Al Qaeda Shootin Up The Shopping Mall

[Wildalaska]

Now we all know of course that when the Al Qaeda boys start spraying in the shopping mall we are gonna take cover and take em out with our trusty Taurus with 5 mags and a surefire light, or even run to the car and get the SKS out of the trunk and engage em long range....

But walter Mitty aside, if you are like me, you avoid malls on gneral principle.

On the other hand, your wife, and just as important, your TEENAGERS, dont.

So what have you done to prepare them...other than fantasing about goin one on one with the nasties with your CCW have you given any real thought to the problem?

Have you walked with your teenage daughter through the mall and made sure she knew the escape routes? Explained how to take cover? Run through possible scenarios? Drilled them...

Now up in Alaska, theres a remote chance of Obamas attacking...but how bout down in Virginia...or NY..or PA? Think it cant happen?

I know its sad that we have to live life that way..on the other hand Im old enough to remmber air raid drills in elementary school, although how kneeling with your head against the wall would help save a life when a MIRV popped is beyond me....

WildserioussubjectAlaska

[dasmi]

if you are like me, you avoid malls on gneral principle.

Damn right. I hate malls with every fiber of my being.

[BatmanX]

I notice that the older I get the more intolerant of large groups I become.
My better half likes the malls, but she protects herself through the correct means. ;)

[CyberSEAL]

The problem is that in reality, your loved ones are every bit as likely to run into a nightmare scenario at the mall, as they are at Denny's. Definitely a good idea to talk to your family and explain to them the importance of remaining calm, level-headed and to occassionally think these scenarios out in their head.

[stevelyn]

I notice the older I get, the more intolerant of large groups I become.

You too? I thought maybe it was only me that felt that way.
Phew! That's a relief......... I'm only getting old, not mentally ill. :D

[spacemanspiff]

reason #492 why i am single and do not risk having any offspring.

[Duxman]

WA - have you been watching too many re-runs of Chuck Norris in Invasion USA?

Personally I like malls - lots of eye candy.....

[Limeyfellow]

More likely to run into white extremists and other domestic terrorists in a mall than al qeada anyway. We stopped 160 of there attacks from groups like the KKK and other neonazi groups including plans to use cynanide to kill off everyone in a mall and other attacks on big cities, so those are the ones you really need to look for.

If they are using gunfire it more likely to be ****** off kids who were smacked around by parents and bullied by kids at school though.

[9mm1033]

LE made an arrest of a single terrorist who was planning to bomb a large popular mall here in middle America, Columbus, Ohio. Not Los Angeles, New York or Philly, but in the heartland. Personally, I say screw Mr. Al Qaeda and his band of rag-head followers. I go where and when I want. If it happens...hit the deck. Dust yourself off and continue on.

[BatmanX]

You too? I thought maybe it was only me that felt that way.

Nope, there are a surprising number of people I have met that are very similar. I think it is my intolerance of the TYPE of people, and not really people in general. It seems as the years go on, people are less respectful of others in public, and it makes my blood pressure rise - and I haven't even hit 30 yet!!!!

Prime example: The Mall of America in Bloomington Minnesota. I can't be in there more than 60 minutes without wanting to verbally reprimand people for the way they act and the attitude of their children in regards to others around them.

/I digress.

[Shoebox]

This is my first post to TFL on this type of topic, but I am responding because this is something I think about quite often. Maybe more than I should, but the last few years have forced us to consider things that in the past that would have sounded crazy.

We live minutes from one of the largest malls in New England, a real shopping Mecca. (bad pun intended). Two levels of upscale shopping with four huge anchor stores. My wife loves the mall, and loves to go with our 3 1/2 year old girl. They don't live there by any stretch of the imagination. We believe in good old fashioned outdoor fun, but there is a time and a place for what my wife calls "retail therapy".

I am not paranoid. I am a realist. And I am very worried about Bad Things happening at a major American Mall. Since 9/11 I have discussed with my wife about limiting her trips to the mall around the holidays, and she has been good about it. As recently as last month we discussed her plans if something like an active shooting began at the mall. Such as not nessecarily running in the complete opposite direction from a shooter, which may lead to other shooters waiting to corral the fleeing public. We have talked about lateral exits and the careful use of the mall's back corridors, along with other things.

