Shooting stance what do you prefer?

[Kraziken]

Had an interesting debate on pistol shooting stances. I'm just wondering what people are used to.

Isoceles, or some sort of Weaver or modified?

[jrothWA]

use isocacles for silhouette, braced weaver for sighting in @ fifty yds.
Sometimes regular target stance for just plinking.

[curmudgeon1]

For SD, I practice right hand only, leaving the left free for maneuvering in case of close quarters encounters.

[FM12]

Weaver. Always. After 30 years, it's a little late to try anything else.;)

[evan1293]

I shoot CAR for anything within 10 yards. Superior weaopon retention, reduced felt recoil and more effective shooting while moving laterally are some of the reasons why I've adopted this particular system. For longer shots I shoot mod. Iso.

[Kraziken]

I tend to use modified Weaver myself. I tried it and it seemed more natural.

The modern isoceles seems to be pretty similar except for not using the push/pull techinque.

[Jim March]

Modified Weaver. I like the pattern of sideways footwork it encourages, and as a cross-dominant (left eye, right hand) it enables transitioning to a "cheek weld" hold, right side chin against my right bicep for long shots. Works great.

[evan1293]

I like the pattern of sideways footwork it encourages

Just wondering...What do you mean by this? I think you and I are thinking the same thing about the ease of lateral movement / shooting from a bladed stance like weaver or CAR as opposed to iso which requires you to twist uncomfortably while shooting during lat. movement.

I've found for me that a lot of the shooting stances / systems / techniques like point shooting (ie quick kill), aimed iso /weaver, and alike all have some really great strong points. I think at times I use some of all of them and my focus during training is often to be able to flow effortlessly from one platform to another as the situation would dictate. I have my default platform which I go to instictively, but I try to work with a lot of the different systems to help me be a more well rounded 'fighter.'

[Erik]

Modern isoceles.

[The Tourist]

I prefer hiding under a bed waiting for the police if I have my choice.

I'll try to shoot from cover and concealment if forced to do so.

I train with the modified Weaver.

[Peter M. Eick]

Weaver. It is what I was taught 30 odd years ago and have stuck with it ever since.

[WESHOOT2]

I side with the Tourist on this.
Except that FBI says 9% of 911 calls get on-site aid within 5 minutes.....
.....which begs the question about the other 91%.

AND I live kinda in the woods (although there is a State Police barracks within driving distance).

I shoot from whatever stance the immediate circumstance requires; I prefer modern Isco and modified Weaver and stuff.......I ain't too racy.

[pinetree]

Weaver all the way. Had to look it up just now. I have found it the most comfortable and natural.

[Tuttle8]

Mainly modified Weaver, Chapman....
I practice isosceles even though I can't stand it and off-hand(including left). That way, just in case the unthinkable happens, it will be natural to fire my gun in unfavorable circumstances.

On a much smaller scale: If you write with your right hand, try switching to writing with your left when signing important documents. Kinda makes you uncomfortable, doesn't it? Now, think about your right shoulder taking a bullet and you can only make use of your left hand to fire and reload(rare, I know, but possible nonetheless) when an assailant is wanting to take your life...

[The Tourist]

I side with the Tourist on this.

I try to interject a tad of humor in my responses, and to be fair, the OP asked about shooting stances, not combat stances.

But this brings up a good point, and that is just what do we hope to accomplish with defensive firearm. My point is to just stay alive.

For example, there is an old canard about how can you tell if a man is a Marine. The answer is that "He is the one running towards the gunfire..."

Unless helping my wife or a dear friend, yes, I'm under the bed. I have nothing to prove, and I have a thick batch of x-rays to document that.

But we react as we are trained. I'm not sure it's wise to ingrain someone with the idea that standing straight up in Weaver is the best first response.

I'm very lucky here. We have a home that came with a large walk-in closet. Being the devious and paranoid man that I am (don't let my incredible good looks fool you), I converted it to a safe room. While still functional for clothing, it has ammo, several spare pistols, cell phone chargers, etc.

Clearly, I want a hard dividing line in my experience between shooting and combat.

