Shotgun Disappointment?

[roy reali]

Is anyone else here disappointed by the shotgun pictures shown here by posters?

Sometimes I'll see a new thread about looking at someones new shotgun. I open it expecting to see a firearm with wood and nice engraving. I am hoping to see a nice Browning or Berretta or any descent field gun. But, more often then not, it is some monstrosity with a pistol grip and/or tactical stuff attached to it.

I realize these are shotguns too. I realize they have a place and purpose too. I also realize everyone has different tastes when it comes to guns. I guess the word shotgun just conjures up a different image in my mind.

Does anyone else here think this way too?

[mikenbarb]

I would also rather see a nicely made field gun so your not alone. If I had a way to post pics I would send some pics of my hunting guns. Im not a tacticool gun guy and love wood and metal thats engraved without plastic tacticool stuff installed to hide what the gun really is. I know some people have a purpose for these weapons but im not one of them. My vault includes, Remington 870, Remington 1100, Browning gold 3.5, Mossberg 500, Stoeger condor, Winchester Diamond 2 barrel set, Charles Harvan Castillion grade, Kimber M96, 2-Savage 340c's .223 & 30-30, Benelli SBE, Ithaca Mag-10, Savage 220A, 2-Remington Model 11's- 12 & 20, J.C. Higgins 101.40, Savage 210F slug gun, Remington 7600 carbine 30-06, etc,etc,etc. Dont have room to list all but these are a few I own.:D

[johnbt]

Ah, we're just wrongheaded. You need to read the thread "Why Expensive Shotguns", it will explain the error of our ways. :)

Meanwhile, here's a little something to keep you going.

http://gunroom.shootingsportsman.com/files/listing/433/p1011574.jpg

F Grade Model 1100 that was for sale at William Larkin Moore.

[k8do]

Daughter's boy toy is ex special forces...
His shotgun is dull black, no shine, no engraving, has a sling... Has friction tape wrapped on the pistol grip... Says he changes it often to keep it fresh and sticky... When I asked why, he shrugged and said blood is really slippery and he got a gun partially pulled out of his grip one time because there was blood on his hands... You wouldn't enjoy looking at pictures of his shotgun...

denny

[roy reali]

Thanks! Now, that is what I picture when I hear the word "shotgun".

[Laz]

When it comes to weapons, “I love not the sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness; I love that which they defend."

When it comes to pictures of shotguns, I'd rather see something beautiful.

[Jeff Mulliken]

This site is dominated by tacticool owners. If you want to rub elbows with collectors and bird hunters there are better sites. But this can change if there are enough posters that join in the discussions on sporting arms.

Here is some high quality wood on 80 to 100 year old Auto-5's to wet your appetite:

http://web.4girards.com:8080/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=13423&g2_serialNumber=2

http://web.4girards.com:8080/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=13426&g2_serialNumber=2

Jeff

[roy reali]

I wonder if the tactical shotgun people just have a different mentality then the "standard" shotgun folks? I don't mean this question to infer superiority or insuperiority on anyones part. But the obsessive picture posting of the tacticool shotgunners makes me wonder.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

I own both.

So what's the problem??

[mikenbarb]

I dont have a way to post pictures but if I did I proably wouldnt want to post pics of my guns. Too many prying eyes that want to know what I have and dont need the possibility of a stalker to try to get them some night(or day). It keeps them guessing what I have in my closet waiting for them to break the do not enter law for my house. I list my basic firearms, and if I had any high end guns then they would stay a mystery except for the guys that I hunt and shoot with. and maybe the guy trying to get into my window. Except to him it would just be a big bright flash.:D

[kristop64089]

I own 3 shotguns 1 tactical I took in trade, and 2 inherited.

Shotguns are tools, there my quail/pheasent guns, they get beat up and scratched. I want a beautifuly engraved O/U, but I know I would puke in my mouth if I ever scratched it! And I can't just buy one to never use it.

