Sad News: Gun Rights Loses a Big Fighter

[Yellowfin]

RIP Melanie Hain.

http://www.whtm.com/news/stories/1009/666580.html

Lebanon, Pa. - A Lebanon woman who gained national attention when she openly-carried a handgun at a children's soccer game last year was shot and killed Wednesday night, according to police.

Police say Meleanie Hain and her husband, Scott Hain, died of gunshot wounds they sustained at their home on South Second Avenue.

Officers were dispatched to the home at around 6 p.m. and remained on the scene for several hours as they conducted an investigation into the deaths. Police, however, said the scene was considered to be "closed" and that there was no reason for neighbors to be concerned.

The couple's children were home when the shooting occurred and are staying with family, according to police.

Hain's concealed weapons permit was revoked after she openly wore a holstered pistol to her daughter's soccer game in September 2008. A county judge later overturned the decision and returned her permit.

Those who know her personally strongly suspect this to be domestic violence, a murder-suicide by her husband. If so, I hope he's getting his due punishment right now.

Ongoing discussion at PAFOA:
http://forum.pafoa.org/news-123/7491...d-tonight.html

[Oldfalguy]

that is sad for those kiddos

[hogdogs]

Any of these crimes chap my hide... I do hope the kids were not witness to the killing.
Brent

[GojuBrian]

That is very sad indeed.

[Musketeer]

Very sad and certain to be used as ammo by the left. Whether she was the victim or the perpetrator they will point to this as another case of a gun in the house being tied to domestic violence.

I just can't fathom the selfish, self destructive personalities which kill their spouse and themselves while abandonning their children. I can understand the ones who kill their whole family better while still considering them repugnant.

[pax]

She was the victim, not the perpetrator.

Sad as this event is (and my heart goes out to her children, who according to the news reports did witness the shooting), it really highlights the terrible paradox that firearms self-defense presents for women.

Men who are murdered are overwhelmingly murdered by strangers. But more than a third of women who are murdered, are killed by husbands and boyfriends. (See http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offe.../homicide.html)

This puts a very, very different face on effective defense for a woman than that faced by a man. And that's what we see here: carrying a firearm didn't save her and probably would never have saved her, unless she was truly willing to kill her own husband, the father of her children, in order to defend herself. If she wasn't even willing or able to leave him to save herself, how in the world could she work up the courage to shoot him in order to defend herself against him?

Sad, sad, sad.

pax

[Lee Lapin]

pax,

Thanks for sharing your perspective on this tragedy. You often make me think about things in different ways than I might have if left to my own devices.

lpl

[Musketeer]

Thanks Pax. The woman is almost always the victim but not knowing the details I wasn't stating it either way.

I don't know about men not knowing their killer as I believe the majority do. It is a different type of knowing though. They may be gang members, drug dealers/customers, romantic or business rivals. They know each other but are not in a "relationship" as with much of man on woman crime.

I don't know what lead to this. I don't know what exactly transpired. While I support a woman's right to own a gun and defend herself I think statistically the best thing they can do is to get out at the first raised hand. If a woman lacks the strenght and confidence to do that I doubt she would have it to pull the trigger on the man she loves(d) and father of her children. There are strong emotions at work to make such a decision and I think most men would equally hesitate if the situatin was reversed.

[Yellowfin]

...And it has begun with the other side trashing her. If you have a need to see just what nasty lowlifes the anti 2A people are, you can gander a look at this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/forums/th...threadID=74300

"The woman was a danger to her community, her family and herself. She got what she deserved, in the most fitting manner imaginable. Good riddance."

Can you tell me any reason why this women would need a gun? Most gun deaths happen within the family or involve people they know. Not robbers, etc. You have a gun in your house, it is going to be used on YOU. And it was. Case closed.

Wow. Arrogant fat rednecks with guns. How could something like that go wrong?

They cling to their guns and religion.

