Shotgun for home protection

[MeNoLikeTofu]

My dad wants to buy me a pistol-grip shotgun when my family moves.:) He thinks a shotgun is the best for home protection and the pistol grip will allow me more control.
I have no significant experience with shotguns; I've only gone shooting with one twice. I would, of course, take it out to get comfortable with it.
What kind should I get and is this a good idea??

[Slopemeno]

Let me be the first: Ditch the pistol grip idea.

[RamSlammer]

I think you'll find a shoulder stock model much easier to shoot controllably. Either a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 would suit your needs. Both have versions with 18" barrels and extended magazine tubes that are designed for defense.

[any4xx]

Let me join in: Pistol grips make for a hard-to-control shotgun. Good only for bling or if you REALLY can't store a full length gun. Full length socks make for better control in all shooting positions.

[hogdogs]

Controllable in a variety of grips and disciplines is what a gun needs to be and only a regular full stock passes the test in my uses...
Brent

[LucifersPants]

The pistol grip is only gonna help you if you're interested in the 'badass' factor. There is no way it's going to give you more control of the weapon, especially if you're shooting powerful loads (00 buck or slugs). You need to brace for that recoil...you want to knock the other guy over, not yourself.

[dodgerfan175]

I went with Remington 870 because I've been hunting with an 870 since I was a teenager. I am familiar with it and can easily operate it in the darkness with no problems. If you do any bird shooting take the shotgun you use most and find a high capacity version of it.

[ISC]

A folding stock shotgun offers the advantages of both a pistol grip and a buttstock. Consider it.

[bilyspit]

Pistol Grip with a shoulder stock is a different matter and very worthy of consideration on a home defense style shotgun.

http://www.remington.com/images/products/firearms/shotgun/870_tac_sfiv_dr_410.jpg

[Cerick]

I would go with a regular stock, folding stock, or pistol grip and stock combo like bilyspit displayed. I bought a pistol grip for my 870 and took it off before even firing it, because of how awkward it felt to hold it. Looks cool though. Any of the 870 tac series shotguns would be great.

[nimbleVagrant]

Just don't forget the standoff on the muzzle. Never know when you'll have to breach your own front door.

[Al Thompson]

What's your budget? :) Left handed or right handed?

[Deegle]

+1 on the 870. I have this one (at least I will on Christmas morning).

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express_synthetic_7-round.asp

I'm also not a big fan of the pistol grip. Yeah they do look cool. But I wouldn't want a pistol grip gun (even one with a standard stock) paraded in front of a jury should the DA decide to prosecute me for merely defending my family.

[Cold_DeadHands]

I'm with the rest, Remington 870 and forget about the pistol grip. ;)

[MeNoLikeTofu]

Al: I'm right-handed. As far as the budget goes, I'm not really sure. Like I said, my dad wants to get it for me. I would think about $500 would be max.

Thanks for all your opinions. I never knew the pistol grip was so not popular!:)

[MeNoLikeTofu]

Oh, and it sounds like Deegle is going to have a very Merry Christmas!!:D:D

[johnwilliamson062]

In my opinion the best HD shotgun is the Mossberg 500 persuader in Marinecote. It is slightly lighter than the 870 or even the other Mossberg 500s. If you do not regularly shoot/enjoy cleaning your guns that shotgun should hold up slightly better stuffed in a closet better than any I have found near its price. $400 at dicks for the 5+1. The gun looks mean, so you won't need that PG.

That being said, if you pick up the 870 and it "feels right," you would be much better off with the 870. I have personally found that people who go to a store or range and try out both prefer the 500, as most find the ergonomics to be better. Being able to always see the safety and operate the slide release with hand on the trigger is preferred by most. Those who start with the 870 stick with it, which leads me to believe the differences are less than they seem to me.

One day I will try out a pistol grip then I will be able to weigh in on that part of it. I have to say shooting a slug or 00 buck from a shouldered shotgun isn't exactly cheery, so I doubt pistol grip would be much fun.

