Proper load for a .44 Pietta?

[KidMaverick]

First let me say I've been browsing this forum for the past couple of days. So far i've seen lots of genuinely friendly people,and books of great info. Which is a welcome change from other fotums i've browed. Y'all should be proud.

Anyway to my question. I just purchased a .44 58 Remington repro from Cabellas. It's made by Pietta. The(pietta) handbook recomends between 12-15 grains of fffg. That seems horribly underwelming to me. I see a lot of guys on here using between 30-40 grains. I havn't fired it yet. I was planning to take it out this weekend. I was planning to use Goex fff with a wad between the ball and the powder. Can i safely use that much powder ,or is the Pietta horribly inferier to the other? I sure would apreciate any tips. Thanks

[sundance44s]

I beleive the load chart that comes with the gun is talking about powder grains in weight .. not volume .. not many of us have a scale to measure the weight but there are some conversion charts on the net . most of us load by volume with one of those powder measures you can buy for 5 to 20 bucks .. 20gr of Pyrodex P is a good load or when i can find some 25 gr of goex is a good load in my Pietta 44`s .

[oldmaster111]

I shoot between 26 and 30 grains in my Uberti Remington. They are very similar, I think and these loads have always worked good for me. I like Schuetzen powder but to each his own.:D

[Brent Vinson]

Howdy,

I got a '58 Remmie from Cabelas about two months ago.

I've had some chances to shoot it with various loads.

First I tried Pyrodex 30 Gr. pellets with .454 lead balls. This worked OK.
Got four inch groups at 15 yards 3 to 4 inches low of point-of-aim.
Things got really cruddy fast and the fouling build-up was rapid. Clean-up was a pain.:mad:

Then I tried triple seven FFF lose powder. Used a flask wiht a 28 Gr. spout.
This worked much better. Recoil was a little sharper but ignition was more consistent. Group size was about three inches with .454 balls. Impact was just about point-of-aim offhand. Maybe just a little low using a bench rest.
Clean-up was really easy. Use a little Ballistol on the cylinder pin and wipe off the front of the cylinder after every dozen shots and you can shoot all night.:)

I also have a Kirst converter cylinder and can shoot Ultramax 245 Gr..45 Colt smokeless loads. Recoil is greater but accuracy is about the same as the 777 cap and ball loads.

I only paid a couple hundred bucks for this piece and couldn't be happier !

Get some Triple Seven and start saving up for a conversion cylinder.

Cheers,

Cincinnati Slim

[gmatov]

All BP charges are in weight. BP is the standard by which you set a volume charge. Weigh 30 grains, set your measure to hold that much powder, and no matter what powder you use, you will have a 30 grains BY VOLUME charge, no matter what that particular powder weighs.

All the BP subs are made to duplicate the BP charge at that volume, except 777, which is 15% hotter, should be reduced by 15%, unless you shoot lower volume charges and the 777 will be within the max for your pistol.

I don't even know if the rammer on my Pietta 58s will seat a ball to get compression at a 12 grain charge. If not, Pietta is screwing up big time telling you this is the recommended charge, what with the taboo on having an airspace over the powder.

I like 30 grains. It barks more, kicks a little more, shoots a little flatter, and the theory behind that comes from Elmer Kieth, a noted old time gun expert.

A fast ball exits quicker, and even if the total recoil is higher, the ball is already out of the barrel, on the way to the target. With a slow ball the pistol is recoiling while the ball is still traversing the barrel, so it shoots higher.

Wish some of you guys would try that, might be a few less complaining about their pistols shooting high at 25 yards. You shoot 20, 25 grains, file the rear sight on a Colt, build up the front on a Rem, though my own 4, 3 44s and a 36 , all shot low, have to hold a 1/16 inch of the front post in the rear notch to be on target. 30 to 35 grains, all of a sudden you are shooting low.

Admit it does get you less shots per pound of powder. till cheap shooting, though.

Cheers,

George

[Low Key]

30 grains is a good target load and is what I use for target shooting. You can load 40gr in the Pietta cylinders with no problems, I keep a cylinder loaded with 40gr all the time for hiking, etc.

[sundance44s]

Some folks say you can`t get 40 gr in a Pietta 44 remmie cylinder but ya can i`ve done it the Pietta cylinders are a little longer than the Uberti`s .. it does take some compression to do it ... but possible .

[KidMaverick]

Hey guys. Thanks alot for the replies and advice. I apreciate it. Mostly i was concerned with safety. I don't want to overcharge it. I'm not really a stranger to the cap n ball or muzzleloaders in general. I used to own and shoot quite frequently a .50 hawken style flintlock and a .36 navy. I kinda fell out of it for awhile amidst distractions. Sold my hawken,and the .36 fell into disrepair. It was pretty well used up when i bought it. I still have my old measure ,but i can't for the life of me remember how much i used to charge in the .36. Doesn't really matter now since she's a wall hanger. Again thanks alot for the help. Can't wait to get out there this weekend.