Unfortunately my others just aren't picture pretty:(

[johnbt]

"I own both.

So what's the problem??"
_____________________

Nothing, just post pictures of the ones with the pretty wood. They're the ones that are the most fun to look at.

Take this test. Look at the following lousy snapshot of two guns with 28" barrels. Which gun did you look at, the 870 Express or the 28 ga. Guerini?

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/JohnBT3/DSCN0165a3.jpg?t=1208290836

[mikenbarb]

The bottom one caught my eye first when I noticed the gold trigger and stylish outline of the stock and forearm. Is that a Prince of Whales style stock? I cant make out too well but it looks beautiful. Did one get a trigger job?

[lon371]

The 870 caught my eye first. I do like the pretty one though.:)

[roy reali]

The pictures posted here are what I think of as shotguns.
I consider those tacticool shotguns on the same level as seeing Rosie O'Donnel in a bikini.:barf: Technically she is a woman, but not what I picture a woman to look like in my mind.

[10-96]

I too expect to see beauty measured by gauge when I stop by here- or I would like to. I go ugly and working class on my pistols and rifles, but I'm not rich enough to be able to enjoy the fine bred lines of shotguns. I have several unaltered and uncool and untactical shotguns and they're as close to elegant and refined as I'm likely to ever get- I love 'em anyway. To me, shotgunning is, or should be, a gentlemans sport. And yes, some of those things serve a less than refined purpose, but those purposes by their pure nature are at best somewhat less than genteel.

[roy reali]

Can anyone tell me one thing that a tacticool shotgun can do that a traditional "sporting" shotgun can't?

[Hawg Haggen]

To me tacticool sucks, even the word tacticool is childish. I like real guns with wood stocks. I don't need pretty wood or engraving because my guns get used not stored in a safe. The closest thing I have to tactical is my 97 Winnie with a 20 inch tube and six round magazine.

[Hawg Haggen]

I do have this one tho.
May not be your cup o tea.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/rebel727/shotgun/Shotgun044.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/rebel727/shotgun/8b06a217.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/rebel727/shotgun/08df84bc.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/rebel727/shotgun/e8d03e44.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/rebel727/shotgun/d00e9810.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/rebel727/shotgun/Shotgun030.jpg

[WVnews]

I have three or four nice shotguns. One of them is set up for home defense. I have a total of $150 in it.

Is there something wrong with it? I pointed it at a burglar at 3 am last saturday morning, and he seemed impressed enough to fall of the ladder he was trying to enter the second floor of my house with before he ran off into the woods.

There are a lot of readers of this forum who can't afford a $2,800 single bbl trap gun..should they be left out?

[Freakdaddy]

This is one I just picked up a couple of months ago but still haven't had a chance to shoot it. It's a 2006 SHOT Show special with less than 100 made in this configuration. I thought it was rather unique and definitely not something you see every day.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/Freakdaddy2/DSC01577.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/Freakdaddy2/DSC01576.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/Freakdaddy2/DSC01582.jpg

This is one of my favorites. It is my grandfather's Model 11. It was made in the very early 1900's and has a custom Bishop stock. Although not spectacular wood, nice nonetheless.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g80/Freakdaddy2/T-Bolt/165-6509_IMG.jpg

The other ones I have are a Gold Fusion, Auto-5 12 Mag, Wingmaster and BPS 10 gauge. I'm also a big fan of a high polished, deeply blued metal with nice wood. Nothing against camo or parkerized finishes as they serve the purpose they were intended for...much like tactial models. They just don't make me take a second look or say "WOW! That Mossy Oak has some INCREDIBLE depth!" LOL!

[Jeff Mulliken]

It's nice to see some pictures of real guns. Sometimes the background makes the gun picture, here is a 1936 Parker 16 ga:

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m231/jeffmulliken/OctoberBirds04007.jpg

And my best friend Luke always makes guns look good. Here he is with a 12 and 16 ga A5's and the results of a mornings work

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m231/jeffmulliken/FileLukegeese0010.jpg

BTW, I gave up worrying about zombies attacking when I realized the odds were much better of winning the lottery...how many of you have actually ever pointed a shotgun at a person? Really.

