Is the "racking of a shotgun" sound...

[dave_in_delaware]

... really going to scare any intruder away that is hell-bent on robbing/killing you?

OK, I've read many posts mentioning that the racking noise of a shotgun will scare any would-be robber/thief/etc away... and that you probably wouldn't even have to have it loaded, just use the noise as a scare tactic. But how true is that, REALLY? Yeah, it would scare the **** out of me, but....

If someone comes prepared and/or is determined to break in and rob you, wouldn't they have a gun as well? What if they're on something and they feel invincible? And there you are: you rack your (unloaded) shotgun with the hopes of it scaring them, and all they do is pull a firearm on you instead. Now you're unarmed, gave away your position, and just ****** off an already ******-off someone who broke into your house. They shoot you dead, STILL take your stuff, AND they beat your head in w/ the butt of your unloaded shotgun, just to make a point.

For those who think this tactic would work, I assume that you're still armed w/ a handgun in case this scare tactic doesn't work, right?

Any thoughts on the shotgun noise tactic? I have a 12ga shotgun at home myself, but I'd keep it loaded if I'm using it for HD/SD. Thanks for any thoughts.

[The British Soldier]

We Brits use 12g Remington 870 Magnum shotguns to remove doors using Hatton rounds; in Ireland we had them with folding butts and magazine extensions on a 20" slug barrel. I was caught out by some local thugs just before we made entry into a house from the rear for a surprise search operation; my rifle was out of my hands on the sling across my chest but I had the Remington pointed at the deck ready to go. In line with rules of engagement I had an empty chamber, but when I saw them I raised the shotgun and pumped it.
It was night time and the air still; that noise of the action ratcheting back and forward is intimidating and the look of it made people look twice at it.
The shotgun is a good weapon to use inside your home because it will not go through the walls; No.6 shot is reckoned to be the minimum effective load. I would not advise threatening anyone with an empty weapon - what if they call your bluff? Have it fully loaded and have the Police on the way!

[zejs1]

Anyone who takes an unloaded weapon to a gunfight deserves to get shot.

[Evader1]

Dave, you scare me dude! :p
But seriously, I've had to "rack" my shotgun before. Few years back when I had moved into my house I heard something outside on the deck. Thought it was just a raccoon or something till I heard it again. Well I woke up and looked down on the deck and saw someone stalking around at the back door dressed in dark clothes with a black hoodie on. Just saw the person, not the face. Well I took my Mossberg 500, racked that sucker with a round of 00 buck. Needless to say it scared the sh** out of the guy. He froze as I looked down, he then jumped the deck and ran. Far as I know, never had a problem since or seen anyone. Now if he was already in the house, screw the racking sound. Call the cops and wait at the top of the stairs in cover with a loaded gun!

[almark]

I think it's a fair compromise to have an empty chamber, and hope that racking the shotgun scares the bg away, but you had better be prepared for the guy to call your bluff! Bringing an unloaded gun for SD is not a bright idea. You can have a full tube, empty chamber and rack the slide. If the sound scares the guy away, great! If it doesn't, you've got a loaded shotty ready to handle the situation. Going "all in" on a bluff when your life is on the line is a terrible idea.

[sm]

NO.

Now why would I want to give away any advantage I might have with an Intruder(s) in my home, or business by racking a slide on a shotgun?

I would not want to give myself away racking a semi- auto handgun, opening/ closing the cylinder on a Revolver, running a bolt on a rifle either.

I do not do such actions while hunting.

One is to be prepared , to try to NOT engage in a situation if at all possible. I do not get paid to do house clearings. I will take cover and have the Calvary on direct line. If intruder finds my cover - snick of safety on shotgun and fire.

I have done the Tueller Drill often , and with a Shotgun as well. Precious milliseconds are going to be wasted on racking a shotgun when the ms are best used to snick off the safety.


Tueller : 21 steps covered in 1.5 seconds.

Can you stop an immediate threat in 1.5 seconds? It does not take long to be injured, or dead.

[Denny Hansen]

Fourteen years in law enforcement was enough to show me that the sound will scare only a reasonable person.

The flip side of the coin, you probably won't need a shotgun for a reasonable person to begin with. Hardened street thugs have had weapons pointed at them (and actually shot) more than a few times. If you try and bluff one of these types, I hope your smooth bore is smooth both in and outside the barrel.

Denny

[Glenn E. Meyer]

It seems to me that is it legitimate to keep the shotgun unchambered for various safety reasons.

If you think you need the shotgun, you rack it as you pick it up, where you are. If the BG hears that and flees, all well and good.

I never understood if folks meant they were going to somehow confront the BG and make some kind of show about it.

[AAshooter]

Its all a continuum.

Many will not come to enter your house if it is well maintained.

Of those that proceed, many will not enter the house if everything is secure.

Of those that proceed, many will not enter your house if they think someone is home.

Of those that proceed, many will leave when they realize someone is home.

Of those that proceed, many will leave when you verbalize a command for them to leave.

Of those that proceed, many will leave when you warn them of having a firearm and will shoot.

Of those that proceed, many will leave when you load your shotgun.

Of those that proceed, many will leave when you point your shotgun at them.

