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Old October 28, 2008, 08:23 AM   #1
oldbullseye
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Colt 38 Super-Early Models 1950's Vintage

I have a book that states 1) Super .38 Automatic Pistol pre-war, 2) Super .38 Automatic Pistol 2nd Model, 3) Super .38 Automatic Pistol 3rd Model, and 4) Super .38 Automatic Pistol 4th Model. It does not have any photo's, but goes on to state, the 2nd model may be differentiated by the heavier barrel and Rampant Colt on the right side. The 3rd Model has a FAT barrel with Rampant Colt on the left side. The 4th Model has a thin barrel and Rampant Colt on the left side.

My Question is: Where can I find out just what a "Heavier Barrel Is", and what at "Fat Barrel" is, and what a "Thin Barrel" is. Are there specific dimensions to go by, etc..............

Thanks,
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Old October 28, 2008, 12:51 PM   #2
RickB
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Yeah, I can see why you'd be confused. I am not going to be able to help with dimensions, but the names refer to the exterior appearance of the barrel. Some are essentially cylindrical for their entire length, and the diameter is much smaller than a standard .45 barrel. My Colt of 2004 manufacture is like this. Others had small-diameter tubes that flared near the muzzle, a la Series 70 .45s, and others still are standard .45 diameter (nominally .580") along their entire length. You might try coltautos.com for more specifics.
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Old October 28, 2008, 01:39 PM   #3
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I wouldn't waste my money on any of the Colts. Colt insisted on trying to headspace the .38 Super on the almost non-existent rim (semi-rim actually.) This was known to give poor accuracy as opposed to headspacing on the case mouth as is done with the .45 Auto. Only in recent years has Colt wised up and it now headspaces on the case mouth (which they should have done in the first place!)

Last edited by dmickey; October 28, 2008 at 07:44 PM.
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Old October 28, 2008, 02:16 PM   #4
RickB
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What does that have to do with the external features of the barrels of collectible Colts?
Colt changed to headspacing on the case mouth almost 25 years ago.
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Old October 28, 2008, 02:38 PM   #5
Tamara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB
What does that have to do with the external features of the barrels of collectible Colts?
Colt changed to headspacing on the case mouth almost 25 years ago.
Wow, this is just like being in a real gun store sometimes, isn't it? (Complete with strangers that butt in with info that has nothing to do with the question being asked! I wonder if dmickey is wearing a flannel shirt? )
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Old October 28, 2008, 02:48 PM   #6
Jim Watson
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A fat .38 barrel is the same diameter as a .45 barrel, abnout .580".
A thin .38 barrel is .500" diameter.
I am not aware of a third "larger diameter" barrel, but the collectors get excited over the darndest things.

The Series 70 .38 barrel is reverse taper .580" at the muzzle to fit the collet bushing, but is smaller from locking lugs to that taper.
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Old October 28, 2008, 06:49 PM   #7
tipoc
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In Douglas Sheldon's book "Colt's .38 Super The Production History From 1929 to 1971" he gives the dimensions as:

Pre War: .530 This was the original barrel for the .38 Super

Post War: The "heavy" or "fat" barrel as .580 which was the same as the .45. Colt introduced this as a cost saving measure as the same bushings could be used for both calibers.

Thin barrel: .500 This was introduced in 55-56 or so and was done after the introduction of the Commander in .38 Super and 9mm, both of which had the thin .500 barrel since 1948 to reduce weight. Decreasing the size of the GMs .38 Super barrel allowed for the same bushing to be used in both Commanders and GMs. It also reduced the weight of the GM.38 Super by about an ounce.

Sheldon's book has pics of all three and is a useful thing to have.

Last edited by tipoc; October 30, 2008 at 07:18 PM.
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Old October 28, 2008, 07:18 PM   #8
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Comment not appropriate for a supposed "moderator"

"Wow, this is just like being in a real gun store sometimes, isn't it? (Complete with strangers that butt in with info that has nothing to do with the question being asked! I wonder if dmickey is wearing a flannel shirt?"



Tamara, how about another comment from a stranger?

Your remark about and to "dmickey" is out of line and totally inappropriate for someone who is supposed to be a "moderator".

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Old October 28, 2008, 07:48 PM   #9
dmickey
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Well, Tamara. Other that the time that Colt changed headspacing (time does have a tendency to slip by), tell me that I am wrong!
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Old October 28, 2008, 08:25 PM   #10
Tamara
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dmickey,

73-Captain is right.

For the tone of my comment, I apologize. Please forgive me.

For its basic gist, however, I remain unrepentant. The original poster did not ask "Should I buy a Colt .38 Super?" He did not ask "Are old .38 Super Colts accurate?" or "How do old .38 Super Colts headspace?" He merely asked if there was some place he could get measurements to tell the various generations apart with more exactitude than the "fat barrel/thin barrel" info he had on hand.

Your comment was unhelpful to that end. It did not answer the question. It was not "signal", it was "noise". It took up bandwidth without answering the question and served only to provoke argument, into which I was baited in a moment of foolishness.
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Old October 30, 2008, 07:17 PM   #11
tipoc
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By the way oldbullseye,

You can see more about these excellent guns over here...

http://www.coltautos.com/

The book I mentioned is also listed there and can be ordered.

I mentioned above that the Commander had the "thin" barrel and that this was to reduce weight. Folks may recall that at the end of the second world war the U.S. considered replacing the GM with another design that, among other things, was lighter. Colt's response to this was the Commander which originally had an alloy frame. The slide was also lightened and the barrels of the 9mm and .38 Super guns made thinner than the same barrels in the GM. The military did not change over from the 1911 and so the Commander went to the civilian market but the thinner barrel stayed.

Tamara, I don't think you did so bad at all.

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