Some great pictures dont even have guns in them, they just make you smile:

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m231/jeffmulliken/f5a3f137.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m231/jeffmulliken/FreeCat.jpg

[FL-Flinter]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/Doubleflint12.jpg

[FL-Flinter]

Jeff,

"free cat" :D :D :D :D :D

[roy reali]

Great pictures! Thanks for renewing my faith in shotgunners. Maybe their should be two shotgun categories on TFL. After all, hunting shotguns and tactical shotguns almost don't seem like the same weapons.

[NINE]

http://rgsqaq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1peePn1WbM4shAcubxF2vpq25mP8CSk-Q5CakfVzXS5KOUu9-VG-HRPLEJ9QDclCSjq0fMEWAYiZPWHyqx-bAHPA/DSC00867crp2.JPG

[olddrum1]

You guys put some great looking guns on here and the cat was an added bonus!

[SiNNiK]

I hadn't expected to hear the voice of intolerance ring out from the Hunters side of the fence first. At some point in the future I do plan to purchase shotguns in various flavors, but for now, my HD shotgun is all I have.

And I agree, "Tacticool" is rather childish, mainly because it's spelled "Tactical". I'll refrain from posting pictures of mine so as not to dissappoint roy reali further than he already is.

Sure hate feeling that I can't play with the rest of y'all just because my shotgun collection is sparse.

As for what can a Tactical Shotgun do that a Sporting Shotgun can't, I'd much rather come through a doorway or around a corner inside my house with only 18.5" of barrel than with a 26" or a 28" barrel. I'm not sure I could feed the barrel through the doorway fast enough.

I absolutely love the woodwork on the shotguns in this thread, gives me ideas about what I want later on.

[RsqVet]

Actually for me about 50% of the "tactical" shotguns I see posted here make me cringe as well...

Pistol grips, poorly made or attached light sources, "heat shields", enough extra ammo to take a small central american country, lasers??? ... god knows what else....

Is it just me or after the AR15 and AK the poor 12ga gets the most over tactial treatment

Get an 870, mossberg, benelli or remingtion semi-auto, add a surefire light if you need, sling and call it a day....

[FL-Flinter]

SiNNiK,

I don't think it's "intolerance" as much as it is boredom. There is a difference between "tacticool" (tact' - eh - cool) and "tactical" - tactical is that weapon set up for a specific offensive combat purpose ~ tacticool is when people put a whole bunch of tactical additions onto their bedroom gun to simply to make it look cool.

I come down right smack in the middle of this issue because I am of the firm belief that if you want a "tactical", "tacticool", a rather unimpressive by any means plain-jane "Sears" branded gun or a fancy field gun with five figures to the left of the decimal point....by all means you should in fact have what makes you happy and be proud of it!

If you look at purely from a utilitarian point of view, a good 90% of what billed as "tactical" is simply not "practical". They are toys and bling that serve no purpose other than to satisfy the "tacticool" bragging-rights bug. There is nothing wrong with that by any means because it makes people happy and bragging-rights are what it's all about no matter if it's related to "tacticool" or having that hand-carved extra-fancy tropical hardwood stock with 18 coats of hand-rubbed oil on it. I am equally satisfied spending 200+ hours with chisels, knives and scrapers putting artwork on a gunstock as I am investing months/years developing a practical device or product. While you're sitting there hour after hour honoring the master gunbuilders of the 17th - 19th century by carrying on the tradition of transforming a utilitarian gun into a one-of-a-kind work or art, it gives you time to think about the new bolt lock design or how to cut the manufacturing time on the choke tubes to bring their costs down within reason and without sacrificing quality.

