38 short

wellsdl · September 14, 2008, 06:27 PM

A friend recently inherited a Smith & Wesson 38 special and a box of 38 short ammunition. He wants to make sure it's safe to fire before he usesthe ammunition. Any information would be helpful.

Superhouse 15 · September 14, 2008, 07:20 PM

Double check the ammo. .38 Short is an older style heel based bullet different than the .38 Special. The gun will probably say ".38 S&W Special" on it. Don't risk the gun, .38 Special is cheap and available almost anywhere. Get a new box preferably at a real gunshop where you can get a gunsmith to look at it, or at least someone knowlegeable enough to verify you have the correct ammo, advise you if +P is safe, etc. Can't quite get that at the Wal Mart.

zippy13 · September 14, 2008, 11:59 PM

These old 38 cartridge designations can be confusing.

38 Short typically refers to the 38 Short Colt (38 SC).
The old 38 Smith & Wesson (not 38 S&W Spcl) is slightly longer (case and overall) than the 38 Short.
Next in length is the .38 Long Colt (38 LC)
And, finally the 38 Smith & Wesson Special (38 S&W SPCL) is the longest, but shorter than the .357 Magnum.

Over time the longer and more powerful 38 S&W Special has taken over the market and become known simply as the 38 Special. My S&W Mod 10-8 is marked on the barrel "38 S&W SPECIAL CTG." Other brands of revolvers may omit the S&W reference on their .38 Specials.
Shooting 38 Shorts in a 38 Special is okay (I'd save them) as they are dimensionally equal except in length, and the SC is loaded to a lower pressure. However, as with all old ammo be alert to the possibility of a squib. Also, the Shorts may leave some lead in your cylinder. Is it worth the bother?

DO NOT attempt to shoot 38 Specials in a 38 Short gun, a gun marked 38 S&W (without the Special append), nor a 38 Long Colt gun.

**Mike Irwin** · September 15, 2008, 12:03 AM

.38 "Short" is a general term for .38 Short Colt. It's a very old round, and as Superhouse says, was originally loaded with a heeled bullet of about .375 caliber. You can tell these rounds because the bullet is the same diameter as the outside of the case neck, making it look like a .22 Long Rifle.

However, in the late 1800s, the heeled bullet was replaced with a modern-style bullet of .357 caliber.

To make the new bullet work in old, larger bore guns, the bullets were dead soft and had a very large hollow in the base, giving the bullet a "skirt" that would expand to take the rifling on firing.

It's most likely that if these are .38 Shot Colt cartridges that they have the modern style bullet and will work in a revolver chambered for .38 Special.

It's also possible, though, that these are .38 S&W cartridges. If that's the case, they very likely won't even fit in the cylinder of your gun. The .38 S&W had a fatter case head and a slightly larger bullet.

woad_yurt · September 15, 2008, 04:48 AM

I did a little Googling and it seems that .38 short/long Colt have slightly larger case diameters & bullets than .38SPLs. Just by a couple of thousanths, but bigger nonetheless. They may fit; I don't know.

Are you referring to .38 S&W? Around me, folks call .38 S&W ".38 shorts." If so, it has a much larger case diameter than .38SPL and won't fit in the cylinder of a gun chambered for .38SPL.

Google "cartridge dimensions."

Note: .38SPL ammo is highly advised for use in a .38SPL gun. Why mess around with the wrong stuff?

carguychris · September 15, 2008, 09:04 AM

Quote:

I did a little Googling and it seems that .38 short/long Colt have slightly larger case diameters & bullets than .38SPLs.

This is not quite correct. The .38 Special is a lengthened .38 Long Colt, and guns chambered in .38Spl will chamber and fire .38LC cartridges without problems provided they don't have the older-style heeled bullets (re: Superhouse 15's post).

