arizona...
I'm not sure if AZ has a branishing law. but Utah did. Which ment if you refered to the gun, placed your hand on it while talking in a threatening way, or flashed it, you could get in trouble.
BTW where in Arizona are you in?

[InToItTRX]

Arizona does have a branishing law. So it would be best to get a CCW or to open carry, if it were your own home you would not have an issue, however the parking lot is not your property so you would need to open carry it.

So like I said before it would be best to get a handgun to start, you can keep it with you in your apartment, even concealed so long as it is in your own apartment, when you leave you can open carry it, get a holster put the holster in your glove box, and then it is almost always with you. Just make sure to take the gun with you into your apartment you dont want someone to steal your car along with your gun.

[The Colin]

I live in Phoenix - 44th St and Indian School area.

I have a pistol (Sig Pro 9mm) and i suppose i am now in the shotgun market. My buddy has a Rem 870 Marine Mag - I'll most likely go with an 870 express.

I've been debating my CCW, i guess my only hold up is finding a weekend to commit to out at Ben Avery. But it seems that it would be the best solution to my problem. I'd have to keep it in my car while at work, that wouldnt go over to well with the boss.

I am very reluctant to open carry in Phoenix. I actually dont think i've ever seen it here in town, where as i have definatly seen it in Tucson or Prescott area.

BTW - the guys i've seen in the parking lot at 3 am are not the cuddly type... i'd be amazed if they were not carrying so its not just the property crime i'm worried about.

[Avizpls]

If you want to leave it in the car, leave it in the car and dont mention it to the boss. If you decide to carry concealed at work, CONCEALED would be the key word.

[LAK]

Both handgun and shotgun.

You can keep a handgun by your side - or wear it - at all times when home. When you turn in for the night, you can still keep it handy to backup your shotgun.

The other thing you need to do is move. I have lived in places like you describe at one time or another. Sooner or later it will be your car - or your apartment (probably when you are not home).

[Matis]

The other thing you need to do is move. I have lived in places like you describe at one time or another. Sooner or later it will be your car - or your apartment (probably when you are not home).
_____________________________________________________________

I second what LAK said above.

There is no real solution for living in a bad neighborhood except to move out.

If money is tight, how about renting a room with kitchen priviledges in a single family residence in a good neighborhood? Sharing someone's house, in other words.

Or perhaps renting a garage apartment in a good neighborhood?

Bad neighborhoods with bad people are sure trouble.

You can buy just the right firearms and learn good tactics. But do you really want the grief and expense that comes with shooting someone? Even a righteous shoot will cost you plenty in money and the grief they'd give you.

If we had rational and equitable laws, you would be legally justified in shooting someone who invaded your home or your car -- even if "only to rob" you. Then we'd have fewer bad neighborhoods and fewer bad guys.

But we don't have such laws. So perhaps, if you can manage it, the best tactic is to move.

Then your firearm and tactics could be deployed for a circumstance you would be much less likely to encoounter.

Best luck to you.

matis

[Meiji_man]

44th and Indian School...
Not the best neighboorhood but not the worst.
I live down at 12 St. between Indianschool and Camelback, when I get my 81mm mortor off of layaway we can preplot you some firesupport!

I agree with pretty much everything everyone has said. How ever if your worried about your car and if your on the second floor, and it's the apartments I'm thinking of, you can always just walk out on your porch, smoke a cigarrette and watch them, most people leave right about then if they're up to no good. I've done that before acouple of times, never had to call the cops. I make my self obvious with out being too obvious and people leave.

[InToItTRX]

I am going to be transferring soon to Phoenix PD, currently work in Scottsdale PD, with all of the officers on Phoenix PD dropping like fly’s they are offering a great pay increase, I will have to tell some officers that work in the correct team to patrol your apartment complex more. If you went to apartment management and asked them to contact Phoenix PD an officer would be more then happy to work on his paperwork their, I do that with several shopping centers on my shift.

[PsychoSword]

The Colin, get yourself a good NV scope, .300 WM and just snipe em from the window. ;)

InToItTRX you have PM. :)

[DarkKnight01]

more states need to become Texafied... Texas has some great laws... like being able to legally shoot someone for property crimes.. IMO anyone that messes with a mans car deserves to die =) you just dont do it..

the advice on talking to the PD and having them do their paperwork and such in your parking lot is a great idea... something i never really thought of.. i believe they call it something along the lines of presentational control... if theres a cop around people arent gonna do anything stupid... well most of the time anyway..

but the best advice is to move =) move to a nice town....... in Texas =) its a wonderful state... i miss it dearly

[PsychoSword]

I understand that everyone's beloved Texas has some strange knife/sword type laws though....

[DarkKnight01]

I understand that everyone's beloved Texas has some strange knife/sword type laws though....

really? hmm thats interesting... never really looked into it.. as i have a love for blades as well.. i thought it was no different than most states... if its bigger than the palm of your hand or some such nonsense you have to have it open and visible, such as on your belt in a case.

[chris in va]

Might want to reconsider the Express. Several people have commented it's not as good as the previous Wingmasters, which you can find used in good condition.

[Derius_T]

The 870 Express has put plenty of rabbits and squirrels in my freezer. Nice gun.... :)

[Chuck Jennings]

I know it is too late for this advice, but here it is:

Whenever I am checking out new digs, I check it out in the daytime, and I drive around the area at night a few days in a row. (Make sure you do it on the weekend also.) This will give you a better picture of the element that hangs around your prospective neigborhood.

[The Colin]

well i know i definatly messed up this move. I'm hoping on only staying a few months tops.

I mentioned the problem to the leasing office and they said "oh just call the police" - yeah well ... no kidding.

Meiji - i'd definatly appriciate the fire support. I'll let you know when to hang a few my way.. haha

InToItTRX - I'll bring that up with the manager Monday. She doesnt seem like the pro-active type so we'll see what happens.

Yeah i've headed out to my balcony a few times at 3 a.m. to see whats going on, and they have usually run around the corner. I do think the much more likely situation is that i come home to someone in the apartment. So i suppose the CCW it is.

[AUG]

Pistol or shotgun?

Pistol. This usually falls on deaf ears on the gun boards but hardly anyone can handle a shotgun as well as they can a pistol. Shotguns have a lot of "tactical" appeal but just having one and racking the slide is not enough. Serious professional training is required to use one properly.

As for the specific handgun you can pretty much walk into any gunstore and grab anything 38 spl or larger and consider yourself well armed.

[38splfan]

DO NOT underestimate the walking-in scenario. I also live in a high-crime area and that seems to be a common scenario here.
Concealed carry is a very viable option if available to you.As it is an apartment, I would recommend Glaser safety slugs or some other type of ammo that will not punch through a neighbors wall.

[Meiji_man]

I just read an awsome little article in the local nieghboorhood news letter. An Apartment owner bought him self a 30 unit apartment complex and they day he show up to it for the first time the cops are crawling all over it arresting a guy. So he investigates and finds out this is normal there. The seller didn't bother to disclose that info to him.

So he moves in for a time, starts harrassing anyone who shows up and he doesn't recognise, ejects some bad tennents, remodels the place and gets in contact with the local police. he then turns an apartment into a local police substation. The cops now have a place to hang out and do paper work, and he gets the added presence.

If you plan to move I'll get the info to you. I drove by the place yesterday. Looks much nicer then it has in the past.

[Edison Carter]

Sounds like my old place in Mesa.
Brown and Recker....
:rolleyes:

Absolutely , arm up.
Don't forget hearing protection....
Electronic muffs if possible.

But speak with an attorney about breaking the lease,
and moving. In a place with physical danger it should
be no great trick.

Cheap rent is not attractive enough to compensate
for the legal hassle of shooting somebody.

[Shamus]

<SNIP> I do think the much more likely situation is that i come home to someone in the apartment.

I'm a bit late with this post but if your concern is the above I'd reconsider having a shotgun in the apartment while your away. Last thing I'd want to see happen is to have you shot with your own gun.

Consider a few alarms inside that an intruder will trip. Nothing like an alarm sounding for a few hours until you get home from work to get managements attention too.

I rigged up a small LED light above the balcony that would flash if the apartment door had been opened. I turned it on when I left and would shut it off as I entered. If anyone entered my apartment while I was gone I'd see the blinking light as I walked through the parking lot. Only had it trip once and scared the crap out of me. Called 3 friends and LE before we went in. Turns out the Manager had been in the apartment while I was gone.

Stay safe.

[Meiji_man]

I"d like to see a schematic for that

[The Colin]

Well what i have done is buy 3 motion sensor night lights from Home Depot. You walk in the door when they are on at night and instantly the Kitchen and living room are fully lit.

That does nothing for me walking home to find someone in the apartment, but anyone coming in at night will be greeted by some blinding light.

I have decided to go ahead and get another handgun, something i can have with me at all times. I'm currently leaning toward a sig p232 or p239.

Just an Update on the whole situation - I have started looking for another apartment, and i think I have complained enough times that the manager will be happy to get rid of me.

[Shamus]

I"d like to see a schematic for that

No schematic required. Off the shelf stuff. Genie remote wall reciever. Plugs into the wall and you plug a 110v lamp into it. (Triggered by your remote controler)

I replaced the remote button with a single trip limit switch glued to the outside of the remote case and velcroed to the door frame. Door opens and the transmitter sends a signal to the reciever relay, plugged in on the other side of the room. Once it is tripped (which would normally turn on a lamp) but instead I used the low voltage (24v) side of the relay in the reciever to power up a 24V LED that was hard wired up the sliding door molding and velcroed on top of the balcony porch, outside.

I had to reset the limit switch (arm) when I left every time or no signal would be sent.

It did work well and for months I never gave it a thought. The one time I saw the LED lit, and it was a tiny little light, my eye was immediately drawn to it as I walked from my car. Since I worked nights I wasn't concerned about security during the day. That would have been a whole new problem.

[Anarx]

ok i have a few questions on this...

one its not hard to set up swichs and such.. replace the limet swich he used with a Reed Swich and you chould set that up on all the windows. doors in the house with realitve ease...

the main thing i would worry about is broken windows.. in that case non of the swichs would work and you would have no forwarning *perhaps* i want to find something that i can put on the glass of a window that when the window is broken will activate...

other things like the moition dector lights i like...

i would say if you can just have a desent alarm system installed.. get some price quotes.. but i dont think it would take much to install one... just a little electiracal and construction know how...



the other thing i'm wondering about is the legal ramafacations of using rubber rounds in a shotgun?? like i have seen 00 rubber buckshot that would work nicely.. i am the kind of guy who feels a little ray of hope for your avarage BG.. most of the people who do this stuff are stuped misguided kids on Meth.. these kind of kids with the right care can be turned around.. plus the emtional guilt not the mention the rest of the legal stuff with just flat out killing somebody..

i think that just about covers it...