Walther PPK safety issue

[volkl08]

I realize that the Walther PPK does not have a firing pin safety, just a thumb safety convieniently located for right-handed shooters. However, I am left-handed. Does anyone really know the reality of an accidental discharge from dropping this handgun, and is it considerably safe to carry decocked, loaded, with thumb safety off in a decent galco shoulder holster?

(I realize there are other .380's on the market that have firing pin safeties, such as the beretta 84/85 and the sig 232, but walther seems to fit the best.)

[azredhawk44]

As another leftie interested in a walther...

Does anyone know if the safety can be reversed so it is on the right side of the gun for a leftie's thumb to turn off?

Again, the walther is just dimensionally the best .380 out there for my needs.

[Musketeer]

In the 5th Eddition Book of Combat Handgunnery Ayoob specifically mentions a Walther PPK/S as having gone off after a couple, loaded down with groceries, dropped it while enterring their home. It had one in the chamber and the safety off. I do not remmber for certain if there was an injury but I believe there was.

I do not know if an ambi is possible, how about the Sig in 380, does it have one? Personally I own a PPK/S but am not a fan of the 380. I am picking up a Firestar M-43 that is about the same size but in 9mm. It also has an ambi safety and the single action trigger I much prefer for accurate shooting over the heavy and long DA pull of the PPK's first shot.

[RJay]

The walther PP and PPK are safe to carry with a round in the chamber and the hammer down, safety off. I have a great deal many of my references packed away but I do remember that. They also passed the ATfs" drop test". I own several of these fine pistols and when ever I do carry one ( rare anymore, P-32 now ) I carry it with a roudd in the chamber, safety off, ready for double action mode.

[blume357]

above.... safety on a double action auto is just something to get in the way. The safety on the Walther is just another complication. I would leave it off and one in the chamber.....

[warwagon]

As i recall, the PPK safety is a decocker first, then can be employed as a safety. When decocking , with a round up, the hammer drops with enough force to touch off the round.
A good holster should aleviate these concerns, as securing the weapon is always the smart thing to do(small guns dropped tend to become lost guns!):eek:

[Dfariswheel]

While it's POSSIBLE the Walther can fire if dropped from a sufficient height, and on a sufficient hard surface, this is pretty unlikely.

The Walther has a 80 year history of being about the safest "pocket" auto ever made.

It's only in recent years and a frenzy of concern about dropped pistols that the firing pin lock was seen as necessary, and most experts consider them to be a "belt and suspenders" issue.

The Walther PP series safety/decocker CANNOT be reversed since the right side of the slide is solid with no hole.

Just do what people who carry the Walther have done for 80 years: Load it, lower the hammer, and don't worry about it.

[denfoote]

The PPK has about a 100 gazillion pound double action trigger pull!!!

You don't need no stink'in safety!!! :p

[RsqVet]

I would buy the Sig but I'm partail to it and It's mag release is ambidextirus though it's in the wrong place....

So far as the Walther with the safety off, I think that one of the concerns mentioned in the reading that I have done is that the firing pin spring is not as strong as say that on a 1911 where, if we are talking about a non-series 80 gun the strength of the firing pin spring is the only thing preventing an inertial discharge due being droped, the waltehr safety swings aroudn a locks and blocks the firing spring, if I recall right, messing with my old one the FP spring was actually pretty weak so I would be a little uneasy with this.

[jacobtowne]

It's difficult to compare the SIG Sauer P232 to the PPK. The SIG is the same size as the Walther PP, so is larger than the PPK. In fact, my old WWII PP fits perfectly in my P232 carry holsters.
The SIG is lighter, since it has an aluminum frame. It also has no manual safety. While some criticize it for being larger than necessary for the caliber, I find that with Hogue rubber grips it fits my hand, so is for me a fine carry piece.
JT

[michael t]

Iam a lefty and theirs a PPK/S in my pocket 95% of the time Safety Off ready for use. Don't worry about it carry and enjoy. I wonder how we got along with out all the Safety Nazi's it a wonder any kidd lived to buy a gun after rideing a bike with out a helment,plugs in elec outlets and other Lawyer crap. Now this garbage is becoming so common and people are afraid to do anything.. When I was young I was taught how to lower a Hammer safely on a rifle and a 1911:eek: People used to do those things.

[JohnKSa]

The Makarov which is a similar design but does NOT have a firing pin spring requires a drop of 6 feet or more directly on the muzzle and onto a hard surface to have a chance of firing.

A PPK will be more resistant than that.

[Musketeer]

If one is in the chamber and it is dropped it may go off. If that happens, and you have been made aware of it, you are legally and morally responsible for the damages it may incur. Peraps it must fall from more than 6 feet, or just one way. Perhaps in the attempt to catch it you accidentally speed it down due to fumbling with it. The bottom line is it can happen.

In regards to those who may consider me a "safety nazi", we did lots of things that looking back were pretty damn stupid!


Doctors used to advertise cigarettes.

Cars used to not use temperred glass, or even have seatbelts.

Construction workers used to be coverred in asbestos (like my father who developed spots on his lungs from it).

