PDA

View Full Version : Let's talk about 9 mm revolvers


Erich
February 8, 2001, 10:27 AM
I remember when I saw my first 9 mm revolver (a S&W 547) I thought it was silly (tho I liked the auto-eject feature). Only six rounds (9mils were all hi-cap at the time), plus it had a bbl/cylinder gap and the bbl was only 3" long so one wouldn't get the full 9 mm ballistics. Besides, why not get a .357 if you wanted a revolver?

Well, over the years I figured out that the shorter bbl length might not be such an issue. An auto's bbl length encompasses the cylinder as well, and - even if it's vented at the gap - the 9 mm revolver's bbl isn't too short for the cartridge according to ballistics figures I've read. (It looked like the 9 was doing better than a .38 +P out of the same bbl length.)

And for a while (late '80s/early '90s), lots were being made. Ruger had the Speed Six in 9mm, and later they made the SP-101. S&W brought out a model 60 in 9 mm.

But they've all gone away! For some reason (probably lack of sales due to folks who thought like me), 9mm revolvers aren't made anymore. And it's occured to me lately that, given how cheap and readily available 9mm blasting ammo has become, it would be great to have one.

So, who's owned a 9 mm revolver? Have you kept it? Do you like it? Anyone run a chrono on one? Anyone seen any for sale lately? Should I get a Gun List and try to get one? Which model?

Mike Irwin
February 8, 2001, 10:52 AM
The 9mm revolver was made first primarily for European sales, and then came into the commercial US market.

S&W test bedded the 9mm in a run of Model 19s, and then came out with the 547 in both 3" roundbutt and 4" square butt configurations.

Later they brought out the Model 940, a J-frame Centennial in 9mm. I don't think that the Model 60 was ever offered in 9mm, but I could be wrong about that.

The 940 was a departure from the 547 in that it used a standard extractor system, not the funky spring fingers. Ammo could be shot in moon clips, which allowed easy extraction, or without the clips, which required punching the cases out with a pencil.

I've never owned one, but I've fired a 547, 940, and SP101. Fun guns, but not different enough from a .38 +P in a similarly sized gun to make me want to run out and buy one.

Probably the most readily availble today is the SP101.

taco
February 8, 2001, 11:48 AM
From what I've seen, performance of 9mm from revolvers are closer to 357mag than 38 Special +P but the recoil feels closer to 38 Special.

Only thing I didn't like about the revolvers I tried (S&W J frames and Ruger SP101) required half or full moon clips for extraction. These clips were pretty delicate and would bend and put pressure against the face plate. I never tried the K frame S&W revolvers with the special extractor which does not use clips so I can't comment on them. Also, accuracy of few revolvers I've shot were not as good as their 38 Special or 357 Magnum versions.

Overall, if the J frame and SP101 didn't have to use clips I think I would be interested in one... especially if the J frame was available in Airweight model.

James K
February 8, 2001, 12:37 PM
There was for a while a 9mm rimmed made for those revolvers. Charter made a revolver for it. The case length was the same as the 9mm P. and the chambers of the Charter had a shoulder so the 9mm P. would fire in it. IIRC, the Charter had no fancy extractor, though, so the 9mm pistol cases had to be extracted manually.

The only use of any of those revolvers was by police officers or (mostly foreign) departments who wanted revolvers but who had to use standard 9mm pistol ammo. Mostly, it was an idea whose time "has went".

In spite of the much discussed cylinder gap, a 9mm in a revolver is about the same as in an auto pistol of the same barrel length (including the revolver cylinder in the comparison). In other words, it is a relatively warm .38 Special.

There were also revolvers, including converted S&W M&P models, which used 9mm P. with half moon clips, but these were not the topic here.

Jim

Mike Irwin
February 8, 2001, 02:05 PM
Jim,

Charter's gun was called the Pit Bull, IIRC.

Federal had a cooperative effort going with Charter to develop the 9mm Federal cartridge specifically for that project.