[OJ]

I'm sure practicing correct stances (your choice) is important but, the other side of the coin is noted as #4 in "rules of combat' for USMC as follows -

Rules of Combat
USMC
1. Bring a weapon. Preferably, bring at least two. Bring all of your friends who have weapons. Bring their friends who have weapons.
2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.
3. Only hits count. Close doesn't count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough, nor using cover correctly.
5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)
6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a big weapon and a friend with a big weapon.
7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived and who didn't.
8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.
9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting is more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the weapon.
10. Use a weapon that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."
11. Someday someone may kill you with your own weapon, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
12. In combat, there are no rules, always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
13. Have a plan.
14. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.
15. Use cover or concealment as much as possible. The visible target should be in FRONT of YOUR weapon.
16. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
17. Don't drop your guard.
18. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.
19. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them).
20. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
21. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

[WESHOOT2]

I abhor violence, but acknowledge its existence.
React, yep.
As trained, yep.
Crap.

No bullet holes in me (yet).

I live in a much safer place now.....gun for 'peace of mind' rather than 'needed'.
Mostly.

[Stevie-Ray]

Isocever

[The Tourist]

other side of the coin..."rules of combat"

I'm very happy you printed this. I've seen similar lists in the past, and the guy who compiled the info obviously had a sense of humor. Coupled with that, I think he also had a few scars.

One of the things I do here is provide a less glamorous depiction of CYA. For example, where else other than TFL would you see a biker recommend that you hide under a bed?

In the real world, that's where.

But in the same breath we should also openly discuss the "live to fight another day" aspect of safety and security. Your list also boldly printed the concept of cheating. I know I will cheat. As gutless as that might sound, why should I allow a fourth degree MA the use of his arms, hands and feet against me? Better to cut a tendon and paralyze him.

The problem as I see it is too many fictitious representations like The Lone Ranger and James Bond. The all encompassing idea of "a field of honor."

Yeah, it's a field alright. A field where I'm going to throw dust in your eyes or jam a grenade down your pants.

Until then, I'll be under the bed with the dust bunnies. To my knowledge, a dust bunny has never been awarded a Purple Heart.

Thank you for providing a viewpoint I believe needs to be announced.

[Tuttle8]

Actually, Tourist, I see no shame in your tactics.

Every person has their own belief in methods of protection. I say for the ones that may laugh at your take in "hiding under the bed" or making your closet a safe room should be glad that you would be alive for them to poke the biker with the stick. The alternative is a grim reality...

I do admit that I'm a bit of a "tack-ti-cool" enthusiast. I'm not donned with 5.11 gear from head to toe on the lookout for Charlie at flea markets on the weekends or anything. But, my wife and I do find the art of defensive tactics very interesting and actually enjoyable.

I'm sure if the day comes that my wife or I have to defend our lives by use of deadly force we won't execute like an Army Special Forces individual. However, we hope to default to the level of training that we receive. Heck, we will probably end up under the bed as well with 911 dialed on the phone. But, I like to reasonably prepare to adequately defend myself in the meantime.

I do like the Rules of Combat posted here. However, in the civilian world, half of those rules that you would follow in a self defense situation would bury you in court. Simple as that.

[RickB]

"Flexed" iso. No straight arms or legs.

[tplumeri]

Not sure what you call it, but ever since grandaddy put a revolver in my hand, Ive been shooting the same way: right hand extended and left hand hooked into my belt behind my back.

[The Tourist]

Tuttle8, don't worry, you get to the age where covering up your ego is just too much trouble. Besides, the walk-in closet came with the house. ;)

I watched a cable special on TV a few years ago that offered an explanation on why the casualy lists were so large in The Southern War For Independence.

They opined that many units were made from boys who came from the same geographical area. If a battle was going poorly, and common sense (or even a prudent tactical use of men) suggested a retreat, many units rode right into the fire.

Coupled with friends since childhood, no one wanted to appear the coward.

And I don't want to suggest tactics here that influence foodhardy behavior. I don't fight every insult. I don't boldly prowl every dank neighborhood. I don't dress for a stroll in Tikrit.

If in the use of layered security I knew my home was going to sustain a home invasion, I go into lockdown--period.

I'm not going to die in my bathrobe replete with a pump shotgun and a "ddamn the torpedos" speech right out of Dirty Harry. Not to protect a washer, dryer, 17 year old radio and a block of crappy kitchen knives. (Yeah, yeah, I know.)

I went down to the Harley shop today to check on Black Betty and found that there was a "Taste of Madison" going on in the showroom. I saw a ton of middle-aged guys in so much leather, conchos, chains and silver trimmed boots I thought I was at a gay rodeo. Yikes it's 15 degrees below zero, not a bike in sight and we have a throng of jockeys in road clothes.

