.22magnum any better than .22LR in seriously short barrels?

[Snowdog]

I am suppose to be on the lookout for a NAA revolver or even a derringer for a friend that *must* be of .22magnum chambering.

I told him I didn't think the .22magnum has enough advantage over a .22LR out of a barrel that short to justify the extra cost of ammunition.

I am thinking on the lines of a .22magnum NAA revolver with replacement .22LR cylinder.

What are your thoughts of the .22mag in seriously short barrels.
Are they adventageous?

[Jeeper]

I agree with you that out of a really short barrell a 22 mag wont perform that much better. Since there is "hot" 22 ammo available I would doubt you could find that much of a performance difference.

Why is he set on the magnum cartride. If he simply wants one then why not get it? Since it is a short barrell he is looking for I cant imagine a real purpose for it other than collecting.

[Gino]

Actually, the 22mag IS better than the 22LR! Check out North American Arms webpage at naaminis.com and check out the velocities. Go to the Table of Contents and look for Velocity. I carry CCI 22mag MaxiMag +V ammo and it really is a decent bit faster than 22LR ammo. Just make sure you get the combo 22LR and 22mag gun so you can practice with the 22LR.

If this is really going to be a carry gun, I suggest getting the 1 5/8 inch barrel. It is easier to use than the 1 1/8 inch barrel and is a little bit faster. If you can, also check out the Black Widow model. It is larger, but has a 2 inch barrel. Just to note, you can put the smallest grips on the Black Widow and it is still pretty small.

[Jeeper]

I checked out that site and was shocked by the difference in velocity between the 2 out of such a short barrell. It did show that the difference in ammo is more evident than the difference in cartridge. Is this really a carry gun? I dont think I would want to trust my life to a squirrel gun.

[Carbonium]

I love my North American Arms .22 Magnum with the 1 5/8" Barrel, 5 Rounds, and the extra LR cylinder.
I paid $169 new for it with both cylinders.

This baby weighs 6.2 ounces and is perfect for jogging or high concealment.
It can be carried in your pocket and is smaller than my key chain. This is a close range gun only!

http://www.naaminis.com/


Magnum:
Using CCI's Maxi Mag +V 30 Gr. HP
Mine chrono's at 1,180 fps from that tiny 1 5/8" barrel.
This is about the same velocity and energy as a standard .22 LR fired out of a rifle.
Many poachers kill dear using .22's with head shots.

The Long Rifle cylinder and various Long rifle ammo from Standard to Hyper velocity gives 650-800 fps MAX!
Using CCI's Maxi Mag +V 30 Gr. HP's. The Magnum has 2-3 times the Foot pounds of Energy over the LR yet is only 1/4 of an inch longer.

You can internet order CCI's Maxi Mag +V 30 Gr. HP's at http://www.natchezss.com

Also using CCI CB Long you can plink at 360 fps. Great for getting the wife to shoot her first shots without any recoil.


Some suggestions:

1. Buy the Magnum "with" the extra LR cylinder!!! You will be glad you did and you will enjoy the gun 1000% more.
You will save $$$ in the long run. 90%+ of your shooting will be with the LR. You can target practice all day
using standard LR's that cost 85 cents per 100 rounds that's Dirt cheap shooting! at http://www.natchezss.com
the CCI's Maxi Mag +V 30 Gr. HP will run you $5.45 for a box of 50 when it's time to defend yourself.


2. Buy the 1-5/8 inch barrel not the 1-1/8. The Free leather holster that comes with the magnum is the same
size on both barrels so why compromise velocity and accuracy when the dimensions will be the same when you carry.
This is also true with their $12 shoulder holster.

3. Don't even think about shooting the magnum first as it kicks 5 times harder compared to my Armalite AR-10 .308
with 2700 Foot pounds of energy or even my Glock 17 with Cor-bon P+ ammo. Start with the LR or CB and work your way up to magnum.

