When Something Goes Bump in The Night... - Page 3

markj · November 5, 2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

they have a cell phone blocker and they are better trained than you will ever be.

But our 911 VFD radio will keep on working, we are in touch with the dispatch 24/7

city folk

benifits of country life.

Cant say BG will be better trained tho...

Parapliers · November 5, 2009, 08:27 PM

Been having a rash of home invasions in Indianapolis. There was one this morning. An elderly couple was beaten and robbed. The perpetrators weren't ninjas and they didn't enter and hunker down for an ambush. In typical fashion they chose an easy target and used overwhelming force.
It is the nature of trainers to exaggerate dangers. In the real world many mistakes are made without consequences. Reminds me of the rigged drunk driving exhibitions where people drive through a course of cones sober then again after a few drinks. If they hit a cone or if their performance is impaired in any way then, OMG everyone is dead.
I like the tunnel but now I have to add a bilge pump to the growing list of equipment.

fiddletown · November 5, 2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parapliers

...In the real world many mistakes are made without consequences...

Yes, sometimes -- and sometimes not. You can never know in advance.

What problems, crises or challenges will tomorrow bring. I'm not clairvoyant, so I don't know. Do you know? So you can't know what it's going to take to prevail. Overall, I think it's better to try to avoid making mistakes when you can.

There's always luck.But it's been said, "The harder I work, the luckier I get." (attributed to Samuel Goldwyn, Gary Player and Dave Thomas, founder of Wendy's, among others) I think it's also fair to suggest that the better prepared one is, the luckier he'll be.

jborushko · November 5, 2009, 10:47 PM

could try reverse physiology...

i have a 24x36in framed portrait picture of the first family over my fireplace to lull intruders into a false sense of security!

the right application of night vision to give me a great upper hand.

and forget the gun - use a hand grenade to clear a house!

....just kidding....

but seriously. if you gonna clear a house during a break in... try this TURN ON THE LIGHTS!! nice thing about my house is that the hallway switch upstairs pretty much lights up the WHOLE upstairs.

things to invest it:

*security system!

*security lights! (exterior motion lights)

*security camera! (inexpensive small water proof with audio and night vision. relatively easy to install) honestly a 6 to 9 camera SYSTEM can cost around $700, ive spent that over and over again on guns that i dont need. cameras inside and outside the house

*good door locks!

basically (simple home security, though yes the cameras go outside the "simple home security" but IMO only slightly)

Parapliers · November 6, 2009, 10:39 AM

Is SD a dead issue? I'll never have more advantages anywhere than I have in my home. If all attempts at active resistance are doomed to failure in HD situation then when I'm on the street I better keep my eyes peeled for a dumpster to dive into so I can hunker down.
Reminds me of the worst John Wayne movie I remember seeing "War Wagon". It breaks my wife up when I sing the horrible theme song. Several Hummer configurations have inspired me to sing. I'll be tempted now when I see a defensive dumpster.

**Glenn E. Meyer** · November 6, 2009, 10:51 AM

Most civilian training schools teach that if one can avoid and get out of the fight- that is the best strategy. It works at home too!

Self-defense entails a variety of tactics and a strategy that focuses on minimizing damage to you and those you care about. It is not about how you must necessarily start a gun fight.

So before we huff and puff - run an exercise at home against some reasonable intelligent opponents in the middle of the night with airsoft or sims. Leave your doors open and go to sleep. The incident starts with a crash that awakens you - you are in your PJs or whatever. Get a sims or airsoft version of your gun and then go and get the bad guys or in another condition do what it takes to minimize the risk of harm.

It is nice to assume that your opponents are idiots and you are Rambo. Hope that works for you.

fiddletown · November 6, 2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parapliers

...I'll never have more advantages anywhere than I have in my home....

The advantage you have in your own home is the opportunity to assemble your loved ones in a defensible place of safety, arm your self, call for help and let the BGs come to you.

But you have no advantage when you go looking for one (or more BGs -- you won't necessarily know how many), you don't know where he is (or they are), he knows (or they know) you are coming, he knows (or they know) where you'll be coming from (because he knows where the entrance to the room he's in is), and he just waits (or they just wait) for you to show up.

