New guy looking for advice

nobody_special · November 20, 2006, 03:47 PM

I live in a small town with a high crime rate, and I'm looking to pick up something for defense. I'm new to firearms, aside from a session shooting a .22 with my dad, long ago. I will be getting instruction along with a weapon, and a case of ammo for lots of practice.

After some research, I've settled on a DA/SA semi-auto in a 5" barrel, though I'm still trying to work out which specific model to get. I'm mostly looking at Taurus's 24/7 Pro. I'm considering 9mm or .40 S&W, and I was leaning toward the .40 S&W... until I went to the range yesterday.

At the range I ran 10 rounds through each of a .40 Glock 22 and a 9mm H&K. I was nervous and jumpy while shooting, but I did okay with the 9mm, probably around a 4-5" median group at 7 yards. The Glock 22 was a different story. The muzzle flip was bad, it felt like the pistol was going to jump out of my hands every time I fired it. I missed the paper entirely a couple times, and the rest of the holes were scattered over the bottom half of the target. However, I wasn't shooting +P rounds in the 9mm.

I know the design of the handgun can influence recoil and muzzle flip. Do Glock 22s have excessive recoil/muzzle flip compared to other .40's, especially the Taurus 24/7? Is the .40S&W recoil something I would learn to handle with practice? I don't have strong arms. I'm a scientist and I sit in front of a computer all day...

The problem I had with the Glock 22 was that the gun jumped UP, so much that the side of my trigger finger was hit by the trigger guard and it was a struggle to hang on to the thing. If it had pushed back more and up less, it wouldn't have been a problem. I've seen forum posts elsewhere which said the Glock 22 has a lot of muzzle flip, and other posts which say the Taurus 24/7 .40 is not bad. Unfortunately, the firing range didn't have Taurus models and it was expensive enough that I can't afford to try shooting a wider variety of handguns.

I'm open to considering other models as well; the H&K was very nice, though I didn't like the magazine release. I definitely want a manual safety, so Glock and Springfields are out. I prefer DA/SA also. The one thing I dislike about the Taurus 24/7s is the lack of a decocker; their 24/7 OSS model fixes this, but it's not available and I've had conflicting information as to whether or not it will be available to civilians. With no decocker, I assume you must remove the magazine, eject the cartridge from the chamber, and dry-fire it to get it into a de-cocked state without firing?

Advice would be greatly appreciated... thanks.

- Dave

(P.S. I posted this to another forum also, as I'm trying to cast a wide net in order to get as much input as possible. Hope that doesn't offend anyone, and I apologize if so.)

Trapper L · November 20, 2006, 04:37 PM

Two schools of thought here: the 40 has more power than a 9 mm but usually a 9mm has more ammo in the clip. If you aren't comfy shooting the 40, buy a 9mm. I would suggest shooting a CZ or a CZ clone like the Baby Eagle or Witness before buying anything. My opinion, they are best deal for the money. I have two Baby Eagles and several Witness's and all are decent shooters and feel good in the hand. The 40 in my Baby Eagle doesn't have much more felt recoil than the 9mm but that also is governed by the ammo that you are shooting- the heavier the bullet, the more the recoil. I think you need to keep looking before buying and be totally comfortable with your pistol.

Prophet · November 20, 2006, 04:45 PM

I thought it was just me I'm always jumpy when shooting i guess its the addreniline (SPELLING) even on .22's.

kenneth owens · November 20, 2006, 04:58 PM

if the pistol is for self defense by all means take a course or two,now back to the pistol sure they are going to buck in your hand a little if most of your shooting is done with a 22. hmmm,9mm or 40 honestly I would more than likley go for the 9mm try shooting a lot more than just afew more rounds than 10 that way you can have time to get used to muzzle flip and to learn to control the pistol, as far as brand
try the glock again ruger,sig, are great pistols good luck be safe

Ichiro · November 20, 2006, 05:33 PM

I would go with 9mm, and in a smaller gun than a 5". For DA/SA, I would go with a Sig 226 or CZ P-01.

