A shot in the dark - Man shoots fiancee

[Glenn E. Meyer]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/12/national/main5378015.shtml

Periodically, we have discussions of what to do when you detect an intruder. Some usually opines that identification or challenging is not for them. If the BG is in their house, they will open fire, etc.

This view was presented in:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=378465

which we closed.

But I post this as another classic case of using some discretion.

Interesting, there was a case on CourtTV where a wife did the same thing, shot hubby coming out of the can and claimed it was an intruder and she didn't have the vision to discern him from a BG. A psychologist (visual expert) I know and who wrote a chapter for a book I did, performed some very high end Fouier CSF tests on her. Oops - she did have the ability to see him. Didn't go well for her.

Point is ID'ing the target might be a good thing.

Glenn

[Willie Lowman]

And that's why my HD gun has a light attached with a second light right next to it.

[Dannyl]

I keep my EDC gun next to me, and a very powerful light next to it.
No matter what, one should never fire at an unidentified target.

Brgds,
Danny

[ZeSpectre]

Rule #4 - Know your target and what is beyond it.
Rule #4 - Know your target and what is beyond it.
Rule #4 - Know your target and what is beyond it.
Rule #4 - Know your target and what is beyond it.

repeat Ad Nausium.

[csmsss]

I'm quite skeptical as to the circumstances of this shooting and the story of the shooter. In the context most favorable to the shooter, it's still an egregiously negligent shooting. My suspicion, however, is that this was no accident, and that the homeowner concocted the story of an intruder.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

One never knows - that's why the investigation. In the other case that I cited, the claim was judged to be bogus.

Other mistaken shootings have been tragically real.

Seemingly loving couples - one never knows. Darkness resides in the hearts of many as does sudden violent impulses.

The take away point for us - assuming we are not homocidal - is that some caution is needed.

[gdeal]

And that's why my HD gun has a light attached with a second light right next to it.


No matter what, one should never fire at an unidentified target.


Rule #4 - Know your target and what is beyond it.


I agree with the three posts above.

[Mello2u]

This is a concrete "real world" illustration of what can happen if you choose to shoot before you identify your target.

[teeroux]

I never really thought getting shot coming out of the can as a possibility happening to me and my wife.

Mabe there is something wrong with us and we are both weird? We both go to the rest room with the light on.:confused:

[koolminx]

Like all of my own personal rules. Never never never ever ever ever shoot at something if you cannot positively identify it whether it be paper, man or beast.

SD at home, turn on a dang light or leave the gun in the holster...

[markj]

This is why I would not shoot thru a door. Identify first.

[mustang_steve]

As bad as I feel for this guy and his wife, he still needs a good hard kick in the nuts for being thoughtless enough to shoot at dark silhouettes.

ALWAYS ID....verify targets before performing irreversible actions.

[orionengnr]

Just one of the many advantages of owning multiple dogs. If there is someone in the house who doesn't belong there, both he (BG) and I know it right away. Sure cuts down on the possibilities of "mistaken identity"...

Mabe there is something wrong with us and we are both weird? We both go to the rest room with the light on.
After bedtime, if I get up to use the rest room, I don't turn on lights. My night vision is pretty good and I don't care for the retina burn.
Also, if I turn on the light, I will be 110% awake, and probably will not get back to sleep again that night....

[JonathanZ]

It seems he may have been on edge because of all the other recent break ins to his neighbors. Very sad story, and a good lesson for each of us.

[Christchild]

This is one of those things that, in my opinion, could/should prompt a little "Home Training" for all of us that own Arms.

Like Fire Drills...Only concerning guns and What-To-Do in possible situations.

Make sure everyone knows it, and go over it periodically.

[12GaugeLosAngeles]

If you can't fly an airlplane, don't do it.. if you can't tell it's your own wife 5 yards away and you can't asses a basic situation... don't own guns, and don't walk packing down a dark corridor with out some sort of light, or extremely good vision, or you know 100% the target is identified as the intruder. i think this case might have more to do than mistaken identity. Red rum?:confused:

[Christchild]

I try to not Pass Judgement, because One doesn't always know the Truth.

Some things are Cut and Dry, others You just never know.