I think they should get a Wild Wild West - themed funeral! Everyone can wear their fancy holsters and have a beer-pounding & target practice-reception afterwards. "Getting what they deserve" is too tame a phrase to describe this turn of events. That crazy pig and her mate are no longer running around menacing children under the shroud of their "second amendmant rights". They are wearing real shrouds.

Sad to say, when I saw this headline I thought to myself, "Thank God"-- two more gun toting maniacs are now off the streets of America. At least they used the firearms against themselves and not some innocent person who bumped into them accidently. Why is most of Europe so far ahead of us in gun control?

Typical for these right wingnut, born again freak, republican kooks and fanatics,live by the gun,die by the gun.And I agree, these disgusting pigs were probably running around little league intimidating children and parents, not only by her hideous appearance, but by carrying a gun also.

Sad for the kids but the world is better off without the parents. At least her.

THESE are the real opinions of the anti gun crowd, straight out of the sewer. Maybe some of you guys may dismiss them as being your otherwise kind and friendly neighbors who simply misunderstand us, but this is what they really think.

[ZeSpectre]

THESE are the real opinions of the anti gun crowd, straight out of the sewer.

Yeah, they're pretty bold behind a keyboard. It's interesting how many of them "cut and run" when you are standing next to 'em at a rally or such (and I do speak from experience).
The Cowards.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Those comments are disgusting, but they represent the wider view of those opposed to gun rights only to the extent that "Have a plan to kill everyone you meet." represents the views of pro-gun people.

[Sefner]

Originally Posted by Yellowfin

stuff

If only those people showed the same hatred and animosity towards criminals. Law abiding people (she would have to be to have a CCW) are "fat rednecks", "freaks", "kooks", "fanatics"... "world is better off without... her". But criminals need to be rehabilitated because they are just misguided victims of society.

[pax]

You know the ironic (but not funny) thing about those comments? To a person, the people who typed them probably each believe that guns belong only in the hands of police officers...

Guess what Mark Hain did for a living?



(And as for the religious comments, those are ironic too. She was a Hare Krishna, not exactly a "born again freak." Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant online, huh?)

pax

[ADB]

peetzakilla is right. The loudest, most obnoxious voices are the ones that tend to be heard. If the circumstances were reversed, some extreme opinions might be getting voiced here about how if she had a gun she would still be alive, and anyone who doesn't like guns is pro-wife-murder. But those opinions wouldn't reflect broader sentiment.

In this case, a gun didn't save her--and chances are that nothing really would have other than getting the hell out and never looking back. Having a firearm doesn't do much to protect you from someone who has that kind of personal access to you.

[Double Naught Spy]

She was the victim, not the perpetrator.

So this is fact or conjecture based on what normally happens?

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...ie_hain_h.html

Police have not said who killed whom. They did say the bodies were found on different floors of the family's Lebanon house. Autopsies are scheduled for Friday.

[pax]

DNS ~

The police haven't said, but the neighbors reported that the children were crying that daddy shot mommy as they fled the house.

Also, see the thread at http://forum.pafoa.org/news-123/7491...d-tonight.html for the perspectives of people who knew her in person.

pax

[Double Naught Spy]

Right, that is in the link I posted. However, based on what you posted above, your unequivocal statement, I thought maybe you had something more definitive but you had cited FBI stats which didn't jive as being directly supportive of this specific case.

[imthegrumpyone]

Yellowfin +10 on your RIP, and as for "cowards" and scum that will kill senselessly or as a last resort may they rot in "Hell". The kids didn't deserve this, if he wanted to end it, he could of maned up and took only his self out, suicide is for "cowards" anyway, can't handle life, and can't handle the consequences of there actions. The only good thing is they save money on trials and incarceration.

[.22lr]

1) Tragic loss. I neither knew her, nor much of her. But no one deserves this. No one.

2) I can't understand violence against one's spouse. Or family member, romantic interest... The only thing I can come up with is that there are those among us who are monsters. How or why they are this way, I have no idea. But we as a society seem to turn a blind eye towards this type of thing until after it ends in disaster and death.

3) All I want to do is hug my wife right now.