Parapliers · November 6, 2009, 11:17 AM

First I'll have to get an airsoft version of my dogs or one of the actors could clamp a pair of vice grips on his giblets to make the exercise more realistic.
Actors need to be people who don't know me and have never been in my house. They needn't be idiots but they should probably be morons. If they take me out they have to deal with my wife. God help them.
I know how to use cover and concealment. I have been fired upon several times but I have never returned fire. Had cover and didn't have a shot. On one occasion my wife was angry that I made her and my six year old nephew walk two miles out of our way to get back to our car from behind the shooters. She wanted me to advance on two shooters with rifles from 200 yards with my mouse gun so she wouldn't have to walk so far. She would have gone after them with a switch if I had let her.
Rambo made "War Wagon" look good.

OldMarksman · November 6, 2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Is SD a dead issue?

I think you have missed the point entirely. The question has been whether to go around trying to "hunt" what may be more than one dangerous persons, thereby giving them a tremendous tactical advantage, or whether to let them come to you, where you will have the advantage.

When the threat does come to you, and it might, I do not think your shooting him can be considered anything other than active resistance.

Quote:

I'll never have more advantages anywhere than I have in my home.

That's true. Why would you want to give them up completely by willfully exposing yourself to gunfire or to ambush by someone with a knife?

Quote:

If all attempts at active resistance are doomed to failure in HD situation then when I'm on the street I better keep my eyes peeled for a dumpster to dive into so I can hunker down.

I don't think I'd dive into one, but I sure would get behind one if it were the best cover available. On one of the gun shows the other night, Jim Wilson demonstrated how to use cover--preferably the kind that could stop a bullet--to one's advantage in an outdoor encounter with an armed criminal. Excellent material.

Have you availed yourself of any self-defense training for civilian situations? It would seem not, and I think it would be a good idea.

**pax** · November 6, 2009, 11:31 AM

Personally, I think it's a bad idea to count on luck in a gunfight. As Tom Givens points out, if you are fighting for your life with a pistol in hand, today is not your lucky day.

pax

Brasscatcher84 · November 6, 2009, 11:47 AM

I went to an army surplus store and bought a web pistol belt with the big plastic buckle. I have a holster w/ my 1911A1 in it, my Ka-bar, Surefire light, and two mags in a pouch. If I need to, I'll get up, put the belt on over my shorts, and do what I have to do.

BTW, a LEO friend of mine told me that if you have to shoot an intruder, only a fool calls 911 before the bad guy stops breathing. Any thoughts on that little pearl of wisdom?

**Glenn E. Meyer** · November 6, 2009, 11:49 AM

What if you shot him in the leg and he gives up? Might be there a long time.

Another pearl of wisdom.

PS - no, you didn't shoot him in the leg to wound him. I know that we are are consumate markspeople - but maybe in the course of the excitement that happened.

fiddletown · November 6, 2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brasscatcher84

....only a fool calls 911 before the bad guy stops breathing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer

...What if you shot him in the leg and he gives up? Might be there a long time....

And the longer the delay in calling it in, the more interested the DA will be in you, and the harder the questions he asks will be. That will also be the case if someone else has called it in before you did.

You're going to want everyone to believe that you were the good guy. You need to act like the good guy, from the beginning and every step of the way.

JAG06 · November 6, 2009, 01:01 PM

All our bedrooms are upstairs, so our plan is for me to cover the stairs with the Mossy 500 loaded with 00, have wife herd the kids into the master bathroom, and have wife call 911 from a cell. I would not try to clear the downstairs because it would be too easy for a BG to get behind me, especially if there is more than one. But if a BG tries to come up the stairs...

CWPinSC · November 7, 2009, 08:21 AM

Quote:

The ninja BGs have cut the phone and power and they have a cell phone blocker and they are better trained than you will ever be.

Are you serious? Most of the home invasion BGs are crazed dope heads whose only training is how to stick a needle into their arm. Their decision to hit your house is a spur of the moment "I need money" thought. They've planned to break in, stick a gun in your face, and make off with the money. Anything that differs from that flow chart really messes them up. They couldn't find a phone line or pull a power meter if you showed them how. Many of the home invasion rapists are known by their victim. It's a "she won't give it to me, I'll take it" plan.

Now, I'm NOT making light of these scum bags - they're very dangerous. That's why you fight with every advantage you have.

