I need to coat my HK P7. What should I use? NP3?

[thaddeus]

As the title says, I need to coat my HK P7 M13 with a corrosion inhibitive coating (technical enough wording for everyone?). I am not above spending as much money as necessary, but I don't want to throw my money away either. What is the best bang for the buck?

How about someone that knows the popular ones, give me a list of their qualities and prices? What makes one better than the other?
I have heard of so many different kinds, but I don't know what sets them apart.

This IS a very expensive pistol, and I will pay to have it done correctly, but as I said, I don't need to throw my money away just to get the latest fad unless it is really worth it.

thanks,
thaddeus

[ATM]

Thaddeus -

No doubt about it, get the externals ROGARD'd and the insides NP3'd. This will cost between 250 and 350 to accomplish, if I recall correctly from my last read of ROBAR's price list.

Not only will your gun look better, it will be corrosion resistant and function better in cold weather. Remember both coatings, like most out there today, are essentially self-lubricating. Meaning a coated gun needs less oil/grease then an uncoated gun does.

I know two people who have had this done, and swear by it. As soon as my P7M8 gets in I am sending my PSP and M13 off to be done.

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Freedom is not Free

[Rich Lucibella]

I've got a Colt Officer and a Commander in NP3. I'm not easy on my tools. It's held up admirably.
Rich

[Walt Welch]

Thad; why are you having your pistol refinished at all? Proper application of a Marine Tuf-Cloth should protect the original finish, even in your humid environment.

Also, I thought you were a poor college student; what are you doing with a P7 and a 1911??? Walt

[thaddeus]

Heh heh, Doc, I had to take some time off of school a few years ago and I used that time to buy some toys. I have sold most of them - thousands of dollars worth of exotic rifles to name a few - in order to pay my tuition, but fortunatly I have clung onto a few remnant toys, and they are the pinnacle of my humble collection that remains.

a couple questions ATM- why not NP3 the whole thing?

How do I get it coated? Just send it in? Do I have to remove anything like the sight or handle scales?
Are there any lesser expensive methods? I have heard of good coats for $100. Are they bad?

Lastly - Doc, I carry IWB and the P7 rusts like crazy. Tuff Cloths are actually pretty expensive and a hassle. I also want the gun to last my lifetime, and I hear that a good coating will eliminate wear.

thanks,
thad

[Jeff Thomas]

It's not an HK, but I called Sigarms today to see what it would cost to have their 'K-Kote' applied to a blued P228. They say $60, and that is the slide only - takes 2 to 3 weeks. [for comparison purposes] I wonder how this compares to Roguard and NP3?

FYI, if you don't have it: http://www.robarguns.com/index.html , and they have a pretty good section on finishes.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited February 23, 1999).]

[old biker]

Thadd, I'm totally satisfied with hardchrome on my P-7s. My M-13 has lived in boats, Harleys and sno-gos for over 10yrs with out rusting. The PSP is still hanging in too. The only problem with NP-3 is the softness of the finish. I met Robbie in New Orleans at Shot some years back, I scratched his sample with a key. Badly.

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AFFA

[Kodiac]

I'ld go with ATM's suggestion - I've seen NP3 flake off after the 3rd year of use.



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Resistance is Futile

[Tim Burke]

IIRC, Robbie warranties both NP-3 & Roguard against flaking for life. When pushed on this, he admits the warranty is for the duration of _his_ life, but I think he's just being honest. It may have been just one of the two finishes that was guaranteed for life, but I thought it was both.
I have a 1911 with Roguard ext / NP-3 int, and an Officer's ACP that is all NP-3, and I've been happy with both. NP-3 is rather slick, though. My front strap is checkered, so this doesn't bother me. YMMV.
TB., NC

[Mike Spight]

Thaddeus: My vote goes for hard chrome as well. As I passed to someone yesterday ref a similar question, I have two S&W snubbies that I normally carry IWB...when stationed in Tampa FL, I had Bob Cogan of Accurate Plating and Weaponry aka Cogan Custom apply satin finish hard chrome to both. It is extremely hard...way up there on the Rockwell Hardness Scale...I cant't remember the exact number...virtually impervious to corrosion...although it WILL eventually show corrosion if you don't wipe down/clean your weapons...Bottom line, it's not extraordinarily expensive (approx $150 each per snubbie), it looks great (can be applied in a matte, satin, or high polish finish) and it works...AP&W is located in Safety Harbor FL, just north of Clearwater. Call Bob Cogan and he can can supply the tech data that I can't remember.

[BlkHawk73]

I had my HK USP re-coated by Robar. The internals all in NP3 and externals in Rogard. Looks nicer and functons smoother than the original finish. Seems to withstand more use and abuse to. It made it through Thunder Ranch without a scratch. Took 3 - 4 weeks and cost, i believe, $280. Give a call to customer service. They're a great help with any questions and suggestions. Good Luck!