I didn't see the point of this post to be condescending but rather to call for a show of some wood & blue/brown as opposed to plastic & flat black/stainless. It's all about what makes you happy!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/Pistol/leftgripwalnut.2.jpg

[Jeff Mulliken]

More autoloading eye candy.

This is a D grade Remington Autoloading Shotgun (made before they started calling it the Model 11) It is not mine, I stripped it and cleaned the action and refinished the wood for the owner, these are the before pictures.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m231/jeffmulliken/Stockright.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m231/jeffmulliken/Recieverclose.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m231/jeffmulliken/Recieverleft.jpg

Jeff

[roy reali]

Your post was well written. You made some good points. I agree, anyone should have the right to buy the firearm of their desire.

Still, I have not any answer to a question I asked earlier. Can anyone tell me one thing that a tactical shotgun can do that a standard field one can't?

[SiNNiK]

FL-Flinter,

Thank you for the thorough response. It certainly put things in a different light.

roy reali:

Still, I have not any answer to a question I asked earlier. Can anyone tell me one thing that a tactical shotgun can do that a standard field one can't?

I'll take "Get on roy reali's nerves" for $100, Alex

:D

[Oli]

Eye candys for you guys:

http://www.hollandandholland.com/
H&H are extremely expensive, never had the chance to shoot one.

Verney-carron is somewhat affordable (1300$ cdn +) but feels like a million bucks and shoot like a dream.
http://www.verney-carron.com/

[Oli]

my former boss had a pair of AH Fox guns he paid 25K.
http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/index/Fox/Fox1.html
http://www.foxcollectors.com/


Also...
http://www.parkergun.org/

[Super-Dave]

I know yall will hate me for saying this but I would rather have a "tacticool" shotgun than a "fudd" gun.


I mean you can't even mount a bayonet on a "fudd" gun!

When I see a mossberg 590 or a remington 870 police it is like seeing a lamborgini or Ferrari.

When I see those double barreled monstrosities it is like looking at a gmc gremlin or a ford pinto.

[Jeff Mulliken]

There is no hate here, I think we all understand the different strokes thing well enough.

However I like to use my guns for the purpose they were designed for, there is some joy in using a well made tool as it was intended. I like to hunt and I cant seem to find a way to shoot real home intruders on the weekends with any regularity. I suppose if there were as many zombies trying to break into my house as there are geese hovering over my decoys I might find a tactical shotgun neat as well.

And if I cant use it there is always the appearance.....but holding a tactical gun does not make me feel like Rambo or The Terminator like it does for some people so I look at the gun itself.

If a craftsman spent days or weeks with a chisle engraving the metal I see it as art that is more interesting to look at than flat black powder coating. And I have yet to see injection molded plastic that has the character of a piece of 100 year old walnut.

Then there is balance and handling. A hand built fine shotgun leaps to your shoulder and finds a 45 mph target in tenths of a second...the weight falls between your hands so while it absorbs recoil it does not damp the gun and make it unresponsive. On really good guns the barrels are draw filed to create the balance a shooter asked for. Imagine the craftsman that hand filed the barrel to balance a gun and kept the tapers graceful and even. The skills required go beyond understanding. The guy with a file is an artist too....

I could go on....but that's just me. Everyones opinion is perfect for them.

Viva la difference.

Jeff

[Hornet 6]

One of mine.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/neilclay/Guns/Miroku1.jpg

[Hawg Haggen]

Dang Hornet, somebody done went and twisted your barrels over sideways.:D

[Jeff Mulliken]

Hornet, Looks like one of the Browning models....what is it?

Jeff

[roy reali]

Great points on your last post. You left out one thing though. Those nice shotguns with fancy work done to them can stop a BG just as dead as any pistol gripped monstrosity. I would like to see one of those tacticool shotguns hit a crossing dove at thirty yards.

To me, a shotgun is suppose to be one of the most versatile weapons available to the average Joe. I submit that the shotguns pictured on this thread are closer to that ideal then those shown on some of the other threads.