[hogdogs]

For me, the most versatility is with a plain stock. It allows me the most positions of hold with the fewest transitional hand grips. It is during these required transitions when your gun is most vulnerable. From shouldered to under the arm pit (stock is gripped by arm like a bone in a bulldogs mouth) To hip shooting position, your hand makes fewer moves and less radical ones leaving the gun in less secure grip.
Also the Full/Pg AR type stocks may be enjoyed by a few... It is not the look I worry over. It is the fact that my hand has further been moved from the controls. On my Mossberg 500 with the beloved tang located safety lever the only stock that leaves it at easiest reach is the full regular stock. For my slide release I also love the regular stock and the 870 users have to confirm or deny the hand position relations as I am not familiar with them high highfalutin pump 'em up carry-o-bean shootin' guns...
Brent

[popeyespappy]

Get a 20 Gauge Remington 870 express. The 18” barrel with 2 shot extended magazine model can be bought new for less than $400. If you want a shoulder stock with a pistol grip put a Speedfeed 3 on it for about $100.

If it only going to be for home defense and if you plan on staying in Wyoming pay the $200 for your tax stamp and have the barrel shortened to 14” and take the extension off.

[wjh2657]

One more point on pistol grip stock for HD shotgun. The pistol grip can only really be fired from the hip position. You are not going to "spray and pray" at HD distances <25 Feet. Your pattern is going to be about the size of a big fist and the weapon has to be aimed or pointed carefully to hit the target. It may be a shock to some, but you can definitely miss with a shotgun inside a house! Stay with regular stock and keep the gun simple. You want to keep it balanced and easy to swing. There are some fold ups that are said to work, but my experience is that you will need an expensive high end foldup with recoil suppression to make it work. Cheap fold-ups are junk, I've tried them and I am back to the regular stock my Mossy 12 gauge came with. A nice High Viz bead is probably all most people need. I don't use side saddle ammo loaders as I have 5 extra shells in a zip-top baggy that I dump in my bathrobe when I need extra rounds. Again I try to keep gun "slick" and unencumbered for use. Eaze of use trumps ultra cool "tactical" show off stuff for me.

Older guy= loss of memory and skills= simple drill

Pump shotguns and Revolvers!

[T.A.Sharps]

I like pistol grips better just for the way it holds to my shoulder...

But who is going to be fussing over the grip when someone has broken into your home and in pointing a gun at you??????

[Katrina Guy]

No pistol grip, no bayonets, no flashlights, gps satellite micro dishes, no remote control on my Mossberg Persuader...and I can access it and it's controls in a heartbeat...it doesn't look as cool as some shotguns posted in here, but it is easily and immediately accessible possibly faster then the cooler looking ones with the tons of add ons.

[shurshot]

The pistol grip idea is great, provided you are mounting it on a .410 shotgun. Anything bigger, even w/birdshot, will be hard to control and aim, just as the previous posters have mentioned. I have fired .410, 20 and 12 bores w/pistol grips. :eek: I'll take a nice walnut stock, thank you!!!!

[hogdogs]

In regards to recoil... that is simply mind over matter...
I have many of times (not 50% I bet) hit clays with my 18 inch 20 gauge with PGO and light loads. Many of those were second shot hits...
So if you don't mind recoil... it don't matter. But it does take 100 times more ammo to be proficient with a PGO than a regular stock or stock with PG. But to me the regular stock is better gripped in hip shooting or that stance (forgive my redneck ignorance) where the stock is under your upper arm with a firm grip.
Brent

[scorpion_tyr]

Shotgun for home defense? GREAT idea!! None better!

Pistol grip for said shotgun for better control? Not a good idea at all. It might give you more control until you try to aim it, pull the trigger, or rack the slide. A full stock is the best and only option IMO.

What shotgun? I suggest a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 or 590. Either is a fine weapon. Just figure out which safety and slide release locations you like best.

[Deegle]

Oh, and it sounds like Deegle is going to have a very Merry Christmas!!

Indeed! I'll try to post pics of my new member of the family once it is removed from the thin paper trappings in which it now resides.

[1911rocks]

At this point in time I'd say the consensus is no on the pistol grip alone (I'm not talking about shoulder stock with pistol grip). Now the gauge. For years I was hardcore about 12ga or nothing. Until I did a combat shotgun course. WOW what an eye opener!!! Like my old Gunny said " It's all about steel on target kid"
My Remington 870 12ga was replaced with an 870 20ga. Lighter, better feel, very controllable, recoil light enough that I will practice like Hell hath no tomorrow. There are plenty of Buckshot loads and slugs too. Furthermore, almost everyone in the house. This last sentence is not to invite the inane children and guns discussion.