shield20 · November 20, 2006, 05:41 PM

Agree with Ichiro - any gun with a 5" barrel will be huge. Unless it is a duty gun, you might be better off with a mid-size or "compact". HKs are indeed very nice - their P2000 .40 is a great shooter - the version with a DA 1st pull and decocker mounted near the hammer seems like it could be just right (LEM has no safety). In 9mm it will shoot even nicer. SIG is another good brand, as are Beretta Cougars (made by Stoeger now and a great bargain).

mbf5482 · November 20, 2006, 05:43 PM

You might also want to look at the Walther P99 in 9mm. The was my first and I love it.

hpg · November 20, 2006, 06:26 PM

unless you are going to spend more range time with the 40 S&W to master the recoil, I'd get the 9mm for now...........you can always go 40 later. You need to be comfprtable with what you shoot. Also you must be able to hit the target........very important. hpg

nobody_special · November 20, 2006, 06:33 PM

The CZ is worth a look. I'd get an H&K if it weren't so expensive (my budget is about $400-500, not including ammunition).

Like Glocks and Springfield XDs, the Walther P99 and Sig 226 don't have safety switches.

I've seen discussions of Glock's "safe action," and how the real safety is between the ears of the handler, keeping the finger off the trigger etc... I don't buy it. EVERYONE makes mistakes sometimes, no matter how careful or well-trained. I've read 4 separate stories about police officers (one was a firearms instructor!) being injured by accidentally discharging their Glocks while holstering or drawing the weapon, plus an incident where two police officers were chasing a car thief. In that case, they jumped a fence and one officer fell; his gun went off because a stick or branch hit the trigger. The other officer thought the guy they were chasing had shot his partner, so he shot and killed the suspect.

Consider the 4 safety rules. There's some redundancy in them. If you forget and put your finger on the trigger, and accidentally discharge a weapon as a result, nobody should be hurt if you were following rule #2 (keep it pointed in a safe direction). Redundancy in safety is good because people make mistakes. I will be getting instruction and I plan to practice regularly so I will be comfortable with the firearm. I'm very careful and I know the safety rules, but I would never feel comfortable with only the trigger safety.

I know there are a lot of Glock fans out there, and that's fine. I don't want to start an argument or flame war. This is just my opinion. You carry what you like, but I want a thumb safety. I will not consider any firearm that doesn't have one.

I'm surprised that people are recommending something smaller than a 5"; I'm not going to be carrying concealed... wouldn't the more accurate 5" be desirable for home defense?

Mark54g · November 20, 2006, 09:32 PM

A safety is something you have to train for. Many guns do NOT have safeties. Double action guns usually have sufficient trigger pull on the first shot to prevent an accidental discharge. Negligent discharges are another story.

Many quality weapons don't have safeties. CZs don't have them on many models. My 75B can only activate the safety when the weapon is cocked and in single action mode.

Most Sigs do not have safeties, but rather decockers. You would be limiting yourself to a much lower quantity of weapons

MetalMan · November 20, 2006, 10:00 PM

This is an excellent line of pistols from Taurus.I carry a PT 145 Pro and love it.They do have a manual safety as well as being DAO. My .45 carries 10+1 and is very accurate for this size.I feel confident in the safe carry of this pistol too....very important since statistically it will spend it's life holstered.I think it is made in .380,9mm,40,45, blued,SS.So you have a choice.
Good luck and train well.
http://www.taurus.com

MetalMan · November 20, 2006, 10:03 PM

try http://www.taurususa.com

buckster · November 20, 2006, 10:18 PM

The CZ 75 B in 9 mm or the Springfield Champ in 45. Both are great guns. Go to a range and rent some to get the feel of them and then decide. I took my champ out today and got 4" groups at 25 ft. the CZ is a tight shooter and the 9 mm is cheaper.