LEOs used to use holsters that could have the weapons pulled out by a BG with ease.


On some things we have gone overboard, on others we have learned. Personally I do not want to run the risk of my little girl being a vegatible one day due to a bike accident so she will wear a helmet. Just because you and I made it through doesn't mean many other people did not learn the hard way, or not have the chance to use what they learned because they were dead.

Taking the proper precautions though with a firearm are more than protecting yourself, it is protecting those around you and it is your responsiblilty to do so.

[Minator]

If you are worried about a walthers safety look at a bersa thunder same demensions as a ppk but only costs 200 dollars has firing pin block its unlike most brazilian firearms its leaps and bounds in quality above any others in my opinion and they are lefty freindly

[JohnKSa]

Musketeer,

Everything you say is true, but your level of consternation is not warranted by the facts, IMO. If you drop a gun on the muzzle (the only plausible way to get it to go off) and it does go off, the bullet is going to go straight into the floor. Even with a concrete floor it's going to be hard to get a decent ricochet--fragmenting and splatter is much more likely.

I'm not saying there's no potential for injury, but I think it's not at all likely to cause a serious injury. After all, most of the tactical ready positions have the gun pointed at the floor which says that it's considered to be a pretty safe place to point a gun.

Combined with the unlikelihood of the incident in the first place (dropping muzzle down with a round chambered and the safety off from a significant height) it's not something to stay up nights over. The only exception, IMO would be if you're prone to dropping guns and you live on the second floor or above.

I would have no problem carrying a PPK hammer down safety off and one in the pipe. In fact, I do it all the time. ;)

[Combat Kenny]

Hi guys and gals,

I remembered reading that Walther did had a problem with, if one to dropped their PPK hard enough, force transfered from the hammer can still go to the firing pin and fire a round off. When S&W took over the line of the PPK/S in US, one of the things they modified was the passive hammer block/safety. Thus protecting the firing pin from the hammer. The other major change was the extra tang, which I love. So, depending on, which model you have, just know it can happen. Then again, whom in their right mind would want to drop their gun??

Now for the argument, I bought my PPK/S because of James Bond, but it was also because I like the smooth lines. It is a very nice looking gun. But after a little reading, the gun started with the PP in 1929 and the PPK around 1931. It has been around for a long time and it is still in production. All the others that look like it, have copied one or more things from it. They are PPK copies or clones. The PP/PPK was the first true production DA. That kind of mean something. Sig is nice, Bersa is inexpensive, Makarov is cude, and so is the FEG. Hope that I didn't offended anybody, but those are my thoughts.

Good luck and good shooting

[Gatofeo]

I love my Walther PPK, in .380 caliber.
It's compact, easily maintained and easily carried. I carry mine in a Bianchi X16L Agent shoulder holster. I like this better than sticking it in my belt.
I learned long ago that a gun in the belt, even in a holster, is often exposed to the public if you're not careful. This can cause a panic today.
Typically, exposure (of the pistol, that is :D ) occurs when you bend over or kneel to check something on a lower shelf in the store.
I can carry the Walther and two extra magazines in the shoulder holster, under a light jacket, and no one's the wiser.
Of course, I can't remove my jacket but that's not often an issue.
I carry my Walther PPK loaded with the hammer down and on SAFE. The safety is there for a purpose, I believe, so I use it. It's just another level against accidental discharge.
Also, should I end up wrestling with someone who's not gun-wary, they may not know to flick off the safety. This is a very remote possibility, I know, but it still exists. More than a few officers have been saved when a bad guy couldn't get the gun to fire because the safety was on.
In one of the James Bond movies, with Roger Moore, Bond is captured by the bad guys because his much-loved PPK falls from its holster onto hard ground and fires, alerting the bad guys.
I recall reading about this scene in gun magazines when the movie came out in the 1970s. Many gun writers cried foul and said that Ian Fleming, the creator of the James Bond series, must be spinning in his grave.
I've never heard of the PPK ever going off when dropped. It's a good, safe design that has served millions well for nearly 75 years.
That's one of the reasons I went with the PPK: It's been around long enough for the bugs to be worked out.
When compared to other .380s five years ago, when I bought it, it was streamlined, small and handled well. I recall looking at a Sauer, Sig or some model ... can't recall which ... that the salesman tried to sell me.
My gawd, it was as big as a full sized 9mm and held 13 .380 rounds as I recall. Might as well carry a .45!
I wanted something proven, accurate, reliable, compact and for which parts and upgrades are readily available.
I got most of my wishes. My only complaint is that no one makes a rubber grip for the PPK. Oh, many manufacturers make such a thing for the PPK/S but not the PPK. Wonder why? Anyone know why?