Of those that proceed, you need a loaded shotgun.

So the bottom line, pick at which level you are comfortable. If you think racking a shotgun will take care of your problem, get a tape recorder. Otherwise, have it ready to go. It would be ashamed to get killed while you are loading your shotgun.

[Capt Charlie]

Actually, if you ask a professional burglar, they'll tell you that most don't go armed. Why? Because if they get caught, it adds time to their sentence. That's only the pro's, who look at it as a business. Home invasions by gang bangers, etc. are a whole different animal. They don't care, and they will shoot.

Racking a shotgun seems to be the one, universal warning. Several years ago we responded to a shots fired call in a parking lot late at night. When we arrived, gunsmoke was still literally hanging in the air, and there were four carloads of people all yelling at each other. Officers tried to separate them, but these people didn't listen, and continued yelling. I pulled the Remy 870 from my car, stepped up on a wall, and loudly racked a round home. You could'a heard a pin drop after that, and we got a lot of yessir's and nosir's :D . Like I said, the universal warning.

[sendec]

Add me to the "no" list. I recommend not chambering a round until reasonably certain that the weapon will be fired or if your reactionary hand is going to be occupied, say, trying to herd a kid. The chamber can easily be charged while bringing the gun into a firing position - there is no loss in time assuming you can do two things at once.

Once you've chambered a round the typical shotgun isnt drop-safe, and in a tussle the last thing you want is for the gun to fire if you cannot control the muzzle, nor do you want the hood to get it already armed.

The only evidence that it'll cause someone to back off is anecdotal and qualitative. Remember, bad guys arent known for their good decision making skills

[blackmind]

NO.

Now why would I want to give away any advantage I might have with an Intruder(s) in my home, or business by racking a slide on a shotgun?

You would if, like many people, you've been watching too much t.v. and movies and think that they are representing reality. Because it looks and sounds dramatic and tough.

Even though it's stupid and tactically incorrect.



-blackmind

[azspyder]

I just let the snick of the safety going off to terrify them :-) My 870 has one up the spout at all times.

[Wildalaska]

Stupid and tactically incorrect as it might be, I do it as do many stupid and tactically incorrect Police Departments

WildthatshowiwastaughtbyacopyearsagoAlaska

[CajunBass]

It would probably be ok, if the sound just before it had been a loud

BOOM!

CLACK-CLACK!

[Double Naught Spy]

+1 CajunBass!

[Lee Lapin]

"...stupid and tactically incorrect."

Ah, the Supreme Arbiter of All Things Tactical hath spoken 8^).

Guess I will have to settle for being stupid and tactically incorrect yet again, then (man, I hate when that happens). My house shotguns get stored in cruiser ready as I was taught it once upon a time many many years ago, which is to say magazine loaded and hammer down on a double-checked empty chamber, safety on. That is a one-more-step-for-safety's-sake option I choose to use with long guns around the house- the AR on its hidey-hole pegs has an empty chamber also. Handguns are all in Condition One, if that makes anyone feel better about my tactical insufficiencies.

I DO NOT rack the gun in order to try and intimidate anyone, I rack it to put a round in the previously empty chamber. That happens the instant I lay hands on the gun as I am moving to cover. Anyone who gets far enough to make me pick up a long gun has already dealt with two layers of fences and two dogs and I doubt they will give a rat about a little noise from a round being chambered.

YMMV, it's your house, your life, your choice. I have been doing it this way for decades now and only shift to Condition One for long guns at the point I have to carry one at the ready. If it's on the pegs it is in Condition Three, in my hands it's Condition One.

lpl/nc

[XavierBreath]

OK..........Time for a controlled study. I say we wire a public restroom for sound. First, on unsuspecting stall users we will play the sound of a toilet flushing. Next the sound of a dog barking. Finally we will play the sound of a shotgun chambering a round. We will measure toilet water displacement for results. This could be interesting. I wonder if we could get a federal grant to fund this? :D

[butch50]

Eureka!

[Mannlicher]

IMHO, the 'racking sound of a shotgun' just tells the opposition that you were not ready to dance. It also tells him what ya got, and where you are. You just blew your cover, and are now at a disadvantage.
Other's opinions may vary, (but they are wrong. :))

[Hollywood D]

I have a story about this too lol. When I was in college I was a criminal justice major and took lots of practical police courses. One class I took from a professor who used to be a cop in Memphis. Anyways, he tells this story one day about how he was sleeping and heard noises downstairs. He says "I reached over and felt my kid, reached over to the other side and felt a bride...then I grabbed my 12ga and wallked down stairs to see a guy holding my CD player. I racked on in my 12ga and the guy dropped the Cd player real fast."

[Denny Hansen]

This could be interesting. I wonder if we could get a federal grant to fund this?

Doing my best Larry the Cable Guy: I don't care who you are, that's funny!:D

Denny

[psycho nut]

It would scare me, *BUT* when you hear it done back, that would be worse.

[Dwight55]

Dave, . . . the answer to your question is a qualified "maybe" at very best.

Why take the chance, . . . is the question I would ask you.

First, . . . you put yourself at a tactical disadvantage in several ways: 1) you have given away any and all "surprize" effect, 2) you have given up your location, 3) you have one less round than if you had started with the chamber loaded also, 4) any serious bg has you made for a dufus, a newbie, or a John Wayne wannabe.

Secondly, . . . if you are serious in wanting to use the sound, . . . do it as a recording on a cassette tape, . . . also add verbal commands about bg's getting out of your house, . . . and have the speaker someplace that would not give away your position. Rig the recorder to play when you flip a remote switch or something.

Thirdly, . . . never, never, never give away your position or your resources until you fire that first shot, . . . and when you do, . . . make sure of your target, . . . and follow up quickly and decisively.

The winner of all gun fights is the one that got the baddest and deadliest the quickest. Everyone else comes in second.

May God bless,
Dwight

['75Scout]

I've got 7 rounds (1st 2 are 00 buck, last 5 are 1oz slugs) in the tube. The chamber is empty for saftey reasons b/c the saftey is off. The trigger has been pulled so all I have to do is rack the slide and I have it ready to fire. Racking the slide does allow for intimidation factor but I will have a round in the chamber ready to be fired if it is needed.

This setup will change once I have children in the house, but for now its how I do it.

[chrisandclauida2]

yes that sound makes grown men cower. i have been in a couple riots where the sound og a shot gun racking put 700 men on the ground. this said i woulnt run around with an empty shotgun.

[BlueTrain]

I gather from the general theme of this thread that a single or double barrelled shotgun is out of the running, as probably is an automatic.

It may have been covered in other threads no doubt, but I sometimes wonder if there is really any intimidation threat at all for some people who are having a gun aimed at them, other than a shotgun, perhaps. I am talking about a homeowner armed with a handgun confronting, well, anyone. Assuming the other person is a person with a little street experience, it might be that he is not at all intimidated by the sight of a gun pointed at him and he just might decide to take his chances with a homeowner who has had absolutely no such experiences behind him. Naturally a lot of other things enter into the situation and anyway, such situations are relatively uncommon. But in a confrontation between two people of different experiences, one being a little harder and rougher than the other and more than likely has been in more than a couple of fights, the whole point of the homeowner having a gun is to even up the match and tilt it a little in his way, if that is possible. The question is, does it?

[Derius_T]

Dave in Delaware Wrote:

And there you are: you rack your (unloaded) shotgun with the hopes of it scaring them, and all they do is pull a firearm on you instead. Now you're unarmed, gave away your position, and just ****** off an already ******-off someone who broke into your house. They shoot you dead, STILL take your stuff, AND they beat your head in w/ the butt of your unloaded shotgun, just to make a point.

I think you answered your own question bud. :D

And my only question is, why is it unloaded to begin with? Might as well be a huge, unwieldy club....:confused:

[sm]

Humm...

I knew I kept notes for a reason. :D

Semi-Autos: Teaching new shotgunners , often with a 1100 20 ga or Beretta A303 also in 20 ga- back in the day. First time the student hits the bolt release Whoa!many times followed by a expletive. :p

My SX1 being machined has a "distinct" closing. You get to a point if you shoot enough, or spend enough time on a range to be able to tell what semi-auto is shooting without looking, by the sound of bolt release.

I knew this being a Range Rat would pay off some day.

Lets see, following the Gimmee Greedy Gov't Guidlines:
Grants for:

-Closing Sounds Differentations b/t Pump,Semi, O/U, SxS ( spl catagory for
hammers on SXS) and Single Shots.
-Might as well do a sub study on Gauges...oh, oh, we cannot forget the 32 and 24 ga [ more money]
-Barometric Pressures and affect on Sound [ Sounds right smart don't it?]
-Synthetic vs Wood for sound suppression based on stock densities.
-Single Shots - Special study on their sounds A) open/ close , B)Hammer being pulled back, C) Ejectors ejecting.
-K80s getting a scratch
-Battery Operated Drills running cleaning rods with Scotchbrite to clean bores.
-Favorite expletives when nylon hammer misses tubes and thumbs hit.
-Identifying slugs from various guns based on Report
-Favorite expletives for 1) getting pinched on closing break open guns, 2)slicing finger on inside of 1100, 3)thumbs/ fingers caught in bolt closing. [NOT the same as Garand Thumb - that can be another grant...see how this works?] 4) Loading mag tubes.

Etc.

I have surmised this is going to take a LOT of time, and therefore requires a Really Big Grant. Gonna needs LOTs of Guns, Ammo, Range Time, and "variables" - how many many members on TFL now? [variables = members X ....whew doggie! Nawlins ain't got nothing on me. :p

[tlm225]

In my experience the sound of a pump racking a round into the chamber is an attention getter. Thus far all the thugs that I've drawn down on with my 870 have gotten very peaceful upon hearing the distinctive "slack-slack". I don't know if the next suspect will be brought into compliance so easily, each situation is unique. Having been on the receiving end of a suspect chambering a round on me (at 0430 in the morning) it got my attention but didn't cause either me or my partner to faint. You can put me down as one who generally believes in the intimidation value but backs that up with the willingness to use the 00 buck that is now in the chamber.

[625]

The only sound I would make is moving the safety to the fire position.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The core issue is not whether the sound scares someone, only if you make a deliberate show of it to intimidate an opponent.

