Could you suggest a suitable .38/.357 for new shooters?

Chad Young · January 9, 2002, 11:36 AM

With the new range open and only ten minutes from my house, I have been trying to make it a habit to take new shooters out to the range for an introduction to shooting. For safety and simplicity, I usually like to start newbies out on revolvers, preferably in .38spl. I am hoping you guys can suggest a few models for me to look for that would be good choices for the training role. The revolvers I have right now just do not quite fit the role properly (imagine my 5' tall female friend trying to hold up a Ruger GP-161!).

Requirements:
either .38spl or .357 mag (will shoot mostly .38spl)
barrel length 4-5"
Traditional rear sights, not just a groove in the top strap
Trigger pull that most women can handle easily
Trigger reach that most women can handle easily
Reliable and easy to operate

Suggestions?

Inspector Callahan · January 9, 2002, 11:40 AM

Colt Python. Colt Trooper. Colt Detective Special. Colt Cobra. Colt Agent.

Er, you get the idea.

Jim Watson · January 9, 2002, 12:13 PM

I recommend, and have used for the purpose, a S&W K-frame .38 or .357 with 4 inch barrel. Models 14, 15, 19, 66, 67.
Look at different grips. The Hogue seems to be about the slimmest mass produced grip. I don't like the finger grooves but I use them anyway.
Furnish .38 midrange wadcutters, no magnums, +P, or even ball until they have some experience.

Express your political views by buying a pre-deal, pre-MIM model. They are recognizeable by the firing pin on the hammer nose. That will not profit Saf T Hammer and will get you a smoother, lighter action at lower cost. Department armorer maintained PD tradeins are usually good buys.

By the way, a "groove in the top strap" IS the traditional revolver rear sight. But you have the right idea, the models listed have adjustable sights.

Ala Dan · January 9, 2002, 01:07 PM

Smith N' Wesson L-frame, 586/686 with either a four
or six inch barrel. Your female friend will be suprised
at how well she can hit the target's.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.

whiskey · January 9, 2002, 01:33 PM

Ruger GP100 4" Adjustable sights.

Tamara · January 9, 2002, 01:59 PM

Law Number Seven:

If: someone asks for a gun recommendation, and specifically excludes Gun X in their request, due to it being too heavy/big/small/expensive/cheap/ugly/powerful/wimpy,

Then: within 5 posts, someone will recommend Gun X.

Tamara · January 9, 2002, 02:06 PM

If she's five feet tall with tiny hands, I'd not recomment a Ruger GP or an L-frame. Very hard for those small of hand to get a proper double-action firing grip on without rolling the gun to the left in their hand rather than having the muzzle in a straight line with their forearm.

I'd say a K-frame or Taurus equivalent. Preferably all-steel with a full-underlug barrel to dampen muzzle flip.

Good for small-handed new shooters to get used to the idea of something going *bang* in their hands.

Pretty soon they start shooting magnums and run out and buy 1911's and such, especially if no one informs them that guns are supposed to "kick".

C.R.Sam · January 9, 2002, 02:07 PM

Agree with Jim Watson........S&W K frame blue, police turn in, 4". Often can be found with the factory thin two piece grips which are great with low power loads and small hands.

Sam

bountyh · January 9, 2002, 02:08 PM

Before you buy any gun pull the triggers on a SW 686 or 66. Smooth trigger is the primary determiner of accuracy, especially among new shooters. SW guns are also very easy to tweak to get lighter pull (springs are easy to install). I own both a 686 and 66 and they are my favorite guns.

Tamara · January 9, 2002, 02:22 PM

Rule Number Four:

If: Someone asks for a recommendation on a gun, and lays out certain requirements,

Then: within five posts someone will recommend a gun that does not fit the required characteristics, but is good "because I own one"/"it's my favorite".

Rule Number Twelve:

If: Someone asks for a recommendation on a gun, any gun (long gun, revolver, shotgun, whatever),

Then: within five posts, someone will recommend a Glock.

The Plainsman · January 9, 2002, 02:35 PM

on the assumption that your first post was in reference to whiskey's post, suggesting a Ruger GP-100 4", I believe that Chad mentioned a 6". As you are most certainly aware, the difference in weight and balance between the 4" and the 6" barrel can be significant.

