Fierce looking Shotgun

[expeditionx]

Check out this link. Its a 12 gauge. Dont know who the shooter is but his shotgun looks quite menacing.

[DAWGTRAXX]

looks like a Saiga, actually that's a Saiga 12, basically a 12 guage AK

[Petre]

Wow ...that IS one serious looking shotgun :cool:

[expeditionx]

Im glad they are now importing them again. I wish I would have bought one in 2004 when I saw one for $250 new in box. Getting one soon though.

[DAWGTRAXX]

saw a Saiga .410 shotgun at the funshow in Austin last weekend
300.00

[FirstFreedom]

'swhat I'm talkin' bout, soon.

[loosecannon]

a .410 isn't much of a shot gun.But I wouldn't mind having one in 12 guage.

[stratus]

I want this.

[OneInTheChamber]

a .410 isn't much of a shot gun

But with the light recoil in a high capacity, semi-auto platform it is a very viable HD weapon.

I think 28 gauge would be the perfect mix between quick follow up shots, higher capacity, and punch power.

[DBOUNCE1]

I say one a couple months ago used for like$300 i ithink it was in 12ga but the condition was pretty rough

[yorec]

The uniform doesn't look all to professional... And I don't think he's to ready to touch off a real shot, even a small gauge gas powered shotty shouldn't be rested against the bicep... Looks like a backyard "wanna-be" pic to me. But that's a real Saiga - kewl. :cool:

[cobain187]

I'd also add that the gun appears to have a 10 round mag


that would be a no-no to us lowly civilians :(

[expeditionx]

Quote I'd also add that the gun appears to have a 10 round mag
that would be a no-no to us lowly civilians

Could you explain which law exactly disallows the 10 round shotgun magazine.

If you meant on a shotgun made of 11 or more contendable 922 imported parts I would agree. But the one in the picture is converted to less than 11 parts. It has most likely been reduced from a standard 13 parts to 9 parts with out counting in the use of an American made magazine that reduces it further to 6 parts. This is apparent because of the non-saiga buttstock, pistol grip conversion that usually involves a U.S.A. made trigger group, and you can factor in that if it were a 10 round magazine there is no factory 10 rounders but there may be U.S.A made ones. It would be compliant in that aspect.

So I am curious how exactly it is a no no.

[cobain187]

I was partially mistaken.

Your right, on 922r compliance.



...however

ATF gets ****** at 10 round semi-auto 12 guage "in general".


i.e. street sweeper, striker 12 (became destructive devices)


If they got ****** enough, they might cut off saiga 12 for importation, since it wouldn't be a "sporting purpose". Or even force NFA registration.


History repeats itself ya know.

[expeditionx]

This subject has been beat to death at http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?act=idx

I personally called RAA the new importers last year and was told that as long as they dont import the 8 round russian mags the ATF promised to let them continue importing the Saiga shotguns. There is quite a few Team Saiga shotgun meetings that have members using the 8 round shotgun mags and soon many 10 round mags are about to circulate.
The real threat might be if someone developes drums for these shotguns.
With as many people that illegally extend their Benelli tube mags, I dont see why the ATF would care about Saiga 8 or 10 round mags on a 922 compliant gun. Hopefully, a Destructive Device ruling wont ever be declared on the Saiga shotguns.

[Widder]

Man, I'm mad I can't have one! I live in CA........:mad:

[ghettoestl]

why the hell would u want it?? its not too practical. its just big and ugly:barf: sorry im old fashioned

[expeditionx]

................................................................

[ghettoestl]

um yea and so what about bein a democrat. and so what if i think its ugly. when i say im old fashioned, i mean i want something that looks like an 870. when i say not practical i mean what in the hell are u using it for?? obviously ur lookin at that gun u are thinking military so u are also thinking self defense. 10 rounds??? are u that bad of a shot???? which god damn army is coming after u??? better get 3 or 4 of those and dont stop there put a couple howitzers on ur front lawn and an m1 abrams in ur driveway. o and your going to need air support! call mcdonnell douglas and order an f/a-18 hornet. i mean jesus ****ing christ what are u so afraid of???????? ill bet if u didnt have a gun in your house u would be so scared u wouldnt be able to sleep or even see straight. you'd be lookin out ur window with a flashlight and everything. so who are the creampuffs now?

[joab]

trying to discourage the ownership of a black-semiauto shotgun that would scare the creampuffs out of most liberal democrats.
Im just disgusted. I would look at it different if their wasnt a stacked bias of liberal charm with a knife wanting to backstab a gunowner that wants something most liberals would sell thair firstborn so that gunowners couldnt have. Doesnt sound like your old fashion, sounds like your riding the political tide that many in your state of IL do as lemmings do (off a cliff).
regular people dont need guns just us important law enforcement guys do, voting for a democrat that is anti-gun is good for the country, and no one needs a scary black gun like that one- its too likely to outgun us law enforcement guys.You got all that vitriol from a simple statement about the aesthetics and utility of the weapon
why the hell would u want it?? its not too practical. its just big and ugly sorry im old fashioned

What is truly disgusting is the way some people will twist the words of a poster, or simply insert their own and attribute it to the poster, to fit their own agenda

Here's a hint
It doesn't work when done in the same thread because we can actually see the words for ourselves

PS
I also think the gun looks unwieldy and butt ugly and I think felons should be allowed to own firearms,

[Optical Serenity]

That is awesome....the AK reliability for a Shotgun...makes for good competition I think to semi-auto shotguns...

[expeditionx]

............................................................

[ghettoestl]

the bill of rights shall not be amended!!!!!!! CALM DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

[joab]

expeditionx
Since you seem to be able to ascertain the true meaning of his words merely by his political affiliations and signature I will take the liberty of translating your post in similar fashion

"ghettoestl
I detest everything you stand for and therefore you therefore anything you say is disgusting"

Your hatred turns this
why the hell would u want it?? its not too practical. its just big and ugly sorry im old fashionedInto this

I cant stand a LEO that claims he is Pro-democrat to make a comment to a gun-person trying to discourage the ownership of a black-semiauto shotgun that would scare the creampuffs out of most liberal democrats.That my friend is word twisting and grand inductive leaping on an Olympic scale
You like many others that I have issues with refuse to address the actual comments made and choose to assign whatever hidden meaning you feel like assigning at the moment.

nd since you have no sig line at all, by your reasoning, can we interpret that to mean that you stand for nothing ?

[Weeg]

Yeah, Democrats are just dandy for our country... :D

Especially the policy of "cut and run"...

http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/parodies/if_it_happened_today.jpg

http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/parodies/got_your_back.jpg

[ghettoestl]

yo retard FDR was a democrat

[churchillburke]

ghettoestl is probably from St. Clair County. The biggest enclave of parasitic Democrats in the country. If he's a police officer in that county and still a Demonrat then he clearly is not fully in possession of his intellectual faculties. Democrats are the party that hates guns and wants to take them away from us pure and simple. They are the party of a behemoth government, huge bureaucracies, limited personal freedom, limited personal choices (unless you choose to kill your unborn child), appeasement, and finally surrender. The Democrats loath the traditions of our country and wish to remake our country as a socialist Islamic hellhole.

[ghettoestl]

is everybody on this site a moron:confused: :confused: :confused:

[expeditionx]

................................

[joab]

A word of advice would be dont go to an NRA convention wearing a "I voted for John Kerry/Hillary Clinton shirt" unless you want to see some really colorful comments made about your shirt statement.More simplistic inductive leaps on your part, I hate Kerry and voted for Bush.
See what I mean.

A word of advice for you and the other nembie
Ease up on the personal attacks that have nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

He said the gun was ugly and impractical nothing more, don't turn it into a political and personal attack.

is everybody on this site a moronNo, but some have not revued the rules of constructive conversation yet

[expeditionx]

.......................................................................

[ghettoestl]

ok now joab is the only reasonable person on here. and to u others ot there, did u really believe that there was not 1 single democrat in this country that owned a gun?? i mean seriously i came to this site for information. not to be attacked. i put that signature there because i thought people would get a kick out of it. but holy sh*t yall need to calm down

[ghostrider_tx]

Howdy

Here's another 10 rounder. http://www.knoxx.com/index2.html

[jibjab]

My friend has a Saiga 12 it's fun to shoot, screw in chokes would be nice, with that there could be a screw in to controll muzzle jump. The other thing that annoyed me was the safty, it's loud like the AK .

[ghettoestl]

i want the breachers grip from the knoxx site :p

[expeditionx]

.............................................................

[expeditionx]

Ok glad we got that out of the way.
Now back to Saiga discussion.

[ghettoestl]

well just think it could have also been the other way around too. the anti gun people could have gone and dumped a lot of money on republicans and the pro gun people could have dumped all their money on democrats. its not about politics or beliefs its about money and they dont care about anything else

[Weeg]

yo retard FDR was a democrat

Yo, that was 60 years ago...And the ENTIRE WORLD was at war.