If I were armed and facing you and your shotgun, I would shoot you while you are futzing around with it. In your house, assuming I'm not the 'all burglars are cowards' type, if I hear a big rack, I might leave or for the tactical advantage, I would fire a series of shots at the location of the rack. That might scare you.

So, is it a show? For the LEO, facing a dude, who probably doesn't have a gun out, is misbehaving in a nonlethal threat manner - sure rack away for the Clint Eastwoodiness of it.

As I said before, when you pick up the gun, you rack it and you should be behind cover if you are able. If it is heard then and has a positive effect - goody.

Otherwise, if I want sound effects - I'll play the 1812 Overture with cannons.

[RWK]

As Denny said earlier, it will likely scare REASONABLE individuals (and -- whether I am "reasonable” or not -- it would certainly give me pause).

When I was a very junior officer standing the OOD watch on an isolated, austere Aleutian island, I had a drunk Chief briefly point a loaded 12 gauge shotgun at me during domestic dispute (there was no 24/7 law enforcement -- the duty officer was the first responder). With assurance, I can tell you that was a VERY long twenty seconds until he decided that was a major error. A 12-gauge shotgun at close range should deter anyone with even minimum brains.

[Mike Irwin]

As I told someone years ago...

If your only plan is to rack your shotgun slide and hope that the person runs off, you need another plan.

[Wildalaska]

If your only plan is to rack your shotgun slide and hope that the person runs off, you need another plan.

Um...pull the trigger as the next step :)

WildthatwillgettheirattentionAlaska

[VirgilCaine]

I was walking up a stairwell with 3 other MP's to check on a domestic violence call. As we approached the apartment door we heard a shot gun slide rack. We all scattered, ducked, crawled, dove, jumped to what ever cover and concealment we could find and broke leather. As it turns out, the lady of the house threw some Mac & Cheese at her husband, and the sound we heard was the wringer on a mop bucket.

[swmike]

Dave in Delaware-

I was told a long time ago to never use a weapon as a threat- Be prepared to use it or don't have it at all. An empty weapon, even to the most ignorant, is useless. When it is time for combat, it's "Weapons Free" (round chambered and safety off). I'd sure hate to go down with an unloaded weapon or a bent trigger (because the safety was on).

[Mike Irwin]

"Um...pull the trigger as the next step"

You'd think so, wouldn't you...

However, this individual didn't even keep any shotgun ammo in the house.

He was depending on the sound to do the job for him.

I never quite got it through to him that that might not be much of a deterrent. He was quite wedded to the belief that an intruder would hear that sound and run like a frightened rabbit.

[Bobshouse]

We had just moved here from Seattle, a few days before Christmas, didn't have the money for a stay in the motel so we started apartment hunting right away. We were quite suprized to find almost all the apartments in the area were way out of our cost range, so we ended up moving to the "darkside" of town, im talking neighborhoods with razor wire and iron screen doors.

One night we wake up to someone messing with the doorhandle to the apartment, I reach over grab the shotgun, sneak up and look through the peephole in the door and see 2 guys trying to pick or unlock the door. I, in my best command voice..came out sounding something like Betty Boop...asked them what they wanted? They stepped back and started cussing asking *** did I want and kept trying to enter.

I did the ol'rack of the 12g pump right by the door, they did the ol keep picking the lock till we get it open...I went back to the kitchen area, a breakfast bar seperated the kitchen from the front room and called 911...told the operator of the situation and told her that I had informed them I was armed but they kept trying to enter. I stated, knowing that the 911 call waqs being taped, that if my front door comes open Im going to blast them out the door, because as far as I knew anyone who keeps trying to enter knowing the occupant is armed, is more than likely armed themselves? Right?

After a few minutes, sirens start blaring from all directions these guys leave and start walking down the sidewalk. The cops pull up and to my suprise, these guys start fighting with the cops! Finally they are restrained and taken away. The cop comes up to my door, all dissheveled, dirty and asks what happened, I told him they were just trying to mess with the lock...he asks if the kicked the door shouldered it, or anything else...guess he was trying to pile up charges as a payback for the fight...lol

But your right, the racking of a shotgun doesnt work everytime, certainly didnt in this case!

Bob

[Derius_T]

Just a quick thought.

Glenn wrote:

Otherwise, if I want sound effects - I'll play the 1812 Overture with cannons.

Uhhmm.....can I have a copy of THAT mp3? :D

[Bare Bones]

Once, in the far,far distant past, I was in a mess hall at Camp Lejune when the prisoners were brought in to a segregated area of the mess hall by prison chasers. This was an every meal occurance. Must have been four or five hundred in there eating at the time. One of the prisoners broke and bolted for the door (no idea where he thought he was going). A chaser stepped into the isle and racked that high brass 12 gauge through that Winchester. Suddenly you could hear a pin drop and all of the tables in that mess hall were empty & every one was on the deck, including the runner who was shaking like a dog trying to pass a razor blade. That sound carries over just about any sound.

Having said that, I subscribe to the theory that guns, like knives, should come as a suprise to the reciever....

[Capt Charlie]

Otherwise, if I want sound effects - I'll play the 1812 Overture with cannons.