4. BTW: The magnum is extremely loud and has a HUGE muzzle blast!!! Should scare the **** out of anyone on the other end.

5. I love this little revolver! Just holding this tiny thing in your hand is fun. You'll need to own one to really appreciate
it's value in situations where other guns are just impractical. http://www.naaminis.com/

[johnwill]

Hmm... I happen to have the NAA Mini-revolver with the 1 5/8" barrel and the two cylinders. Of course, for about the same weight, I can select my Keltec P-32 and have more rounds of .32ACP on tap... If I'm going to carry an NAA mini-revolver, I'll carry one that I don't even know I have with me. :)

http://www.armscenter.com/johnwill/SmallGunPictures/NAA%20Buckle%20Mini.jpg

[rugerfreak]

Seems like I remember an old rule of thumb----where you need at least 6 inches of barrel to take advantage of the .22 mag's greater capacity.

[rkc]

certain brands of .22 Magnum did 840 fps for me in NAA slow buring powder is for long barrels. Did not work for me.

[Carbonium]

certain brands of .22 Magnum did 840 fps for me in NAA slow buring powder is for long barrels. Did not work for me.


This is exactly why I use CCI's Maxi Mag +V 30 Gr. HP's in this short barreled .22 magnum.
You'll get double the foot pounds of energy with it's faster burning powder.


Also note: My friend clocks in at 1250+ fps average with his NAA .22 Magnum 1 5/8" Barrel using the Maxi Mag +V

See the chart here from NAA:

http://www.naaminis.com/magvel.html

CCI Maxi Mag +V 30 Gr. HP
1st Group 2nd Group Avg. 1st Group 2nd Group Avg. 2 Gun Avg.
High 1253 1283 1268 1155 1165 1160 1214
Low 1158 1115 1137 1098 1044 1071 1104
Mean 1195 1174 1185 1130 1112 1121 1153
SD 50 64 57 24 46 35 46

Keep in mind we are talking about the smallest things that will help keep you alive in a tight situation.
Or something simply fun and inexpensive to plink with or even carry as a backup weapon. This is not a big gun contest.

With the correct ammo it has the "same" killing power as most full size semi auto .22 Long Rifles.
Pound for pound it beats a 5 shot 6.2 pound semi auto .22 Long Rifle 16 fold as it's 1/16th weight.

5 shots, 6.2 ounces.

Then again hitting a distant target with a 1 5/8 inch barrel is an art in itself :)

Sometimes I keep mine in the butt stock of my Armalite AR-10 .308 :)

[Marcus]

The magnum with a spare .22lr cylinder is the way to go. Rounds like the Maxi Mag+V have it all over any .22lr load in these little buggers. Be advised .22 is on the fierce side from such a tiny gun. Muzzle blast is suprising to say the least and it`s impossible to hold the gun down when firing it. It`s all to the good though as the muzzle flips just enough to position your thumb over the hammer spur for the next shot. :) Mine has the 1 1/8" barrel,I bought it specifically for pocket carry so I got the shorter barrel,once I started carrying it I realized the extra 1/2" wouldn`t have made much difference. They`re fun little guns to shoot,I put 20rds. through mine on Sat. The gun is so small my shooting companion commented that it looked like I was shooting with my finger and that others at the range were looking at me funny.:p Their tactical niche is a different story. I carry mine as a secondary gun (in an outside pocket when it`s really cold out) or when I simply can`t carry anything larger (swimming trunks and no shirt etc.). I have no doubt that it will cause lethal damage if need be but 2 things trouble me about it. 1)Lethal damage is one thing, "stopping power" is another. I question it`s ability to "take the fight" out of a BG as well as larger caliber guns. 2) Although I know we should never count on intimidation to stop an attacker, if I have to pull out my full sized 10mm to defend myself there`s a chance the BG will "see the err of his ways",if not then I have to do what I have to do but at least there`s a chance. With the mini being SOOOO tiny and almost comical in appearance I don`t think it`ll stop anyone. In fact it may tick them off that you were "trying to fool them" with a "tiny toy gun" and make matters worse. Then you may have to use it and see how well those little bullets work. Even a .25 auto strikes a more impressive pose than the tiny minis. This carries over to 1) also. Psychology is a big part of stopping power,if someone is shot by an M-60 machine gun they may fall over even if they`re not hit that bad thinking "Oh ___ I just got shot by a machine gun,time to die." but you may shoot them straight through the heart with a mini without stopping them because they`re thinking "That ridiculous little toy won`t stop me,I`m gonna kill that ____!". He may die a minute later but that may be too late. I could be totally wrong but it`s something to think about. Marcus