I just can't wrap my head around the abuse and killing of someone you are supposed to love and protect.
Prayers for Melanie Hain and her devastated children.

[gyvel]

Why is most of Europe so far ahead of us in gun control?

This I find one of the most ironic statements made; Europe: The home of Napoleon Bonaparte, Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Stalin, etc.

[comn-cents]

Just plain sad. Sad for the kids, for the parents and for the people who say the things that they did. I feel sorry for all who were involved and for the people who think this wouldn't have happened if there was not a gun in the house. It made me sad to read the hate people have for another human being because they didn't believe in probably ONE thing. To disagree with someone is one thing but to hate that person, especially in this situation. I feel sorrow for those people who have so much hate for having different beliefs. Feeling sorrow for those people who don’t know me but hate me for not believing in the same things, kind of freaks me out.

[greensteelforge]

Gun ownership, use, and particularly, public carry, is not a team sport. There is no potent "anti-gun" agenda behind criticism of someone who carries weapons to children's sports. While the death of a mother, wife, and fellow human being is tragic, the sorrow felt has little to nothing to do with her stance on gun rights. The statements attacking those who question her motives are equally political to those opposed. I am a liberal, and a conservative, it depends on the issue. I own more guns than any of the self proclaimed conservatives I know, and am far more proficient with them. I am a combat veteran, and critic of any person who advocates for a war they themselves are not going to fight. What makes me a liberal is my belief that we have a basic responsibility to each other to make life in the U.S. of A. as good as we claim it is. So, since we can all have an opinion (whether it's informed or not), let's keep the rhetoric down, and stick to what we all have in common here; an interest, and enthusiasm for shooting sports, and guns.

[comn-cents]

greensteelforge "let's keep the rhetoric down"
This would be the only rhetoric that I see.

[MLeake]

Greensteelforge said:

What makes me a liberal is my belief that we have a basic responsibility to each other to make life in the U.S. of A. as good as we claim it is.

I could as easily say that what makes me a centrist is the belief that we have a basic responsibility to do that, to the extent that we can fund programs with our own money and not other people's or our children's.

I always liked the Margaret Thatcher quote about the problem of eventually running out of other people's money...

With regard to this thread, though - follow-on articles indicate Melanie Hain was shot multiple times with a 9mm (apparently while she was having a webcam conversation with a friend). Scott Hain was shot once in the head with a 12ga. All evidence indicates she was the victim.

Also, for those saying she should have left, she had filed papers in court. Apparently, she was trying to leave. Wouldn't be surprised if that were exactly what triggered the husband - that often seems to be "the last straw" to controlling types.

Pax implies that the husband was a LEO. Haven't found any links to support that. Not meant as a challenge, just wondering if Pax could clarify as to where he worked.

Edit: Never mind, Pax. Latest article I saw said he was a Parole Officer.

Would think that if friends and family immediately assumed a murder-suicide, that there should have been enough evidence for Melanie Hain to at least have attempted to have Scott Hain disarmed under Lautenberg. Don't know if she had tried.

[ADB]

Spending in a representative democracy is always a tricky proposition because you can't make everyone happy. A Quaker doesn't get to dictate that their tax money doesn't go to pay for the military.

Why is most of Europe so far ahead of us in gun control?

Two main reasons. One, there was never as much civilian gun ownership in Europe as there was in America, because by the time firearms became practical for the individual to own, most of western Europe was well past the "pioneer" stage that makes firearms almost a prerequisite. Even today the "rural" parts of western Europe are far tamer, and with fewer dangerous animals, than the rural parts of the US. For instance, there's no large predators left in western Europe. So you start with less demand, less ownership, and also less resistance to the idea of restricting guns.

Second reason is that Europe has a much deeper history of insurrections and revolutions than we do. We've had what, two significant attempts to overthrow our government in the last two centuries? Europe used to have that many a year, if not a month. Case in point, many anti-gun laws were passed in Europe in the period after World War I, when western governments wanted to reduce the available weapons for communist revolutionaries who might have been planning coups. And before that the threat was anarchists, and before that liberals, and on...