I've got a GP-100 4" with Hogue finger groove grips and Wolff springs, that I'm confident would work great for a 5' lady. The Hogue grips make it slimmer, easier reach for the trigger. The gun is heavy enough to help reduce muzzle flip, yet well enough balanced with the shorter barrel, that they won't shoot their toe off. The SA trigger pull is very nice, light and smooth. I have used this same gun to introduce early teens, both male and female, to centerfire guns, without any problems at all.

I'd match this gun with any of my S&W wheelguns for trigger pull, weight, balance, etc. It's pleasure to shoot.

whiskey - I'll drink to your recommend.

Tamara · January 9, 2002, 02:46 PM

Ruger GP's.

Owned 'em. Shot 'em. Owned 4", 6", blued, stainless. Fine guns, like 'em a lot. Fact remains, however, that even with Hogues (which do help) their trigger reach is larger than K-frame-size guns.

[big silliness coming up...]

Oh, heck, I'll just recommend my favorite wheelgun too:

Get a 3" 629. Mine's been tuned by a good 'smith and has Wolff springs installed for a sweet sub-10# DA trigger and a single-action trigger that has to be felt to be believed. Very easy for a 5-foot newbie to pull the trigger on that one.

Make sure it's loaded with 300gr Cor-Bon's. That way after she struggles to hold it at eye-level, thumb-cocks it, has it go off by surprise (remember the hair trigger?) and it bounces off her forehead and skitters across the floor, you won't have to share the lane with anyone and can shoot by yourself in peace.

[/big silliness]

bkan · January 9, 2002, 03:38 PM

Iconcur with whiskey. Ruger GP 100 ,4in

whiskey · January 9, 2002, 03:44 PM

DOH, I admit I didn't read the last line about the female. But I would still recommend it. I am short with little hands, my wife is 5'2" with tiny ahands and likes the GP100 4", but if it is too big, then I recommend a.....GLOCK

tonyz · January 9, 2002, 04:08 PM

I also agree with the Ruger GP-100 or the Security Six or any of the older Ruger DA/SA revolvers. Great guns. Built like tanks.

Tonyz

chaim · January 9, 2002, 06:10 PM

I think the grips may be almost as important as the gun.

I had a used Taurus 82 in .38 with the old fashioned wood grips (the kind everyone sold as standard, well Taurus and S&W anyway, until those God forsaken rubber things became popular :barf: ). It is equivelent to a K-frame S&W so it isn't too big but is heavy enough that it is a pussycat with .38 target loads. Well a friend of the feminine variety tried to shoot it and the grips just weren't big enough. They kept her hand too far from the trigger so she had trouble with her very small hands (despite a revolver of probably perfect size). I really like the kind of grips found on the Ladysmith line of S&W revolvers (fill the hand, not too bulky, position your hand forward so those of us with shorter fingers can reach the trigger better).

I know this doesn't quite fit your criteria but also check out the S&W 65LS. It has a 3"barrel but is as accurate as any 4" I've shot and a little more handy. It is heavy enough to easily handle any .38 round and is comfortable with .357s (not just to me but to all my friends who have tried it). Even though the sights aren't adjustable they are easy to use, see and, like I said about the barrel length, quite accurate. Also, as the Ladysmith model 65 it has great grips (designed for use with smaller hands) and a great looking finish (can't hurt with anyone, women or men).

The 66 is almost the same gun with adjustable sights so I think it would be just as good (but you'd need to get the grips aftermarket if you were interested in them as there isn't a 66LS model). Both the 65 and 66 are available with 4" barrels though not as the Ladysmith model and I don't think it is necessary to go above 3" with these guns.

If you don't want the 65LS but are interested in the grips both S&W and Taurus sell these or similar grips on their websites (unfortunately I think the Taurus grips may only be for small framed revolvers). Of course there are many similarly styled and sized grips sold by many aftermarket manufacturers as well.

IF you want to see the gun or grips here is the pic: S&W 65LS with the grips I wrote about

Salt · January 9, 2002, 06:38 PM

I would recommend buying older S&W M10 (military & Police) .38 Special revolvers. Go with a 6" tapered barrel for the first gun, a 4" tapered barrel for the second gun.

They are very accurrate with light recoil, simple operation (DA), and are inexpensive when bought used.
The tapered barrels are light and make for good handling qualities, unlike those clunky bull barrels that they make standard today.