The .38LC was the U.S. military's standard handgun cartridge when S&W developed the .38 Military & Police in the last decade of the 19th century. S&W designed the .38Spl to address concerns about the .38LC's perceived lack of power, while still allowing .38LC cartridges to be fired in the new gun. It was an open secret that the Army brass was disappointed with the .38LC and wanted a replacement, and S&W was hoping that the .38Spl cartridge (and the .38 M&P to fire it) would be that replacement. The ability to use existing stockpiles of .38LC ammo for target practice was an obvious selling point.

zippy13 · September 15, 2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carguychris

It was an open secret that the Army brass was disappointed with the .38LC and wanted a replacement, and S&W was hoping that the .38Spl cartridge (and the .38 M&P to fire it) would be that replacement. The ability to use existing stockpiles of .38LC ammo for target practice was an obvious selling point.

Thanks, carguychris... it all makes perfect sense. This should have mentioned first. If you were wondering why so many different versions of 38's and changes within a specific round, don't look for a logical reason, just follow the money.

September 14, 2008, 06:27 PM	#1
wellsdl Junior Member Join Date: September 14, 2008 Posts: 1	38 short A friend recently inherited a Smith & Wesson 38 special and a box of 38 short ammunition. He wants to make sure it's safe to fire before he usesthe ammunition. Any information would be helpful.

September 14, 2008, 07:20 PM	#2
Superhouse 15 Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2007 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 844	.38 short? Double check the ammo. .38 Short is an older style heel based bullet different than the .38 Special. The gun will probably say ".38 S&W Special" on it. Don't risk the gun, .38 Special is cheap and available almost anywhere. Get a new box preferably at a real gunshop where you can get a gunsmith to look at it, or at least someone knowlegeable enough to verify you have the correct ammo, advise you if +P is safe, etc. Can't quite get that at the Wal Mart.

September 14, 2008, 11:59 PM	#3
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	These old 38 cartridge designations can be confusing. 38 Short typically refers to the 38 Short Colt (38 SC). The old 38 Smith & Wesson (not 38 S&W Spcl) is slightly longer (case and overall) than the 38 Short. Next in length is the .38 Long Colt (38 LC) And, finally the 38 Smith & Wesson Special (38 S&W SPCL) is the longest, but shorter than the .357 Magnum. Over time the longer and more powerful 38 S&W Special has taken over the market and become known simply as the 38 Special. My S&W Mod 10-8 is marked on the barrel "38 S&W SPECIAL CTG." Other brands of revolvers may omit the S&W reference on their .38 Specials. Shooting 38 Shorts in a 38 Special is okay (I'd save them) as they are dimensionally equal except in length, and the SC is loaded to a lower pressure. However, as with all old ammo be alert to the possibility of a squib. Also, the Shorts may leave some lead in your cylinder. Is it worth the bother? DO NOT attempt to shoot 38 Specials in a 38 Short gun, a gun marked 38 S&W (without the Special append), nor a 38 Long Colt gun.

September 15, 2008, 12:03 AM	#4
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	.38 "Short" is a general term for .38 Short Colt. It's a very old round, and as Superhouse says, was originally loaded with a heeled bullet of about .375 caliber. You can tell these rounds because the bullet is the same diameter as the outside of the case neck, making it look like a .22 Long Rifle. However, in the late 1800s, the heeled bullet was replaced with a modern-style bullet of .357 caliber. To make the new bullet work in old, larger bore guns, the bullets were dead soft and had a very large hollow in the base, giving the bullet a "skirt" that would expand to take the rifling on firing. It's most likely that if these are .38 Shot Colt cartridges that they have the modern style bullet and will work in a revolver chambered for .38 Special. It's also possible, though, that these are .38 S&W cartridges. If that's the case, they very likely won't even fit in the cylinder of your gun. The .38 S&W had a fatter case head and a slightly larger bullet. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 15, 2008, 04:48 AM	#5
woad_yurt Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2008 Posts: 1,206	I did a little Googling and it seems that .38 short/long Colt have slightly larger case diameters & bullets than .38SPLs. Just by a couple of thousanths, but bigger nonetheless. They may fit; I don't know. Are you referring to .38 S&W? Around me, folks call .38 S&W ".38 shorts." If so, it has a much larger case diameter than .38SPL and won't fit in the cylinder of a gun chambered for .38SPL. Google "cartridge dimensions." Note: .38SPL ammo is highly advised for use in a .38SPL gun. Why mess around with the wrong stuff? __________________ A Makarov? Simple, easy and works perfectly every time. ¡Vale!