FirstFreedom · November 20, 2006, 10:50 PM

Is a 4.7" bbl close enough to 5" for you? If so, get a CZ 75 or CZ 85 - they are great, accurate pistols. On a budget, the CZ clone of the EAA Witness pistols are generally good too.

dgnizer · November 20, 2006, 11:00 PM

I have an XD40 "5 and XD40 "3. IMHO the recoil is something you have to use to. After firing the .40 for a while when I switch to the 9mm it feels like I'm shooting a bb gun I found the longer the barrel the less recoil since its the slide absorb more recoil. Just my .02 cents. I hope this helps.

nobody_special · November 20, 2006, 11:04 PM

Thanks for all the responses... I really appreciate it.

RE avoiding weapons with no thumb safety:

Quote:

You would be limiting yourself to a much lower quantity of weapons

So be it. I'd rather not have any firearm at all, than have one which feels unsafe to me.

MetalMan, thanks. I've been looking at the Taurus web site. I like their features. In fact, the 24/7 Pro OSS is exactly what I'm looking for... if only it were available.

lempka · November 20, 2006, 11:19 PM

I have a Taurus 24/7 in the .40 and like the gun but it does have a little kick to it. I recently picked up a FNP-40 and love this gun. Has everything that your looking for. DA/SA with traditional hammer, decocker, three 14 round mags. SS or blued very nice gun. I have praised this gun on this site more than once. Kicks less than any of my three 40's. Back on target easily, and this is why FNP is now my favorite. They also make a 9mm that holds 17 in mags. Also .40's and 9mm available with manual safety instead of decocker. Got mine for $400.00.
Browning version of this gun (I think) the decocker also is a manual safety.

Check them out.

http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/hg_fnp_series.htm

Mark54g · November 21, 2006, 12:55 AM

It is your choice. I would hope you train well, then. To put a slightly different spin on an old saying:

The loudest sound you will ever hear is silence when you expected a BANG!

The second loudest is a BANG! when you expected click

MPanova · November 21, 2006, 02:13 AM

The Taurus Mil Pro and 24/7 are both great choices. I carry one or the other in a .45 on a daily basis. Also check out the Ruger P89 and P95

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firear...ading&famlst=3

MPanova · November 21, 2006, 02:25 AM

One more thing. The Taurus 24/7 Pro also comes in a long slide version (FIVE-INCH BARREL) with out being the tactical. I found one for sale here,

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976776848.htm

You might be able to find one from a local dealer.

King_chin0 · November 21, 2006, 04:04 AM

Quote:

I live in a small town with a high crime rate, and I'm looking to pick up something for defense. I'm new to firearms, aside from a session shooting a .22 with my dad, long ago. I will be getting instruction along with a weapon, and a case of ammo for lots of practice.

I say a good defense firearm for home would always be a shotgun, I love my Mossberg 500, never failed me. As fas as a CCW, I would exactly suggest a 5 inch barrel for conceal purpose, although that is what I carry. Many has told you about revolvers, which actually has a way harder recoil then a semi in the same caliber.

Quote:

After some research, I've settled on a DA/SA semi-auto in a 5" barrel, though I'm still trying to work out which specific model to get. I'm mostly looking at Taurus's 24/7 Pro. I'm considering 9mm or .40 S&W, and I was leaning toward the .40 S&W... until I went to the range yesterday.

At the range I ran 10 rounds through each of a .40 Glock 22 and a 9mm H&K. I was nervous and jumpy while shooting, but I did okay with the 9mm, probably around a 4-5" median group at 7 yards. The Glock 22 was a different story. The muzzle flip was bad, it felt like the pistol was going to jump out of my hands every time I fired it. I missed the paper entirely a couple times, and the rest of the holes were scattered over the bottom half of the target. However, I wasn't shooting +P rounds in the 9mm.

I think you should take a shooting class, because if you were holding the hungun correctly, it shouldn't even jump out of your hand. I suggest you take an intro to shooting/gun class, then take a defensive shooting course if you can. For a beginner, not hitting the target or where you wanna hit is very common, so don't feel like you are doing bad, practice makes perfect. It doesn't matter whether you are shooting +Ps or not, the recoil on the .40s&w is mild compare to the calibers some has mentioned above, such as the .45 Colt or the .454 Casaull. Are you a smaller frame guy? Because a 40s&w should not even be a problem for a guy to handle, please do not take any offense , I'm just trying to help you out as much as possible.