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All,

I got the NAA .22 magnum with the 1-1/8" barrel;
strictly for a back-up pocket gun. Great little
piece; that has served me well.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.

[MatthewM]

Use www.22ammo.com to study the variety in 22 ammo.

Check out their cool custom made .22Mag V-Max! Cool.

----
Anyway, an aside:
My brother in law was telling me about a fight he saw long ago. He knew the guys...
The one guy broke a bottle and slashed the throat of the other. Blood spurted profusely like he got the artery. Guy with slashed neck grabs his neck with one hand and charged ahead with the fight!!!
Didn't slow him down much at all.
Trip to the hospital and he lived... bummer. Never met the guy but he needed to die.

[Bottom Gun]

Another point to consider is that the .22 mag is now available with 50 gr Gold Dot projectiles.
That may be the way to go with such a short barrel.

[rkc]

Fellows, thanks for the information.
this is better than reading Guns and Ammo.
Just when I thought I knew it all
Some of the new loads work pretty well,
I see. I am going to try some of them.
the .22 is a lot of fun because we can test
so many loads dirt cheap. One thing the .22 magnum has
is penetration.

[Ben Shepherd]

22 tracer? COOL!!!!!! I just had to order a brick!!!!!!

[PreserveFreedom]

What I think puts 22WMR above 22LR at handgun velocities is the availability of FMJ ammo.

[Jim March]

I own two .22Mag minirevolvers, a 1.5" barrel FA and a 4" barrel NAA MiniMaster.

The *only* defensive ammo I would ever load in either is the CCI MaxiMag +V. Period, end of discussion.

It's actually available in two flavors, regular and "TNT". They both have 30grain JHPs over the same case and powder, for identical ballistics and so far as I can tell, same point of aim and accuracy.

The difference is the projectile - the TNT uses a Sierra JHP with a larger, more advanced JHP cavity. You're much more likely to get expansion out of it.

What I do is load the original small-cavity formula in the 1.5" barrel gun, and I assume that it'll either not expand, or it'll experience a delay in expansion for a little bit of "deep punch" effect, or at least as deep as something this small will go :). Still and all, there's enough energy there to penetrate skull on a headshot which is more than I can say for most .22LR from that length barrel.

In the 4" gun, NAA's tests say I'll get 1,400fps or more :D. So I load the TNTs, hoping they'll hurt more ;).

Now, if I *really* wanted hardball and no expansion, I'd take the original +V and use a toothpick to fill the JHP cavity with epoxy to ensure zero expansion :D. Might even get quasi-AP properties that way, with a good enough epoxy (JB-Weld = "The Glue Of The Gods") :D.

[WESHOOT2]

Admission: my "always" is the 22LR with stubby tube.

I suggest that if one SERIOUSLY thinks there will be significant difference in the real world when shooting another human with either of these I suggest one may be counting on caliber performance WAY TOO MUCH.

At the (correct) contact range these may be used at SHOT PLACEMENT will be the critical component of survival, not the velocity or penetration of these anemic performers.

Of course I'll grant exceptions, but these both are carried based on size, so if you want the bigger one then get a bigger gun.

Anyone else here ever heard of running screaming the other way? (Or wearing a 1911?)

