October 28, 2006, 10:54 AM | #1 |
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Hi Power confusion
My local gun shop currently and has before gotten FN HP's NIB in 9mm and .40sw and sells them for 389$. I've double checked and they are not FM's but real FN's at least on the box and gun. So what gives, online Browning and FN's go for around 700$ how can they be so cheap? They are not FEG's either, they say FN on the frame. Did FN ever make an ecomony model or something? Thanks
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October 28, 2006, 11:18 AM | #2 |
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do they have "BROWNING" on the frame?
When Browning stopped importing hi-powers for a short period, they were still imported from FN but without the browning label. It's the browning label that makes the guns $600+. FN brownings without the browning label do run for less, or did. I'm recalling all of this from memory of previous topics. I may be wrong. research continues... |
October 28, 2006, 11:20 AM | #3 |
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Buy Three!!!
As you may know, the Hi Power is and always has been made by Fabrique National in Herstal, Belgium. Browning for many years was the sole US importer and marketer of FN produced firearms. Browning has never manufactured firearms, they only market them. So, in short, all Browning Hi Powers are FN's, but not all FN Hi Powers are Browning's. Although they are commonly referred to as a "Browning Hi Power" (even overseas) they are not stamped "Browning" except for those imported into the USA/Canada
Several years ago the parent company of Browning (FN) opened a US subsidiary (FNH USA) to market firearms to the law enforcement/military community (leaving Browning to focus on the sporting market). As part of that strategy they began importing Hi Powers with only the FN rollmark- no Browning rollmark. Apparantly they changed their mind because FNH USA is no longer going to import the Hi Power (Browning will continue). This led to FNH USA discounting the FN Hi Power and flooding the market with affordable Hi Powers. CDNN (a major distributor of overstock firearms) purchased several hundred and had been selling them in the $400-450 range for the last year or so. Most distributors have sold out of the 9mm and only have the .40cal. I bought the matte finish 9mm SFS version for $400 NIB at a gunshow in Dallas last spring. I liked it so much I bought another two weeks later. I'm still looking for the polished blue 9mm version. Internet rumor is that FN is either dropping or dumping the Hi Power. I seriously doubt that. Marketing types pull this stuff all the time. Remember New Coke? If I had the $$$ I would buy all I could find for $400. |
October 28, 2006, 12:16 PM | #4 | |
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October 28, 2006, 04:08 PM | #5 |
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CDNN has FN HP's (only in 40S&W) in their latest catalog for $399 ... I'm pretty sure that they give FFL's a discount, so I think that is likely where these came from. They are likely to be the real deal and will certainly satisfy the need for a GP35 that any rational person would have if they weren't already an owner
$400 is a GREAT deal but not too good to be true. Now ... if they were NIB for $300 or less these days, then I think that I would start to get suspicious and probably demand to know from where they originated. Saands |
October 31, 2006, 11:34 AM | #6 |
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For what it's worth, one of the Indianapolis gun shops had two new Hi-Powers on display with one priced around $400 and the other at around $675. I asked what the difference was and the owner said the first one was an "SFS" and the second one was an "S". Unfortunately I didn't ask what the functional difference was between the two. I was more interested in the gun I was actually purchasing and I'm used to different model guns within the same line having different prices.
Also, as part of this "Hi-Power History Lesson," John Moses Browning (JMB) was an employee of Fabrique National (FN) when he designed the Hi-Power. In fact JMB dropped dead in his office at FN. In his honor FN named the gun after him, the (John Moses) Browning Hi-Power. Also supposedly in his honor, but as more of a marketing device since JMB's name was becoming recognized, FN also created a Browning division to market guns largely in the US. Browning was never a separate company from FN nor did it exist during JMB's lifetime. So all of the FN produced Hi-Powers are properly called Browning Hi-Powers no matter how they are marked (as could accurate copies of the design if FN didn't hold trade-rights to the name.) As far as the marking on the guns go, FN has been pretty sporadic in recent years. Proving that the Browning name still sells, the most desireable guns (at least in the US) are the guns marked "Browning", second are the guns marked "Fabrique National" in large letters, and finally are the guns without a large rollmark on the slide simply marked "FN" as the manufacturer. However even though the markings have some effect on the value of used guns as collectables don't expect any real difference in the price of a new gun. FN is about as sporadic in marketing the guns as they are in marking them. They've gone in and out of production several times in recent years. It seems like when Hi-Powers go out of production long enough for demand to grow high that FN does another production run. After that batch begins to sell out FN takes them out of production again. Anyway, that last part is just my opinion. Tom
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October 31, 2006, 01:45 PM | #7 |
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John Browning was not an employee of FN. He was associated with FN, as they produced his designs, and was paid for them.
FN had no relation to Browning Arms. John Browning owned Browning Arms long before his association with FN, Remington, or Colt. Browning had FN make the Browning guns under contract. The FN version of the high was known as the GP 35. It was not marked as a "Browning", though it may have had "Browning's patent" markings. The Browning HP was made by FN and marketed in the US by Browning Arms of Morgan, Utah. Bill |
November 1, 2006, 04:20 PM | #8 | |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Browning
Quote:
JMB died in his son Val's office at FN in Liege while working on the Hi-Power. FN named the gun the GP35 but it became better known as the Browning Hi-Power. My point in my previous message being that it was named after the man, not the company. The "Hi-Power" name apparently came from the GP being called the Grande Puissance (High Power) in France. FN's GP35 is the original version of the Hi-Power and they've certainly sold plenty marked as "Browning." The final design was completed by Dieudonne Saive, for FN, nine years after JMB died. JMB owned John Browning Guns. John Browning guns sold primarily gun designs, not so much guns. Interestingly, Winchester bought many of Browning's designs for no purpose other than to keep other companies from aquiring them. Winchester only actually produced around 25% of the Browning designs it owned. Browning Arms was formed in 1927, the year after his death. In 1935, Val left Belgium and returned to Utah (the Brownings were Mormons) to become president of Browning Arms. Sorry for any mis-information I provided earlier! Tom
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Well, sometimes we’d travel right down the green river To the abandoned old prison down by Adrie hill. Where the air smelled like snakes and we’d shoot with our pistols But empty pop bottles was all we would kill. -John Prine, Paradise |
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November 1, 2006, 04:37 PM | #9 | |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Hi-Power
A little information on the models I ran across while looking at JMB information. The "still manufactured" may be a little out of date...at least for today. I've edited out some information so you might want to look at the link for the full story. I wonder if the Hi-Power Standard is the "S" model? Quote:
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Well, sometimes we’d travel right down the green river To the abandoned old prison down by Adrie hill. Where the air smelled like snakes and we’d shoot with our pistols But empty pop bottles was all we would kill. -John Prine, Paradise |
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