Not long after the round & gun were announced, Charter went belly up, and Federal pulled the round from production soon after.

You're correct that it used a standard star extractor, as the primary round for the gun was the 9mm Federal.

WIL TERRY
February 8, 2001, 02:40 PM
The 9MM works remarkably well in a correctly chambered revolver and every S&W and Ruger I've ever clocked gave velocities well above your average 9MM shellshucker. The 2" M940 gave higher performance numbers routinely than 4" 9MM pistols. My 3" M940 thinks itself to be a low end 357 sixgun. It'll hit 1400fps with the 9mmFEDERAL-115JHP cartridge.
But then again you'll miss the fun of digging your spent brass out of the rattlesnake holes. There is always a down side, folks. TM

jimmy
February 8, 2001, 04:47 PM
I have a 4-inch Model 547 and enjoy it. To me, it feels like a heavy barrel Model 10 shooting .38 Special +P. The extractor system is clever, fairly well made, and functional, although I find it a bit tricky to operate in certain respects. I had a chance to get a 3-inch 547, passed on it, and wish I hadn't.

I'd gladly have bought a 940, but never encountered one for sale.

That said, do these 9mm revolvers do anything that a .38 or .357 revolver can't do? Other than to shoot 9mm cartridges, I think the answer is no.

Jeff OTMG
February 8, 2001, 04:55 PM
I have a 2" 940 and really like it. The Corbon 115gr HP was chrono'd faster than all .357 loads test out of a 3" mod 65, but one, the 125gr Federal JHP. The .357 only beat the 9mm by 150fps. The 9mm small case capacity does not require a long barrel to burn all of the powder as the slow burning magnum powder in the .357 does. I did not test the .357 out of the 2" J-frames because they were not in production when the tests were done. The recoil of a hot 9mm in a J-frame is comparable to a 158gr LSWHP in an alloy j-frame. You don't want to shoot it much. I was able to pick up a couple of boxes of Federal 9mm Rimmed at a Dallas gun show and find it much easier to shoot than the 115gr Corbon in the full moon clips. The only downside to the 940 that I have seen is that when shooting hot loads the brass tends to stick and is hard to extract when the gun heats up. I will be sending mine back to S&W someday to see if anything can be done about this.

Biathlonman
February 8, 2001, 04:57 PM
I have a S&W 940, and I am not fond of it. Nothing wrong with it, I just decided that I don't like J-frames. I bought a model 60 and the 940 at the same time. The 60 I have already parted with and the 940 I imagine I will be parting with soon. One day at the shooting range I relized that the little revolver had just about the same dimensions as my H&K P7M8, held less rounds, and I can't shoot it as well. I love K-frames but the Js just don't do it for me.

DennisE
February 8, 2001, 05:29 PM
Don''t know about all them S&Ws but I sure like my 4 5/8" Blackhawk .357magnum/9mm convertible. Despite what some folks have said, these guns are very accurate shooting 9mm, .357 Magnum or .38 Specials out of the same barrel, or al least mine is. One of the best serious, fun guns out there! :) DennisE

9mmepiphany
February 8, 2001, 06:18 PM
jimmy - spare ammo is easier to carry for a 9mm j-frame than a .38. you carry your spare ammo in a pistol clip and just thumb them into your emputy cylinder.

the 940 was designed as a back-up gun to officers carrying wundernines as their duty weapon. if their primary weapon went down or was lost (dropped?), they could transition to their backup gun and keep reloading from their pistol mags.

remember that when they started making these 9mm snubbies, the mini-glocks and kahrs didn't exist.

Ed Brunner
February 8, 2001, 08:11 PM
I recall reading about a revolver, I think the name was Medusa, maybe not. It was a 9mm revolver that could accommodate any .38/9mm caliber ammo. Supposed to appeal to world travelers.