On a side note, my personal Walther PPK has ADJUSTABLE SIGHTS! Whooo hoooo!
Back in the 1970s, a company called Michigan Machine Co. (MMC) made an adjustable sight for the PPK. The late, great gun writer Skeeter Skelton had one on his personal PPK.
That sight hasn't been made in many years but I found one on Ebay, new in the pouch! Got it for $55 as I recall --- and the 1970s price tag on it was $74.95!
It's a nice, small, unobtrusive sight that makes it possible for me to adjust my PPK for moderate lead bullet loads, then sight it in for stouter, jacketed bullet loads.
Now, if only I could find rubber grips for my PPK --- and perhaps add the Walther laser sight that replaces the trigger guard so it leaves the outline unchanged --- I'd be set.
Hmmmmm .... I can see me now ... at the Baccarat tables in Monte Carlo .. resplendent in my black tux ... PPK under my left armpit ... and wowing the ladies with my introduction ... "Feo .... Gato ... Feo" <sophisticated raising of eyebrow> :D

[Sulaco2]

Buy one of the new S&W PPK/S guns they have the firing pin safety and a bigger rear shelf to prevent hammer or slide bite. I remember recently Walt Ranch in CHG's reported about having two or three PPKs that he took to the range and hit on the hammer (loaded chamber - hammer down) with a rubber hammer, he reported that all the PPK's would AD if hit that way. Know of one officer that dropped his BUG in the locker room and it (PPK) went off when it hit the ground and the round ended up in his gut. The orginal PPK design is several decades old and needed an upgrade not just for safety reasons...;)

[JohnKSa]

Walt Ranch in CHG's reported about having two or three PPKs that he took to the range and hit on the hammer (loaded chamber - hammer down) with a rubber hammer, he reported that all the PPK's would AD if hit that way.Mine won't. Not unless you hit it hard enough to break internal parts. The gun is designed to prevent the hammer from contacting the firing pin unless the trigger is fully rearward. I've posted on this board at least once or twice how to verify this.

PPK and PPK/S handguns may AD when dropped muzzle down from a significant height, but they will not AD when struck on the hammer unless the blow is sufficient to break the internal parts that are designed to prevent just such an AD.

My PPK is not one of the newer models made by S&W, it was made over 15 years ago.

[Sulaco2]

Not a matter of the hammer hitting the firing pin, its imparting enough inertia to cause the pin to move enough to indent a primer. Like, don't like PPKs will AD and will continue to if hit right or dropped.

[JohnKSa]

Firing pin inertia/momentum can cause an AD when the gun is struck abruptly and forcefully from the FRONT, or dropped on the muzzle (which amounts to the same thing.) This could theoretically happen with a PPK although the firing pin spring and the relatively light weight of the firing pin makes it quite unlikely.

A strike to the hammer can cause an AD when the force of the blow drives the hammer against the firing pin or if the hammer is resting against the firing pin and the force of the blow is transferred to the firing pin via the hammer. Since the PPK hammer can not contact the firing pin this type of AD can not happen without parts breakage in the PPK or PPK/S pistols I've seen.

Striking the hammer will not cause a firing pin inertia/momentum AD in any handgun design I'm aware of.

I don't know what internal variations there are in the PPK PPK/S line over the years, but I can tell you conclusively, based on the pistols I've personally examined, that striking the hammer on a PPK (or dropping it on the hammer) will not cause an AD unless the trigger is held to the rear or the force of the blow is sufficient to break internal parts (or unless the pistol has already been damaged).

I can also say with a very high degree of confidence that dropping a PPK from a reasonable height (less than 6 feet) is highly unlikely to cause an AD.

[Sulaco2]

Your confidence makes me confident...:rolleyes:

[JohnKSa]

Look, here are the facts as I know them.

Someone did a test of a Makarov pistol and found that dropping it from at least 6 feet onto a hard surface so that the gun hit on the muzzle that there was sufficient inertia imparted to the firing pin to pop a primer in an unloaded casing.

The Mak doesn't have a firing pin spring (the PPK does) which would make the Mak MORE susceptible to this kind of AD. Therefore, it is logical and reasonable to conclude that it would take a drop from MORE than 6 feet with the gun landing on the muzzle to get a PPK to AD in the same way.

As far as hitting the hammer, there is no way that I am aware of to hit a hammer and transfer inertia/momentum to the firing pin UNLESS the hammer can touch the firing pin. I have carefully examined my PPK and there is no way the hammer can touch the firing pin unless the trigger is held fully to the rear.

I'm willing to be schooled. If you can explain to me how it is possible to transfer inertia/momentum to the firing pin of a gun by hitting the hammer when the hammer can't touch the trigger then I will back down on this particular point.

I used to carry my PPK with the safety on, but after some testing I decided that it was unnecessary. I'm not saying it's AD PROOF, but it's pretty doggone AD resistant.

NOW, I have no way of known if every PPK ever built has the same safety features, but I have posted on this board how to test to see if the hammer safety I described is operational on any particular PPK.

I'm not being flip about safety, just reporting the facts as I know them. People are free to do as they please, and also to conduct their own tests if they choose.

[michael t]

JohnKSa Iam with you This not first time for this argument . His statement of "don't like PPKs will AD and will continue to if hit right or dropped." Says it all.

All this drop test crap comes from anti gun states and lawyers. Then the Safety Nazi's jump on it. and we must not disagree with them ITS FOR THE CHILDREN you know.:barf: