What is an Expert?

[DocFox]

After a discussion with a friend, I got to wondering.... what makes someone an expert? What qualifies someone to instruct? I am curious to see what each of the board members think, and whether you are or consider yourselves as experts or instructors.

[Trip20]

What qualifies someone to instruct?
Found here (http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/instructor.asp), this is how the NRA qualifies instructors:

To qualify as an NRA instructor, you must:

-Possess and demonstrate a solid background in firearm safety and shooting skills acquired through previous firearm training (such as completion of an NRA Basic Firearm Training Course) and/or previous shooting experience.

-Successfully complete the appropriate NRA instructor examination. Certified—90% or higher. Assistant—85% or higher. Apprentice—85% or higher

-Satisfactorily complete an NRA Instructor Training Course for the area of specialization you wish to teach (e.g., NRA Basic Shotgun Course), and receive the endorsement of the NRA Training Counselor conducting your training.

-Submit your application with appropriate certification fee. Membership in the National Rifle Association is strongly recommended.

This doesn't necessarily mean all NRA instructors are "experts".

"Expert" is going to be a little harder to define. It could be someone who always gets one hole groups? Or someone whos proficient in firearms history, mechanics...etc, etc...?

Sorry I think I posted this before your poll was set up.

[Pointer]

EXPERT

An EX...is a 'hasbeen'! :cool:

A SPURT... is a 'drip' under pressure :p

:D :D :D

[woodland]

I think you would need to define an expert in what? Marksmanship? Combat tacticts? Self defense? Fieldcraft? All of these would require different criteria to be "expert".

[Radiki]

An expert in my opinion is someone who has a long background in the subject they are supposed to be an expert in but knows he/she does not know everything and is willing to learn, discuss, debate and explore all possibilities to areas of the subject that he/she is both confident in and those he/she would like to learn more about while possesing a personal drive to better himself and those around on the subject without imposing personal opinions with out clarification.

[yorec]

An expert might have all of those things listed... Or none.
But probably at least one or more.
NONE of the items listed will make someone an expert in firearms in and of themselves, BUT someone with only one of those items might certainly qualify as an expert of sorts...

Clear as mud? :p

[ISP2605]

Other: Because the court and legislature said I was.

[Tripplethreat]

Pointer got it right. And having a Law Enforcement background does not necessarilly make one an expert.

[StormTrooper]

I'm not really sure. I think it might be somewhat subjective to a few things. I mean, there are specialist who are considered experts in thier fileds. Say a small arms specialist, a highly trained sniper, an automatic weapons specialist. all considered to be experts in thier craft. I think personally an expert should not only have great shooting prowess but also have equal skill in the knowledge of firearms, safety and operation. That to me might be an "expert". Now at the range, I get alot of informal but personal instruction from the range master who is an ex Army Ranger and now teaches courses at the range. At 100yrds he can split a standard size buisiness card in half on edge. The skill has been validated. He also knows alot about firearms, safety and operation. He has helped me in a number of ways including stance/posture, breathing, target acquisition etc. Is he an "expert". To me yes, and obviously he has had well thought professional training with countless hours devoted. That however is my perception of an expert, others may have other views on what expert is.

[HighValleyRanch]

They make me shoot in expert class at the bullseye matches so at least the NRA thinks I might be!:confused:
At least I have a card that says I am.


But....... that's a long ways from High Master!

[Blackwater OPS]

100yrds he can split a standard size buisiness card in half on edge. The skill has been validated
This would be difficult to the point of being beyond skill dependant, even with a top quality rifle. Most rifles I have shot can't shoot .01 MOA.

[Mannlicher]

So far as I know, there is no certification for "Gun Expert". There are a lot of guys that have set themselves up as experts, and maybe some are. Frankly, I have my doubts.
Some even advertise their "expertise"on firearms BBS.

[smince]

I don't know anyone who is an "expert".

I know several who are very good, and the uninitiated would think they were "experts".

However, they are still learning (a life-long activity) and consider themselves to be "serious students".

BEWARE of anyone who calls themselves an "expert".

[Capt Charlie]

Someone who knows one hellofa lot more than I do. :D

[CobrayCommando]

Even if it shoots .1 MOA or worse, if its a .40-.50 cal the margin of error is still dozens of times the thickness of the card.

[swmike]

Perhaps the only true "Experts" out there are the ones that have had to prove their skills and have survived. Everyone else is just a "Theoretical Expert".

For the purposes of this Poll, in my opinion, an expert is one who has training and experience in the field he is proclaimed to be an expert in. He/she should continually train and practice. An expert "Paper Puncher" may not due well in a tactical situation so more than "bullseye" training is necessary.

Whether Military or LEO is a good question. Both bring different skills to the arena. Different battlefields require different skills.

Something that has always bothered me is the opening question "What makes an Gun Expert". I question the qualifications of many of the "Certified Instructors" I have encountered. Too many are "Legends in their own minds".
I prefer to learn from those that have "Been there and Done that". It was their skill(s) that kept them alive and maybe I can learn enough of them to do the same for me if it ever becomes necessary.

Magazine writers and the like are not the ones I look to.

[Capt Charlie]

Even if it shoots .1 MOA or worse, if its a .40-.50 cal the margin of error is still dozens of times the thickness of the card.
+1. When I was going to UK, there was a "Daniel Boone" range just south of Lexington. Ranges and trails were set up for ax throwing, knives, and muzzle loader only. One of the stages along the trail was a double bit ax stuck in a tree. Clay pigeons were placed on both sides of the out facing blade. The object was to hit the ax edge and split the bullet, and break both clays. With a .50 cal. maxi ball, it was a whole lot easier than it looked. You only need to shave a tiny bit of bullet to do it, and it was a great way to impress your non-shooting friends! :D

[JohnKSa]

To be an expert, one should be trained, one must practice and one must have experience in the specific field that the person claims to be an expert. In addition, the person must have distinguished himself from the average member of his field.

You don't HAVE to have formal training but it helps.
You DO have to practice.
You DO have to have experience.
You MUST be GOOD.

[Powderman]

I can't really say. I've been called a few titles because of my absolute passion for firearms, ballistics, and all things related to shooting. Some people have even called me an expert; on that I'm not sure. I still have WAY too much to learn. :)

[StormTrooper]

"This would be difficult to the point of being beyond skill dependant, even with a top quality rifle. Most rifles I have shot can't shoot .01 MOA."


Well, I know I cant. Thats all that matters to me. But I think he aims for slightly off center. You cant' see that fine an edge dead on at 100trds I dont think. Maybe...

[mpi]

anyone more than 50 miles away from home.
mpi

[JohnKSa]

You don't need to to be an expert to cut a card with a bullet--you also don't need to shoot .01moa, and you don't even have to be able to see the card.

I have done this with a pistol at shorter ranges, and the key is to make a visible aiming point on the target backboard that is lined up with the card. It also helps (if you're using a pistol) to orient the card vertically.

You will also have to have a firearm/ammo/sight combo that is capable of shooting all its rounds into holes that touch each other at the range you intend to shoot if you want to make the shot every time.

BTW, I am NRA certified to teach basic safety courses in Home Firearm Safety, Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, and Personal Protection. I think I can say with some authority that being certified is not necessarily evidence of being an expert. And perhaps some will agree with me now that I have made this revelation! ;) :D

[clt46910]

An expert is someone that has much greater skills and knowledge then you do...

As you skills and knowledge increase you will find fewer and fewer experts....

[AAshooter]

Those on the President's 100 are experts. Those that pass the Handgun Combat Master test are experts. There are others that are defined by a variety of capabilities.

However, it is often hard to define what they are experts in.

[StormTrooper]

well, i was impressed, but i am also just trying to perfect my own abilities right now.

[sendec]

An expert is a person who has mastered the basics and can perform them consistently under pressure, on demand and independent of luck, fate or Karma. They can explain how they do something and why. An expert can evaluate new data and reach a conclusion on its value on its own merits. An expert can continually teach, and continually learns.

They also own and can tie a tie;)

[MCIWS]

Being this is a firearms discussion forum, I will say that just being part of law enforcement and/or military does NOT make one an expert. I can vouch first hand for this. Although, the few people I believe to be experts were indeed part of the military and/or law enforcement.

I guess credentials and experience would really come into play here. I voted “other,” but I think I should have voted for “training.” How would you classify someone a golf expert, or an expert on modern economics? I would go with their level of education and experience first and foremost.

[OBIWAN]

Two different animals...expert is pretty subjective...instructors are a different matter.

I have always liked the phrase..."sometimes a teacher...always a student"

The better teachers are always questioning the status quo....but not changing their approach merely to be "trendy"

Someone that considers themselves an "expert" probably has quite a bit to learn;)

[gunsmith1]

I guess an "expert" is paid for his opinion. Given that definition there are a lot of "experts" in gun magazines and running shooting schools that I wouldn't trust!

[Pointer]

An expert in anything, is born only of...

TIME and EXPERIENCE :rolleyes:

A real expert needs no validation from others (i.e. certification) unless it is required to officially instruct a course, or something. :barf:

An expert is confident... he/she simply knows his own own expertise. :D

[roy reali]

Some time ago, a study was done to see how people view themsleves as far as knowing things. They gave a bunch of folks a math test. The test went from easy arithmetic through calculus. After each person finished the test they were interviewed on how they felt they did. Some of the test takers were bragging on how easy the test was and that they aced it. Some of the subjects felt confident, but they had some lingering doubts about some of the math problems. They thought they did well, but were a bit nervous.