Quote:

I know the design of the handgun can influence recoil and muzzle flip. Do Glock 22s have excessive recoil/muzzle flip compared to other .40's, especially the Taurus 24/7? Is the .40S&W recoil something I would learn to handle with practice? I don't have strong arms. I'm a scientist and I sit in front of a computer all day...

Yes, design of the gun and parts of the gun has much to do with recoil. Glocks for example. The polymer frame actually absorbs recoil, so the recoil of a glock should be much more managable.

Quote:

The problem I had with the Glock 22 was that the gun jumped UP, so much that the side of my trigger finger was hit by the trigger guard and it was a struggle to hang on to the thing. If it had pushed back more and up less, it wouldn't have been a problem. I've seen forum posts elsewhere which said the Glock 22 has a lot of muzzle flip, and other posts which say the Taurus 24/7 .40 is not bad. Unfortunately, the firing range didn't have Taurus models and it was expensive enough that I can't afford to try shooting a wider variety of handguns.

I think the above should be enough to answer this one for ya haha.

Quote:

I'm open to considering other models as well; the H&K was very nice, though I didn't like the magazine release. I definitely want a manual safety, so Glock and Springfields are out. I prefer DA/SA also. The one thing I dislike about the Taurus 24/7s is the lack of a decocker; their 24/7 OSS model fixes this, but it's not available and I've had conflicting information as to whether or not it will be available to civilians. With no decocker, I assume you must remove the magazine, eject the cartridge from the chamber, and dry-fire it to get it into a de-cocked state without firing?

Advice would be greatly appreciated... thanks.

- Dave

(P.S. I posted this to another forum also, as I'm trying to cast a wide net in order to get as much input as possible. Hope that doesn't offend anyone, and I apologize if so.)

Actually Springfield is not out of the question, because the XD has a manual safety, and it has many models of different guns, look into it. As far as decock and manual safety, Sig Sauer makes great fire arms, maybe you should look at a P229 or P226 in 9mm. I think you will do good in a 9mm. As for the H&K USP9, that is a great gun as well. For the fact that you are no gun freak like us, haha, Glock might not be a first choice for you, and I wouldn't even recommend it. As for a decock, either you have to have a hammer for a manual decock, or a decock switch. Guns without hammers or a decock switch has to be decock the way you have just mentioned. You might also considering a gun with a loaded chamber indicator. Rugers are great, check out the P95. It has a loaded chamber indicator, decock and safety.
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firear...13014&return=Y
this model of the P95 should be the decock plus maual safety. It has a very reasonable price and Rugers are great pistols. Not to mention it has a 15+1 capacity, way better then a 6shot revolver.

Sigs are just great, one of the best out there right now, it has a decock, but no manual safety. I had one, and it is great. It decocks, and it has I think three or four internal safteies
http://www.sigarms.com/Products/Show...7&productid=61
this is a p226 model, which comes in 9mm 40s&w and .357sig, which can be converted to each caliber with the same frame. Just go to the link and read up. I also want to recommend the .357sig, the recoil is muich like the 9mm, but has more power, velocity, and penetration power.

GOOD LUCK FINDING YOUR PROTECTOR.

Hope I have been helpful

nobody_special · November 21, 2006, 04:04 AM

Thanks MPanova! And yeah, I've been looking at the Rugers too, and I'm also looking up the FNP that lempka suggested.

Can someone comment on the 4" vs. 5" barrel? I thought that 5" would be preferred for defense because of the longer sighting distance. Plus, the longer/heavier front end should help control recoil. But shield20 and Ichiro recommended something smaller, with little explanation other than a 5" barrel being "huge." Am I missing something?

nobody_special · November 21, 2006, 04:35 AM

King_chin0, thanks for that!