[Gunfighter123]

Hello,
You should have him look at a Mossberg 500 Combo ---- last week I just bought one for $319 + Tax etc. -- $339 out the door. It is Moss. stock number 50579 ---it is a 20" brl.,bead front sight , 7 rd. tube{8 rd. total} and it comes with a pistol grip kit included.
This way you would have a full stock SG and could try it with a pistol grip---not very good except VERY close range.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Jailbird123/DSC01678.jpg

[nemoaz]

Furthermore, almost everyone in the house. This last sentence is not to invite the inane children and guns discussion.
Yet, it's not a sentence. :) Everyone in the house can shoot the 20g?

Just wondering, how does your 20g compare to a 12g with reduced recoil loads? I'm currently 20g only, but I'd like to have something my wife could handle a little easier. Even considering one of those 410 deals once I realized that a 410 3" has 5 OOO buck.

[USMC3521]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/AGarnes/CIMG0934.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/AGarnes/CIMG0935.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/AGarnes/CIMG0936.jpg

Here are pics of my mossy 500 HD gun... It's the best of both worlds:D

[miekelle]

there are a few shotguns that there are accesories for!
heres a list of shotguns

first we have the mossberg 500 this is a special mod with an awesome mag

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/diannefeinsteinmemorialassaultshotgun.jpg

This is a mossberg 590A1


http://consumermaven.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/mossbergm590a1.jpg

we have the 500 persuader

http://www.leesgunshop.com/images/mossberg/500Presuade8.jpg


Next up we have the remingtons

870 tactical


http://www.borelliconsulting.com/evals/guns/images/rem8701.jpg

1100

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/sctigerjeep/shotgun2.jpg

[Chuckusaret]

I have a Mossberg 500 Cruiser 12ga 20" barrel with a pistol grip and its design fits its function, Home Defense. The average shooter that does practice can be as effective with the pistol grip as with a full stock. I have a 12 year old grandson that is deadly with this gun at any distance with bird, buck or slugs. Practice, Practice with all guns is a must.

[wnycollector]

Check out the mossberg maverick 88 security. It has a 20" cyl barrel and is 7+1 of 12ga good-ness:D Mine has ~ 1500 trouble free rounds through it for only $200. For your $500 budget you can get the shotgun and 500 rounds of fiocchi low recoil 00 buck!

[rsh32crew]

My Charles Daly Field is around 300 bucks and would do the trick. It's semi auto, so you wouldn't even have to know how to pump it (as in the 870). By the way, that tactical 870 is bad ass.

[hogdogs]

rsh32crew, While I would consider an auto for HD I will NEVER use one as my ONLY HD gun. First off the auto has to be maintained to a different level to remain nearly reliable function compared to tapping a pump on the wall to dislodge the mud from the muzzle to remain an insanely reliable shooting platform. Second aspect is again in reliability. I am just an average shooter but I have always had decent trouble shooting skills and very high level of the workin' on stuff genes in my dna. If SNAFU occurs with your gun you have less than stellar conditions to work on it and little time to conduct the fix.
Brent

[omkhan]

Pistol grip with folding stock works great IMO.
Akkar Karatay 12 GA http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39894&stc=1&d=1230022980

[cnutco]

I have 870 with pistol grip... That being said, I plan on getting a folding stock next year. I just like the idea of having an option!!!

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/930/rem870uk2.jpg

[Glasstream15]

I have an H&R Pardner Pump. 12 gauge, 18 1/2", 5+1 and under $200. About 200 rounds and never a hicup. The 12 gauge pump is such a stable design, been around, like forever, that any decently made 12 gauge will function all the time. While the H&R may not be as pretty or as nicely finished as more expensive guns, it will put a bunch of little lead balls down range in a hurry.

[Old Guard Dog]

Can't beat a Mossburg 500 or Rem 870 12 ga. with an 18" barrel. What is just as important is the load used. I am searching for a milder load that will deliver less recoil, and not accidentally hit a neighbor through a wall. I don't think 00 buckshot is necessary inside a house.

I have tried Aguila 12 ga. Mini-buckshot which is only 1 1/2" long with a dual load ((7- #4B, 4- #1B). Great load, but will not cycle reliably being that short. I think I will develop my own based on a 2 1/2" hull and use some filler. This will be able to be shot by anyone in the household without hurting their shoulder.