[David Wright]

thaddeus, I would strongly urge that you check out www.tigold.com (I think).

I have this on several guns including a P7, and it is far, far superior(including cost) to anything out there. It has superior lubricity, wear resistance and a selection of colors. The down side is that they usually take awhile to do it. As a bonus, should they ever have to remove it, a special auqeous solution will wash it away overnight(by them only) if you want to change colors or texture. It is the best, bar none, and almost nobody knows about it! Go figure.

[thaddeus]

Okay, thanks, this is very helpful and I am starting to understand it all (there are so many coatings!).
I will look into the tigold.

Is the hardchrome the kind of hardchrome that is used on Mad Dog knives?

thanks,
thad

[This message has been edited by thaddeus (edited February 23, 1999).]

[Kurt]

I've re-refinished half a dozen pistols. Each time, I've made an extensive study of all the latest coatings and processes, talked to numerous experts, cogitated on what I'd learned -- and then I go with hard chrome!!!

Nothing really beats hard chrome in terms of durability, corrosion resistance, etc. I'm actually starting to get bored with the color; but nonetheless, it is the best coating!

Bob Cogan in Clearwater, FL does do very good work. Quite a few notable gunsmith's use Bob exclusively. Bob is very knowledgable about the various coatings available and can do just about all of them.
Even so, his preference? Hard Chrome.

Good luck,

Kurt

[DEC]

What is the best BLACK finish available?

[Mike Spight]

DEC: Believe it or not, AP&W (Bob Cogan) can even put a black chrome finish on a weapon. Contact him at AP&W for all the details...if it is as hard as "hardchrome" with the same corrosion and scratch resistance, it would be hard to beat. There is a coating called "Black-T" (or something like that) available as well, but I can't remember who does it....SIG's proprietory "K-kote" is also flat black, but they only apply it to slides, and probably only on SIGs.

[David Wright]

Kurt, the nitride coatings far, far surpass
the very best hard chrome available (or anything else) regardless of cost. It surpasses them in lubricity, durability, wear resistance, corrosion resistance, chip resistance, impact resistance, color selection, cost, easy to remove with no damage to the firearm whatsoever and so on.

Not my opinion or gun rag hearsay, but scientific fact. I can think of two known gunsmiths in Texas that don't like nitride, but they don't really know anything at all about it, and, more importantly, they don't market or sell the service. :) I guess that's to be expected in this industry. What benefit would it be to ask someone that doesn't know?

The coating technology experts have known the benefits of this process for many years. I've heard claims regarding the superiority of other processes, but they haven't passed scrutiny yet.

If someone isn't in love with a particular plating process or a brand name, nitride is the best. :)

[ATM]

Thaddeus -

Sorry I did not answer sooner, I was out of the pocket yesterday. I picked ROGARD for the outside because NP3 is not black, and as noted previously NP3 is soft. ROGARD is harder then NP3. There is only one color for a P7, IMHO, that is black.

DEC -

I think ROGARD is, although Black T by Walter Birdsong has a proven track record also.

Mike - see above for Black T source.

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Freedom is not Free

[thaddeus]

I emailed TiGold a couple days ago with no response.

My buddy called them and they said that they were not interested in dealing with anyone but Gun dealers/manufacturers. They did say however, that the Black-Ti was $150, which is not all that cheap.

I did call Robar, and the NP3/Roguard combo of my choice is $225.

I am thinking of going with Metacol 3 from www.arizonaresponsesystems.com....it is only $100 and comes highly recommended!

Anyone know about Metacol 3?

thanks,
thad

[Morgan]

Metacol 3 is raved about on SIG-L, and well considered on HK-L. Gunplumber is a no-bull, straight-shooting good guy, near as I can tell. I even e-mailed him this thread, and he discussed it with me but won't resort "crass commercialism" by bragging here.

Anyway, he's who I'd go to if I needed a gun refinished. I understand he does good smith work, also. <a href="http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com">Here's</a> his site.

[Mark King]

I'll agree that the Robar products are simply outstanding. I had a Colt Officer's ACP finished in Roguard for the exterior surfaces and NP3 on all the internals. The pistol is carried regularly (amost every day) I've seen no evidence of holster wear or corrosion of any type, that's pretty admirable as in the summer months I sweat all over the gun. As I recall for Robar to finish the entire weapon was right at $200. I've also heard good things about Walter Birdsong's Black-T. I have a couple of Benchmade knives with the Black-T coating and it's heald up remarkably well considering the abuse I given them. Mark/FL

[David Wright]

For the sake of clarity, I just spoke with Tigold corporate, and, unfortunately, due to the overwhelming workload of their main business(tool plating), they can only do large LE or manufacturing contracts right now.

They do not have a specific date when they can accept individual jobs. There is another major player in this business, and I will try to find particulars on what they do and how much it costs, if anyone is interested.