WW I Shotgun use.

[Super-Dave]

I was reading a website yesterday on the weapons of ww I. Some where it mentioned that the british used long barreled shotguns in WW I.

The article said that they had special trained troops that would be in the trenches and as they would see grenades being thrown in the air from the german lines they would shoot them like pigepons.

Now I highly doubt this is true. Unfortunately I do not know which site I was on. If it is true this was a stroke of genius.

However, I do wonder if it is possible to explode a german "potato masher" grenade with some type of bird shot? I know that the "potato masher" did not have nearly as much metal surrounding the explosives as conventional grenades.

[cat9x]

I believe American Rifleman tested this many many many years ago using an 1897 Winchester and dummy Mills grenades. Im not 100% certain but I believe they found it viable.

[Scorch]

I have heard this story before, but never from anyone who actually saw or did it. It may have been one of those bright college boys that spent too much time thinking "sounds like a good idea", or it could have actually been put to the test. Grenades are a short-range weapon used by ground troops against other ground troops, so there is not a lot of time to look, analyze the situation, put down your rifle, pick up your shotgun, and take a shot. It sounds suspiciously like a fairy tale, but what do I know? I do know for a fact that the militaries on both sides used long-barreled shotguns to fire at low-flying strafing planes (WWI planes were made of wood and cloth with no armor, so buckshot would actually bring one down) and observation balloons. And of course, they used short-barreled shotguns for trench-clearing (that was pre-submachine guns).

[Dfariswheel]

I suspect this is one of those "urban legends" people write in books based on old war stories they heard after the fact.
As always, common sense says it didn't happen.

First, WWI trenches were rarely that close together. "No man's land" was usually several hundred yards wide, and almost always beyond hand grenade range.
As bad as it was, with the machine guns, snipers, and shelling, a trench line simply wouldn't be viable if it was possible to be constantly tossing grenades into it from a few yards away.
A line that close together would be overrun too quickly during a surprise attack, so they were much farther apart.

Hand grenades were used on night raids and attacks on trench lines.
You can't see a tossed hand grenade in the dark, and during an attack, no one had time to be waiting with a shotgun hoping for a one-in-a-million chance to shoot at a grenade hoping to deflect it.

Second, a potato masher type grenade is HEAVY.
Heavy enough that unless the grenade was literally only a few yards away, the shot would have spread enough that the few pellets that did hit would simply not have enough energy to deflect one.

Those long barreled shotguns that did see use in WWI were usually personnel weapons of aristocratic officers who took their bird guns into the trenches to use in the close range trench warfare raids.

[johnwilliamson062]

I think the reality of it is that probably a few of those anti air shotgunners were sitting their holding their peckers when attacked and happened to shoot a masher reflexively and deflect it. I doubt this was a carry two guns and swith deal or that it happened very often. Like the garand ping deaths, it probably happened a few times, but not regularly.

Of course if I was one of the guys standing next to the shotgunner who deflected a grenade, I would probably tell the story over every beer I drank for the rest of my life.

[Chipperman]

Second, a potato masher type grenade is HEAVY.
Heavy enough that unless the grenade was literally only a few yards away, the shot would have spread enough that the few pellets that did hit would simply not have enough energy to deflect one.


I agree with this. I don't think a grenade would explode if hit, and the energy required to deflect one is much more than a shotgun could provide.

[publius]

I always thought the tennis racquet would be a cool grenade defense.

[Death from Afar]

As a total aside, there is another urban myth that shotguns are an illegal weapon , and it comes from world war one. WHen the US arrived in FRance, they used the Winchester shotgun. The germs proclaimed that the use of such a "barbaric" weapon was a breach of the Hague convention, and threatened to excute any US service man caught with one. The US pointed out to the protecting power ( switzerland) that this was a bit rich coming from the fun filled folks who introduced flame throwers and poisened gas to the battlefield, and that the execution of US prisoners in this way would be a war crime and dealt with accordingly. Germany had basically collpased at this stage and it was taken no further.

So now you know.

[jrothWA]

he used a M97 for guard duty after poisoned hay was found mixed in the fodder for horses.
He indicated that some troops were able to deflect incoming gernades and also used for shooting hawks that were deployed against the carrier pigeons for messages.

Should have spent time with him and a recorder before "dementia" set in.

[Super-Dave]

shootig the carrier pigeons would have been realistic and very believable.

I suspect smart uits had shotguners for just such a mission.

[Jeff Mulliken]

Another myth....how would you know who's messages you were stopping, uniform insignia? And it's not like they were all over the place.

Those guys were way too busy digging, trying to stay warm and keep from getting trench foot...to spend time shooting down stray birds.

Jeff

[Chipperman]

how would you know who's messages you were stopping

German pigeons had little mustaches. :p

[Scattergun Bob]

No Sir, they had little pointy helmets and small mustaches:D.

[Mike U.]

no Sir, They Had Little Pointy Helmets And Small Mustaches.

:D:D lmao! :D:D

[New_Pollution1086]

The small mustaches where WW2. but the pigeons having little pointy helmets thats 100% true.

T