I'm not a small-framed guy, I'm a 5'11", about 200 lbs but I don't have much upper-body strength. I'm sure I wasn't holding the G22 tightly enough, but I think my grip was more or less correct. I do admit to being more than a little startled (note how I don't want to admit the truth... "frightened" would be a more accurate word here) when firing it.

I'm not looking for CCW, just home defense. In town, I spend my time either at home or on a college campus where firearms are prohibited, so CCW isn't worth the effort. Open carry is legal here, and I may do that when I'm out in the boonies - which is only about a 5 minute drive in any direction, after all.

The Springfield XD has a grip safety, but this is from their manual: "You will notice that the XD Pistol has no external manual safety system that can be placed on or off." A grip safety is certainly better than none, but I still want a manual safety switch.

As for the Taurus vs. Glock recoil in .40, I was sorta hoping that someone with direct experience with both models would chime in with a comparison. The comments I've seen elsewhere on this subject were not direct comparisons.

I'm looking at the Ruger. The SIG looks very nice, but unfortunately it's not in the budget. Neither is the H&K.

Thanks again...

King_chin0 · November 21, 2006, 04:55 AM

Sorry for the misinfo buddy, yea the XD doesn't have a manual safety, I think those beers are catching up, haha. Yes, upper body strength is required, but not too much. The Ruger might be the way to go, because my best friend/range buddy has one, and it is great. It has decock, and manual, but not loaded chamber indicator, because his was a P94. I have shot both the Taurus and the Glock, and I personally prefer the Glock, for the feel of the gun. It was both a 9mm, so both doesn't feel like much in my hands, since my regular range gun is a .45acp.

Again, sorry for the misinfo, I suck at this gun thing

pappy49 · November 21, 2006, 06:39 AM

You've answered your own question. You're uncomfortable with the 40cal.
Gt the 9mm, and take a safety course, and practice as much as possible.
Get the 40 later
As for a 5" barrel, if it's for concealed carry, that's too large. Sig, HK, Glock,
Taurus, any are great. The Kahr in 9mm is also fine.

November 20, 2006, 03:47 PM	#1
nobody_special Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: Southwest US Posts: 277	New guy looking for advice I live in a small town with a high crime rate, and I'm looking to pick up something for defense. I'm new to firearms, aside from a session shooting a .22 with my dad, long ago. I will be getting instruction along with a weapon, and a case of ammo for lots of practice. After some research, I've settled on a DA/SA semi-auto in a 5" barrel, though I'm still trying to work out which specific model to get. I'm mostly looking at Taurus's 24/7 Pro. I'm considering 9mm or .40 S&W, and I was leaning toward the .40 S&W... until I went to the range yesterday. At the range I ran 10 rounds through each of a .40 Glock 22 and a 9mm H&K. I was nervous and jumpy while shooting, but I did okay with the 9mm, probably around a 4-5" median group at 7 yards. The Glock 22 was a different story. The muzzle flip was bad, it felt like the pistol was going to jump out of my hands every time I fired it. I missed the paper entirely a couple times, and the rest of the holes were scattered over the bottom half of the target. However, I wasn't shooting +P rounds in the 9mm. I know the design of the handgun can influence recoil and muzzle flip. Do Glock 22s have excessive recoil/muzzle flip compared to other .40's, especially the Taurus 24/7? Is the .40S&W recoil something I would learn to handle with practice? I don't have strong arms. I'm a scientist and I sit in front of a computer all day... The problem I had with the Glock 22 was that the gun jumped UP, so much that the side of my trigger finger was hit by the trigger guard and it was a struggle to hang on to the thing. If it had pushed back more and up less, it wouldn't have been a problem. I've seen forum posts elsewhere which said the Glock 22 has a lot of muzzle flip, and other posts which say the Taurus 24/7 .40 is not bad. Unfortunately, the firing range didn't have Taurus models and it was expensive enough that I can't afford to try shooting a wider variety of handguns. I'm open to considering other models as well; the H&K was very nice, though I didn't like the magazine release. I definitely want a manual safety, so Glock and Springfields are out. I prefer DA/SA also. The one thing I dislike about the Taurus 24/7s is the lack of a decocker; their 24/7 OSS model fixes this, but it's not available and I've had conflicting information as to whether or not it will be available to civilians. With no decocker, I assume you must remove the magazine, eject the cartridge from the chamber, and dry-fire it to get it into a de-cocked state without firing? Advice would be greatly appreciated... thanks. - Dave (P.S. I posted this to another forum also, as I'm trying to cast a wide net in order to get as much input as possible. Hope that doesn't offend anyone, and I apologize if so.)

November 20, 2006, 04:58 PM	#4
kenneth owens Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2006 Posts: 355	self defense if the pistol is for self defense by all means take a course or two,now back to the pistol sure they are going to buck in your hand a little if most of your shooting is done with a 22. hmmm,9mm or 40 honestly I would more than likley go for the 9mm try shooting a lot more than just afew more rounds than 10 that way you can have time to get used to muzzle flip and to learn to control the pistol, as far as brand try the glock again ruger,sig, are great pistols good luck be safe

November 20, 2006, 06:26 PM	#8
hpg Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 2002 Location: in the Bluegrass State Posts: 1,610	unless you are going to spend more range time with the 40 S&W to master the recoil, I'd get the 9mm for now...........you can always go 40 later. You need to be comfprtable with what you shoot. Also you must be able to hit the target........very important. hpg __________________ NRA member Semper Paratus

November 20, 2006, 09:32 PM	#10
Mark54g Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 1,265	A safety is something you have to train for. Many guns do NOT have safeties. Double action guns usually have sufficient trigger pull on the first shot to prevent an accidental discharge. Negligent discharges are another story. Many quality weapons don't have safeties. CZs don't have them on many models. My 75B can only activate the safety when the weapon is cocked and in single action mode. Most Sigs do not have safeties, but rather decockers. You would be limiting yourself to a much lower quantity of weapons __________________ CZ 75B Stainless Beretta PX4 F Series 9mm & U22 Neos 6" black S&W Shield 9mm

November 20, 2006, 10:00 PM	#11
MetalMan Member Join Date: October 4, 2006 Location: Greenville,SC Posts: 23	Take a look at Taurus PT Pro This is an excellent line of pistols from Taurus.I carry a PT 145 Pro and love it.They do have a manual safety as well as being DAO. My .45 carries 10+1 and is very accurate for this size.I feel confident in the safe carry of this pistol too....very important since statistically it will spend it's life holstered.I think it is made in .380,9mm,40,45, blued,SS.So you have a choice. Good luck and train well. http://www.taurus.com

November 20, 2006, 04:37 PM	#2
Trapper L Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 804	Two schools of thought here: the 40 has more power than a 9 mm but usually a 9mm has more ammo in the clip. If you aren't comfy shooting the 40, buy a 9mm. I would suggest shooting a CZ or a CZ clone like the Baby Eagle or Witness before buying anything. My opinion, they are best deal for the money. I have two Baby Eagles and several Witness's and all are decent shooters and feel good in the hand. The 40 in my Baby Eagle doesn't have much more felt recoil than the 9mm but that also is governed by the ammo that you are shooting- the heavier the bullet, the more the recoil. I think you need to keep looking before buying and be totally comfortable with your pistol.

November 20, 2006, 04:45 PM	#3
Prophet Junior member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: Great State of TEXAS Posts: 244	I thought it was just me I'm always jumpy when shooting i guess its the addreniline (SPELLING) even on .22's.

November 20, 2006, 05:33 PM	#5
Ichiro Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 888	I would go with 9mm, and in a smaller gun than a 5". For DA/SA, I would go with a Sig 226 or CZ P-01.

November 20, 2006, 05:41 PM	#6
shield20 Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2005 Location: Hudson Valley, New York Posts: 1,371	Agree with Ichiro - any gun with a 5" barrel will be huge. Unless it is a duty gun, you might be better off with a mid-size or "compact". HKs are indeed very nice - their P2000 .40 is a great shooter - the version with a DA 1st pull and decocker mounted near the hammer seems like it could be just right (LEM has no safety). In 9mm it will shoot even nicer. SIG is another good brand, as are Beretta Cougars (made by Stoeger now and a great bargain).