Forget the magnums, too much blast for the newbies. You can shoot .38's in a .357 magnum, but you get too much bulk, too much weight and its not a magnum anymore is it?

Thus I recommend a S&W M10 .38 special revolver.

mikey357 · January 10, 2002, 12:22 AM

Okay, Tamara...what are the REST of the "Rules"??? We want to know!!!...at least, I do....mikey357

Kermit · January 10, 2002, 12:29 AM

S&W 686 or 586. Definite keeper

When teaching someone to shoot, you have to have quality equipment.

Salt · January 10, 2002, 12:51 AM

The S&W Model 10 is a quality piece.

notbubba · January 10, 2002, 05:35 AM

S&W 686 with a 4" barrel.
A joy to shoot!

or a Glock

C.R.Sam · January 10, 2002, 09:40 AM

Tamara

I don't let large males shoot my light weight 29 with stompin loads lessen I know they can and won't drop it on the way to the aid station.

Sam...bang is good, BANG is more gooder.

Chad Young · January 10, 2002, 10:28 AM

I like the model 10 very much, but some new shooters have struggled with the rear notch sight a bit when I have used one to teach new shooters. Something like a model 10 but with adjustable sights would be darn near perfect.

Tamara - a bud of mine has a model 629 "Mountain Gun" with the 3" barrel. You would be amazed at how many small female types love shooting that thing! We load a 240gr JSP over 24.0gr of W296 and let 'em have at it. The noise and muzzle flash is quite startling. So far, none have shot all six rounds - I might have to marry the woman that could!

Tamara · January 10, 2002, 11:08 AM

Chad Young · January 10, 2002, 01:58 PM

What model is that? A 629?

January 9, 2002, 11:36 AM	#1
Chad Young Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 1999 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 601	Could you suggest a suitable .38/.357 for new shooters? With the new range open and only ten minutes from my house, I have been trying to make it a habit to take new shooters out to the range for an introduction to shooting. For safety and simplicity, I usually like to start newbies out on revolvers, preferably in .38spl. I am hoping you guys can suggest a few models for me to look for that would be good choices for the training role. The revolvers I have right now just do not quite fit the role properly (imagine my 5' tall female friend trying to hold up a Ruger GP-161!). Requirements: either .38spl or .357 mag (will shoot mostly .38spl) barrel length 4-5" Traditional rear sights, not just a groove in the top strap Trigger pull that most women can handle easily Trigger reach that most women can handle easily Reliable and easy to operate Suggestions?

January 9, 2002, 01:59 PM	#6
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	Tamara's Laws of Internet Gun Forums: Law Number Seven: If: someone asks for a gun recommendation, and specifically excludes Gun X in their request, due to it being too heavy/big/small/expensive/cheap/ugly/powerful/wimpy, Then: within 5 posts, someone will recommend Gun X. __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

January 9, 2002, 02:06 PM	#7
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	If she's five feet tall with tiny hands, I'd not recomment a Ruger GP or an L-frame. Very hard for those small of hand to get a proper double-action firing grip on without rolling the gun to the left in their hand rather than having the muzzle in a straight line with their forearm. I'd say a K-frame or Taurus equivalent. Preferably all-steel with a full-underlug barrel to dampen muzzle flip. Good for small-handed new shooters to get used to the idea of something going bang in their hands. Pretty soon they start shooting magnums and run out and buy 1911's and such, especially if no one informs them that guns are supposed to "kick". __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

January 9, 2002, 02:22 PM	#10
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	Tamara's Laws of Internet Gun Forums: Rule Number Four: If: Someone asks for a recommendation on a gun, and lays out certain requirements, Then: within five posts someone will recommend a gun that does not fit the required characteristics, but is good "because I own one"/"it's my favorite". Rule Number Twelve: If: Someone asks for a recommendation on a gun, any gun (long gun, revolver, shotgun, whatever), Then: within five posts, someone will recommend a Glock. __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

January 9, 2002, 02:35 PM	#11
The Plainsman Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2000 Location: Kansas Hill Country Posts: 449	Tamara.... on the assumption that your first post was in reference to whiskey's post, suggesting a Ruger GP-100 4", I believe that Chad mentioned a 6". As you are most certainly aware, the difference in weight and balance between the 4" and the 6" barrel can be significant. I've got a GP-100 4" with Hogue finger groove grips and Wolff springs, that I'm confident would work great for a 5' lady. The Hogue grips make it slimmer, easier reach for the trigger. The gun is heavy enough to help reduce muzzle flip, yet well enough balanced with the shorter barrel, that they won't shoot their toe off. The SA trigger pull is very nice, light and smooth. I have used this same gun to introduce early teens, both male and female, to centerfire guns, without any problems at all. I'd match this gun with any of my S&W wheelguns for trigger pull, weight, balance, etc. It's pleasure to shoot. whiskey - I'll drink to your recommend.

January 9, 2002, 11:40 AM	#2
Inspector Callahan Senior Member Join Date: September 1, 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 372	Colt Python. Colt Trooper. Colt Detective Special. Colt Cobra. Colt Agent. Er, you get the idea.

January 9, 2002, 12:13 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,614	I recommend, and have used for the purpose, a S&W K-frame .38 or .357 with 4 inch barrel. Models 14, 15, 19, 66, 67. Look at different grips. The Hogue seems to be about the slimmest mass produced grip. I don't like the finger grooves but I use them anyway. Furnish .38 midrange wadcutters, no magnums, +P, or even ball until they have some experience. Express your political views by buying a pre-deal, pre-MIM model. They are recognizeable by the firing pin on the hammer nose. That will not profit Saf T Hammer and will get you a smoother, lighter action at lower cost. Department armorer maintained PD tradeins are usually good buys. By the way, a "groove in the top strap" IS the traditional revolver rear sight. But you have the right idea, the models listed have adjustable sights.

January 9, 2002, 01:07 PM	#4
Ala Dan Member in memoriam Join Date: August 13, 1999 Location: In The HOT, Humid, and Mu Posts: 6,116	Smith N' Wesson L-frame, 586/686 with either a four or six inch barrel. Your female friend will be suprised at how well she can hit the target's. Best Wishes, Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.

January 9, 2002, 01:33 PM	#5
whiskey Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Location: Clarksville, TN Posts: 431	Ruger GP100 4" Adjustable sights.

January 9, 2002, 02:07 PM	#8
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Agree with Jim Watson........S&W K frame blue, police turn in, 4". Often can be found with the factory thin two piece grips which are great with low power loads and small hands. Sam

January 9, 2002, 02:08 PM	#9
bountyh Junior member Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: NaziFornia Posts: 908	Before you buy any gun pull the triggers on a SW 686 or 66. Smooth trigger is the primary determiner of accuracy, especially among new shooters. SW guns are also very easy to tweak to get lighter pull (springs are easy to install). I own both a 686 and 66 and they are my favorite guns.

January 9, 2002, 02:46 PM	#12
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	The Plainsman, Ruger GP's. Owned 'em. Shot 'em. Owned 4", 6", blued, stainless. Fine guns, like 'em a lot. Fact remains, however, that even with Hogues (which do help) their trigger reach is larger than K-frame-size guns. [big silliness coming up...] Oh, heck, I'll just recommend my favorite wheelgun too: Get a 3" 629. Mine's been tuned by a good 'smith and has Wolff springs installed for a sweet sub-10# DA trigger and a single-action trigger that has to be felt to be believed. Very easy for a 5-foot newbie to pull the trigger on that one. Make sure it's loaded with 300gr Cor-Bon's. That way after she struggles to hold it at eye-level, thumb-cocks it, has it go off by surprise (remember the hair trigger?) and it bounces off her forehead and skitters across the floor, you won't have to share the lane with anyone and can shoot by yourself in peace. [/big silliness] __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

January 9, 2002, 03:38 PM	#13
bkan Member Join Date: November 8, 2001 Location: SC, winter in FL Posts: 19	Iconcur with whiskey. Ruger GP 100 ,4in

January 9, 2002, 03:44 PM	#14
whiskey Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Location: Clarksville, TN Posts: 431	DOH, I admit I didn't read the last line about the female. But I would still recommend it. I am short with little hands, my wife is 5'2" with tiny ahands and likes the GP100 4", but if it is too big, then I recommend a.....GLOCK

January 9, 2002, 04:08 PM	#15
tonyz Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Location: Wa Posts: 922	I also agree with the Ruger GP-100 or the Security Six or any of the older Ruger DA/SA revolvers. Great guns. Built like tanks. Tonyz

January 9, 2002, 06:10 PM	#16
chaim Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,095	I think the grips may be almost as important as the gun. I had a used Taurus 82 in .38 with the old fashioned wood grips (the kind everyone sold as standard, well Taurus and S&W anyway, until those God forsaken rubber things became popular :barf: ). It is equivelent to a K-frame S&W so it isn't too big but is heavy enough that it is a pussycat with .38 target loads. Well a friend of the feminine variety tried to shoot it and the grips just weren't big enough. They kept her hand too far from the trigger so she had trouble with her very small hands (despite a revolver of probably perfect size). I really like the kind of grips found on the Ladysmith line of S&W revolvers (fill the hand, not too bulky, position your hand forward so those of us with shorter fingers can reach the trigger better). I know this doesn't quite fit your criteria but also check out the S&W 65LS. It has a 3"barrel but is as accurate as any 4" I've shot and a little more handy. It is heavy enough to easily handle any .38 round and is comfortable with .357s (not just to me but to all my friends who have tried it). Even though the sights aren't adjustable they are easy to use, see and, like I said about the barrel length, quite accurate. Also, as the Ladysmith model 65 it has great grips (designed for use with smaller hands) and a great looking finish (can't hurt with anyone, women or men). The 66 is almost the same gun with adjustable sights so I think it would be just as good (but you'd need to get the grips aftermarket if you were interested in them as there isn't a 66LS model). Both the 65 and 66 are available with 4" barrels though not as the Ladysmith model and I don't think it is necessary to go above 3" with these guns. If you don't want the 65LS but are interested in the grips both S&W and Taurus sell these or similar grips on their websites (unfortunately I think the Taurus grips may only be for small framed revolvers). Of course there are many similarly styled and sized grips sold by many aftermarket manufacturers as well. IF you want to see the gun or grips here is the pic: S&W 65LS with the grips I wrote about

January 9, 2002, 06:38 PM	#17
Salt Junior member Join Date: December 26, 2001 Posts: 673	I would recommend buying older S&W M10 (military & Police) .38 Special revolvers. Go with a 6" tapered barrel for the first gun, a 4" tapered barrel for the second gun. They are very accurrate with light recoil, simple operation (DA), and are inexpensive when bought used. The tapered barrels are light and make for good handling qualities, unlike those clunky bull barrels that they make standard today. Forget the magnums, too much blast for the newbies. You can shoot .38's in a .357 magnum, but you get too much bulk, too much weight and its not a magnum anymore is it? Thus I recommend a S&W M10 .38 special revolver.

January 10, 2002, 12:22 AM	#18
mikey357 Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2000 Location: Griffin, GA, USA Posts: 743	Okay, Tamara...what are the REST of the "Rules"??? We want to know!!!...at least, I do....mikey357

January 10, 2002, 12:29 AM	#19
Kermit Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2001 Location: California Posts: 3,020	S&W 686 or 586. Definite keeper When teaching someone to shoot, you have to have quality equipment.

January 10, 2002, 12:51 AM	#20
Salt Junior member Join Date: December 26, 2001 Posts: 673	The S&W Model 10 is a quality piece.

January 10, 2002, 05:35 AM	#21
notbubba Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2001 Location: Jackson Michigan Posts: 790	S&W 686 with a 4" barrel. A joy to shoot! or a Glock

January 10, 2002, 09:40 AM	#22
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Tamara I don't let large males shoot my light weight 29 with stompin loads lessen I know they can and won't drop it on the way to the aid station. Sam...bang is good, BANG is more gooder.

January 10, 2002, 10:28 AM	#23
Chad Young Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 1999 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 601	I like the model 10 very much, but some new shooters have struggled with the rear notch sight a bit when I have used one to teach new shooters. Something like a model 10 but with adjustable sights would be darn near perfect. Tamara - a bud of mine has a model 629 "Mountain Gun" with the 3" barrel. You would be amazed at how many small female types love shooting that thing! We load a 240gr JSP over 24.0gr of W296 and let 'em have at it. The noise and muzzle flash is quite startling. So far, none have shot all six rounds - I might have to marry the woman that could!

January 10, 2002, 11:08 AM	#24
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	Newbie gun: __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

January 10, 2002, 01:58 PM	#25
Chad Young Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 1999 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 601	What model is that? A 629?