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bullfrog99 · April 22, 2001, 04:30 PM

first of all, i don't feel i should have to defend any of my comments i wrote. If you don't beleive me, look it up.

quotes from mike irwin
"(hollowpoint rounds for the 7.62 are kind of hard to find, even now)"

Mike,I found them in the current issure of midway usa catalog, $10.49 for 100, they even have an 85 grain weight now.

"My MilSpec 1911 will feed Remington Golden Sabre 230-gr. HPs without a hitch"

try a few fired cases, and you'll see what i'm talking about

"I'll be sure, though, to choose the Tokarev for the next time that I'm attacked by a herd of 10-lb. watermelons"

If i didn't know better i'de think that was in insult.

Quotes from 444
"The 1911 is the handgun by which all others are judged"

the 1911 is the handgun by which the tokarev is based, rather it's simplified(meaning more reliable)but less refined,(meaning no safty, and no fancy trigger pulls)

"If it was comparable to the 1911 it would be in widespread use by police, military, serious competitive shooters etc.; but it is not"

the us military dropped the 1911 in '85, the only thing keeping it alive is the american public, the tokarev is russian, and last i heard their public wasn't allowed to play with things that go boom. as for "serious competitive shooting" I dare you to take a tricked out race gun into combat. as for police, the american police have this thing about liability, something about bullets that will always pass thru the target would probably scare them. besides, the only automatics they seem to be interested in are the "wonder nines" and now the "wonder 40's"(btw in japan where the cops have carried the tokarev in the past they use special tokarev rated body armor, because standard stuff that will stop the aformentioned "110 grain bullet (twice the weight of the 60 grain Tokarov bullet) at over 1900 fps out of a .357((btw with what a 10" barrel?))." will NOT stop the tokarev round.)

"As far as penetrating a brown bear from front to back; Please. I would be happy if I could get that kind of penetration from a .375 H&H let alone a Tokarov"

Look it up, as for the 375 part, i don't think that even requires a response.

"If this cartridge was flawless, I would imagine that it would be offered by many of the large manufacturers of handguns today"

americans don't like metric rounds. How many rifles are chambered in 7.62x39, and how many variations of the ammo are loaded by how many american companys? 2 by winchester and 2 by remington. how many variations are there of the .308 winchester, get my point. Heck the only metric rounds that made it were the 7mm's and half the time they are called .284 anyways. The ammo manufacturers got around this, ever heard of a 357 sig?--- 400 cor-bon--- 440 cor-bon magnum---perhaps 353 casull? bottle necked rounds feed better, that's why your 375 has a bottle neck and not a straight taper, it was the first african round designed to be shot from a bolt action, which needed absolute reliability of loading, again look it up.

I'm sorry if this seems snappy, but i don't like to be treated like i'm an idiot,when the other guy doesn't even take the time to look up something before 'jumpin on the soap box'. thank you .357SIG and IZZY, for backing me up before i got a chance to respond.

444 When you get your CZ-52, and actually give it a workout, maybe you'll see the light.

April 22, 2001, 04:30 PM	#17
bullfrog99 Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2000 Location: Southeast Michigan Posts: 811	first of all, i don't feel i should have to defend any of my comments i wrote. If you don't beleive me, look it up. quotes from mike irwin "(hollowpoint rounds for the 7.62 are kind of hard to find, even now)" Mike,I found them in the current issure of midway usa catalog, $10.49 for 100, they even have an 85 grain weight now. "My MilSpec 1911 will feed Remington Golden Sabre 230-gr. HPs without a hitch" try a few fired cases, and you'll see what i'm talking about "I'll be sure, though, to choose the Tokarev for the next time that I'm attacked by a herd of 10-lb. watermelons" If i didn't know better i'de think that was in insult. Quotes from 444 "The 1911 is the handgun by which all others are judged" the 1911 is the handgun by which the tokarev is based, rather it's simplified(meaning more reliable)but less refined,(meaning no safty, and no fancy trigger pulls) "If it was comparable to the 1911 it would be in widespread use by police, military, serious competitive shooters etc.; but it is not" the us military dropped the 1911 in '85, the only thing keeping it alive is the american public, the tokarev is russian, and last i heard their public wasn't allowed to play with things that go boom. as for "serious competitive shooting" I dare you to take a tricked out race gun into combat. as for police, the american police have this thing about liability, something about bullets that will always pass thru the target would probably scare them. besides, the only automatics they seem to be interested in are the "wonder nines" and now the "wonder 40's"(btw in japan where the cops have carried the tokarev in the past they use special tokarev rated body armor, because standard stuff that will stop the aformentioned "110 grain bullet (twice the weight of the 60 grain Tokarov bullet) at over 1900 fps out of a .357((btw with what a 10" barrel?))." will NOT stop the tokarev round.) "As far as penetrating a brown bear from front to back; Please. I would be happy if I could get that kind of penetration from a .375 H&H let alone a Tokarov" Look it up, as for the 375 part, i don't think that even requires a response. "If this cartridge was flawless, I would imagine that it would be offered by many of the large manufacturers of handguns today" americans don't like metric rounds. How many rifles are chambered in 7.62x39, and how many variations of the ammo are loaded by how many american companys? 2 by winchester and 2 by remington. how many variations are there of the .308 winchester, get my point. Heck the only metric rounds that made it were the 7mm's and half the time they are called .284 anyways. The ammo manufacturers got around this, ever heard of a 357 sig?--- 400 cor-bon--- 440 cor-bon magnum---perhaps 353 casull? bottle necked rounds feed better, that's why your 375 has a bottle neck and not a straight taper, it was the first african round designed to be shot from a bolt action, which needed absolute reliability of loading, again look it up. I'm sorry if this seems snappy, but i don't like to be treated like i'm an idiot,when the other guy doesn't even take the time to look up something before 'jumpin on the soap box'. thank you .357SIG and IZZY, for backing me up before i got a chance to respond. 444 When you get your CZ-52, and actually give it a workout, maybe you'll see the light.