Is your garage part of you home?

[SQUAREKNOT]

A question came up tonight. If a BG invades your home and you have a legal right to use deadly force to defend you home. Is your attached garage considered (legally) your home? Or is it a separate place legally?
Personally I consider anyone that illegally and forceably enters my home a deadly threat and that includes the garage.
Anyone?

[hoytinak]

In Texas it is (even if detached) as is your vehicle. Check your state laws.

[SQUAREKNOT]

There is no precedence as the Castle law just came into being and the new
law does not have a real definition.

[Erik]

"Is your attached garage considered (legally) your home?"

I vote for yes and would be interested in hearing arguments, especially those supported by case law, to the contrary.

[Christchild]

I'd consider (despite any law) any part of my property as a part of my "home" as long as it's on the same premises. And PHYSICALLY attached to my dwelling... You can bet Your last meal that I'll be considering it my home and acting accordingly.

I've had some folks tell me that I'm a little "Gung-Ho", but I oppose that. Some/Most (not sure which) states consider Your vehicle an extension of Your home. I'll protect both/all as such... Even more when there's wife and/or kids present or involved.

Always, check Your local laws for the details. I've went as far as to go to the Sheriff's Office myself and speak to Sheriff's directly concerning what's legal or not. I believe that most Law Enforcement honor a citizen inquiring of the laws.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Nobody can answer this question without knowing what state you reside in since the answer to you question depends on state law. Second, I guarantee there is relevant precedent on the issue.

Texas law protects a "habitation" as defined by Section 30.01 of the Penal Code. Whether a detached garage would qualify would depend on whether the garage was appurtenant to the habitation. Texas courts have construed this definition of a habitation to include both attached and detached garages in past cases; but it would still depend on the specific facts.

[freakshow10mm]

My property is my property.

[dogtown tom]

:confused::confused::confused:

Of course an attached garage is part of your house. While some may not count the square footage of a garage as "living space" it most definitely is part of your house.

I've never seen a house for sale that had in it's description "the attached garage is not part of this house".:rolleyes:

[maestro pistolero]

A threat is a threat whether at the grocery store or your shower. Possession may be unconstitutionally infringed, but so far, legitimate self defense hasn't.

Therein lies the quandry: The government supports self-defense, but sometimes contends that denying the right to the means to it is acceptable.

[orangello]

Maybe that recent case with the sword-wielding college kid who had to hack a lurker/attacker in his garage will provide some more guidance.

[thallub]

Oklahoma's "make my day law" was written after six elderly OK citizens were killed over Christmas. The case that drove the law home was that of a doctor who shot a home invader in his garage. The doctor got sued and the legislature wrote the law.


http://www.oksenate.gov/news/National_Media/nm20041031.html

"Over that Christmas, we had six people in their 70s and 80s killed, bludgeoned to death by burglars in their bedrooms. How were they meant to defend themselves if they could not legally resort to lethal force?" he said.

Giving householders immunity from criminal and civil action was also inspired by Dr Sommer's experience. Although he was taken to the police station and interrogated, the District Attorney read the public mood over the series of deadly burglaries and decided against charging him with the killing of the burglar, Russell Bryant, 19.

..................................

"The purpose of the law is to protect the victim of crime who defends his home and his family against unlawful intrusion from any criminal prosecution or civil action," Sen Ford said last week.

"We considered it outrageous that someone who protects his home and family should suffer. Our law says you can use any force, including deadly force, to defend your home."

It has been an unqualified success. Since the Make My Day Law came into force, burglary has declined by almost half in Oklahoma. In 1987, there were 58,333 cases; in 2000, just 31,661.

While crime rates throughout America fell in the 1990s, Make My Day supporters point to a second statistic in Oklahoma they say proves the impact of the new law: while burglary rates plunged, other forms of theft stayed constant. In 1988, there were 96,418 cases, in 2000, 96,111.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Just to clarify, typically you need to show three things of your attacker to justify the use of lethal force in self-defense:

1. Ability to inflict death or serious bodily injury (Ex: Possess a knife)
2. Opportunity to inflict death or serious bdily injury (Ex: close enough to stab you with the knife, not 200yds away)
3. Intent to inflict death or serious bodily injury (demonstrated by actions or words)

Many states have laws that say that someone unlawfully breaking into your home is enough to create a presumption of reasonable fear of imminent death or serious bodily injury. That means the State will presume you had a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury (justifying the use of deadly force in self defense) in that situation unless the evidence shows otherwise.