They then scored the tests. The people that bragged the most did the worse. The people that had cautious confidence did the best.

The point was, that many folks that brag and act like they know everything are actually hiding a lack of knowledge. People that are truly experts in a particular field are confident, but not obnoxious about their skills. I have found this to be the case in dealing with others. Generally, the more a person brags about stuff, the less I am impressed. I have more confidence in a Doctor that occasionally utters the words, "I am not sure," then any MD that doesn't feel they make mistakes.

[Sarge]

Expert: The village idiot, ten miles from home.

[Pointer]

;) nice!

[DocFox]

Ok gang, confession time. This thread was actually to prove a point to a friend (and we had $100 on the outcome, thanks for helping me win guys).

Now for the explanation (going to be a bit long, sorry)

I've only been on this forum for a short time, but had noticed certain people had very adamant and forceful OPINIONS. The people in question tended to present their points and opinions as if they were experts and others "just don't know what they're talking about". Frequently suggesting (or outright saying) "you're wrong" or "I know more, so listen to me" , never asking a question about opinions, never exploring concepts outside their own box. It was my belief that these would be the ones who would not post in this thread, and I have yet to see one of them do so.

I commend the ones who did post, it shows that you truly thought about it, and questioning the "why's and wherefore's" are what allow us to grow. Remember, Columbus was told he was wrong, and so were most innovators in every field. Even if you are 100% certain you are right, never stop wondeing if you could be wrong, never stop asking someone why they believe what they do. Even the greatest teacher can learn from the lowliest student, if the teacher keeps an open mind.

Forums like this are wonderous places to SHARE knowledge, the more we argue and the less we ask questions, the more the ones who really do know, the real experts, will stay quiet.

All that being said, instructors are a dime a dozen. Good teachers are rare, and are nothing more than life long students that know something we don't.

Experts, well, this is truly subjective. It depends on who you are compared to. Most of us are experts when compared to novices, and most experts are novices when compared to the "one percenters" (the top of the food chain so to speak). It's funny, the one percenters think of themselves as novices, what does that say about the self proclaimed "experts"?

[AAshooter]

Often the more you know, the more you realize you don't know.

As you peel the onion, you realize the layers are many and each layer can be vast. In fact, the journey is endless.

[pax]

An expert is a person who has mastered the basics and can perform them consistently under pressure, on demand and independent of luck, fate or Karma. They can explain how they do something and why. An expert can evaluate new data and reach a conclusion on its value on its own merits. An expert can continually teach, and continually learns.
I think that's the best definition in the thread.

Someone else commented that there's a difference between an instructor & an expert. That was my initial thought too, but after thinking about it longer it seems to me that there should not be such a difference -- especially if using Sendec's definition.

pax

[CabinJohn]

Let's not confuse being an "expert" with a being good instructor or teacher.

An expert is more knowledgeable than most others in a particular area, and so others view him/her as an expert.

A good instructor is almost always knowledgeable about the subject that they are teaching, but there is more to it than (only) knowledge and experience that will make them a good instructor, or teacher, or coach.

[dave_in_delaware]

Seems I'm a bit late on this post, but "expert" is defined as:

1 (obsolete) : EXPERIENCED
2 : having, involving, or displaying special skill or knowledge derived from training or experience
synonym see PROFICIENT

So, to me, for someone to be an expert, he/she has to have a special skill or knowledge about something (in this case, something gun-related), which comes from training and/or experience. They don't have to have skills and knowledge in everything related to guns, though, to be experts. They could specialize in some particular subject (gunsmithing, marksmanship, history of a manufacturer, etc). An expert can be specialized, focused on one thing.

As far as instructor qualifications, I would think that they should be experts in what they're going to teach. And they would have gotten this qualification by training to do it, or from many years of experience. You don't have to know everything about everything to be a teacher. You just have to know your subject matter and be able to convey it to your students so they understand.

I consider the sergeant at my range who showed me handgun rapid fire techniques to be an expert, but only at rapid fire w/ a handgun. He may know nothing about rifles. Unlikely for being in the Army, but it's just an example. For me, I guess you could call me an expert in using AutoCAD (from both training and 15 years experience), but there's still a lot of the program I don't know about.

Personally, I am neither an expert nor an instructor. I'm a willing student, thirsty for knowledge and improved skills. Technically, I'm probably still a novice, but I'm trying to get better. Practice, practice, and more practice.

[Hardtarget]

Definition of an expert...from my Dad.
X is an unknown quanity...
spurt...just a drip under pressure.
I quallify in both catagories. :D
Actually, I know just enough to know better than to make that claim. I just like to shoot.
Mark.