November 20, 2006, 05:43 PM	#7
mbf5482 Member Join Date: April 28, 2006 Posts: 54	You might also want to look at the Walther P99 in 9mm. The was my first and I love it.

November 20, 2006, 06:33 PM	#9
nobody_special Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: Southwest US Posts: 277	The CZ is worth a look. I'd get an H&K if it weren't so expensive (my budget is about $400-500, not including ammunition). Like Glocks and Springfield XDs, the Walther P99 and Sig 226 don't have safety switches. I've seen discussions of Glock's "safe action," and how the real safety is between the ears of the handler, keeping the finger off the trigger etc... I don't buy it. EVERYONE makes mistakes sometimes, no matter how careful or well-trained. I've read 4 separate stories about police officers (one was a firearms instructor!) being injured by accidentally discharging their Glocks while holstering or drawing the weapon, plus an incident where two police officers were chasing a car thief. In that case, they jumped a fence and one officer fell; his gun went off because a stick or branch hit the trigger. The other officer thought the guy they were chasing had shot his partner, so he shot and killed the suspect. Consider the 4 safety rules. There's some redundancy in them. If you forget and put your finger on the trigger, and accidentally discharge a weapon as a result, nobody should be hurt if you were following rule #2 (keep it pointed in a safe direction). Redundancy in safety is good because people make mistakes. I will be getting instruction and I plan to practice regularly so I will be comfortable with the firearm. I'm very careful and I know the safety rules, but I would never feel comfortable with only the trigger safety. I know there are a lot of Glock fans out there, and that's fine. I don't want to start an argument or flame war. This is just my opinion. You carry what you like, but I want a thumb safety. I will not consider any firearm that doesn't have one. I'm surprised that people are recommending something smaller than a 5"; I'm not going to be carrying concealed... wouldn't the more accurate 5" be desirable for home defense?

November 20, 2006, 10:03 PM	#12
MetalMan Member Join Date: October 4, 2006 Location: Greenville,SC Posts: 23	bad link sorry try http://www.taurususa.com

November 20, 2006, 10:18 PM	#13
buckster Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2006 Posts: 674	Try this The CZ 75 B in 9 mm or the Springfield Champ in 45. Both are great guns. Go to a range and rent some to get the feel of them and then decide. I took my champ out today and got 4" groups at 25 ft. the CZ is a tight shooter and the 9 mm is cheaper.

November 20, 2006, 10:50 PM	#14
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	Is a 4.7" bbl close enough to 5" for you? If so, get a CZ 75 or CZ 85 - they are great, accurate pistols. On a budget, the CZ clone of the EAA Witness pistols are generally good too.

November 20, 2006, 11:00 PM	#15
dgnizer Member Join Date: October 21, 2006 Posts: 41	I have an XD40 "5 and XD40 "3. IMHO the recoil is something you have to use to. After firing the .40 for a while when I switch to the 9mm it feels like I'm shooting a bb gun I found the longer the barrel the less recoil since its the slide absorb more recoil. Just my .02 cents. I hope this helps. __________________ XD 40 Tactical, XD40 Sub, and mod Rem 870

November 20, 2006, 11:19 PM	#17
lempka Member Join Date: September 1, 2006 Posts: 51	Fnp I have a Taurus 24/7 in the .40 and like the gun but it does have a little kick to it. I recently picked up a FNP-40 and love this gun. Has everything that your looking for. DA/SA with traditional hammer, decocker, three 14 round mags. SS or blued very nice gun. I have praised this gun on this site more than once. Kicks less than any of my three 40's. Back on target easily, and this is why FNP is now my favorite. They also make a 9mm that holds 17 in mags. Also .40's and 9mm available with manual safety instead of decocker. Got mine for $400.00. Browning version of this gun (I think) the decocker also is a manual safety. Check them out. http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/hg_fnp_series.htm