Your results may vary, but please don't bet your ass on it............

[Alaska Roy]

I clocked some of the Federal Premium 30gn .22 Mags out of a 1 3/4 Freedom Arms Derringer a couple days ago! They went an amazing 1300fps!

[Jim March]

WHOA! Roy, was that the four-shot FA minirevolver?

I wonder if the FA minis (now long out of production) might have been "tighter" than most NAAs, and hence generate more FPS?

Weshoot2: while I agree regarding shot placement, the fact is some .22LR fodder won't make it through the skullbone on a headshot when a good .22Mag would. .22LRs jamming up in somebody's sinus cavity have been recorded, in which case the patient ends up sneezing the round out in the ER :D.

The hotter .22Mags even from a 2" or less barrel won't do that. They can make it past cheekbones, forehead skullbone, stuff like that.

In addition to strong velocity, the CCI MaxiMag +V/TNT family has always given me 100% ignition, which is more than I can say for the Winchester 33grain Supremes.

The Federal 30grain pulling that much speed is interesting, but I'll stick with CCI until I see evidence it wasn't a fluke :).

Roy, what was the cylinder gap on that little FA of yours?

[Alaska Roy]

I doubt it was a fluke Jim, I repeated the clocking several times with the $8.95 a box ammo over a brand new Pro Chrony along with several known loads for confirmation. It was about 32 degrees and a perfect clocking day, overcast. Tried it with and without sky screens because a couple other shooters couldn't believe the numbers either!
Yes, it's the old FA four shooter Improved variation. I've also got the earlier version with the hammer mounted firing pin with a 1 1/16 in. barrel.
Barrel gap is tricky to measure as my feelers are too wide so I used a piece of paper that miked about .004 to .005 that fit close enuff. Not exactly a tight gap Jim.
I didn't put any ammo on paper but did plink some at leaves out to 20yds without missing.

[Jim March]

I'll be damned :).

That's the same gun as mine, BTW..."Casull's Improvement", frame mounted firing pin and all.

I may try some Fed 30s for accuracy :).

[Alaska Roy]

I'm trying to buy another I found down south of Anchorage, an old miner has the complete belt buckle set with convertable cylinder.
My Improved came with the small stocks, same as on the older FA derringer,I scored a set of the Boot style larger plastic stocks that cover the gripframe.
The Five Shot Journal had some pages dedicated to some of Dick Casulls Derringers a few issues back FYI.
Ever seen the cap and ball variation?
I havn't a clue how many of these Dick built, my improved is SN B282XX and the older one is B 077XX, look like a good many!

[7th Fleet]

Do yourself a favor and check out the Kel-Tec P-32, it will give you 8 rounds of hollowpoint centerfire ammunition in a locked breech semiauoto pistol that is flatter and lighter than that dangerous trinket that you are thinking about buying. They are hard and slow to shootwell and limit you to half the number of rounds that the P-32 carries. They are more dangerous to carry and you are prone to fumble the cocking of the small piece, about all you can say about them is that they are better than a short sharp stick.


7th

[Snowdog]

7TH,

This certainly isn't for me. I already have a P-32 and stoked with 60gr Cor-bons, I sometimes carry it when the K9 wishes to stay home in the safe.

This is for a buddy that seems hell-bent on a derringer in .22magnum caliber. I really can't see his reasoning, but I was hoping to get some info on the ballistic differences between the .22LR and .22mag in short barrels.

I haven't heard from him in a few days, so it's very possible he's already bought what he's looking for.


Thanks everyone for the info.

[Carbonium]

Talkling about a dangerous trinket.

How about a derringer in RBCD's new 50 BMG with a 4 inch Barrel and over 16,000 flbs of muzzle FLASH.
You would need at least 4 inches of Barrel as the Round is 3.9 inches long.

Name it the Wrist Rocket as the kick would take your Wrist off :eek: