concealed carry in Maryland

[REDCELL]

I was wondering if there is concealed carry in Maryland. If so is it stringent, and does it only cover Maryland?

[gb_in_ga]

Welcome to the forum!

Try looking at www.packing.org for CCW information, broken down by state and with local statutes as well. And they do try to keep it up to date.

[REDCELL]

thanks for the welcome and the advice.

[novus collectus]

Red Cell,
I looked at the Packing.org website for Md and compared it to the Md state police website and I think I found something different between the two. If you are a retired cop the packing.org site said that you have to show evidence of a threat to your life and the state police site says that just people who are not professionals (lawyers, doctors, etc.) have to provide evidence of a threat to their lives. Although I would trust packing.org more than my own study, I would double check what they say with the MDSP.

Md will almost never provide a CCW unless you own a buisiness and carry a lot of money, are a professional, a retired cop, a loca cop(railroad LEO, corrections officer, etc.), county deputy sherrif or county sherrif or a security guard.

If you are a regular Joe like me, they will only issue one if you have two or three witnesses on record saying that your life has been threatened.

The packing.org website also "implied" that you need a permit to wear bodie armour as well. Only convicted drug dealers need a permit to wear body armour.

Welcome to TFL from me as well.

P.S. If you see the part where it says the guy would travel with his gun only in the trunk, well, I never do since the law just says "empty while in an enclosed holster" and nothing about glove boxes and trunks.

[REDCELL]

good looking out. I figured that MD laws were going to be loaded with restrictions. I don't need to carry, but i like the security feeling. A local gun shop was advertising Floridas Carry permit. I said it was leagl in like 13 different states. I hear its going to be like the old west down there.

[novus collectus]

Redcell,
I think it is important to point out that there is a CCW movement in Md. When I went to the Silverado Gun show a few months ago, they were passing out flyers about the proposed legislation. I have been remiss about writing a letter to my rep. in Annapolis about changing the laws, but I did sign the petition. Kinda funny though that the guy who gave me the flyer was actually defending the Democrat politicians and thought that they could be convinced to have a pro gun ownership stance. Whether I am fooling myself or not, I share his hope.

[Hal]

I hear its going to be like the old west down there. That's nothing more than typical anti propaganda. The truth is that when Florida passed CCW, crime went way down.
"Old West"
"Blood in the streets"
"Bodies stacked like cordwood"
Those are the typical hysterical rantings of places like Brady, Violence policy center,,,etc.
It never happened. Not in Florida, not in any of the other states that enacted shall issue.
Next time someone tells you that,,,call BS and make them prove it.

[novus collectus]

Hal,
I would have sent a pm but I figured that this would be beneficial to all of us (expecially in Md).

Where can I access the figures on crime reduction and the figures on how often the gun is taken from the victim and used against them? (the facts in the same place, preferrably). One of my professors, in a discussion after class, stated that the majority of of people who used guns in self defense have them taken away and used aginst them and I didn't have figures on hand to disagree with her. This made me realise that when we take this legislation for making Md a "shall issue" state, I need some facts to argue with the MANY misled, but well meaning, Md citizens.

One fact that is never thought of by many in Md is that a good percent of crimes are prevented by the presence of a gun without a shooting occuring. Is this true and can I prove it with a study? One problem is the information from the NRA might be viewed by some as less than credible because it comes from an interst group and may have a stigma attached to it by some of those it is shown to. So if possible, any studies that were done independently as well would be good.

[Hal]

nc,
Far as I know there isn't any complied data....one way or the other.
Probably your best course of action w/the opinionated prof. is to drop the ball in her court and demand hard facts. Make her do the legwork/research and provide hard evidence complete with verifiable references.

For eg. A quote from Violence Policy Center claiming that most people have their guns taken away and used against them is not hard fact.
OTOH, if the FBI complied the figures, that could be substancial proof one way or the other.

If she objects or dismisses the idea,,press the issue. YOU'RE paying quite a bit of money for your education. You should be getting your money's worth. Opinions have little place in the context of a classroom. As a professor or teacher, it's her job to do nothing but present the facts and let the students form their own opinions. Even though the discussion took place "off the clock" for her, she's still by virtue of her "professor" status a voice of "authority".

[jehu]

Novus, Go to www.packing.org or do a search on concealled carry and get the facts to show this professor that in every state that shall issue has been enacted the crime rate has dropped. There is alot of very usefull info on this site and there is also a MD. shall issue site. Arm yourself with the facts and simply state them but don't argue. Challenge the professor to disprove her sopposed facts and you expose her for the propagandist she is!

[jehu]

The Md. site is www.marylandshallissue.org. Explain to her how guns are used to deter crime over two million times a year with out firing a shot most of the time, but this is never reported by the anti-gun media :barf: :mad: Good luck and keep up the fight,but stay cool.

[Trip20]

I'm from MD. Live in Wisconsin now. If MD gets their CCW law's reformed before WI gets their act together, I'm moving back home.

[novus collectus]

Sorry I should have mentioned that our coversations were on an informal nature and I have great respect for her. She is not a propagandist, rather she is quoting propagndists facts. She doesn't know that it is false or based on un-verified or made up facts. I have sympathy for her position since I was under the same impression as her just about 15 years ago and took it to be true when I saw it mentioned in the media back then(they obviously didn't vet their information). Since she is a history professor, she is not as disciplined in the scientific method and this is not her field of concentration anyway (proper use of phrases?). She is a victim of misconceptions just like I was and many of us in Md still are. She is actually positive towards gun ownership and her father used to take her shooting at a very young age.

Many of us in Md believe what we read in the Wash. Post, hear from our ministers, rabbi's and priests from the pulpit, see on T.V. when the Brady campaign speaks and from the many police chiefs (and their departments) that spout a hatred of personal gun ownership or that it is the guns that kill and not the criminals. It comes from so many sources that are not refuted loud enough or commonly enough in our (Md) society that it is taken as fact. The ONLY time I have been exposed to gun rights views in and disputing facts in Md, is the internet, national media, friends and gun shows in my state.

So many people stop listenning to gun rights activists and supporters in Md because of the confrontational manner, or their "view" that all gun owners are kooks and want to kill (humans or deer, take your pick). My goal is to approach them in a nonconfrontational manner (when they are not close minded), present them with facts and a logical debate. Being among the majority of Md'ers that is a Democrat, moderate liberal (my personal classification) and basically similar to them, I have a better chance of providing them with an alternate view that may change their minds without having them dismiss me as a single minded wacko (which is their common misconception of gun owners). (work from within :) ).

The best thing that has happened to Md gun rights is the election of a republican govenor. This has woken up (I hope) the democrats and made them wonder why they lost. I hope that they realise that it was for the RKBA more than anything else. This may influence their anti gun stance and if we combine this with a publicity campaign and have more democrat and republican gun owners come "out of the closet", then maybe we can have a pro gun (democrat being my preference) house and senate and change these laws that were based on misconceptions and innaccuracies.

If anyone has any alternate ideas of how to approach the issue , then we really need advice on how to get the state to change their laws and attitudes and to pass the "shall issue" legislation.

[novus collectus]

jehu,
I didn't see your link until after I posted and I haven't read it yet. But I would still like to hear some additional ideas of how to change the anti gun persona in Md.

[Duxman]

http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/framedex.html

This is an excellent website that has statistical information on how many Crimes have been prevented by Gun Owners.

There are also some good articles (click on links to the left) on how to dismiss the gun myth's the liberal media has been lying to us about.

Personally this is one of the reasons why I live in Virginia. We have great CC laws here. Hopefully Maryland will too one day. :p

[novus collectus]

Thanks jehu and Duxman. Those sites provide exactly some of what I need. :) :)

[jehu]

Novus, I forgot to tell you I am in Md. also, down near Ocean City, so I fight the same battle you do. Join the NRA! even if you don't agree with everything they do. :eek:

[novus collectus]

I am going to have to join just so I can get my membership at the local range. Although I do not agree with everything about the NRA's ideas, I see more that I agree with than I disagree.

[Unique 5.7]

Well said about the confrontational manner. We had a lot of problems in Ohio because of hidden agendas some gun rights folks were laying on people. And some pretty kooky ones at that. Badmouthing liberals, Democrats, Jews, blacks, and everybody else perceived to not be to the right of John Wayne and Bill O'Reilly imperils the goals of extending and promoting gun rights.

[Zekewolf]

Heh, heh, they don't call it MARYland for nothing! :D

[novus collectus]

It is not pronounced Maryland, it is pronounced Mer-i-lind by us merilindrs. :D

I had a disccusion today with someone about CCW in Md. He is an ex D.C. cop and he claims that all he needs (because of the bill Bush signed) is his dept. issue ID that says he is a retired LEO to carry CCW (and, not even a permit issued from any state). Is this true thru-out the country or is he just plain mistaken? I told him to double check on that. I would sure hate to see my friend go to jail because he has too much faith in his understanding of the new law and had a lack of info.

Since this is a new law, I figure that the websites that deal with CCW may not be up-to-date yet.

[Jim Keenan]

I honestly don't think CCW in MD has a chance. Even though the Governor is a Republican, the legislature is controlled by liberal Democrats. They are hoping to get back in with the next election and are already making plans for even more extreme gun laws. The Democratic party in MD (and almost everywhere else) is effectively a part of the Brady Campaign, and they all dance to the gun control tune.

BTW, when it looked like we had a chance to repeal the "handgun fingerprint" law, by a strange coincidence a viciously anti-gun Prince Georges Co. prosecutor got a conviction supposedly using the cartridge case data. True or false? I don't know, but I have no doubt that some officials will promote gun control any way they can, even to the extent of a little perjury.

Jim

[novus collectus]

I hope they don't change the ballistic fingerprint law. I plan on making a fortune selling snap on cartridge catchers and gun altering kits with instructions to the criminals. (heavy sarcasm used here, of course)

Just found the story on Washintonpost.com. Sadly, the story exists. Story was dayed April 2nd 2005. :(

[Trip20]

Walkin in an Ess'ix wunder lannnnn.

And it's Mer-lin, not Mer-i-lind. They don't pronounce the middle "i" or the "d" at the end!

[Hal]

nc,
Good advice from the above...

If your prof is neutral and open to the facts, then it's a good chance to score credibility points.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155663

Take a lesson from the above.
00 did a splendid job of presenting facts supporting his position and debunking a "big lie".

OTOH,,,, ;)

[novus collectus]

Thanks Hal,
The ironic thing is that I don't have time to study Double Naught's method since I have leave for class soon for the very same professor I would use the debunking method with.

P.S. Who started the 100 years war? French or the Brits? :)

[Struckin Fuggle]

Take a lesson from the above.
00 did a splendid job of presenting facts supporting his position and debunking a "big lie".

I read that entire thread. Very interesting and I enjoyed 00's and Mike Irwin's posts immensley. I take exception to the term "debunking", however. He merely placed the burden of proof back on your friend, for which there was little response as your friend had not given you the background for his opinion and was not here to present his case.

I agree with one of the posters in that the definition of "started" is a matter of opinion. As an example, one could make a very solid argument that France's backdoor and under the table dealings with Iraq and their subsequent selfish votes at the UN brought the US to declare a War that may have otherwise been completely avoided.

They had troops in 'Nam before the US and they participated in the US Civil War, etc. etc. Direct responsiblility and greasing the wheels are very different, of course. To say France had a hand in facilitating many of the Wars of the last 1000 years, in my unresearched opinion, is not as much of a stretch as was presented in that thread. Historically, they're a meddling and odiferous little people that find more trouble than they can fight their way out of.

Sorry for the sidebar, it's Hal's fault for linking ;). To put the train back on the tracks ... MD CCW laws suck hole! :mad: :( :barf:

[Pappy John]

One of the LAST places I'd go without a gun is Ballmor, Merlin. ;) Charm City :rolleyes:

Go O's!

[Struckin Fuggle]

I lived in Ballmor for 6 years. [shiver] :(

But it's gettin' better! :rolleyes:

Just don't go to San Antonio! :eek:

http://merlin41.homestead.com/files/99vs01ucr.gif


My bro-in-law is a LEO in Memphis ... methinks he's sleepin' in the car. :o

[beenthere]

Somebody here with literary braincells working better than mine should be able to help on the statistics thing. Who is the University of Chicago Prof. who published a couple of books debunking the gun control vs. crime argument. Really turned the corner on a lot of arguments.

[Trip20]

That big mustard colored bar under San Antonio makes me wanna yell GO MINUTEMEN GO!!!!!!!

[gb_in_ga]

San Anton': From what I understand of the place, that is largely due to mostly Hispanic Gang-Bangers shooting it out. For the most part, they are thinning their own herd. Sad, but it doesn't affect me for the most part and tends to skew the statistics. I personally like the place and wouldn't mind settling down in that area post-retirement, but have to keep in mind that there's certain parts of town you just don't go to.

[gb_in_ga]

On the statistics in general: Just how much of the improvement in those areas is due to gun control, and how much is due to effective anti-Gang law enforcement? I suspect that the latter is much more significant.

[Struckin Fuggle]

When crime goes up ... everyone points a finger and spins it to tout their agenda. :rolleyes:

When crime goes down ... everyone takes credit and spins it to tout their agenda. :rolleyes:

The spin doctors make it almost impossible to believe any stats and it takes significant research just to differentiate white from black.

Case in point, Baltimore Mayor (http://www.ci.baltimore.md.us/news/crime/crime.html)

[Trip20]

God I miss crabs... And ain't da beer cold hun?

[gb_in_ga]

Crabs? Why not head for the Gulf Coast? There, you can get crabs and still avoid the MD gunaphobes. Same crabs, they ship them from Galveston Bay to Baltimore, so what's to lose?

[novus collectus]

OOOhhhh boy are you wrong. Chesapeake Bay blue crabs may be the same species but any of them that come further South of the Carolinas are stringy and sandy (that is not my opinion, that is gospel my friend :D ). Chesapeake crabs are the best and that is one of the few reasons I haven't had the strong desire to move to a better gun lawed state.

Now, I like snow crabs too (not as much as MD blue crab) so maybe I should try living in Alaska where the gun laws are much better (or so I've heard).



Back to topic. Maybe Md should start with an open carry law like Va has. Is it possible that the criminals would shy away from a criminal act if they !know! someone is carrying, and, also might be a cop as far as they know? (forgive my ignorance, but in Md we have no experience with such a subject)

[gb_in_ga]

"OOOhhhh boy are you wrong."

Nope, 'fraid not. Same crab, same thing. They ship surplus crabs from Galveston Bay to Baltimore and the natives there are none the wiser. Blue crabs are blue crabs. IIRC that little air freight route was a big reason that Fedex got off the ground. Personally, I'm not all that fond of them. Not that they don't taste good 'cause they do, but they are just too much hassle to pick open -- seems like a good way to starve slowly. Personally, I go the shrimp/fish route.

About the open carry thing: I sure wish that GA would do the same thing. Here, there's CCW but no open carry except for certain limited exceptions.

[Struckin Fuggle]

I ain't sayin' they don't ship crabs from Galveston to Maryland so can't argue with that, but I grew up in Houston and spent the better part of my youth in Galveston and I can tell you, Gulf crabs and Chesapeake crabs are night and day.

Same species, ok, but taste worlds apart. :D

To stay on topic ... MD CCW laws suck hole! :mad:

[Trip20]

They do taste different. They're both good, but the ones from the Bay and it's tributaries are much sweeter.

Besides, I could crab right from my pier. Now that's fresh.

(edited to stay on topic): Marylands CCW laws are phooey.

[gb_in_ga]

I grew up on the shores of Clear Lake, right off of Galveston Bay. We had a neighborhood pier and boat launch, and I used to fish and crab there whenever I wanted to as a kid (and shrimp, too, technically illegal -- 11th Commandment ;)). Never been to Baltimore so I haven't tasted their crabs, and I never want to go, partly because of all of the gunaphobes and other Lefties up thataway (thus, I keep it on topic :)).

[novus collectus]

Nope, 'fraid not. Same crab, same thing. They ship surplus crabs from Galveston Bay to Baltimore and the natives there are none the wiser.

We sure are the wiser. Whenever we get those crabs we say that they suck. We may not know where they come from but they never taste like the ones that are fresh and that we know were caught the day before in the bay(or the same day). Even Delaware Bay crabs are ten times better than Gulf Coast Blue crabs. Ever heard the old song that said "All I want [in Texas] is some Md crabs for Christmas (or something like that)"? A few Texans have even told me that our crabs are better by a !!huge!! margin.


Quote "MD CCW laws suck..." +1 ;)

[Spot77]

Remember - crabs are bottom feeders so there likely will be a slight difference in the way they taste due to the regional diets they consume.

Personally, I like the high Mercury and lead taste in my Maryland crabs!

And ain't da beer cold hun?

You do know he just died, right?

As for MD ccw, I visited EVERY member of the House Judiciary Commitee many times this past session. There was a surprisingly high number of Democrats willing to support HB1211 (MD Citizens' Protection Act of 2005) introduced by Delegate Don Dwyer, R- Glen Burnie.

Don is a GOOD man, a solid and aggressive defender of gun rights, and he NEEDS to be re-elected next year.

[novus collectus]

Remember - crabs are bottom feeders so there likely will be a slight difference in the way they taste due to the regional diets they consume. Personally, I like the high Mercury and lead taste in my Maryland crabs!
Only the ones caught at the mouth of the Patapsco IMO. I'd rather eat those than polluted ones caught anywhere near Gavelston Tex. though. The reason Md crabs are so meaty and sweet is that the Ches. Bay is so full of plankton and all the life that eats plankton (that is why the water looks like watered down pea soup)

As I said earlier in this thread, the guy who handed me the flyer in support of the bill was a serious democrat. Do you know what the status of the bill is?

I remmber watching MPT (ch 26 I think) when they had a rebroadcast of the committee hearing dealing with the Md AWB. I can't remember if it was the Senate or the House of Delegates, but I do remember that it was full of drama.

Who is that guy that represents Balt. that is for banning all guns? He is the guy it seems that we have to fight the most.

[1BadF350]

The only good thing about Maryland is the crabs.
The rest of it "Sucks hole!!!" Unless you like paying taxes. If MD could find a way to tax us on our taxes the sure as heck would. Montgomery County is the worst. To top it all off Doug Duncan wants to run for Governor. I'd pi$$ on him.

Oh yeah to keep on topic...guns, guns, guns, bang, bang.

[novus collectus]

gunaphobes and other Lefties up thataway
I just thought of what you said (a few days ago,. Boy! am I quick). The majority of gunaphobes are people that have never seen a gun, used one and get everything they see from the movies (and anti's). If there was a way to get more Marylanders to get acquainted with guns, then they would know how fun it is and how important for personal safety it is to own a gun. Every time at school I mention guns I get a reaction that I am a kook or warped, but when I start talking about how much fun it is at the range, they get interested. This is where the NRA and I agree that we should have younger exposier to the sport in Md to help alter the common gunaphobe persona.

1Badf350,
What about O.C.? And what about fishing on the Bay?
As far as taxes, a guy I had worked with used to live in both Va and Md at one time and he added all the taxes up. He pointed out that the taxes came out to be about the same (Va taxes ther number of T.V.s people have and Md doesn't). He didn't live in Mont. Co. though :o . Try living in A.A. Co. where they have even lower taxes (or so I hear) and less crime than P.G. (outside of Annapolis) (Man! I use a lot of qualifiers and disclaimer, don't I?)

[Trip20]

I love Maryland and miss it very much... Even though politically Maryland and I don't get along.

Rockfish charter the week of July 11th (my b-day) when I'm home visiting family!

Great b-day treat huh?!!!

[Spot77]

Who is that guy that represents Balt. that is for banning all guns

In last year's Senate AWB hearing, it was Senator Ralph Hughes from Baltimore who basically said that every gunowner in MAryland was a racist swine who didn't care about the murdering of black babies with assault weapons.

In this year's House hearing, Chairman Vallario basically "bitchslapped" Delegate Neil Quinter (D- Howard County) when Quinter started crying about the number of pro gun people there to testify against his AWB bill, and that his bill should be moved up so that his paid lobbyists could stay to testify.

Quinter used to work for Feinstein - that should tell you a lot about him. In fact, Feinstein is a regular financial contributor to Quinter.

Essentially, no major gun bill, bad or good got voted on this year.

If MD could find a way to tax us on our taxes the sure as heck would.

Not sure if this is a MD thing or a federal thing, but I hope you know that you have to report your income tax return as "income" on the following year's tax forms.


The majority of gunaphobes are people that have never seen a gun, used one and get everything they see from the movies (and anti's).

EXACTLY. My in-laws are bunch of anti-gun sheep who honestly believe every lie they're told. My sister in law thought that the AWB banned machine guns. She said she has no problem with any semi-autos, but she "supported" the ban because of what she was told.

I took my brotherin law to the range a few months ago. He'd never even SEEN areal gun before. Three weeks later, he, a professor at the most liberal school in the most liberal county in the state, bought a Taurus 38. How's that for progress?

[1BadF350]

Spot77, I have my taxes done professionally every year and my accountant has never mentioned anything about reporting my income tax refund from the previous year? I'll have to ask him.

Novus, I'll always treasure the Chesapeake Bay. Many fond memories as a kid growing up in Edgewater on the South River. Many late afternoons spent trolling the Eastern bay edge between Bloody Point Light and Thomas Point Light for rockfish and bluefish. I now spend alot of time around Solomons Island, Point Lookout, and Point No Point since my dad moved just north of St. Mary's City several years ago.

I haven't been to Ocean City in years due to it's rapid decline into a getto-wannabe-gangsta-trashy-resort town. I now prefer the Outer Banks N.C. I hear OC is starting to clean up though.

[Trip20]

OC was already turning into a ghetto gang banging hell hole when I left MD a little over 8 yrs ago.

Sad to know it's gotten worse, but you say it's getting better... The boardwalk looks like downtown Baltimore when you get towards the named streets by the inlet.

1BadF350, you do not have to report your last years tax return as income...... that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. It's a tax... RETURN. They taxed you too much on your actual INCOME... why then would you have to be taxed again on this money that they have taken from you in error? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[NovaSS]

Merlin crabs are the best , but only if they are from the eastern shore side of the bay


Nova SS
DelMarVa !!!!

[Hal]

A State tax refund, returned as an overpayment, can indeed be considered income if it was deducted on a federal return.
(Grossly simplified example)
You owed $500 in state tax.
You had $600 withheld.
You claim $600 on you federal form.
You get a $100 refund from the state.
Next tax year you have to include that $100 refund as "income" on your federal return.

*Refer to line 10 of the 1040.

"10 Taxable refunds, credits, or offsets of state and local income taxes (see page 20)"

You have to itemize though.

Oh yeah,,taxes liability chewed up some of my King Crab (oh yeah baby,,them's crabs!!!,,not those little blue devils) money and ammo (<-- gun related) money.

[jtkwon]

I got tired of the gun laws in Maryland, and moved to Virginia.

I have never looked back. And I carry all the time now.

[Trip20]

If I move back to the east coast,... I won't be moving back to Maryland. I'll be doing what you've done jtkwon.