I do not go to the mall without a sidearm. I'm no Mall Ninja, but I will not set foot in that place unarmed. And when I'm there I'm usually not enjoying myself much. I worked my way through college as a security guard/special police officer at one of the largest indoor/outdoor mall tourist attractions in the northeast. I've dealt with every manner of protestor, nutjob, and criminal you can imagine. As a result I spend most of my time in public places just watching those around us. I resent that this is what its come to, but its the cards that we've all been dealt.

Lets face it, most of us are not tactical operators. Despite my background in criminal justice and private security I have no illusions about my abilities. Claiming that we know what we would do if a shooting scenario unfolded around us is fantasy. Every situation is different. My primary concern is my wife and little girl. I wish it were practical to just say "no more mall", but it just isn't realistic.

So no, I don't have a plan, per se, but I am glad to see this topic being discussed here.

Steve

[jacobtowne]

Steve:
Well said.

JT (fellow Bay Stater)

[HighVelocity]

My wife and son and I have discussed this scenario quite a few times.
If we or they are in an enclosed public place, mall, restaurant, or whatever:

1) Identify location of nearest exit at all times.
2) If seated, sit near an emergency exit or the kitchen (back door access)
3) When in the mall or other large shopping complex pay attention to the sights and sounds around you at all times. Odds are if you hear yelling or see someone running, there's a problem.
4) If we, they or I am/are threatened with imminent harm, do not hesitate to eliminate the threat by whatever means necessary.

We've also talked about pulling fire alarms if they are accessible.

[115grfmj]

Heres how it goes: I put on a shoulder length black wig, paint on black
eyelashes, black lipstick (Yes I'm a Guy, just roll with it for a minute)
next I put one of those fake septum rings in my nose and attach it
to my fake earring with a chain. Then I put on ripped up black jeans, a
black shirt (preferably with NIN on it), Ox blood colored Doc. Martins,
and either a black flight jacket or a black duster. As the icing on the
cake I powder my face white. Strap a guitar case on my back, and look
profoundly depressed. I now look so much like the ubiquitous goth teens
that I'm practically invisible. :barf:

When Osama (or Obama, WA whatever your threat) showes up
an opens up on the terrified mall goers, I simply seek cover remove
my 1894c, and my british campaign hat from my guitar case, whip off
my wig replace it with said hat, and line up the first unlucky terrorist
through my 1894c's williams site.

Yeah......I hate malls too. ;)

[jrpeterman]

I wouldn't classify Al-Qeada's tactics in the U.S. to revolve around the classic stereotype of a rampage shooter. All of the Al-Queada attacks on U.S. soil that I can recall involved using major explosions to create massive fear and chaos. This does not say that large shopping malls could not be Al-Qeada targets, but if a rampage shooting occurred at a mall, I would highly doubt that the shooter would be linked to Al-Qeada. Plenty of other nuts out there that would fill the bill. Best to always be alert and prepared.

[dasmi]

I notice the older I get, the more intolerant of large groups I become.
I'm 23, and I'm in the same boat as you. People are just plain rude these days, especially kids, and it only gets worse when you get a big group. I prefer to interact with my select group of friends, and avoid large social settings.

[CarbineCaleb]

We stopped 160 of there attacks from groups like the KKK and other neonazi groups including plans to use cynanide to kill off everyone in a mall

I would like to see some experimentation with government sanctioned hunting seasons for KKK and NeoNazis - maybe a 2 week black powder season in spring, 2 week bow season in midsummer (no bag limit), and, for the little tykes, a slingshot season from Thanksgiving to Christmas. Would thin out the lowliest of varmints and help to beautify the country.

[Wyo Cowboy]

Didn't Tom Clancy cover this situation in "Teeth of the Tiger"?

[grimjaw]

I used to think I was paranoid and claustraphobic, then I started reading the gun forums.

But I agree, I hate crowds, and I'm usually in and out of malls as quickly as possible. It was too crowded for me in Sioux Falls, SOUTH DAKOTA, today. I'm even avoiding the Cabelas down the street, gods forbid.

jmm

[smince]

Didn't Tom Clancy cover this situation in "Teeth of the Tiger"?

Yes, and very effectively, I might add. (I was going to mention this book, but you beat me to it.) :)

[The Rabbi]

Jrpeterman, thanks for the dose of reality.

Muslim terrorists do not whip out AKs and blast people indiscriminately. They wear belts with explosives and blow themselves up in crowds. Shootings risk capture which risks exposing the organization. If an al Qaeda guys blows himself up the best plan in the universe will not save you from that. Be aware of exits and use them, yes. In Israel the tactic is for one guy to blow himself up and then when the crowd gathers to assess damage the second guy "goes ballistic."

[Randy in Arizona]

Shoebox/Steve,

Welcome to The Firing Line!

I worked as an armored car messenger/driver/guard for long enough to get to the point I hate crowds!

I like people watching & enjoy eyecandy, but DO NOT like being in a mass of people.

So, don't feel paranoid, just determine if you are paranoid enough!
Non clinical paranoia is the sum of your experience trying to tell you something ain't right!

Watch over your wife and child and do your best to train them to watch out for themselves.

[lee n. field]

But walter Mitty aside, if you are like me, you avoid malls on gneral principle.

I can walk from end to end of your average mall and not find one thing I want to buy. Not one. Not even in the bookstores.

Of course, there are no gun shops in malls. :)

I notice that the older I get the more intolerant of large groups I become.

Me too.

[Mannlicher]

I don't mind the mall. Scenery is nice to look at, and I like a bargain too. I always go prepared for what might transpire, I keep the old situational awarness ramped up, and its also the best way to protect my wife. She is going with me or without me, so I might as well be there.

[axslingerW]

I'll just trust the MALL NINJA to watch my six!

[bdc]

The original question was:

Have you walked with your teenage daughter through the mall and made sure she knew the escape routes? Explained how to take cover? Run through possible scenarios? Drilled them...

When you go off from the question onto a tangent about not liking malls, then you miss the question.

I don't have a daughter. I had a son. My son was licensed as a ham radio operator and had his portable gear and survival supplies locked in the principal's office when he was in elementary school in LAUSD.

When the riots came, he was drilled by me in advance as to what to do in case of riot when he was in school and followed those common sense directions and not the last minute thoughts of the Vice Principal when school was shut down in a riot.

The lack of awareness is apparent in malls and not confined to the same.

One day, I came out of a stalking exercise with a sniper scout school class and went that evening to a mall with a girlfriend. The lack of awareness on the part of security and the patrons was clear.

By the way, if Wildalaska thought it through, he would not take out his Taurus and engage. The appropriate response is to take cover (or concealment if cover is not available) and then decide whether you want to shoot the BG in the back (most effective tactic) or to do the PACMAN routine fantasized by people on the internet.

[Matt19]

When you think about it, most people are sheep and they are in condition white, as Col. Cooper would say. They are complacent. The reality is, we all get that way from time to time. But there are many of us here who understand that the local mall would be a wonderful place to do something hideous. Therefore, we make contigency plans every time we go out to a public place. Others may laugh, but when you are caught that "one time", you'll never let it happen again.

[Hahnb]

When your son is taking portable surival gear to 4th grade you might as well just live in a dungeon if you're willing to let terrorists effect your life that much.

[Doc Hardball]

I'm with most of you that hate being in large crowds, too many people to keep track of. I am a naturally overly alert person, I have a tendency to "analyze" everyone around me. I don't consider it as being paranoid as it is something I have done for as long as I can remember. I just like knowing what the people around me are up to.

It also helps me notice more eye candy than the typical viewer. Maybe I'm just a voyeur and not paranoid? ;)

As for your scenario, not much you can do if a truck bomb comes flying through those big glass "Welcome to the Wonderful World of Capitalism" doors.

If a shooting rampage, most likely not a terrorist, just someone ****** off because daddy loved the bottle more than him. In that case, I would find cover and wait for a clear shot, and not hunt him down. Don't want the LEO's or Mall Ninja to confuse me with the BG.

[PythonGuy]

I'd consider it paranoid. :cool:

[DimitriS]

I'm with most of you that hate being in large crowds, too many people to keep track of. I am a naturally overly alert person, I have a tendency to "analyze" everyone around me. I don't consider it as being paranoid as it is something I have done for as long as I can remember. I just like knowing what the people around me are up to.

Thats not being paranoid or anything. ;) In a mall there are alot of people and knowing who and what is around you is a good thing. I over analyze everthing too and its helped me not get robbed a couple times. :) Plus there is alot of girls in malls thats always a plus when your single and looking for a girl thats your type to ask out. :cool:

As for the book "Teeth of a Tiger" by Tom Clancy its a pretty interesting book make a good read in a long car trip :)

Dimitri

[cracked butt]

Of course, there are no gun shops in malls.