I won't buy the "He definitely knew it was his Fiance', and he murdered her", thing. Although that is USUALLY the case, Usually doesn't mean Always.

Me personally, I've been on the reciving end of Lies and Falsifications, and I had to pay quite a price for someone elses lying.

So I won't Pass Judgement on this one. I just think events like the One In Question, should alert Us GunOwners to better prepare ourselves, as I stated above. BUT, like many other posters said, know your "target" and what's beyond it. Self/Home Defense and Shooting/Hunting alike.

[besafe2]

IDENTIFY #1.....I know some if not most may have a better light, but my Surefire 6P is right next to my gun.

[NRAhab]

For "tactics and training" purposes, a decent takeaway from this is also to have a plan for a home invasion, a fire, or whatever other emergency you could encounter. If the alarm goes off at 3am, both my wife and I have specific places that we're supposed to go, and a big part of that is because knowing your role can go a long way towards cutting down the odds of a mistaken identity shooting.

Also, have a home security system. They're cheap to buy and maintain, and (for people without kids) it eliminates the need for me to Rambo-Up and go investigate every "weird noise" I hear. With a good alarm system rigged up to the entry points, it allows you to barricade yourself and spouse in a specific room of the house, which means that the chances of a mistaken identity shooting are again lowered.

And finally, divorce yourself from the "I'm going to go check it out" notion. While in certain situations it may be appropriate to clear your house or leave a secure area, for the most part this is an invitation to get yourself shot or worse. I can't think of a single thing I own that's worth killing a human being over, or that's worth getting myself killed. So if the alarm goes off at 0300, whomever has broken in is welcome to steal everything they can carry out of the house - as long as they don't try to enter the place where my wife and I are holed up.

[kiov]

One thing that strikes me about this story is the series of events.

1. Man hears noise.
2. Man gets out of bed without checking to see if only other person supposed to be in the house is still in bed.
3. Man shoots person in hallway.

Whenever I hear a bump in the night I first assume it is one of my kids or someone else who lives in the house, just up late, maybe getting a snack or hitting the bathroom.

I just cant understand how this guy didn't just glance beside him to see if it was his girlfriend who was up.

IMO, its either gross negligence, or murder from the evidence so far.

+1 on having a light...I also have a powerful light on the bedstand, near the .45.

[sakeneko]

+1 on what Gdeal said. :(

[tpareloader]

+1 on the 4th cardinal rule of gun safety , know your target, backstop, and what lies beyond it

[Shawn Dodson]

My letter to the editor of FloridaToday, published Saturday, 17 Oct (http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009910170310)

Sadly the recent shooting in Winter Springs, in which a groom-to-be fatally shot his fiancée the day before their wedding, is more than an accident; it's negligent homicide.

It could've been avoided with a simple verbal challenge, "Who's there!" Instead the shooter stalked and ambushed his victim, with the apparent intent to dole out a deadly punishment.

Sneaking around in darkness of night, with gun in hand, playing burglar hunt is recipe for disaster, especially if a home defender hasn't accounted for all members of the household.

One basic gun safety rule is be sure of your target and what's beyond. Positive target identification is essential to avoiding tragedies such as this.

In my home, family members are instructed to respond when another hollers, "Who's there!" Verbal challenge starts the process of assessing unusual activity or noise.

If the challenge goes unanswered, it's repeated, "Who's there! What are you doing?" while moving away from the area of commotion to a position of safety or advantage.

If necessary, the challenge can escalate to "I have a gun! I've called police! Get out now!"

Simple, effective, no misunderstandings -- it conveys the deadly seriousness of the situation and allows a home defender to assess the threat.

Tell the bad guy to leave. Shoot to stop for deadly danger only.

Shawn Dodson
Titusville

[goose13]

Rule #4 - Know your target and what is beyond it.
Rule #4 - Know your target and what is beyond it.
Rule #4 - Know your target and what is beyond it.
Rule #4 - Know your target and what is beyond it.

repeat Ad Nausium.


+1 to the 4th cardinal rule.


actually +12391810847917 because obviously it can't be stated enough. Some people just aren't ready for the big resposibility that comes with owning and/or carrying a gun