Uhhmm.....can I have a copy of THAT mp3?
Get it on a Telarc CD. They recorded it where real cannons were used, digitally, at it's REAL volume! Careful though! (Warning is included with CD). I loaned mine to a friend, who blew the 14" woofers in his Advent tower speakers :eek: :D .

[TimRB]

"4) any serious bg has you made for a dufus, a newbie, or a John Wayne wannabe."

I would not want to face any of those guys, especially if he was holding a loaded shotgun.

Tim

[Dwight55]

Yeah, Tim, . . . you are right, . . . but just take it one more step. The guy breaking into an inhabited dwelling ain't right, . . . his elevator missed a few floors. If he's caught, . . . it's Sing Sing time.

Chances are the bg is either a pro who came looking for thousands of dollars of jewels (in my house he got the wrong address), . . . and he'll slip out when he hears the 870.

Or he is part of the other 99 percent that are split between crack heads, meth heads, just plain drunks, and other invertebrate knuckledraggers who either don't know what the sound is, . . . or won't let it bother them.

Anyone foolish enough to do that, . . . deserves the beating the bg gives em.

May God bless,
Dwight

[USP45usp]

What if they don't know what the sound of a Shotgun being racked sounds like?

Or they are tweakers who really don't hear, or care, about the racking of a shotgun. They are fixated on where they are going to get money/goods for their next fix because they are coming down.

No, I wouldn't just relay on the sound of the shotgun being chambered to scare the BG's/druggies away.

I mean, I guess that one could make that a part of their plan, hope that the sound causes the BG/druggie to run away and all is well but you have to have follow up plans, cause sometimes plan A just doesn't work.

Plan B, if you chose that as plan A should be the pulling of the trigger and then the sound of another shell being racked into the chamber. Plan C consists of repeating Plan B until Plan D can take affect, the calling of the lawyer.

Gangs are another problem in itself. Gang members believe that being shot, and then killing the shooter makes them better leaders, and it does give them a higher position in the ranks. And being shot and killed, makes them some sort of god that the other gang members then believe that they have to settle the matter, whether the person was just protecting themselves or not (law abiding), you killed their god (or if a low end, a brother/sister).

Believe it or not, even the bums around here have a "society" of brother/sisterhood going. I've found that I am on a "list" of the bum community because of how I dissed "one legged willy". It's also known by them that I am "protected" (long story, I've one foot in the "dark society" and one foot out. Thanks to my neighbor that died but he left word with his Brothers and he asked that my Uncle and I to be "protected". I will admit, this is strange to be able to view both sides of the fence).

Get a bum tweaked up enough, there is no telling how far they will go. Same with some of the Brotherhood that my neighbor belonged to. The sound of a shotgun will not even phaze them, unless it's the BOOM instead of the racking sound.

Wayne

[Derius_T]

I'll just say RACK AWAY!

and hope your loved ones are staying the night at grandma's house, and your life insurance is paid up....:rolleyes:

[Derius_T]

Capt. Carlie wrote:

Get it on a Telarc CD. They recorded it where real cannons were used, digitally, at it's REAL volume!

Any leads on where I could find one? Google told me nothing.....:(

[ted murphy]

I wouldn't count on the sound of a pump shotgun doing squat to a bad guy's Morale any more than i think shining a surefire into a BG's face will do much but make him madder.

If it does accomplish something, that's great- but i don't plan for it or count on it.

I do keep my shotgun cruiser ready but it is for reasons other than wanting to be cool while stoking it.

Ted

[Double Naught Spy]

It is sort of interesting to compare similar concepts and problems. A lot of people think laser sights, are so bad, like tracers and flashlights, because they give away one's position, but some think that racking a shotgun in the middle of the night so that you notify your home intruder that you are present, general location determined by the sound made, and that you are armed is a good idea.

I think they all have their place, but I would count on none to convince the bad guys to leave. Of course, tracers may help to convince the bad guys to leave, but at that point, you have opened fire.

[Charles S]

I just let the snick of the safety going off to terrify them :-) My 870 has one up the spout at all times.

I am not the police. If you are in my house I am not going to try to deter you, nor am I going to try to frighten you. I am going to stop you where you stand. The only warning you will have will be the light on the for end illuminating you to confirm you are a threat and a target, make to sure my background is clear, and then the snick of the safety going off. If you choose to stop immediately then I will let you. If you do not I will stop you.

Charles

[swmike]

Double Naught Spy

Don't forget, tracers work both ways. Besides, they might set the curtains on fire http://bestsmileys.com/shooting1/19.gif

[STAGE 2]

I'm beginning to wonder whether some are sleeping in their beds or are sitting in their Sealy Posturepedic foxholes waiting for "Charlie" to come through the wire.

Granted, any yahoo that would stand at the top of the stairs, shout "hey you" and then rack the slide for effect is probably long overdue for some kind of bodily injury.

That said however, in a dark 2 story house (home field advantage) where I have a bead on the welfare child who wants my flatscreen, jacking a round into the chamber from behind cover is probably the best of both worlds.