Technically speaking, this isn't the "Castle Doctrine" in the sense of the recent law reforms pushed by the NRA; but it is a closely intertwined concept and the original poster's question relates to this in the sense that you need to know what your state considers your "Home."

This doesn't mean you can't claim self-defense successfully outside the home. It just means you will not be able to rely on that particular law to create the presumption that lethal force was justified. So you'll have to go the longer route of showing that your attacker did meet the elements discussed above instead of just showing your attacker was unlawfully in your home.

Clear as mud?

[OuTcAsT]

Clear as mud?

Actually you have made an excellent point.

If the factors are present that would justify the use of deadly force, then it would not matter if you are in your living room, garage, or in front of the 7-11.

[KSFreeman]

There is no precedence as the Castle law just came into being and the new law does not have a real definition.

Square, I would think the definition would not be there.

First, what state are you in. The answer to your question depends on where you are located.

Second, look up how your state defines "domicile" or "residence". Likely it will be included in the curtilage.

Third, there may be "case law", decisions by your state's court of appeals or Supreme Court, as to how your state defines this matter.

[brickeyee]

Maybe that recent case with the sword-wielding college kid who had to hack a lurker/attacker in his garage will provide some more guidance.

Wasn't that in Maryland?
A 'duty to retreat state'?

[Old Grump]

My house, my barn, my garage, my shop, if its on my property and I paid for the roof and everything under its its part of my home. I'd worry about legalities later but an intruder has to be presumed to have evil intentions and I have family to worry about.

[Dragon55]

Here in Tennessee just have to meet the 3 criteria as laid out above by Barth Roberts irregardless of in house, garage, back yard, or as stated in front of the 7-11.

[SQUAREKNOT]

I'm in North Dakota. Some good points were made here. I will try find the definition for home and it may be spelled out in the actual we got passed last year.
The amount of crime here is really heating up but you never hear about it in the news or papers as the mayor thinks it might hurt the city's reputation as safe.
One friend has two cops as neighbors and they both are just waiting for one of the bad guys to get shot by a homeowner. They figure crime will drop fast after that.

[dondavis3]

"In Texas it is (even if detached) as is your vehicle. Check your state laws. "

Yeah for Texas.:)

[Glenn E. Meyer]

That's because so many wives throw us out into the garage! :D

[Chief Engineer]

The washer and dryer are in the attached garage, thus it is also a "laundry room" . In our case, no doubt.

Chief

[raftman]

I believe here (in Oregon), an attached garage is included as part of a dwelling, but a detached one would not.

I personally wouldn't react in the "If they're on my property, they're liable to get shot" way. I have an attached garage, as well as a detached shed. If I observe that someone's in the shed, they're not gonna get much more than a disused bicycle, a lawnmower, or various tools. In which case, I will arm myself in the event that the intruder does seek access to the house itself, call the police, and stay prepared in the event that the intruder ends up attempting to break in. If they're in the garage however, then they already HAVE accessed the house, then I would consider them an immediate threat.

[SQUAREKNOT]

The law refers to the "dwelling" I did not have time to check further but in any case-dwelling to me at least would include an attached garage.

[langenc]

Posters here have no problem with the question. Too bad courts have to have 9iscussion about weather yes/no.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The various self-defense laws for North Dakota appear to be in Chapter 12.1-05 of the North Dakota Criminal Code.

I notice also that North Dakota still has a duty to retreat if you are not within a "dwelling." However, it appears that while Section 39-01-01 defines the types of motor vehicles that are afforded the same protection as a dwelling, there doesn't appear to be an actual definition of "dwelling" in North Dakota statutes. So for you, the question is doubly important since not only do you not get the "shortcut" discussed above if you aren't in a dwelling, you also have a duty to retreat if you can safely do so and aren't in a "dwelling."

I would look at the burglarly statutes and burglarly cases for North Dakota. Often, in other states, those statutes use the same definition of a "dwelling" and there is a lot of case law over whether or not breaking into a particular building was breaking into a "dwelling" for sentencing purposes. That might help you find an answer to your question.

[SQUAREKNOT]

Legal definition of dwelling could be argued on both sides. I'm not a lawyer but it looks to me that an attached garage is part of a dwelling/structure/building. So it appears that anyone found in my attached garage is in the same jeopardy as someone found in my bedroom.


2. "Dwelling" means any building or structure, though movable or temporary, or a
portion thereof, which is for the time being a person's home or place of lodging.
3. "Force" means physical action, threat, or menace against another, and includes
confinement.
4. "Premises" means all or any part of a building or real property, or any structure,
vehicle, or watercraft used for overnight lodging of persons, or used by persons for
carrying on business therein.

[Howaido]

I recall a case sometime ago from Cali where some bum got picked up for being too drunk and breaking into the wrong apartment where he was found passed out on the couch, B&E. Then he was arrested for having weed back in the day when it was illegal in Cali, and then he stole a bicycle from an attached garage, burglary of a residence.

3 strikes got him life. So, in Cali, an attached garage is part of the residence.

I know don't do the crime if you can't do the time, but life for this loser is just a bit harsh when it keeps others out of prison who are more deserving when a judge orders release due to over-crowding.

[grumpybutt]

If anyone doesn't understand what part of "it belongs to me"
sorry for you!!:D

[OuTcAsT]

If anyone doesn't understand what part of "it belongs to me"
sorry for you!!


Please clarify what you are trying to say...As it relates to this topic "it belongs to me" means absolutely nothing. Are you trying to say that if something "belongs to you" you have an unencumbered right to use deadly force to protect it ? If so, then I suggest you research a bit further, as this is certainly not the case in all jurisdictions, thus the OP's question.

Depending on what State you hail from, it may not be legal in your own jurisdiction.

[divemedic]

Here it is:

12.1-05-12. Definitions. In this chapter:

2. "Dwelling" means any building or structure, though movable or temporary, or a portion thereof, which is for the time being a person's home or place of lodging.

[qwik]

Front, rear & garage door locked . side door from garage unlocked. Its part of my home .

[Don P]

A question came up tonight. If a BG invades your home and you have a legal right to use deadly force to defend you home. Is your attached garage considered (legally) your home? Or is it a separate place legally?
Personally I consider anyone that illegally and forceably enters my home a deadly threat and that includes the garage.
Anyone?
State you live in would be a big help:rolleyes:

[Mello2u]

While the original question is vague to say the least:

I imagine that you would face prosecution for some sort of illegal homicide if you shot an univited person who was in your unattached garage which was 30 feet from your house with your firearm through your window and the garage window at a total distance of 35' or so. Imagine if the officer interviewed you and you said: "I saw him in my garage and he was messin with my stuff! that really scared me so I stopped him."

You might have a better defense if you shot the trespasser while you both stood in open doorways 30 feet apart. This still leave various facts not determined like whether the intruder had the ability to harm you.

An garage which is not attached to your home can have different legal statuses depending upon the legal question. Note what your home owner's policy says. Buildings which are not attached to your home are not covered under the same schedule of perils as the home structure or for the same amount of coverage.

[blume357]

with that said... a lot of folks get confused with laws... most states I don't think determine a difference between inside your dwelling and on your property... it is all your 'castle' along with your place of work often. In fact, in some states a public rest room has been determined to be the same as your home with no obligation to retreat even before newer castle doctrines.

[beerbebud]

in the appraisal of a home the square footage of the garage is not included in the home. legally it would depend on the prosecutor and also im sure as to if the garage door was initially closed or not. if it was closed i would assume it would be considered part of the home, although there is another sturdy usually bolted and locked door between the garage and inside of the home. if the garage were open i would think the most the intruder was doing was trespassing and could not be charged with burglary maybe theft which i dont think you can shoot someone for

[brickeyee]

in the appraisal of a home the square footage of the garage is not included in the home.

Completely different issue.

At the very least the yard and any outbuildings are curtilage, and there is very likely some statute law and a lot of case law establishing your rights in that area.

While they are often more limited they will also be stronger than on public land (like the roadway).

[Brasscatcher84]

That would certainly depend on the state in question. Here in Oklahoma, your home includes all "curtilages" ie porch, garage, carport, etc. Also, it includes your outbuildings if you or any member of your household are in that outbuilding when the BG breaks in. This info I got courtesy of my local District Attorney, who also teaches at the university I attend.

[Brasscatcher84]

Also, forgot to mention, Oklahoma self defense act allows use of "deadly force" in "defense of property", but currently there is no case law to expound meaning into that phrase.

[Levers]

In NY the court would allow you to shoot the perp only after he had already killed you so as to fully demonstrate his intentions. After all, the perp has rights too. I guess house or garage is not an issue here.

[javabum]

As far as im concerned my attached garage is part of my home and will defend my self if need be.
But here in California,defense of ones property (IE:car,truck and the sort)is illegal.So if some one were to try to steal it you could not shoot said robber.But said robber will be in for a rude awakening.I wont shoot him/her but mace or a few well placed punches will find the mark.I wouldn't stand there and let them steal from me with out doing something.