[Jeff Mulliken]

Roy, I agree,

It aint the gun, it's the gunner....but why handicap yourself with a gun that is only good in a gunfight in a double wide mobile home?

I shot a round of skeet with a guy with a full dressed 12 ga zombie killer and his buddies were there to watch the carnage. That guy looked so cool right up to the first time he pulled the trigger. They were thrilled to death with the black gun till somewhere around station 4 and they had not broken a target. They started looking a little gloomy. I'm sure they recovered their bravado by the time they got home.

In a confrontation I want to be holding a sporting gun that I have shot and loaded so many times that I wont even remember doing it till after the smoke clears. I want it to handle fast and I dont care how long the barrel is. If the gun is nice enough the local cops will stop to admire it before they bag the bodies.

[Huntergirl]

With shotguns, there's something for everyone. Everything has a purpose. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Best thing is to know how to use it when the need arises.

[FL-Flinter]

Super-Dave said
I mean you can't even mount a bayonet on a "fudd" gun!

Don't need a bayonet on the Fudd gun Dave, no need for it since you can actually hit them with the first shot. :D

[Laz]

I mean you can't even mount a bayonet on a "fudd" gun!

;) Somehow I can't imagine defending my home with a bayonet mounted on a shotgun. If someone were that close, why would I just not pull the trigger? If I had pulled the trigger and missed till I was empty...well, bad day.

[jlbpa]

870 police magnum, 11-48 16ga (sweet)

[FL-Flinter]

Thanks for the compliments folks but it's just my honest opinion. I used to shoot combat-comp but I didn't have any full-fledged rambo guns. .45acp, 7.62x51 & 12ga. I found out quickly that the more crap you put on a gun, the heavier and less responsive it becomes and all that suff tends to get hung-up on everything as well. Sling was a must have but they were drawn up tight, no play, it had to stay in place when on the move anyway. Even the vented handguard that came with my shotgun got taken off and tossed because all it did was get hung-up and fill with dirt that was blown in your eyes when you went to aim/shoot. Yep, the barrel got hot and if you wrapped your hand around it, you got burned, burns on the paws and neck are just part of playing the game, guard didn't help on the neck anyway. Same deal with the rifle, anything not absolutely essential got tossed.

There are practical uses for many things but if you look at the combat applications for shotguns, there are two basic uses: 1- breeching and clearing of urban structures & 2- rural heavy cover. Range - 100yds tops with quality slugs, more often than not multi-projectile at 50yds tops, most often considerably closer. If the shotgun fits the shooter properly, sights are secondary because it's going to come up and hit where your eyes are looking anyway however, a decent set of low-profile snag-resistant rifle style are a good thing. Light, not me, just makes you a good target. Bayonet, I'll accept that if you're in a last-ditch situation, otherwise I would prefer to use the shotgun as a staff/club in one hand and go to the pistol rather than trying stick the enemy, the pistol recovers much quicker and can put down a second threat before you even get a chance to reverse from the bayonet thrust into the first guy.

If you have a fine double/pump/auto w/30" tubes, it's not going to handle in the bedroom as well as it does in the field. Maybe it fits you well and you can knock a pheasant at 45yds with it but the dang walls, furniture and other things inside your home quickly show you just how long those bbls are and how many things can get in the way. It's the same as those who buy a tactical gun with a full stock on it that's at least 2" too long for the use application. Just as the iron on one end can get in the way, too much hanging off the butt can also get in the way rather quickly and at the worst possible time.

Yep, I have a moss500 with the smoothbore slug bbl on it, loaded and at the ready. No, I'm not concerned with home invasion (even the dummest criminals are not stupid enough to come out here, all the neighbors are well armed and a stranger can't get within a mile of the area w/o the peacocks and dogs announcing it to the world day or night) So, while I'm not concerned with a break-in, I do prefer to be at the ready just in case.

At one gunshow, the vendor next to my table had a (I think it was an H-K) with I suppose every possible option except for a bayonet. It sure did look cool but holy cow it weighed about 25 pounds without any ammo in it. 20 years ago the weight wouldn't have been much of an issue but now....not so much.

In short, if I'm looking at a tactical gun, I want it light and fast without anything that's going to get in the way or make me a better target - I can't move that fast anymore, sometimes I can't move at all ... that's why I would rather make the first shot count because I just ain't up for a running gun battle anymore.

Thus, there are things I wouldn't go for myself but I will admit that it's nice to see all those rambo options because that means the American spirit is not dead, people are still thinking and doing to come up with all the new things and that's what it's all about. :D

[lon371]

Come on Roy,
" To me, a shotgun is suppose to be one of the most versatile weapons available to the average Joe. I submit that the shotguns pictured on this thread are closer to that ideal then those shown on some of the other threads."

Are you kidding me? AVERAGE JOE? The average Joe cant afford one. That is why there are limited numbers of them being posted.

Now I will admit there are some pretty guns on here. I will also admit I would like to have one to display. Although I could never see me having one to drag through the woods, or up and down a tree deer hunting. If I was able to buy one or make one or inherited one, it would be a safe queen and rightfully so. It would be a shame to see one scarred.

Our shotguns are cheap plain old used Mossbergs. One has cheap camo applied(mine) the kids guns are just plain with a nice finish. I don't set in a blind out of the weather, I hunt from the ground or in a tree or walking thru the brush. Our hunting days are limited do to work or schedules. So if it is raining or snowing we hunt when time permits. If I had a pretty one, it would be lonely at the house while we hunted.

Like I said, Those are some nice shotguns, but they are just not for the AVERAGE JOE.

[predator86]

personally i hate engraving......makes it look tacky in my opinion, i would rather see sleek shiny metal that has wear in just the right spots, like my 870 that i have hunted with since i was 11, it has lots of wear marks and looks great.....engraving on a shotgun is kinda like makeup on a whore.....




*edit* also i hit 48 out of 50 clays last weekend with my tacticool 870, i bought the combo, when i get home the slug barrel goes on and the buckshot in the tube, when i shoot clays i put my long barrel on...


oh roy, i9 believe your question was, "what can a tacticool shotgun do that a "sporting firearm" cant? here is your awnser, be an affordable platform (870 rem) with dual barrels (slug and bird) that can dominate the clays (if you can shoot straight) and be taken out into the deer woods and also be a formidable weapon in a confined space such as my house, yeah it a trailer but so what?? does that awnser your question? or do you want more?

[Super-Dave]

The 3 shotguns at the top of this page look awesome. This is all the tactical I need for a shotgun. Except I am usually wearing 2, 50 round bandoliers when I use mine.

I hope I didn't make anyone mad with my "double barreled monstrosities comment". I was just trying to do some "Trolling".

I have never shot clays or pigeons or anything like that. I do go to the range and hunt with my "tacticool shotgun with 20 barrel" Here were I live much of the woods is so thick that it would be rare to see more than a 25 yard shot. In fact most times it is so thick I have to use a machete or keep trying to find multiple routes to get to my destination. I ware gloves when I hunt to so I can grab those damm spiked vines and squeeze through them.

All the game I find is shot under 15 yards. Any barrel longer than what I use would get constantly tangled in the vines/shrubberies.

I actually have thought about buying a stoeger 18" over and under this summer, Becaues it is as long as a 14" barreled remington 870. Where I live it is virtually impossible to be able to buy a Short barreled shotgun..


And I do need a bayonet mount on my shotgun. If I am shooting hog and those suckers charge after I miss them or even hit them, there is a good chance I can finish him off with the bayonet. At 10 yards there is not much time to get multiple shots off at a hog while it is charging at you.


also

Somehow I can't imagine defending my home with a bayonet mounted on a shotgun. If someone were that close, why would I just not pull the trigger? If I had pulled the trigger and missed till I was empty...well, bad day.

I remember watching a clip from hurricane katrina. There were about 12 thugs banging on this ladys front door trying to force their way in. They even were using an ax. She had bared windows so they could not go in that way. This scene was shot from a news helicopter. It was very disturbing and a wake up call for me. If that was my house I could concentrate fire power on the front door once they broke in. With a mossberg 590 with 9 shells I Might be able to take out 6-8 of them as they flood through the door. I would not have enough time to reload but if the bayonet was already on the gun. I could charge them stick a few and hopefully scare off the others.


__________________

[roy reali]

There are some amazingly talented folks here.

[FL-Flinter]

Super-Dave,

Get yourself some Dixie Tri-ball ammo (three 0.600" hard-cast round balls in each hull) and you won't be needing the bayonet for hogs or thugs. Besides, thugs are going to scatter as soon as you start shooting anyway.

A self-admitted troll huh? LOL :D

[Super-Dave]

I have never had to bayonet a hog, but I have had them charge. and luckily I was able to get the second shot off in time.

We actually have people here in florida that hunt hog with spears. They even have guided spear hog hunting trips.

[Jeff Mulliken]

High quality high grade guns dont have to cost a lot of money, if you know how to shop and when to buy. That D grade Remington was purchased for an even $1,000, and was bought within the last 10 months. It will only go up in value.

Jeff

[FL-Flinter]

Predator: personally i hate engraving......makes it look tacky in my opinion, i would rather see sleek shiny metal that has wear in just the right spots, like my 870 that i have hunted with since i was 11, it has lots of wear marks and looks great.....engraving on a shotgun is kinda like makeup on a whore.....

I will agree to a point but not limit it to shotguns. Excessive engraving that is not artfully done is ugly and takes away from the gun. On the other hand, if done as a work of art, the entire gun can be covered and it'll look beautiful. I never go to carving on a stock without first seeing in my mind how it's going to look when it's done. Then I do the initial drawing and see how it looks on the gun. That process may happen numerous times before I even consider picking up a chisel.

This is an example of artwork at it's finest
http://jwh-flintlocks.net/phil-coogan.jpg
http://jwh-flintlocks.net/simon-cougan.jpg

This is rather boring and excessive with no flow or theme
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DarylS/hh1petitwm4.jpg

Another example of artwork
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/images/862a8af927652b7b2fbf7128cf6b360f.jpg

Another example of excessive boring
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/images/aba18772fc70c8cbf79a79f413ef102b.jpg

[J F Cooper]

I guess beauty is truely in th eye of he beholdr, I think the bottom gun is a much finer example, the top one is gaudy,,JFC

[hogdogs]

I fit niether mold... I am a 39 year old utilitarian redneck. When I was 18-24 I bought and sold guns faster than most people eat breakfast. I did not have a single "tacticool" weapon nor did I own any flashy wood work or sweet firearms. I did have my grampa's old model 94 and dad's old mossberg .410 bolt action but both were heirlooms to me. I fired both often however. Of the guns I bought, most were new some used. None got strap on toys. I had a bullpup I bought at walmart as well as several .22 rifles and pistols. 9mm handguns .45 cal handguns too... But nothing was anything but a black or blue weapon. I now just own a 20 gauge 500 with 18 inch barrel, black wooden fore stock and a black poly rear stock. It is an all around work horse pulling duty as a dove gun, deer gun, rattle snake killer and should the need arise I will use it to defend the home. I have a $99 .22 bolt action poly stocked Savage rifle for general plinking and small game. My Gamo shadow air rifle also with black plastic stock fills the duty on anything smaller but I paid 40 bucks more for it than the .22. My most recent gun purchase was a basic 5.5inch bullbarrel MKIII 22/45 to plink and to teach my daughter safe pistol handling skills so she can be a CCW toter as an adult. I have under 700 bucks in all these and all were bought new...
To each his own and what ever suits your needs is fine by me! Just don't laugh at me when I break out my shotgun for a dove shoot... I drop a pot full jist fine!
Brent