10 Mm That Much Advantage Over 40 Sw.

[mrt949]

Is the cost of up grading to 10 mm worth it .if you already have a 40 sw.

[goodspeed(TPF)]

For what purpose?

[Mello2u]

The hottest commercial ammo I can find is from Double Tap:

Caliber : .40 S&W
Bullet : Speer Gold Dot
The 180gr Gold Dot @ 1100fps from a Glock 23!
1050fps 441 ft/lbs from a 3.5"bbl.
1140fps 520 ft/lbs from a 4.5"bbl.
Ballistics : 180gr. @ 1100fps / 484 ft/lbs- Glock 23 (4.0"bbl)

Caliber : 10mm auto
Bullet : 180 gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
Ballistics : 1300fps 676ft/lbs- Glock 20
Glock 29 - 1240fps

Caliber : 10mm auto
Bullet : 200gr Controlled Expansion JHP
Ballistics : 1250fps / 694ft lbs. muzzle - Glock 20
1083fps / 521 ft lbs 100yds Glock 20
Glock 29 - 1195fps

Momentum of the 40 S&W = 1140 x 180= 205,200
Momentum of the 10 mm = 1300 x 180= 234,000
Momentum of the 10 mm = 1250 x 200= 250,000

One additional option with the 10mm is heavier bullet weights in commercial ammo.

You decide.

[mrt949]

I was thinking of getting a dan wesson down the road.but already have m@p 's fullsize and compact in 40 sw. mainly for cc.

[Pappy John]

Double Tap creates ammo that realizes the 10mm's potential.....like 165 gr loads over 700 ft/lb.

Hand loaders can do the same.

Many commercial manufacturers make 10mm ammo that is really not that much different than their .40 offerings.

[juliet charley]

The trouble with DT 10mm is they use bullets designed for optimum performance at .40 S&W velocities. Pushing those bullets to the velocities to which DT pushes them usually results in less than optimum on-target performance. There is a whole lot more to effectiveness than MV/ME (and that is not even addressing issues like shootability--i. e., speed and accuracy of follow-up shots, recoil, muzzle blast, etc.).the

[Wasabi]

Wo. :confused: That's the first time I heard that about DT. Any evidence of that or just personal experience?

[jgcoastie]

I've got about two cases of DoubleTap 10mm ammo and I have been nothing but pleased with both it's accuracy and it's performance in inanimate objects such as tree stumps, ice/snow berms, water jugs, etc...

I'm not sure that many people would be able to provide an objective viewpoint of DT's performance as not many of us TFL folks shoot people on a daily basis and I'm unaware of any official testing by any LE Agency or independent 3rd party of DT ammo. I'm also unaware of any LEA that issues DT ammo...

If anyone could provide supporting data for juliet_charley's opinion, I would be very interested to know it's content and source. I understand that not everyone can shoot the 10mm accurately, quickly, and so on... But those of us that can have a much more powerful handgun than 9mm/.40S&W/.45ACP/.357SIG shooters. Hands down, no if's and's or but's. That is a fact.

[Maromero]

... and the ? still stands: For what purpose?

For SD against 2 or 4 legged animals, trail gun, night stand gun, ext.

[ZeSpectre]

A friend was having some minor issues with his Witness so I tweaked it up for him and then took it to the range to function test. All he had was some of the top-end Double Tap so he gave me a box of 50 and said "have at it".

I was actually kinda surprised at first with the 10mm (my first time shooting it) but I'm a fan of the .40 S&W and have shot a lot of .357 magnum in my time so I settled in pretty quickly and produced a nice grouping.

I'll have to tell you though, 30 rounds of that hot Double Tap shot pretty rapid fire to test the gun's function and my wrists were basically done for the day :D

10mm is a beast even in something as heavy as a witness. I'd hate to see it in a lighter gun!

[mrt949]

It will fill the void for concealed carry . i have 357mag and 40 sw .38 .32 22.

[Maromero]

mrt949:

A ccw is a very personal thing. I suggest to pic the platform first then the caliber. Remember you want a small and light weapon for comfort & convinience. A 10mm in a small weapon can be a wallop.

[a7mmnut]

I won't ever get rid of my 10mm. Then again; I won't ever carry it concealed, either. My old stock of Hornady 155's are marked "1410 fps" right on the back of the box, and they feel like it. Look up the new Hornady 155's, and you'll see they're marked "1286 fps". Thanks a lot, wussies. ;) The 200 grainers are where you see it really move out front. You can't do that with a "shorty forty", but they do carry a whole lot easier. The very same thing is true for my revolvers. A great 6" .357 mag. is totally awesome to shoot all day long, but do you want to use a fire-breathing dragon that pulls off your pants for you for CCW? "Where's the beef?" -7-

[Water-Man]

For CC it would not be worth it.

[Mello2u]

Unless you have joint sensitivities, I don't see how shooting lots of 10mm ammo can cause pain.
About 15 years ago when I was in my forties, I shot about 1500 rounds of 155gr @ 1350fps while attending Gunsite going through the 499 course (five and 1/2 days). A couple of the people commented that they noticed the muzzle blast standing next to me on the firing line. That load sure put down the Pepper Poppers fast. It helped me hit at ranges over 25 yards because of its flatter trajectory too. I impressed one of the instructors by knocking down a Pepper Popper that was set backwards (it was not supposed to fall over) at about 40 yards.

[a7mmnut]

Mello2U,

I also forgot to add that just like my very first .357 revolver experience was, the 10mm is at the top of my list on the autopistol side for a "must have" in a young shooter's life. :D -7-

[Mello2u]

a7mmnut,

My first purchase of a center fire handgun was a S&W model19 in 357 magnum. Now, my choice for personal defense is Colt Delta Elite in 10mm auto.

[B.N.Real]

Thirty percent more power.

Does it recoil thirty percent more?

Or do you 10 mm owners find shooting your 10mm handguns ,not that bad.

I'm used to shooting a 357 mag no problem.

10mm reads like the big dog on the hill as far as semi autos go for cartridges that are commercially availible.

[ZeSpectre]

Unless you have joint sensitivities, I don't see how shooting lots of 10mm ammo can cause pain.
It's simple. Some people (myself included) just don't take heavy recoil well.

Fully loaded 10mm can have a pretty stiff recoil and anyone considering a 10mm should be aware of that. Might be no problem or might be a deal breaker.

To my surprise, I was actually fine...until I did an as-fast-as-I-could-shoot-the-gun function test.

The cumulative effects of of slamming through three mag changes without a letup left me with a definite tremble in my hands by the time I was done (but I verified that the gun would now run :D ).

[thirdeagle]

The 10mm is well worth it and, in my opinion, is probably one of the best calibers available for a defensive pistol. After years of shooting everything I could get my hands on and just about every caliber imaginable, I settled on a 3rd gen. Glock 29. I wish I had found both the 10mm and the G29 sooner.

[jmr40]

Doubletap's 200 grain hardcast semi-wadcutters are not coming apart at 10mm velocities and I doubt any of the other heavier rounds are either.

The 10 is not for everyone. To be honest rounds such as the 45, 40, and even 9mm are going to get the job done on humans about as well as any handgun round will.

I like my G 20 as my outdoors hiking gun where there is the possibility of 2 or 4 legged predators. With the best loads I have a 357 mag equivilent gun that is lighter, smaller, more accurate in rapid fire, softer recoiling and holds 16 rounds vs 6. The 10 is a niche gun, but it fills a niche in my needs.

[AZAK]

10 Mm That Much Advantage Over 40 Sw.
Is the cost of up grading to 10 mm worth it .if you already have a 40 sw.

Glock 29 has been my favorite CCW for about the last eight years. Great pistol! I have been trying to find something that I like better for all of those eight years, including other pistols in 10mm, and have not found one that I like better, yet; and I have bought, sold, traded a number in the last eight years. Eleven rounds of 600 - 700 ft/lbs in commercial ammo, not even considering hand loading.

I do like other 10mm pistols. Colt Delta Elite is a really nice 10mm in a 1911 platform. I am familiar with the "original"; however, the latest release looks almost identical to the "original". Little bigger and heavier not as comfortable CC compared to the G29; at least for me, although 1911 Government can be carried CCW, again not as comfortably for me, but do on occasion.

Fusion makes some beautiful 10mm 1911s, these I have yet to try/buy. One of these is right up at the top of my next list.

Dan Wessons in 10mm look really good. Playboypequin has done reviews on these.

Lots more made by different manufacturers out there.

Finding ammo and reloading components can be a bit trickier. They exist, at a higher price, and at a scarcer rate. Most people can not just wander down to their local gun shop and pick up a bunch of 10mm ammo and/or brass. I know that I have not ever been able to. A couple of boxes, and ordered brass is pretty typical for me.

Is it worth it? I think so. Apparently so do a lot of others, as the cartridge is still alive and kicking! (With more guns and choices of ammo than a decade ago.) But, not so many that it is now taking up huge amounts of space on ammo shelves in gun shops.

Pretty close to a .41mag in a semi-auto, especially with hand loading. Can be very accurate, flat shooting, really not that bad recoil, high cap mags availiable (A G20 15 round mag works in a G29) with the ability to move pretty big bullets 200 grain along at some pretty impressive speeds. What is not to like?

If you want cheaper and less recoil, shoot a .22lr. I normally shoot five different hand gun cartridges and my favorites are the .22lr and the 10mm.

I can't directly compare a 10 to a 40. I have only had one .40 and did not like it; why bother when I had 10mm?

[gruntrus]

10 Mm That Much Advantage Over 40 Sw.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is the cost of up grading to 10 mm worth it .if you already have a 40 sw.



Yes, but that's just my 2 cents. I like the G23 and will keep it, but the 10mm does fill that open spot. And it's just plain fun.

[Pappy John]

B.N Real
Thirty percent more power.

Does it recoil thirty percent more?

Or do you 10 mm owners find shooting your 10mm handguns ,not that bad.

I don't know how the recoil feels in the 1911 frame or the Witness. I've never tried those pistols in 10mm, but it's fine in the Glocks due to the width of the grip that spreads the recoil out across more of your hand. Perhaps the minute flex of the polymer frame takes some of the sting out also.

My 2nd generation G20 did require an aftermarket barrel to allow me to reuse the brass. I followed it up with a 3rd gen G29 that didn't wreck the brass so much, so I kept that stock barrel in place. I don't know if the chamber specs are tighter in that one, or it's just that the shorter barrel releases the pressure fast enough to stop the deformation from occurring.

[Nanuk]

It is like compairing a 357 to a 41 Mag.

[Sevens]

I don't know if the chamber specs are tighter in that one, or it's just that the shorter barrel releases the pressure fast enough to stop the deformation from occurring.
My 3rd Gen G29 (this pistol was built in October '08) will still deform 10mm brass, but I would say that it's less than previous generations. I think there might also be something to the theory you put forth about barrel length.

All I know is that I've had plenty of once-fired Glock'd up 10mm brass in my possession and though my G29 simply doesn't do it as much, it does still do it.

It hasn't kept me from reloading this brass. And my loads are not nuclear and are under max loads. But they are NOT weak, watered down wimp loads, like Federal Hydra-Shock 10mm. When I let off a round powered by Blue Dot, you damn well know about it! :eek: :D

[jgcoastie]

It is like compairing a 357 to a 41 Mag.

^ Probably the best analogy I've heard yet.^

My stock G20SF caused brass bulging as well. I ordered an EFK National Match barrel and they bulge no more. I can shoot lead through it too...

[Stevie-Ray]

Now, my choice for personal defense is Colt Delta Elite in 10mm auto.That's a pretty nice choice

Another CDE owner, for over 20 years.

[Mello2u]

Stevie-Ray


Now, my choice for personal defense is Colt Delta Elite in 10mm auto.
That's a pretty nice choice

Another CDE owner, for over 20 years.

My Delta Elite is DE085xx, don't know when it was made but I got one as soon as I could. I'm guessing in 1987 or 1988.

I have shot over 5,000 rounds through both the Glock 20 and the Colt Delta Elite (much more through the Colt). They are both reliable.

Comparing the Glock to the Colt; I find the Colt to be more accurate, to have a better trigger, and I can shoot it faster with the same level of accuracy.

They are both great guns for law enforcement duty (carried the Glock on duty for 5 years) or self-defense (carried for about 20). The department did not like 1911 carried cocked and locked.

[nutty ned]

This thread stayed with pistols, however, in a 50 oz revolver the recoil is not bad, like some .357 ammo. It is accurate and when one switches to 180 gr .40S&W the point of aim remains the same.
The revolver gives a lot of options from hunting to SD to plinking with all the
different loadings available.
Concealing on ones person may be more difficult, though, if in a vehicle of some sort it is not hard.

[G-man 26]

Oh yeah,

We got to finally try the 6" barrel in the g-20 last week. Not scientific, I know, but a guy with the 4" 44mag was seriously annoyed that I was knocking as much c**p out of the steel gongs as he was. And when his slow six rounds were over, I rapid fired the rest in my magazine into the mid-range gong (15yds). If you want the thing for sd/hd, I don't recommend it. If you want to hunt pig, or just be a jerk at the range:D, I think it's worth it.

[Speed_Racer]

'jmr40
"I like my G 20 as my outdoors hiking gun where there is the possibility of 2 or 4 legged predators. With the best loads I have a 357 mag equivilent gun that is lighter, smaller, more accurate in rapid fire, softer recoiling and holds 16 rounds vs 6. The 10 is a niche gun, but it fills a niche in my needs.


--What 2 legged predators are you concerned about, since you already said 9mm will be fine for humans.

After reading the thread on defense against bears, and the guy who LIVES in Alaska saying he carries a 10mm, I will one day buy one.