FNH USA soon to release 5.7x28 Bolt action

[p99guy]

FN says the 5.7x28mm bolt gun will be ready by July or August, two versions.
There will be the PBR(Patrol, Bolt Rifle) and they will also have a "sporting" version of it.
They missed being ready for the shot show in time.

[FirstFreedom]

Sweet. I guess. But isn't .22 hornet ammo cheaper? And more powerful? That round in a precision gun is about like teats on a boar hog ain't it?

[ShipWreck]

Interesting. I had not known about that. I have no plans to buy one, though. But interesting :)

I'm currently saving for an AR next.

[atblis]

What does this do that 5.56 doesn't do?
I understand 5.7 over 5.56 in the pistol.
I understand 5.7 over 5.56 in a carbine.
In a bolt rifle?

[el Divino]

if the 22 hornet is reloaded with spitzer bullets will ballistics be almost the same as 5.7x28's ??

[p99guy]

the 5.7x28 isnt loaded to its full potential because of its use in blowback or in the case of the Five Seven Pistol- delayed blowback actions.

the actions of the auto's use the laquer coating on the casing to aid in extraction, this limits the handloading of the cartridge case because full lenth resizing strips the laquer off after a couple of times, which makes it quite unreliable in a P90, it effects the Five seven pistol less and you can get about 4 reloads before the laquer craps out to the point that its a problem. The laquer coating is what keep some ammo manufacturers from wanting to produce 5.7 ammo....now could produce bolt gun only ammo
bother hotter and unlaquered.

With a bolt action the laquer isnt an issue...more reloads per cartridge case
is an instant result. Hotter loads are possible with the bolt gun.
of FN factory ammo the familure SS190 does 2350fps from the 10.3 inch barrel of the P90...the SS190-1 that FN experimented with had the same bullet but would do 2670fps from the 10.3 inch barrel....while FN deemed this load as unnessiscery,(and probley a little rough in a blowback) That type of round would be right up the bolt actions alley.

Also for those of us that have or will have a 5.56mm suppressor...its going to be quite easy to make 55gr bulleted subsonic for use in the bolt gun
(dont have to please a automatic action) 5.7x28 subsonic loaded with a M193 bullet or the like is very darn quiet! No action noise either....and would still do a IIIA at 50meters or under. hmmmm Im getting a PBR and putting a AAC suppressor on it...


Have you looked at .22 hornet ammo prices lately
go ahead and look at what a 50 round box costs lol(bloody hell!)

http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?TabID=3&Categoryid=7515&categorystring=653***690***

5.7x28 is cheaper to shoot than .22 hornet....and very accurate

[Mannlicher]

yawn. Another useless product.

[p99guy]

That reminds me of a joke I heard at the pistol range:
What is the most popular type of rifle at the San Francisco gun club?

a Mannlicher, you silly dilly! :) (well I thought it was funny when I heard it, guess you had to have been there..he did the lisp and everything)

[M1911]

Seems to me to be the answer to a question that nobody asked.

[p99guy]

lol I had to go out and look to see that I didnt post this at HCI by mistake
or that fake hunter rights group they have.

[tINY]

So, FN is gonna have a hotter round out there that isn't too safe to fire in the P90 but will fit?

Doesn't seem too likely.

And if you want a supressed 22 cal at supersonic speeds, the 223 is plenty fine. At sub-sonic, you want a 22LR.




-tINY

[p99guy]

I allready have a AAC Phoenix suppressed .22 and strangely enough I cant get it to take 55gr M193 projectiles or 62 gr M885 projectiles (5.7x 28 will).....I have a AAC Optima 5.56 suppressor.....but 5.56 subsonic factory made ammo is darned expensive.and handloading them if you dont know what your doing with such a small charge..you can cause a KABOOM..instead of the powder burning, it simply detonates.
you have to use fillers (like pillows are stuffed with)to keep the small charge pushed up against the primer hole....its a REAL PITA and thats why the ones that do make it charge 50.00 for 20 rounds.
so you are stuck with the sonic boom out of ye old M4.....still draws unwanted attention if you fired it in your back yard in a normal neiborhood.
So how many suppressors do you own Tiny? Have you been using suppressed automatic weapons since 1981 like I have ?

they(meaning the gun industry) can make several 9mm para subgun only loads(that will wreck a pistol quickly)
but they cant sell a rifle only 5.7 load????lol and even if they dont..I can make them, I have the technology, I can make it stronger, faster(que the six million dollar man sound effects):D

[BigEd63]

That round was meant as a special purpose AP round. Without that it's just a centrfire between .22magnum and .22Hornet in power. Which puts it in a slot that probably never needed to be filled in the first place.

I have no idea why FN is tying to push this round off into the civiy market unless their sales in the military/police market is a bust.

[swingset]

They'll fly off the shelves, I'm sure. :rolleyes:

[gdvan01]

a MannlicherNow that's funny... :eek:

[dfaugh]

Well, I'll go against all the other conventional wisdom, and say that this COULD be a kinda neat idea. Lightweight carbine, for short range varmint hunting----could be fun. Not high on my list, but fun.

[High Planes Drifter]

"I'll take things that are useless for $200.00, Alex" :D

[mikejonestkd]

It just doesn't make sense in a bolt rifle, not that it makes much sense overall...:)

[RevolverLover]

I don't see the point? :confused:

[p99guy]

That round was meant as a special purpose AP round.-BigEd

A special purpose AP round? lol,No it was ment to be given to Military police, tank crews, truck drivers, telephone linemen, helicopter crews, clerk typists, and anyone else that would normally be given a 9mm pistol or submachinegun.(but not assault rifle)
it actually fills the exact role of the WW2 M1 carbine. there are about 9 different
loads so far, 2 with the excellant Hornady V-Max bullet. And as I explained before and nobody can read, is that loaded to its full potential it isnt between a .22 mag and a Hornet...its as capable as a Hornet..there is no in between. As a small game cartridge there is nothing wrong with it at all,
even if you are agast at any other use.

if you dont have a use for a .22 Hornet you wouldnt have a use for this...but I dont see anybody giving the Hornet a rough time "cus its not a .223"

[atblis]

No, they don't give the hornet a "rough" time because it's not a 223. They just buy a 223, and forget that the hornet even exists.

But seriously, what is FN trying to do with this? Have a pistol/carbine/bolt rifle marketable as a package to LE? Is the bolt rifle primarily intended for use with a silencer?

[p99guy]

I dont work for FN...but being there will be a sporting version with pretty blued steel and wood, and a PBR which will look like the .308 PBR only smaller and lighter(Parkerized/synthetic stock)..and will take five Seven pistol mags...Im sure there are several things in mind. But as a suppressed weapon it will work out quite well....easier and cheaper to whip up subsonic loads without KABOOMS(too little powder is just as bad as too much), less muzzle gas volume for the 5.56 suppressor to deal with in either regular and subsonic
loads while firing the same exact bullets as the 5.56 in the subsonic loads.
It will be quieter than 5.56x45 in either mode of ammo though the can(just as an example) with service ammo The best 5.56 "can" can remove 90 to 95% of the muzzle blast, but you still have the super sonic crack, and the noise of the action cycling if you arent using a bolt gun.....a 5.56 can on the other hand should contain a 100% of the Muzzle blast when used with normal 5.7
still a sonic crack, but no action noise using the bolt gun. with subsonic 55gr
you will be able to hear the hammer hit the firing pin and the thump of the bullet ( just like shooting a suppressed Ruger 77/22)
The difference being from that 77/22.is your shooting a 40 lead bullet at subsonic speed Vs a jacketed M193 5.56 bullet doing the same speed
its going to do a better job taking out a guard dog than the .22LR for example...the M193 5.56 bullet @1000fps at the muzzle will still make it through a IIIA vest at 50 yards where as the 77/22 wont do that.

Just like anything else, its not for everyone and everything...use what is best for what you do.

[Moloch]

A 5.7FN bolt action rifle is something very.......different.

But if theyre going to build bolt actions with pistol caliber bullets they should chamber the 7,62x25 TT from the Tokarev. Maybe with a 18'' barrel and a 8-shot detachable magazine.:)

A lot more Power and it would almost be like a .30 carbine; that would be a neat cheap varmint or small game rifle.

[p99guy]

Ruger has been building bolt action rifles in .44MAG and .44 Special, the 77/44 and alot of those are being snatched up and integrally suppressed.
The 7.62x25 falls short of .30 M1 carbine even from submachinegun lenth barrels...I have fired alot of it from a CZ26 subgun...the blunt 86 gr fmj bullet
while it will poke a LII and about 400 pages of dry phone book behind it
5.7x28 SS192 hollow points from the pistol will do the same panel and 2 900 page dry phone books, and so will .30M1 carbine. we have tested them.

As much as soldiers bitched about the .30M1 carbine in Korea...it was never in question you could get that guy out there with a PPSH41 or 43 at greater distances than he could get you.

the CZ26 I was using
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/557/mvc001s8hj.jpg

[cheygriz]

A bolt action 5.7 makes as much sense as the WSSM and SAUM series. That is to say, not much.:p

[M1911]

A bolt action 5.7 makes as much sense as the WSSM and SAUM series. I'll disagree with you there about the WSSM. The WSM and WSSM offer the same ballistics as standard cartridges, but in a much shorter overall length. That allows for a shorter and thus lighter receiver. My Kimber 270 WSM weighs about 6 lbs. With scope.

When I'm hiking up and down steep hills with a pack on my back, every pound I can cut out helps. YMMV.

[atblis]

but how much weight do you think that 1/2" of receiver and stock accounts for? Not too much.

I have to give the gun community credit on the SAUM/WSSM thing. They sure didn't bite on that marketing gimmick.

So, this bolt rifle is intended for suppresion. Is FN going to supply subsonic ammunition that is cheaper than subsonic 5.56? I kinda doubt it.