November 21, 2006, 12:55 AM	#18
Mark54g Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 1,265	It is your choice. I would hope you train well, then. To put a slightly different spin on an old saying: The loudest sound you will ever hear is silence when you expected a BANG! The second loudest is a BANG! when you expected click __________________ CZ 75B Stainless Beretta PX4 F Series 9mm & U22 Neos 6" black S&W Shield 9mm

November 21, 2006, 02:13 AM	#19
MPanova Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2006 Location: Houston TX Posts: 681	The Taurus Mil Pro and 24/7 are both great choices. I carry one or the other in a .45 on a daily basis. Also check out the Ruger P89 and P95 http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firear...ading&famlst=3 __________________ .45 CALIBER FANATIC!!! "WALK SOFTLY AND CARRY A BIG GUN!"

November 21, 2006, 02:25 AM	#20
MPanova Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2006 Location: Houston TX Posts: 681	One more thing. The Taurus 24/7 Pro also comes in a long slide version (FIVE-INCH BARREL) with out being the tactical. I found one for sale here, http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976776848.htm You might be able to find one from a local dealer. __________________ .45 CALIBER FANATIC!!! "WALK SOFTLY AND CARRY A BIG GUN!"

November 21, 2006, 04:04 AM	#22
nobody_special Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: Southwest US Posts: 277	Thanks MPanova! And yeah, I've been looking at the Rugers too, and I'm also looking up the FNP that lempka suggested. Can someone comment on the 4" vs. 5" barrel? I thought that 5" would be preferred for defense because of the longer sighting distance. Plus, the longer/heavier front end should help control recoil. But shield20 and Ichiro recommended something smaller, with little explanation other than a 5" barrel being "huge." Am I missing something?

November 21, 2006, 04:35 AM	#23
nobody_special Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: Southwest US Posts: 277	King_chin0, thanks for that! I'm not a small-framed guy, I'm a 5'11", about 200 lbs but I don't have much upper-body strength. I'm sure I wasn't holding the G22 tightly enough, but I think my grip was more or less correct. I do admit to being more than a little startled (note how I don't want to admit the truth... "frightened" would be a more accurate word here) when firing it. I'm not looking for CCW, just home defense. In town, I spend my time either at home or on a college campus where firearms are prohibited, so CCW isn't worth the effort. Open carry is legal here, and I may do that when I'm out in the boonies - which is only about a 5 minute drive in any direction, after all. The Springfield XD has a grip safety, but this is from their manual: "You will notice that the XD Pistol has no external manual safety system that can be placed on or off." A grip safety is certainly better than none, but I still want a manual safety switch. As for the Taurus vs. Glock recoil in .40, I was sorta hoping that someone with direct experience with both models would chime in with a comparison. The comments I've seen elsewhere on this subject were not direct comparisons. I'm looking at the Ruger. The SIG looks very nice, but unfortunately it's not in the budget. Neither is the H&K. Thanks again...

November 21, 2006, 04:55 AM	#24
King_chin0 Junior member Join Date: May 2, 2006 Location: Kansas City Posts: 303	Sorry for the misinfo buddy, yea the XD doesn't have a manual safety, I think those beers are catching up, haha. Yes, upper body strength is required, but not too much. The Ruger might be the way to go, because my best friend/range buddy has one, and it is great. It has decock, and manual, but not loaded chamber indicator, because his was a P94. I have shot both the Taurus and the Glock, and I personally prefer the Glock, for the feel of the gun. It was both a 9mm, so both doesn't feel like much in my hands, since my regular range gun is a .45acp. Again, sorry for the misinfo, I suck at this gun thing

November 21, 2006, 06:39 AM	#25
pappy49 Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2006 Posts: 3	You've answered your own question. You're uncomfortable with the 40cal. Gt the 9mm, and take a safety course, and practice as much as possible. Get the 40 later As for a 5" barrel, if it's for concealed carry, that's too large. Sig, HK, Glock, Taurus, any are great. The Kahr in 9mm is also fine.