Shotgun for home defense

[Thorough Pro]

I have no prior knowledge of shotguns, would wellcome suggesstions for a pure home defense shotgun which is easy to maneuver in the confines of an urban home. Please also suggest best ammo for the same purpose.
Thank you.

[Slopemeno]

Just about any 18"-20" barreled pump shotgun...Mossberg 500 or 590, Remington 870, Winchester 1300, etc. Stick with the plain-'ol wood stock, and practice, practice, practice.

I have an 18" Remington 870 with a Remington extension and a sidesaddle to carry five extra rounds. It's very simple, and I have less than $200 total into the gun.

I store it in what's called "Cruiser-ready" which is hammer down on an empty chamber, safety off, magazine loaded. All I have to do is cycle it to make it ready for use. To get to cruiser ready *safely*, clear the gun. Make doubly sure there is no live round in the chamber or the magazine. Check again. Dry fire the gun in a safe direction, DONT cylce the pump. Now load the tube magazine. It's ready to go.

Give some thought to what your plans might be if there really is someone in your house. Are you planning on going looking for him/them? Don't, unless you have no other choice. Solo house-clearing is a bad call. Hunker down, call 911, and let the bad guy come to you thru the "fatal funnel", be it a doorway, stairs, window, etc. Let THEM make all the mistakes.

For ammo, I'd stick with the low-recoil 00 buckshot you can get these days. You can read some of the "Birdshot" threads to get an idea of how other guys feel about this subject.

[jhgreasemonkey]

The standard is a 12 guage pump with an 18-20" barrel. It doesnt really matter if it's 5,6,8 or a 9 shot model. Any will do. Wood or synthetic is personal prefference. Make sure you do get a model with a buttstock and not a pistol grip. I owned this gun and it is a great choice at a decent price http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/83/products_id/46276
I now have an ithaca 37 19" barrel pump 5 shot with slam fire capability. While it does it's job I did like the mossberg 500 better. It was more durable.

[jhgreasemonkey]

Oops forgot HD ammo. Any size buckshot will do. You will want to use 2 3/4" 12 guage buckshot for HD. I preffer 00 "double aught" buck and number 1 buck for HD. A few folks prefer slugs or to stagger slug/buckshot loads in the tube. A slug is one BIG solid projectile which requires carefull aiming as opposed to firing buckshot that scatters or spreads out. If you want to try slugs then you will need rifled slugs for this type of smooth bore gun. A good choice for accurate slugs for smooth bore is the federal true ball. Hornady and federal make some great 00 buck loads. Such as the TAP 00 designed for LE use. I would suggest sticking with buckshot.

[MAX100]

If you are looking for a low cost shotgun with a excellent set of ghost ring sights the Norinco 982 are very well made and will last a lifetime. They run about $200 and offer more for the money than any other shotgun. They are a very close copy of the 870 with a few tactical improvements. Most 870 parts and accessories will fit them. If you want a higher end shotgun that offers a lot for the money, the Mossberg 590A1 18.5" bbl LE & Military shotgun would be an excellent choice, about $399 without tube ext. They handle better and are lighter than the 20" model 590.


Mossberg 590A1 18.5" bbl GRS with one of my +2 (7+1) tube ext.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/MAX100/590A1-3-1.jpg


Norinco 982 18.5" bbl GRS with one of my 7+1 tube ext.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/MAX100/GCNOR982-1.jpg




GC

[vitesse9]

The classic coach gun is the short, double barrel shotgun with exposed hammers you see in all the westerns and classic gangster movies (e.g. the Godfather II when Michael goes to Sicily to hide out out). Some coach guns also have internal box lock hammers that can't be manually cocked. I have the internal hammer version (Stoeger coach gun).

The advantages to a coach gun are 1) even with a 20" barrel they are shorter overall than 18" barrel pump and semi-auto. This is because they don't have a receiver. They just have a "lock, stock, and barrel". 2) They are very simple to operate with little to no training/practice. Loading and unloading is as simple as opening the action. For the same reason, they are easy to check to see if loaded etc. Most importantly, they are simple "point and shoot" guns. No worries about shortstroking the action, semi-auto jams etc. Just pull the trigger. Even in a misfire, just pull the other trigger (double triggers) or pull the trigger again (single trigger) and you've got another barrel as a back up. 3) Despite all the talk of the intimidation factor of pump action, there are few things scarier than the sight of a determined homeowner with two barrels of 00 buck.

The only disadvantage is ammo capacity. Whereas a pump gun can offer between 4 and eight round magazine capacity, the coach gun only offers two rounds. As such, you will probably want a handgun to back up the shotgun, or at least a "butt cuff" with a few extra shells on the gun. But, you have to ask yourself, is there any home defense situation that two rounds of 00 buck won't handle? Maybe, but probably not.

I have a Benelli M1 Super 90 and a Stoeger Coach Gun. Even though I have the fancy, high tech tacticool Benelli, the coach gun is the dedicated home defense gun. In all fairness, though, I also keep a Glock 19 in the nightstand a few steps away from the coach gun.

As for ammo selection, opinions vary. I prefer Hornady TAP 00 buck. It's got just a little more recoil than the low recoil loads, but it produces the most consistent pattens I've ever seen and it hits very hard. Any 2 3/4 00 buck would work.

[Shawn Dodson]

I store it in what's called "Cruiser-ready" which is hammer down on an empty chamber, safety off, magazine loaded. The hammer isn't "down" in cruiser ready condition for an 870. Hammer "down" unlocks the slide, which, in a police cruiser, allows bumps and vibrations to "retract" the slide.

Cruiser ready requires the hammer to be in cocked position, which locks the slide and requires the slide release to be pressed to cycle the slide and chamber a round.

The manual safety should ALWAYS be engaged until the gun is readied for use. This practice forces the shooter to ALWAYS go through the motions of disengaging the safety. Mr. Murphy will ensure the safety is engaged, either by it being bumped in storage or inadvertently left in engaged position the last time it was handled, when one ASSUMES it's disengaged.

If you're considering the Norinco, I first suggest you visit a few pawn shops to see if there are any used 870s available. You can send it to Wilson Combat and have it completely rebuilt & refinished for a couple of hundred bucks.

However if the Norinco is your choice, I suggest you replace all springs with Wolff gun springs.

I hope this helps.

Cheers!

[MAX100]

Shawn Dodson:

However if the Norinco is your choice, I suggest you replace all springs with Wolff gun springs.


The only spring that needs to be replaced in the Norinco 982 is the mag tube spring. The trigger group has heavy more durable springs in it than the Express. It has spring like the 870P. The hammer in the Norinco 982 is thicker steel also.

It is hard to beat a new shotgun that comes with a nice set of GRS for $200. Here are pictures of the GRS if anyone would like to see them. Made of all steel and very good quality machining as you can see in the pictures. The slot screws that hold the GRS assembly on can be replaced with socket head screws. The size is M4X0.7mm. The elevation set screw is the same size also. Your local hardware store should carry them. They run about 50 cent each.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/MAX100/NORGRS-2.jpg


http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/MAX100/NORGRS-1.jpg


GC

[Cerick]

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/dutchmaster151/Picture108-2-1.jpg

870 all day. 18" barrel with mag extension. Shoot 00 buckshot. for CQB, almost anything will work. Federal tactical with flight control will shoot very tight patterns.

[qwert.380]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/qwert380/12ga.jpg

mossy 500 with 18" and a t6 stock. 00 buck.

have fun

[JasonG]

+1 on the 12 ga. 00 buck combo.
However............
You failed to mention your size.
A 12 ga. loaded with 3" 00 buck, a 7 round mag tube and 5D maglight is nothing for a 5'10 200lbs dude, but how about my 5'3 110lb wife or any smaller person?
Consider a 20 ga. loaded with #3 buck if you are under 140lbs or so.
Oh, and ++1 on considering scenarios and holeing up with the phone until the BG actually comes into your room. Rember the firearm is the LAST resort. Them lead things come out easy but don't go back in so well.

[jrothWA]

will do, if you have used a shotgun before may I suggest locating a gun club near you and ask question and maybe someone would allow you to try some shot to determine what gauge to get??

[Shawn Dodson]

The only spring that needs to be replaced in the Norinco 982 is the mag tube spring. The trigger group has heavy more durable springs in it than the Express. It has spring like the 870P. The Chinese have quality control issues with tempered coil springs. They tend wear out much more quickly. IMO, it's a good idea to simply replace them all to mitigate risk of failure.

Cheers!

[wnycollector]

I have 3 shotguns set up for home defense:
1) mossberg maverick 12ga 8 shot w/ 20" barrel.
2) Ithaca DS police special 12ga
3) 16ga SxS with 18.5" barrel

Currently the maverick and SxS are loaded with 00 buck and #1 buck respectively. My wife tells me if there were a problem in the house she would grab the SxS since it is "idiot proof". I would opt for the maverick.

All of my shotguns would take care of business if called upon. I hope this helps.

[MAX100]

The Chinese have quality control issues with tempered coil springs. They tend wear out much more quickly. IMO, it's a good idea to simply replace them all to mitigate risk of failure.


Not so I have been working on and with the Norinco 982 shotguns for six years now. I have never had a trigger group spring too fail. They are just as or more durable than the springs Remington puts in their Express models. That is not the case with the 982 factory mag tube spring which is thin and wimpy.




GC

[Thorough Pro]

Thanks a lot guys for your suggestions and advice. I'll try a nearby shhoting range and try to fire some of the guns mentioned to get a real feel of the gun before i decide on a specific model.

I believe shotguns are very loud especially when fired in the confines of a home / room. Do you guys also keep some ear muffs/ protection handy to protect your ears/hearing. what is the risk of loosing/damaging ones hearing if a shot gun is fired in a closed room/house.

[vitesse9]

Do you guys also keep some ear muffs/ protection handy to protect your ears/hearing. what is the risk of loosing/damaging ones hearing if a shot gun is fired in a closed room/house.

No. In a life or death situtation, you will neither have time, nor will you care about your hearing. If you're dead, you're hearing doesn't matter.

I have never fired a shotgun indoors without hearing protection, but I tend to think about it in terms of hunting. I have never worn hearing protection on a hunting trip because I need to hear the game I am hunting. At best, I will fire one or two shots from a deer stand. Makes your ears ring for a couple of hours. Probably won't cause significant hearing damage.

If someone breaks into your home and you are in sufficient fear for your life or the safety of your family to use deadly force, then your hearing will be the last thing on your mind. Tactically, the last thing you would want in this type of situation is to deminish your hearing. I hate to compare self defense to hunting, but they are the same in at least this respect: you probably will only get in one, manybe two shots and the need to hear before the shot(s) are fired will outweigh the risk of hearing damage.

Pray that you never have to use deadly force. But if you do, your life comes before your hearing.

[MAX100]

You can't worry about hearing protection when it comes to saving your life.

Anytime you a fire a gun without hearing protection there is irreversible damage caused to your hearing. I have a constant ringing in my left ear from firing a 22 BuckMark without hearing protection.

GC

[RockyMtnTactical]

Remington 870 w/ 00 Buck is my choice for a shotgun.

I also agree, you cannot worry about your hearing when your life is on the line. Survive the encounter first, then worry about your hearing.

[Bill DeShivs]

Hearing loss will be negligible.

[chickenman]

870 all the way with 00

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a369/drmjones11/IMG_0899.jpg

[Conceal Carry]

If there is no time and there is great urgency, i agree that life is a lot more important than hearing. but if there is no immediate danger and you have eloctronic muffs (which do not affect your normal hearing and only cut the sound when it reaches above a specific DB level) would you then consider them in such a situation?

[Cerick]

yes my peltors make me hear better

[Slopemeno]

The average 12 gauge isn't all that bad indoors, really. Sure, it's not healthy for your hearing, but what gun places a lower pressure muzzle blast further from your ear?

I do agree that if you have time to put on the electronic muffs, go for it.

[vitesse9]

to take the time to put on hearing protection. If you get prosecuted for the shooting, one of the issues that might arise (if you are charged with first-degree murder) is whether you premeditated the killing. It is sad, but get a prosecutor with a poltical agenda and you could be painted as a crazy gun nut who was just looking to waste some guy.

The law varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but I think that the fact that you took the time to get hearing protection could be used to argue that you premeditated the shooting. Of course, if you have questions about self defense law, you should consult an attorney licensed to practice in your state . . .

In my personal opinion, if you've got the time to put on hearing protection, then you've got the time to call the police. Call the police with your extra time and hope they get there before the situation escalates to the point where you feel the need to fire your weapon.

[Bill DeShivs]

Man, the lawyers have you guys scared!
Just take the damned muffs off before the cops get there!

[guntotin_fool]

I would offer this advice, buy a combo gun, like the cabela's ad thats out this weekend. They have a couple of different shotguns which come with a slug or rifle sight barrel and a 26 or 28 hunting barrel. Changing the barrel on a combo gun is a three minute operation if you are slow. Its just a big finger nut and a little twist of the hand, but it lets you have a lot of flexibility for not a lot of money. Another option is just find a used gun and add the second barrel. Its a lot easier to find a good inexpensive used 870 and add a barrel than most would think.

Get the combo, then find a local trap or skeet range or just buy a 30 dollar thrower and find a place to practice breaking clay pigeons. Sure, they are nothing like what a bad guy will look like, but they are more like a bad guy than a big hanging outline on a target pulley at the range. Shoot up at least a couple of boxes of clays over the next couple of weeks, and you will find that the actions of the gun become second nature, loading will be a learned skill, tapping the safety off, bringing the gun up and shooting and racking the slide without thinking will all become rote. You can use almost any "target or Game" load for your practice, they will work just dandy.

THE LAST THING YOU WANT AT TWO AM WITH GLASS BREAKING AND YOUR WIFE OR KIDS SCREAMING IS YOU SITTING THERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO WORK THE GUN......OK got that? Its pretty simple, if your going to buy the gun, invest enough time and money in practice to be useful with it.

My two cents.

[Conceal Carry]

If you get prosecuted for the shooting, one of the issues that might arise (if you are charged with first-degree murder) is whether you premeditated the killing.

Who needs to testify about wearing ear protection?

[Scattergun Bob]

I appreciate the question about loss of hearing firing a shotgun indoors, Yes, there is a potential for hearing loss. I sincerely hope that all shooters use adequate ear protection while recreationally shooting.

However, gentleman, to suggest that you will have the time and focus to use ear protection @ 2AM in the morning startled awake, trying to use you sensors to identify "what's up" , locate and run your gun, find your aiming point, call the calvary, etc, is just crazy. Most folks do not do the simplest of tasks well in these circumstances, why would anyone advocate making it harder!!!!

Please, stay focused on the job at hand, it will be hard enough.

"Once the combat envelope wraps its' cold clammy arms around you, there is more than enough to think about besides how your weapon works, what condition of readiness IT IS IN, or where it shoots to."
Thinking about ear protection is not one of those!

Good Luck & Be Safe

[mikenbarb]

Ithaca MAG10.:D:D Realy put em down! Ears might ring a little but hell, Its only gonna take one shot. Dont have a tacked out gun and the lawyers will have nothing to hold up the jury except your basic hunting gun. Its not good when the prosecuter has a gun that looks like someone was waiting for the day that someone broke in and had an excuse to use it. I have a basic field gun for HD and its also the same I use for hunting birds. And remember that a sight is useless at night unless you have some light to see it. A good brite fiber optic one is fine and less to concentrate on getting lined up quickly. Point and be able to shoot that way accurate is the game, not getting the sights lined up perfectly.

[vitesse9]

Who needs to testify about wearing ear protection?

Funny thing about witnesses: they tend to tell the police what happened.

Here's one scenario. Police isolate wife and husband after husband shoots perp. Wife says "we heard a window break and my husband grabbed his hearing protection and his shotgun. Next thing I know, I hear two gun shots and I run out into the living room [and then she points to perp lying in a pool of his own blood]." John Detective is astute enough to note it in his report and take the gun and the ear muffs into evidence.

After 15 months of pretrial motions, defense lawyer preps his client to testify. They want the jury to understand how scared and surprised client was when he heard the window break. They have to convince the jury that client was in fear for his life and had no choice but to blow the perp's guts all over the living room with that eeeevil black shotgun with the sidesaddle, the jagged muzzle break, the laser and the flashlight and the bayonet lug and the pistol grip . . .

After Joe Homeowner's heart wrenching testimony, prosecutor calls wife as a rebuttal witness. She doesn't want to be there, but she has been subpoenaed and has been threatened with jail if she refuses to comply with the subpoena. The prosecutor asks her "before your husband grabbed his eeeevil black shotgun, did he grab anything else?" Wife doesn't want to answer but the judge instructs her to answer the question. She finally says "yes, he grabbed his hearing protection." The prosecutor then moves the $300 electronic ear muffs into evidence and, in closing arguments holds both the eeevil black gun and the ear muffs up as he passionately argues that shooter had just been chomping at the bit to waste some guy and the night poor Johnny perp broke into his house, he finally got the chance to do it. He bought all of the gear. He practiced, he even wrote on gun boards that he would shoot anyone who broke into his house and then repeated the old cliché about dragging the body inside before the cops arrive etc. [prosecutor then sits down, feeling like, if his case was crafted well enough, he gets another conviction under his belt, maybe gets a promotion, or at least gets praise and the "rush" of winning.]

Might not happen this way . . . but . . .

Once again, if you have time to grab the ear muffs, you have time to grab the phone and call 911. You should call 911 and take the hit to your hearing if it really comes to that.

[mikenbarb]

+++++1 vitesse9. Perfectly said and thats why I like my good ol' bird gun next to the bed.;) Its hard enough to defend yourself against gun stuff in New Jersey and they would have a field day with the tacticool guns in court, I have seen it happen here many times.

[shomstead]

Interesting scenario.

I'd say the couple in this story needed a better plan.

1. Wife should be armed in a corner behind cover on the phone with the cops with a clear shot at the door where a perp would come through.

2. The husband should never leave his partner. Never went through any tactical training where you split up in a situation as described! Husband should have taken a strong position in the same room in another corner behind cover with a clear shot on the door.


To those that say people are to paranoid about the legal system..well I personally know a woman whos life was crushed because some terd's family got a really good lawyer and sued her for wrongful death. The guy broke into her house in the middle of the night carrying rope and duck tape.
Oh she got off but after three years of litigation the woman was never the same. I almost threw up once when she told me she wished she just let him rape her.


Sorry this is so off topic. My point is do what you can to survive the encounter and worry about everything elses aftewards and for crying out loud if you have a gun for HD...HAVE A PLAN, take some defense courses

[rantingredneck]

Rem 870 or Mossberg 500/590. Whichever fits you best.

Pick up a good amount of 2 3/4" birdshot loads to familiarize yourself with the operation of the gun. Pick up a good quantity of 00 or #1 buckshot from a reputable ammunition company. Pattern the loads at ranges up to 25 yds.

I've had good results with Rem Managed Recoil, Federal Tactical with Flite Control, and standard Rem Express 9 pellet loads. Each shotgun will be different though.

[bbqbob51]

I would trust my Stoeger 20 ga Coachgun. Quick and simple and so easy to use. Has anyone ever shot rifled slugs through the Coachgun?

[cbm1948]

What ever brand of Shotgun you buy does not matter. But make sure it fits you well, I know you are not going to shoot skeet or trap with it. If the gun does not fit length of pull, pitch and drop at comb etc it will not be fun to shoot and this will inhibit or negate your practice secessions because it hurts, especially with magnum loads of buckshot or whatever. Trying to remember how it works after the gun has been sitting in the corner for a couple of years will not help you make smart decision in a crisis situation. Get it, spend quality times at the range or shooting venue you have available.
Clint

[wildcatkit52]

"Dont have a tacked out gun and the lawyers will have nothing to hold up the jury except your basic hunting gun. Its not good when the prosecuter has a gun that looks like someone was waiting for the day that someone broke in and had an excuse to use it."

So basically, you are saying not to use a Converted Saiga for HD?

[shomstead]

Use factory ammo as well. Heard of a case where a loader was using his own stuff in a hand cannon...hot of course...and they made a huge issue about it.

Its funny how a juries perception can be twisted just because of the way
something looks. 00 buck does the same thing in a 12 x 14 bedroom whether its in a SPA 12 or a 70 dollar single shot and lets face it..everytime you go to bed with that gun loaded and excessable the owners intent is the same. ((To protect his family))

All I care about is that my family is alive and unharmed, I'll deal with everything else later. I will have alot to explain though....perp will have one shotgun wound and most likely will have been double tapped by my wife's .357 when he walks through the door. He most likely will be limping when he gets to the bedroom as well. The dobie doesnt like uninvited guests.