OK, let me clarify...From LBJ (Should have been Clinton's initials) on, Dems have been nothing but bad for our country


:D

[joab]

Yo, that was 60 years ago...And the ENTIRE WORLD was at war.

OK, let me clarify...From LBJ (Should have been Clinton's initials) on, Dems have been nothing but bad for our country

And that Saiga would still be butt ugly if a Whig was in office.
Dems didn't make it ugly, Commies did
:rolleyes:

[superdude]

I think that the shot gun would be very fun to go out and just have a day shotting, that the apeal to me.

No more of this attacking, just talk about the shotgun and everyone will get along fine!

[Widder]

My God, what have I started?:eek:

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, and it doesn't faze me that someone thinks a gun is ugly and unwieldy looking. (Hey, maybe I want it BECAUSE it's ugly and intimidating). I have my personal preferences, and somebody else has theirs. Big deal. But to attack a fellow gun lover just because he belongs to a different political party is, frankly, pathetic.

[expeditionx]

Widder,

There is no longer any dispute. Please keep in mind that what one person states can be extremely offensive to another and can provoke a dispute. If I had a signature line that stated
Al-Qaeda will own your _ss, im sure alot of people would find that offensive. I hate Al quada enough that if I saw someones signature line like that I would be hard pressed not to remark.
But if you honestly think disputes like the previous one are too rough for your feathers, then never go to http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10 because your likely to see alot of debate.

By the way, if you cant have a Saiga in California its probably because someone thinks you shouldnt be trusted to have one.
That is something to think about,but not an issue to debate on a Saiga thread.

[mpi]

i got one, it's great, reliable with anything i put in it. i don't think it's ugly, it's an ak. these are a blast to shoot and are the best defensive shotguns in the world. this is coming from a guy with 2 mossies and 5 870's of different configurations. i got more shotguns than i know what to do with. the saigas are almost my favorites [an 1897 takedown riot gun is my all time fav]
mpi

[joab]

But if you honestly think disputes like the previous one are too rough for your feathers, then never go to http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...splay.php?f=10 because your likely to see alot of debate.
The link you provide is to the Legal and Political section of the forum, this is the Shotgun section. See the difference ?

[expeditionx]

Yes I do. And thats why I will not debate any political issues anymore on this Saiga thread I started. :)

Im glad we can all get along.

[Gazpacho]

When I heard that the Saiga-12 was going to be imported again, I pre-ordered one. Then I sat down and really thought about it. I checked the boards and followed the Destructive Device debate. When I decided that I truly wanted it, I called up and ordered a second one. If the Gubmint decides to turn them Saigas into DDs, then one of mine is gonna loose about 6 inches off of the front end. Perfectly legal. DDs don't qualify as SBRs. :p

BTW, is there such a thing as a "practical" shotgun? If so, what are the criteria? This is a serious, non-hostile question.

[expeditionx]

DD's and short barrel rifles are both NFA items and require about the same to register them. You got me curious does the state you live in allow short barrel rifles and not DD's?

As long as no one starts manufacturing a drum for these shotguns the ATF is not likely to press the issue. There just isnt the same kind of anti-gun activism there was in the late 1980's and early 1990's.
The current congressional majority has been a deterrent in that aspect.

[Mesa Tactical]

OK, let me clarify...From LBJ (Should have been Clinton's initials) on, Dems have been nothing but bad for our country

Liberal Democrat and the best friend of gun rights in the entire Congress: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dingell

[Mesa Tactical]

And I don't think he's to ready to touch off a real shot, even a small gauge gas powered shotty shouldn't be rested against the bicep... Looks like a backyard "wanna-be" pic to me.

With the photographer standing where he is, I hope to hell the weapon isn't even loaded.

What has happened to this forum?

[russcomp]

going to check these links

[GeorgeF]

Whew, right now I'm just pulling together the funds for a Tromix 8" Saiga-12. What a beautiful-looking shotgun!

I've got enough other shotguns to satisfy: Trench gun, Fox side by side, Ithaca 20 gauge semi, and two others that could go skeet shooting if that swhat I wanted.

But I like the idea of a SHTF shotgun that is all business. Plus its pretty unique.

Anyone have any input on how these things handle with non-magnum loads?

[IronBalls]

what a fine entry gun this could make,...
Short bbl and still capacity, and semi....
Only if only i lived in a free sate.... One day i will move my tax base to NV, and savor the sweet flavor of free air-