[p99guy]

Do you even know what subsonic 5.56 costs? Do you own a suppressor? would this impact your life in anyway? if the answer is no, to any or all of those(need I say it)

the Sb193 subsonic ammo that FN makes is still considered to be AP...so no your not likely to go to the local gun shop and buy 5 boxes...will be easy enough to make subsonic loads for it though....Its going to be good for what ever you would use a .22 Hornet for(please dont fixate on only one attribute, its not made for only one thing)..and yes people do still use the Hornet( there is a new suppressor on the market specifically made for the .22 Hornet
so somebody is still using them. Even if they arent a member here.

used to folks were happy that a gun company was making an effort....in stead of the indignant "how dare they make that" I wish HK would start making 4.6x30 civy guns just to give everybody something different to be agast/shocked/offended/indignant over. I also like the "If I dont have use for it, its obviously has no place on this earth" frame of mind..now that one is funny, pompus but funny. :)

[Jason280]

But as a suppressed weapon it will work out quite well....easier and cheaper to whip up subsonic loads without KABOOMS(too little powder is just as bad as too much), less muzzle gas volume for the 5.56 suppressor to deal with in either regular and subsonic
loads while firing the same exact bullets as the 5.56 in the subsonic loads.
It will be quieter than 5.56x45 in either mode of ammo though the can(just as an example) with service ammo The best 5.56 "can" can remove 90 to 95% of the muzzle blast, but you still have the super sonic crack, and the noise of the action cycling if you arent using a bolt gun.....a 5.56 can on the other hand should contain a 100% of the Muzzle blast when used with normal 5.7
still a sonic crack, but no action noise using the bolt gun. with subsonic 55gr
you will be able to hear the hammer hit the firing pin and the thump of the bullet ( just like shooting a suppressed Ruger 77/22)

I'm not sure I follow your logic here. First, I have not heard of anyone blowing up .223/5.56 weapons using subsonic rounds. Its fairly easy to load heavier 77gr bullets subsonic with slow burning powders, so there really isn't a risk of an unsafe pressure spike. Second, a subsonic 55gr bullet out of a 5.7 is exactly the same as one out of a .223/5.56. Either way, the bullet is travelling around 1040fps and will have the same terminal results in either cartridge. Third, the noise of the suppressed subsonic round out of either gun should be virtually the same. Now, of course you will have the noise of the action on a semiauto, but you can just as easily use a bolt .223 as you can a bolt 5.7. Furthermore, you still hear the "crack" of either if you use supersonic ammo (except you will have a lot heavier bullet to use in the .223/5.56).

A bolt 5.7 is a neat concept, but I feel the extreme price of ammo will greatly limit its appeal. Hell, most of the overpriced ammo for the 5.7 isn't even available to civilians, which includes the SS193 subsonic round (sales to civilians is restricted).

[p99guy]

still cheaper than .22Hornet by $12 to $18 per 50 rounds........takes 20 and 30 rd magazines as well
the less gas volume applies to regular store bought supersonic rounds but if loading to be subsonic in the five inch pistol barrel(they make Five Seven suppressor too) then you will have less powder than a .223 subsonic as well.
I know...how dare they even make the bolt action, it an abomonation against god.
one more time...Dont buy one, if you dont want one. after me class...dont buy one if you dont want one.
(the following still applies)
used to folks were happy that a gun company was making an effort....in stead of the indignant "how dare they make that" I wish HK would start making 4.6x30 civy guns just to give everybody something different to be agast/shocked/offended/indignant over. I also like the "If I dont have use for it, its obviously has no place on this earth" frame of mind..now that one is funny, pompus but funny.
Yesterday 09:18 PM

[FirstFreedom]

I'm gonna reverse my self a bit and say that I can this as being useful in very limited circumstances:

1. You're already a 5.7x28mm tactical kind of guy. You have a FiveseveN and a P90. You reload for them.

2. You also happen to like to shoot varmints (not common among the "tactical" crowd but not unheard of either), and you want a 200 yard round in between a rimfire and a .223 for low recoil & noise - you're considering .221 rem fireball, .219 wasp, .22 hornet, .218 bee, .20 Calhoon, etc. - well in that case going with what you already have makes sense. Plus, as P99 points out, it's cheaper than .22 hornet. Moreover, the brass of 5.7 has GOT to be more durable for reloading than .22 hornet brass, giving you more reloads.

So yeah, I suppose it has a raison d'etre when you throw in the varmints. But obviously, it makes no sense as a "tactical/precision/sniper" rifle round for LEO/.mil.

[p99guy]

FirstFreedom, thank you for your well reasoned words. I humbly tip my hat to you.

[atblis]

If the rifle is reasonably priced,
and
If the ammunition is reasonably priced,
Then it may be interesting (a fun little plinking rifle).

[M1911]

atblis: For me, every little bit helps. It may not be useful to you. It is to me.

[seeker_two]

Maybe not in a rifle...but in a 4-6" L-frame seven-shooter with moon clips would make for a dandy little varmint shooter and make more sense than the .223 revolver that Taurus is thinking of making... :eek:

[joshua]

I'd get one if they ever offer a contender carbine barrel in the 5.7. Actually the .17Fireball Remmy is also sounding very good. josh

[joshua]

I'd get one if they ever offer a contender carbine barrel in the 5.7. Actually the .17Fireball Remmy is also sounding very good. josh