Depending on the size of the house, an intruder would be lucky to determine the general direction of where the sound of the gun was. I have surefires and such, but when defending my own house they are more of a hinderance than a help. I know where everything is, and what everyone in my family looks like at o'dark thirty in the morning. Shining some light all over the place is gonna give the bad guy a hell of alot better chance for a spin and shoot then me racking the slide.

Even if he does get lucky my index finger still moves faster than he can.

As for the sound itself... it seemed to get the attention of many a looter and pillager during the L.A. riots according to several agents I know. Based on my own personal experience, movie or not, its definiately a universal language, and people get real polite and seem to take instruction extremely well when that slide moves. Just my .02

[KREW3]

Ever heard of cruser safe? Here is an idea, flag down a local patrolman and ask him if he has a shell in the tube, and when he says no, tell him he is doing it wrong. Bwahahhahhahah!

[Matis]

About 20 years ago, after writing up his report (threat from tenant), the police officer was in the mood to visit and talk.

Told me about racking his shotgun. About 2am, in a mall parking lot, following up report of prowlers, he heard something deep in the lot, but couldn't see it.

Said he got the shotgun, racked it and ordered the perp to come out.

The perp came out with hands up, begging, "don't shoot, don't shoot."

He believed strongly in the intimidation factor of racking the shotgun.

***

About 10 years ago, I fell asleep reading in my recliner, in the living room near the front door. No one else in the house.

About 2:30am I'm awakened to the sound of banging on front door, accompanied by male voice, "open the door, open the door."

I'm shaken but I ask, "...do you need the police? Want me to call the police?"

"No!" But he keeps pounding and demanding I open the door.

Told him I wasn't opening any door and to get the hell off my property.

Didn't make a dent.

So I asked loudly so he could clearly hear, "Marcy, get the shotgun." Actually just me home, but I ran to the bedroom and came back with the 870, unloaded.

Said through the front door. "Get off my deck or I'll shoot you through the door."

And I racked the empty gun.

Didn't phase him at all -- he kept shouting for me to open the door.

So I said, "Marcy, call the police!" Loudly.

THAT phased him. He took off. And that was that.

Racking didn't scare him off; threat to call police did.

Go figure.


Yes, I know I did everything wrong, but that was 10 years ago and I wasn't yet spending my whole lifetime on gun boards. I know better, now.

My point is that the vaunted racking sound had no effect whatever on whoever the hell he was.

I calmed down and didn't bother to call the police.

Figured he was on something.


I might have been very wrong, but although shaken, the REAL alarm bells in my head had not gone off. Maybe something in his voice. I just wasn't scared enough to do any more than what I describe above.


Today, my 870 is fully loaded and chambered -- 8 shots. No little children in my house any more.


I no longer believe in racking the shotgun to scare off a perp.



matis

[Capt Charlie]

Sorry, I got sidetracked and forgot to post the link to Telarc's "War of 1812 Overture". Here it is... and don't forget about the volume! Really, really, big, KA-BOOMS! :eek: :D

http://www.telarc.com/gscripts/title.asp?gsku=0541

[stephen426]

You guys keep talking about tactical advantage and not giving away your position. How many of you guys are sound sleepers? How about you guys focus on a few more deterrents and then worry about blasting the intruder? I hate to admit that when I am dead tired, I could probably sleep through a tornado. A shotgun in my unconscious hands wouldn't do a bit of good.

First of all, I keep my house well lit and we have alarm stickers. I also have an 80 lb. akita who covers my whole back yard. They will set her off before they can set off my house alarm. My alarm has an instant on feature which we only set when everyone is home. Otherwise, we use the regular one which has a 15 second delay while beeping away. We have a solid door to the bedroom door which we keep locked (no kiddies to wake us up to chase off boogeymen yet). We live in a good area and the police respond pretty quick. Most burglers probably wouldn't stick around if it went off. If someone is determined enough to stick around even after the alarm goes off (we have cellular backup if the phone lines get cut) and attempts to get through the door, I should be in a somewhat conscious state to defend myself.

One other thing to consider is that most burglers want nothing to do with an occupied house. Why risk getting shot? Why not choose an unoccupied house where he will have more time to rummage for goodies? A shotgun won't do squat if you aren't home to use it. Alarms are not over-rated if there is decent police times in your area. Dogs are also great deterrents when you are not home. I am probably going to add some cameras around the house as an extra deterren. If someone is really out to get YOU, then nothing will stop them... Not a dog, not an alarm, not cameras, and more than likely, not the sound of a shotgun being racked. The only thing that will stop them is a big Kaboom from your shotgun!:eek: :D

[Lawyer Daggit]

I have never heard a Rattle Snake rattle- Snakes in Australia just go ahead and bite you- but I reckon the sound of a rattle snake rattling, the racking of a shotgun or the more subtle click of a hammer engaging are about the worlds spookiest sounds....

[Double Naught Spy]

swmike said,
Double Naught Spy

Don't forget, tracers work both ways. Besides, they might set the curtains on fire

Dude, I said that.

It is sort of interesting to compare similar concepts and problems. A lot of people think laser sights, are so bad, like tracers and flashlights, because they give away one's position,

stephen426 said,
One other thing to consider is that most burglers want nothing to do with an occupied house. Why risk getting shot? Why not choose an unoccupied house where he will have more time to rummage for goodies?

I think you missed the point. We are not talking about burglars who are burgling unoccupied homes, but those who make entry into occupied homes. What most burglars prefer to do does not apply here. What most prefer means nothing when you come into contact with one in your home.

You are correct in that most would prefer to avoid conflict and would like unprotected easy scores. Assuming your burglar has made entry into your home and knows people are at home when the burglar enters, that means the burglar is that much more of a threat to you and your family because he is willing to risk confrontation to get what you have.

What burlars prefer to do also means nothing when your intruder is there when you are because the intruder is not after valuables, but to commit some other crime such as rape, kidnapping, or murder - as stephen426 noted.

In the grand scheme and as the homeowner, you have no reason to waste time debating whether the intruder is there for valuables or for lives. The intruder's motives really don't matter. All that matters is that recognize the intruder is present in your home and that the intruder's presence is a threat to your life and the lives of your family members. As such, you need to take appropriate action.

I understand that a lethal response to intruders is not necessarily legal in all states, but then again, home invasion isn't legal in any.

[stephen426]

Double Naught Spy,

I know you are right that predators exist. rape, kidnapping, or murder It is hard not to grow complacent though. I just try not to make enemies and hope that all of my deterrents are enough to stave off a random attack.

My post was to intended to give others ideas for keeping a tactical advantage. I don't sit around my house with my shotgun slung over my shoulder and I doubt that many of us do. Being caught off guard is the worst tactical situation.

Don't get me wrong. If someone broke into my house, I would not hesitate to shoot. Debating as to whether racking a shotgun is pretty immaterial in my opinion. Some people feel uncomfortable with a shotgun ready to rock and roll. Maybe they have kids or maybe they are afraid of accidental discharges.

Besides, how much of a real tactical disadvantage is it if you rack a shotgun? If you are behind a closed door, it is difficult if not impossible for an intruder to locate you. Besides, you can move. The intruder should only have one way in and that should be through the door (unless you have multiple doors going into your room). You just have to train your shotgun at the door and go for cover (hopefully you have something in the pipe that will penetrate the door). If the intruder shoots through the door, what chance will he really have of hitting you unless he knows how your room is laid out and where you are most likely to be? You on the other hand just have blast him through the door. How likely is that in reality?

If you guys are talking about tactical advantages and disadvantages, what about moving for cover? Won't you make noise and give away your position? What about calling the cavalry for backup? Won't talking to the 911 operator give away your position and keep you from using that hand?

If you guys just want to argue an absurd point that makes little to no difference. Go right ahead. Personally, I think its better to concentrate on preventing these situations and give yourself every advantage by having enough time to react if they do occur!

[stratus]

You guys keep talking about tactical advantage and not giving away your position. How many of you guys are sound sleepers? How about you guys focus on a few more deterrents and then worry about blasting the intruder? I hate to admit that when I am dead tired, I could probably sleep through a tornado. A shotgun in my unconscious hands wouldn't do a bit of good.

Well, I'm only speaking for myself here but I am a very light sleeper. I'm sensitive to out-of-the-ordinary sounds, specifically, i.e. I can sleep through a rainstorm or gusts of wind, but if a branch falls outside, my eyes are snapping open. If someone kicks in my door or breaks my window, I'm definitely waking up, and I'm sure the adrenaline and fear that someone is in my apartment will be more than sufficient to shove me into a fully alert state. I guess it depends on the person, though.

[stratus]

Some people feel uncomfortable with a shotgun ready to rock and roll. Maybe they have kids or maybe they are afraid of accidental discharges.

Too true. I think it takes keeping a round chambered for a while and getting used to the idea. A shotgun or an autoloading pistol with one in the chamber is generally as safe as a wheelgun. What are the chances of accidental discharge (let alone hurting yourself due to an accidental discharge)? If you practice good gun safety, they're astronomically low, or even zero if you don't make any mistakes at all (and let's face it, gun safety is fairly straightforward).

Kids are another story. I don't have kids yet, so it's hard for me to advise on that issue.

[Holman]

The only reason I would be racking my shotgun is to put a round up in the chamber. If racking my shotgun makes a intruder leave then so be it. I would not want to be at home with a unloaded shotgun and a intruder who did not leave at the sound of my racking gun. Any intruder who does not leave when I put a round in the chamber of my shotgun will be going to meet the Creator for Judgement Day!

I do not keep a round in the chamber of my shotgun, but my 9MM has one in the pipe and ten in the clip at all times. ( I have two extra clips full and ready) :D

[gdeal]

Yeah, I am tired of people saying oh the racking sound bla bla bla. Salesman use that line and people new to guns use that line. I am new to guns but I have also read that doing that will give away your position. The only place I am going to rack an unloaded shotgun is at the shooting range before I get ready to take it back to the counter from where I rented it from.

[springmom]

I think I'll take cover before I post just to be safe :D :D :D

My CHL instructor (whom I know I probably refer to too often, but he's a 30+ year veteran of Texas law enforcement) specifically recommends this tactic. The idea is to get the bad guy away from you, with nobody hurt, if possible. I'm not hunting, I'm defending, and that's the difference here.