Heck, I wore boots and a crappy winter coat. Yikes guys, in a crisis protect the nads.

And that's my point. I think we have gotten to a point in fashion and decorum that we can't even go to a fight unless we drench ourselves in Oleg Cassini. For Pete's sake, it's a bike shop!

And so it is here. I don't want a young guy risking his safety and security to "buy a pistol like Tourist has." I want the guy to grow in age and enjoy life. To stop acting so much like Chuck Norris and goof around a bit like Barney Fife.

This ain't rehearsal, folks, it's the real deal. One shot at life. I'll save a spot for you under the bed.

[Double Naught Spy]

Shooting stance what do you prefer?

Whatever one I am in when my sights settle on the target.

[WESHOOT2]

My favorite 'defense method' is "run screaming like a girl the other way".

My favorite projectile is my car.

I have other things to do than die.

(at least, that's my plan, ay?)

[DCJS Instructor]

The Stance is the base for the shooting platform. Not only does a proper stance assist in controlling recoil, it also allows you to move and react quickly and to draw your weapon with minimal movement.

The proper stance consists of:

a. Shoulders square to the target.
b. Feet shoulder width apart.
c. Weight slightly forward on the balls of the feet.
d. Head remains high and still with chin pointing at the target.
e. Ears in front of shoulders, shoulders in front of hips.
f. Be Comfortable.

The shooting stance is basically a support or shooting platform. The quality of the stance is a major determining factor in creating conditions for maximum control and accuracy for shooting.

A high degree of control is necessary to deliver a rapid, accurate shot. Every individual is unique and possess characteristics that are their’s alone. These characteristics include height, weight, muscular and skeletal development, degree of flexibility and more. Therefore, there can be no universal shooting stance that can be utilized by all people.

Each shooter, under the guidance of the Firearms Instructor, and consistent with safety must find the shooting stance which is best suited to them and provides the greatest degree of stability and accuracy for shooting. The shooter must be able to assume their stance instinctively, as a reflex action with minimal effort or conscious manipulation of their body.

Remember: "Conflict is inevitable; Combat is an option".

Stay Safe & Shoot Straight!

Tom Perroni

Owner /Lead Instructor
http://wwwperronitactical.com

Training Director
http://wwwgoldenselenterprises.com

Lead DCJS Instructor
http://www.blackwaterusa.com

[Boris Bush]

eTraining is good, and practice is just as good, but. When you get into your first firefight, it will be exactly as you did not train. Before a good stance you need to learn sight picture, trigger control, and breath control. You might have to shoot while sitting, you might be on the ground shooting past your legs or over your head or left or right, you just might have to shoot weak handed (I can shoot just as well lefty as I can righty).

After you learn all that, if you ever get into a firefight where stance will help you, then by all means learn a stance........

BTW: I have been there done that. I will never forget the first time I was shot at. I thought "are you serious, did he shoot at me, he is about to have a bad day" . I trained many years for that moment and I remember sight picture, I remember my breathing, and I remember pressing the trigger straight back. At that point I dont remember hearing anything, and I have no clue what my shoulders hips or feet were doing, FWIW

[tplumeri]

a block of crappy kitchen knives

maybe "crappy" but i bet he can shave with them!

My favorite 'defense method' is "run screaming like a girl the other way".

LOL!!!

. Therefore, there can be no universal shooting stance that can be utilized by all people.


Agree. the key is to be comfortable with your stance and practice it until you dont have to think about it.
JMHO

[Moe Howard]

I have always used a Weaver stance. I am cross eye dominate and it just works better for me. I have run into guys who are really great shooters, that have tried to give me pointers, and convince me to use an isosceles stance, convinced it would improve my shooting even more. I have trained for weeks at a time trying to change but, my stance works well for me and I always come back to it. It can be hard for some shooters to discover which stance works best for them, but when they do IMO they should stick with it.

[warrior poet]

Oy vay. I like modified Weaver when on leave or liberty; it presents the least of ME for the BG to shoot back at. But when serving Uncle Sam, I use isoceles. It makes the most of my body armor and SAAPI plates. I'm of the belief that one should practice them all... and use the one appropriate to the situation. Getting LOCKED into an "always or never" mentality is dangerous. Combat demands adaptation... AND situation dictates action. Just my two slugs o' copper.