[mg66]

gmatov ... Elmer Keith is exactly correct.

That is why a 357mag POI is lower than a 38sp fired from the same gun at the same point on the target.

[gmatov]

mg66,

I've read about everything Kieth wrote, starting about 50 years ago. Been rereading these last few months.

He probably knew more about firearms, and especially large bore pistol shooting than any other writer before or since.

He was called a liar many times for some of his articles on long, and I mean LONG, range pistol shooting, anytime he offered to demonstrate to a doubter, if they took him up, they went away muttering "He did it but, damn, it's impossible. But, he did it!"

Same when he was working for the Armoury during WWII, a sergeant said the Colt 1911 couldn't hit a barn, Kieth said he would hit a man at 200 yards. Sergeant said he'd go stand at 200 yards and let him shoot at him all day.

Fixed sights, took his lay down position, 2 sighters to walk in on a patch of snow, the next 5 into it. Sergeant backed down.

Learned his BP from the men who used them in the Civil War and after.

Have to buy some more of his old books, only have half a dozen or so.

Cheers,

George

[Duncaninfrance]

Kid. I shoot a Pietta 1858 progressive and the attached is from last week when I was shooting the first balls that I cast. Load was FFF 28 grains, lubed felt wad and a .457 ball. It was shot dualist at 25 meters.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/Duncaninfrance/TARGET-2-JUL-06-WEB.jpg

Cheers
Duncan

[Steve499]

mg66, a lot of the difference in where a handgun places it's bullets on the target, vertically, is more a component of bullet weight than speed. I haven't personally tested the faster bullet hits lower theory but it sounds logical to me. I do know, however, that a 125 grain .357 magnum hits lower than a 148 grain .38 special from the same gun because of the bullet wieght. Try a 158 grain .357 mag. and then try a 125 grain .38 special. You will have the faster .357 mag. hitting higher in that case. I don't know all the physics behind it but I use bullet weight changes to move bullet impact up or down for fixed sight cartridge revolvers before I attack the sights. In a percussion revolver. if you want to stay with a round ball, you obviously don't have that option. I would really love to see someone with a chronograph do some testing on the faster hits lower thing to see how much the speed has to be increased before it becomes apparent on the target.

Steve

[mec]

Not a great deal of difference actually. Bullet weight in modern revolvers has more to do with poi changes than variations in velocity.

Here are some velocities with various loads in a Uberti 58/ This is a fairly "fast" revolver and results will vary among guns, loading procedures and components. None of these loads are over pressure or dangerous: First number is velocity for 5-6 rounds. second number is the extreme spread per string.
Load .454 Ball
28 Grain Pyrodex P 966 54
28 Grain Goex FFFg 795 31
28 Grain Swiss FFFg 959 32
35 Grain Swiss FFFg 1089 33
40 Grains Swiss FFFg 1104 37
40 Grains Pyrodex P 1125 35
*35 Gr/Vol. H777 1061 28
180 Grain Traditional Bullet
28 Gr/Vol. Pyrodex P 896 74
28 Grains Goex FFFg 712 45
28 Gr/vol. Swiss FFFg 962 68
200 Grain Lee Bullet .452
22 Grain/Vol. Pyrodex 777 14
28 Grain Goex FFFg 764 41
22 Grain Swiss FFFg 785 44
fps=feet per second
* Lower charge of H777 were not consistent.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18537&d=1144458620

[gmatov]

Duncan,

Do you over there in France drink wine while shooting? Is that why you use such HUGE targets?:) :)

Over here, we say "Can't hit the broad side of a barn!" That target is as BIG as the broad side of a barn. Or a winery, perhaps. Or is it oienery?

Cheers,

George

Are those cast balls on the barrel?

[mec]

the part of the target he actually USED is pretty small though. that's good shooting for 25 yards/meters/whatever.

[Duncaninfrance]

That is a standard 25 mtr pistol target George, and if it were a guy - he is DEAD! That centre is 77/8" dia. You must build barns for midgets :D out there!

Never shoot at wineries, bad form old boy!

Those are cast balls on the barrel. Made using a Pedersoli double mould with roofing lead.

Duncan

[gmatov]

Ah, must be the size it posted as. Looks huge, and, actually the pistol and balls look a little oversize.

I got the same problem when I post a pic. I take them all at high re, convert to jpeg, post, they come out 1984 or something pixels, 2 screens wide. Trouble is when I make 'em smaller, there is no definition when you blow 'em up to look at them. 1/4 inch pixels. You know what I mean, you are a photographer.

All kidding aside, I like the groups you shoot.

Cheers,

George