Any known modifications to the gun to get a shorter shell to cycle reliably?

Also consider first round less-than-lethal load, followed by the real one if needed. Might help with the wrongfull death lawsuit from the grieving family of the poor bad guy!!!

[Katrina Guy]

the first one with a whimp load followed by the real McCoy, that ought to sit well with the grieving law suit game, that assuming you have the chance to make said follow up shot.
Trying to imagine what an autopsy photo of two 12 gauge hits would look like.

[Cold_DeadHands]

Having birdshot or the like as first round isn't that great in my book. I have no neighbors close by and therefor don't care about over-penetration. If I ever have to shoot at somebody I will shoot to kill. I do however only load 5 buckshot shells in the tube and have some birdshot and slugs next to my shotgun. The Birdshot is really only for shooting snakes and practice in my house.

[hogdogs]

If you are justified to brandish then you are justified to shoot WITH LETHAL FORCE You are justified to STOP the offender but you are never justified to intentionally inflict injury It is a weird thing huh? We americans have a right to kill but not intentionally maim...
Brent

[556A2]

1. Go buy a 18"-20" Remington 870 or Mossberg 500/590 with a standard stock.

2. Buy several different brands of 00 buckshot to pattern, and some birdshot to practice with.

3. Go to the range, pattern your 00 buckshot for your HD load, and shoot the birdshot at targets for practice.

4. Clean your shotgun, and load the magazine with 00 buckshot.

That is all that you will ever need for a basic defensive shotgun, and with defensive shotguns basic is better.

[Glasstream15]

If I pull the trigger, I am trying to incapacitate. Birdshot won't do that unless you aim for the face. 3 X 4 buck followed by 2 X 00 buck. My 12 gauge is the only gun I keep an empty chamber, unless there is a major storm. Then there is one in the pipe.

[johnwilliamson062]

My first round is less than lethal rubber pellets. If they don't stop or run after that I will let them have #4 or 00 buck, which ever I happen to have loaded.

[kipnita]

I have a Maverick 88 and think it is a great gun.

When it was purchased it had the pistol grip which I have since replaced with an ATI tactical stock. MUCH better control/accuracy with a full stock over the pistol grip.

Sure, the pistol grip looks cool bbbbbbbbbbbuuuuuuuuuutttttt, when your hineys on the line you're gonna wish you had a full stock on your HD shotgun!!!!!!

[Mike U.]

My goodness! I can almost see the faces of the older real-deal shotgunners cringing and then smacking themselves in the forehead at all of the bad ideas heaped into this one thread. :rolleyes:

Less than lethal loads? Are you kidding me?!
I wonder how much some of you have thought about this. Bad guy may be drugged up and quite immune to pain stimulus. Shoot him with rubber balls and he might just shrug it off and show you what the term 'lethal weapon' really means. He then pulls or uses his already at-the-ready weapon and kills you deader'ndead. What happens to your wife and kids after you are incapacitated and bleeding out on your bedroom floor? After he's done with them, he has a new shotgun for next week's adventure. :eek:
Less than lethal loads? Puh-leeze! Leave that stuff to the LEOs who have back-up ready to use a more lethal weapon or weapons in case the "less than lethal" trick doesn't work.
I know...I know... We've all seen COPS where the shotgun wielding cop shoots the bad guy with bean bags out of a 12 ga. and BG folds like a house of cards. Do you seriously think there isn't back up ready to give BG severe lead poisoning if he doesn't fold?


Shooting to "incapacitate"? Are you kidding me?!
Kiss everything you own goodbye and say hello to the poorhouse after a successful lawsuit introduces you to your new lifestyle...abject poverty. You think your gonna win a case where bad guy gets rolled into court in his wheelchair, I.V. bags and oxygen tank followed by a parade of doctors testifying to his pain and suffering and destroyed life which is the direct result of you "shooting to incapacitate"?
Don't think for a minute you won't get sued for "shooting to incapacitate".
You most certainly WILL. :eek:
Who's gonna pay for the lawyers? You.

Pistol grip only shotguns? Are you kid...oh wait! That's so obvious it doesn't need further comment. :rolleyes:

[akr]

I do believe the 12 ga. shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot is the BEST HD weapon, BUT how many of you have ever fired a shotgun off in the house? Those of you who say noise and blast doesn't matter in a life and death situation.......well, it does matter if it blows your eardrums out and disorientates you.

[Cold_DeadHands]

try a Silencer like in "No Country for Old Men". That thing rocks. :D

[akr]

LOL. I hadn't seen that one, but now I am interested. I am an old man, so maybe I was meant to see it.

[troy_mclure]

ive shot many shot shells of in a house, both shoot houses in the army, and a abandoned house when i was a teen.

it IS loud, but it isn't incapacitating or disorienting.

[Slopemeno]

Yep. The shotgun is probably the least-loud choice you can make under the circumstances.

[Katrina Guy]

Well said, don't forget in the court room visual of the incapacitated "victim" with the oxygen mask and IV tubes etc etc that accompany him, don't leave out his attorney parading in front of the jury the Termainator / Rambo looking firearm, complete with bayonets and flashlights and extra shells on the stock etc etc.
People really ought to give some thought not only on what HD ammo to choose but also on how their firearm "looks". That's the subject for another thread, point being of course the difference between a defensive (looking) weapon and one that a jury can easily view as an OFFENSIVE (looking) weapon. For that reason plus I don't want a cumbersome gun, I elect not to add anything on the tactic-cool side, to my shotgun.
Back on the topic of this thread, Brent said it well also regarding justification.
Listen and learn people, this is 21st Century America, not the Andy Griffith show.

[Chuckusaret]

I always say KISS, but I have also strayed and tricked out a Mossberg 500 Cruiser, only to strip it back to original purchased configuration. Not only was it to clumsy, I thought of the idiots that would think it was an assult weapon if I ever had to go to court with it.

[1911rocks]

I want to validate some earlier post.

1) Shooting indoors shotgun or not. For those who have fired weapons within a confined space without hearing protection ( battle rifles, shotguns, SAWs, etc). The first trigger pull is a surprise! NOT DEBILITATING!! However, if you've never been there don't wait until dark thirty, when you're half asleep and scared. Find an old abandoned house, a barn, an indoor range to try it. Remember, take everyone along that may fire the weapon under those circumstances.

2) Less than lethal....less than smart. True LE persons use LTL ammunition. However, they in immediate access to Lethal firepower.

3) Tueller Drill http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill. Intruders who break in early in the morning/late at night understand that there will more than likely be a confrontation. They are at an advantage. They are awake, mentally prepared, and typically have an accomplice. Couple that with the probability that in most homes of less than 4000sq/ft will take less than 3sec to get to the occupied areas you can see that the Defender is working uphill. One last thing. In two story homes people will most likely keep HD weapons close to where they sleep, BG know this. When the BG are interviewed later regarding break-in at 9pm - 12M they will often state the fact they had surveyed the habits of the homeowner and knew he slept upstairs and felt there was less likelihood of the homeowner being armed if they caught the homeowner downstairs. Moral of item 3 ...where you are is where a weapon should be. IMO

[PDBreske]

You want the best option for keeping your home safe? Get a dog.

Big dog, small dog, any dog is the best deterrent to someone thinking of entering your home. My dogs lose their minds when they hear a noise in the neighborhood, and there is no way I'd want to walk into a house with that kind of racket coming from the other side of the door.

I also have a bone-stock Browning BPS High Capacity with 00 buck x 7 and a Springfield XD45 near the bed. If the bad guy gets that far it means he's already killed the dogs and I will just start shooting through walls to end his life ASAP.

[Cold_DeadHands]

I agree with that - dogs are a great alarm system and make BG's think twice about doing something they shouldn't.
I have BIG German Shepherds & a Doberman with a real nasty attitude outside...one of them always running the place. Inside I have a Pit bull and Lab mix. By the time anybody would get close to the house I would have enough time to get armed & have a smoke :D while I watch him / them coming to the front door. If the door opens there are 7 buckshot loads and 17 rounds of 40S&W waiting for the intruder(s).
If it were me...I'd pick a different house to break in, one w/o dogs and with less lights on outside.

[Amendtwo]

As suggested by nemoaz, I do have a .410 for home defense - Mossberg pump with pistol-grip stock. It is light and controllable, even with just the pistol-grip, and it would be more user-friendly for my wife than one of my handguns. With either of the S&B buckshot loads, I believe it would be effective at bedroom/hallway distances.

[T.A.Sharps]

A 410 for HD?

Wow.

I hope you at least mean slugs???