Bart Noir
February 9, 2001, 03:13 PM
9mmepiphany,
I had a 940 and then sold it, for all the reasons stated. Heavy, only 5 rounds, hard to hit, kicked much with +P rounds, but worst of all, it jammed. With +P rounds, 3 shots and it was seized up, every time I loaded a cylinder. The hot rounds cause the empties to back out and they have swelled so much from being fired, that they don't go back into the chambers. The wheel don't turn then. Maybe a certain +P brand won't do this but I didn't want to keep buying ammo until I found some that didn't jam. Now I have the Kahr P9.
I just can't see cops reloading their 940's from their full sized bottom-feeders (service pistols, not lawyers). If they can remove cases from the moon clips (they carry a tool for this?), and then strip rounds from the bottom-feeder's magazine, then snap the rounds into the moon clip, then put the moon clip back in the 940, why, the fight's over or SWAT has arrived or the bottom-feeding service pistol can be unjammed instead.
Bart Noir
When guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns.

Bill Adair
February 10, 2001, 12:47 AM
Erich,

Just bought a 4 inch square butt 547 last weekend. I've yet to shoot it, but have high expectations for this little beauty. It took me months to find one!

Mine is in excellent condition, and I'm told it is probably collectable, but I intend to shoot it anyway.

I bought it for a number of reasons, but primarily because I like 9mm ballistics, like 9mm ammo prices, hate chasing brass (I reload), and wanted a wonderfully smooth Smith & Wesson trigger. I fully expect this to me the most accurate 9mm I've ever fired.

I would have considered a Ruger with 4 inch barrel, but couldn't find one, and think I'll be happier with the 547 extraction system, than with the moon clips normally used in the Rugers, and S&W 940.

Chrono data will be recorded when weather permits!

Bill

gringo5
February 10, 2001, 09:13 AM
I bought a nib S&W 547 4" about 3 years ago and love it however when using +p sometimes it is a real bear to eject the shells. i need to tap the rod on the table a bit to get them out. but the gun is great to shoot

Dave R
February 10, 2001, 12:24 PM
Doesn't one of the major manufacturers make a .357/.38/9mm revolver called the "Survivor"? I guess they call it that because it will use so many kinds of ammo...I assume bacause it will take moon clips as well as rimmed cartridges.

Anyone heard of this? I thought it is available today.

M58
February 10, 2001, 06:06 PM
Could be; I only recall the Medusa doing that, but...

Any how, I had a 940 10 years back; I liked it; shot like a mild .357; fast to reload--moon clips; but, that was the weakness. Moon clips bent easily even with a tool and would then bind up the cylinder.

When the mini .357 Sig came out, I sold the 940.

I wanted the 547 in 3" but only saw 4" ones at the shows.

Oh well.

Maleman
February 10, 2001, 10:14 PM
I had a S&W 940 for a short while but found that ejecting the spent cases could be a problem. The owners manual tells you that you may have to try different brands of ammo to find one that ejects reliably. After needing a hammer to tap them out a few times I just got rid of the thing. Other than that I didn't have any problems but that was enough.

Erich
February 10, 2001, 11:26 PM
I've got a Glock 33 in the 357 Sig as well, but - having read what everyone's said - I think I'm going to start keeping an eye out for a 9 mm revolver. A 3" round-butt 547 would be supercool, and I'd even be willing to risk the 940's sticky cylinder. I suppose an SP-101 would be my first choice, but I think I've only seen a couple of those in 9 mm ever.

Great. Now I've got something else to buy. Thanks all!

M58
February 11, 2001, 12:32 AM
No problem.
We must keep the economy rolling.:)

Jim March
February 11, 2001, 01:12 AM
...we may have a good reason for shooting 9mm in a revolver.

The cool part about a Blackhawk in 9mm/357 is, you can take one of those cheapo 30rd 9mm high-cap mags that always jam up your HiPower or Glock or whatever, and use it as a speedloader for your SA :). With 30rds on tap, that means the one stick can pack five complete reloads spat directly into the loading gate :D.

Jim