In one of the biggest malls in my state, there is a store called Scheels which is also probably the biggest gun shop in the entire state. The upside is that the store has its own entrance from the outside, so I can stop in there, and walk back out without having to go through the rest of the mall that I have no business in. :cool:

[swmike]

My biggest problem with my wife at the mall is getting her to spend money. She shops for hours there and leaves without buying. (yeah, that's a complaint???)

When she goes to the mall, I go along and so does my carry piece. I don't worry about OBL's guys, just the local "gangsta's". Been more incidents involving them than terrorists (or they the local chapter?). Recently moved (when I retired) from the Denver area. The Aurora Mall (Denver suburb) was the local parade ground for all the gangs of the area. Several shootings, one turned into a shootout, in the mall. So much for foreign terrorists (although is is rumored that several gang members were from a country that adjoins our southern border and their immigration status was questionable).

My military service has made me just paranoid enough to avoid groups, notice strange (or out of place) people, and to ratchet up the awareness when necessarily. Actually turned and stepped in front of someone getting ready to put his hand in my wifes purse during one trip. He looked like he was going to fill his pants and ran.

I refuse to be held hostage by the thought of terrorism. I will just make sure that I am aware of what is happening around me.

[Slateman]

Wild, come on. I've been there. There is no way in hell that Alaska has malls :D

Seriously though, my area of Northern VA has about 6 malls within a half hour or less (Tysons, Tysons II, Springfield, Landmark, Fair Oaks, and Potomac Mills)

I have gone over in my head what I might do if there was an incedent involving gunmen (robbery or terrorism). Quite simply, I'm not sure what I could do. Malls are big places with lots of places to hide. I'm not gonna go chasing down bad guys.

I would pretty much funnel as many people to safety as possible, call the police on my cell phone, and use my pistol only if I have to for defense, or I have a for sure kill shot. Even then, I would have to carefully double check that a bad guy didn't have a bead on me.

[X-RAY]

Can't believe I'm not the only one who is "uncomfortable " in the croweded malls. Too many nut jobs too close together !!
Last Febuary the wife and I went to the Kingston mall , in upstate N.Y. to
buy a valentines day gift for her. Got in early, found what we wanted, and left. When we got home about 45 min later ,the ariel photos from the news chopper showed,there in the same space I had been parked in ( :eek: ) was a Sheriffs car that was responding to the call they got for a "man with a gun" who was shotting up the place!!!!! It was plastered all over the news for the rest of the day. Just bumped up my awareness level from "uncomfortable" to "PARANOID".
Sidearm or not I still hate malls.

[Doug.38PR]

I usually don't visit malls that have a 30.06 posting (sign in Texas that owners put up that say you can't wear your gun :rolleyes: ) for just this reason. Katy Mills Mall in Katy (just west of Houston) has one. They get very little of my business.

Luby's cafeteria learned their lesson in Killeen, Texas about 15 years ago. :eek: Soon after that event I gather they removed their 30.06 sign. Now I eat there all the time and enjoy their Country Fried Steak with my OP on my hip. I'd rather not be a mall owners educational piece getting shot while unarmed.

I had a very long thread along these lines way back concerning if I had my gun and some islamic terrorists, crazy columbine kidz, or just some nutcase with a brain tumor came in and started "hosing people down." What if your bullet missed or went through the perpetrator and hit someone else...yikes!

on that point, try to make sure you have a clear shot if you can.

If your gun is in your car then the problem is likely to be over before you get back in there, plus you want to be extra careful not to get shot by a nervous mall guard or a policeman mistaking you for one of the bad guys.

Aside from that all I can say is happy hunting and be safe.

[SamD]

#1. They actually do have at least 1 mall in Anchorage, probably more by now.

#2. Vigilant persons have detected suicide bombers prior to their detonation, and armed persons have killed them preventing detonation.


Avoid paranoia. Take reasonable measures to drill your family in whatever you consider appropriate behavior. Be vigilant, if you detect trouble, take the appropriate action.

As for engaging evildoers, men are obligated to do so. Sheep may do as they please:barf. Avoid the company on sheep, mutton sucks:barf:.


Sam

[Langenator]

Now up in Alaska, theres a remote chance of Obamas attacking

Um...Osama's a terrorist. Obama's a US Senator from Illinois. Freudian slip, WA?

[Wildalaska]

:D

Y'all just think Im stupid huh :)

Wildcondi2008Alaska

[Boss Spearman]

There's nothing at any mall that I cannot order now through the 'net and just have shipped to my house. I haven't bought anything, clothing, shoes, etc from any mall in ages.