My instructor said that you have a shotgun, and you use that sound as a warning. You may even use a verbal warning. I don't know about you, but my little 1850 sq ft house isn't exactly going to be difficult to find me in, so "tactical advantage" and "giving away where I am" isn't a real big worry. If it's 3 am, where is the BG going to expect me to be? under the dining table? You rack it and warn him. If he leaves, hot dog. If he surrenders, wait for the cops and good riddance. IF he doesn't, and he keeps coming, he's dead.

Now in our house, reality would be something like this: alarm goes off. I hit panic switch on alarm button while husband gets shotgun. I have XD-40 and .380. Assuming BG comes in either front or back doors, he cannot possibly get past us to get to only son living at home (unless, of course, said son comes barreling out of his bedroom, ninja sword in hand....) One of us is in bedroom doorway; other goes across very short perpendicular hall and we're set to defend. One stands, one on the floor (probably me).

However, all of this is unnecessary because the BG will BREAK HIS NECK on all the s#&% on the floor that youngest son leaves out. Shoes, backpack, said, ninja sword, practice bamboo sword, vacuum cleaner that he ran and didn't put away....

There was a time when it would have been a skateboard. No longer. Our tactical junk defense is second to none. I may start a school.

Sorry. It's late and I got carried away there.

Seriously, the comment about "I don't do that hunting" disturbs me because we are not hunting in this scenario, we are trying to get out of it alive, and, frankly, with the BG alive too and in jail if he makes good decisions and either lays down without so much as a twitch while we wait for the cops, or else flees.

My highly overinflated $.02 worth.

Springmom

[rwilson452]

1st. This tactic does work I know it from personal observation.

2nd. As to giving away your position, Unless your trained to do it. ( I don't know of any "ner-do wells" that are trained at this sort of thing), I was was trained as a physical acoustical analyst for uncle. racking the slide will give a rough general direction but not enough to really locate you. I can assure you that Racking the shotgun will get you A first response from the BG of "OH S--T!!". The next though will be of flight or fight. By this time they will not be sure of where the sound came from. A command in a loud angry tone will either gain submission or flight. I will note that is this type of situation there are no absolutes. You could somehow be up against a highly skilled pro but would a highly skilled pro go to the risk and trouble if hitting your humble abode for small potatoes? I think not.

[Silent Trigger]

I've never had an intruder inside my house, but a few months back when I first moved into my town home condo, that has a layout (ironically) like a fortress, my wife's car was being broken into. Well I keep a Mossberg 500 underneath the bed with 4 in the tube at all times, (3) bird shot, (1) 00Buckshot. More Birdshot than Buck mainly because I don't want to mess up the real estate should it be needed indoors, and birdshot at the ranges you'd be talking about in the house is enough to blow a man clean in half anyhow, and messy to begin with.

Anyhow, I went to the second story, opened the window and merely racked a shell into the chamber. Man I tell you I've never seen 3 pukes run so fast in my life. If it were indoors I'd just rack it and send them to whatever GOD they believe in though as they have no business in my domicile. *Thus I guess it works sometimes.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Oh for God's sake. When you pick up the gun, you rack it - so you can shoot it. If the sound scares someone, it is a nice side effect.

It is not a 'tactic'.

You also train for the possible. Maybe most burglars are cowards compared to the heroes of the Internet. Some might be Platt or Matix, the DC Snipers or the North Hollywood bank robbers.

The only sensible plan for the home owner is to rack the gun immediately and not try to make a display of it from an exposed position.

This is really not rocket science. You don't make this sound as a warning. Duh - 30 year veteran of law enforcement doesn't drop tactical IQ points on you. Bah. I know lots of veterans and instructors - they don't advise racking as a warning.

Warnings are verbal, clear and from behind cover.

[Dragun]

i read once that in actual LE firefights, (memory not as good as it once was) that cops and bad guys using handguns, hit each other about equal and maybe the bad guys hit more. when the cop had a shotgun and the bad guys had handguns, the cop never got hit. like it's some kind of virtual shield almost. break out a shotty and folks start to scrambling.

my take on this: having a shotgun = very valuable. letting the bad guy know you have a shotgun = pricless.

[sendec]

"A shotgun...... with one in the chamber is generally as safe as a wheelgun."

Generally not true, with the possible exception of Mossbergs. Remington pattern guns and similar do not have a firing pin lock or any mechanism to lock the hammer and/or sear. They are not drop safe and may discharge if the is a round in the chamber and the gun is dropped or struck.

"Oh for God's sake. When you pick up the gun, you rack it"

Again, generally not true. The chamber is charged when the gun needs to be fired, not when it is picked up. There is plenty of time to rack the action while mounting the gun to a firing position.

Most of us will lay hands on the gun far, far more often than we will need to fire it. Prematurely chambering a round just provides more opportunity to a drop- or strike-induced unintentional discharge

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The unchambered debate is another one of long and useless repetitive posts. If you want to shoulder the gun and rack it at the same time - that is your decision.

Evaluate the risk of dropping it vs. the risk of needing to fire quickly and without worrying about screwing up the rack.

To each his own.

Folks should carry an unloaded musket and charge it while singing Yankee Doodle Dandy to the bad guys.