IF it actually happens your way, and you're completely cut off, time is still on your side. They counted on a quick in/out, not a prolonged siege. They don't have the time, patience, or willingness for a prolonged gun battle with an armed, determined citizen. Criminals like it easy. They'll hit your position or leave in disgust long before you need food or water - as you so quaintly put it. Unless they have grenades or bazookas, they're exposing themselves with limited resources - coming to you in concealment with unknown firepower. It's YOUR advantage all the way.

Let'em have the TV, let'em shoot up the house - that's why I pay gawd-awful high insurance premiums. Lee Greenwood said it, "If tomorrow all the things were gone,
I’d worked for all my life. And I had to start again, with just my children and my wife.
I’d thank my lucky stars,"

I'm alive and uninjured, so are my wife and children. I've won this fight!

or

I saved my TV and stereo, but I'm crippled for life by a BG's bullet...I don't see a winner here!

**Glenn E. Meyer** · November 7, 2009, 11:59 AM

Great post.

We see a lot of emotional territorial violation posts here as compared to rational risk evaluation. It's not manly to announce on the internet that you won't fight if you have the option to flee and that you won't win every fight and your shots might go astray.

RC1986 · November 9, 2009, 12:59 AM

i have 2 rottweilers to defend my house and buy me enough time to draw out the maverick 88 shotgun or my glock 19 and glock 23 combo.

geologist · November 9, 2009, 03:14 PM

These two sleep in our bedroom and will alert us if something is amiss.

Bedroom door is a sold wood door with a deadbolt and a Guardian latch.

Cellphones are charging in our bedroom to call 911.

In case the BG's attempt to get into our bedroom, I keep this triggerlocked in my bedroom closet. I keep OO buckshot for it in my bedroom closet digital safe. Also in the safe is my G17 with nightsights, an M3 light plus 3 loaded magazines of 115 gr JHP. All of this is compliant with Canada's ridiculous gun laws.

November 5, 2009, 08:27 PM	#52
Parapliers Member Join Date: June 10, 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 93	Rash Been having a rash of home invasions in Indianapolis. There was one this morning. An elderly couple was beaten and robbed. The perpetrators weren't ninjas and they didn't enter and hunker down for an ambush. In typical fashion they chose an easy target and used overwhelming force. It is the nature of trainers to exaggerate dangers. In the real world many mistakes are made without consequences. Reminds me of the rigged drunk driving exhibitions where people drive through a course of cones sober then again after a few drinks. If they hit a cone or if their performance is impaired in any way then, OMG everyone is dead. I like the tunnel but now I have to add a bilge pump to the growing list of equipment. __________________ Liberatas sed non fortuno

November 5, 2009, 10:47 PM	#54
jborushko Member Join Date: August 5, 2009 Location: Tacoma WA Posts: 21	could try reverse physiology... i have a 24x36in framed portrait picture of the first family over my fireplace to lull intruders into a false sense of security! the right application of night vision to give me a great upper hand. and forget the gun - use a hand grenade to clear a house! ....just kidding.... but seriously. if you gonna clear a house during a break in... try this TURN ON THE LIGHTS!! nice thing about my house is that the hallway switch upstairs pretty much lights up the WHOLE upstairs. things to invest it: security system! security lights! (exterior motion lights) security camera! (inexpensive small water proof with audio and night vision. relatively easy to install) honestly a 6 to 9 camera SYSTEM can cost around $700, ive spent that over and over again on guns that i dont need. cameras inside and outside the house good door locks! basically (simple home security, though yes the cameras go outside the "simple home security" but IMO only slightly) __________________ EDIT: yeah i always "edit" my posts Last edited by jborushko; November 5, 2009 at 10:59 PM.

November 6, 2009, 10:39 AM	#55
Parapliers Member Join Date: June 10, 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 93	Dumpster Diving Is SD a dead issue? I'll never have more advantages anywhere than I have in my home. If all attempts at active resistance are doomed to failure in HD situation then when I'm on the street I better keep my eyes peeled for a dumpster to dive into so I can hunker down. Reminds me of the worst John Wayne movie I remember seeing "War Wagon". It breaks my wife up when I sing the horrible theme song. Several Hummer configurations have inspired me to sing. I'll be tempted now when I see a defensive dumpster. __________________ Liberatas sed non fortuno

November 6, 2009, 10:51 AM	#56
Glenn E. Meyer Staff Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 5,972	Most civilian training schools teach that if one can avoid and get out of the fight- that is the best strategy. It works at home too! Self-defense entails a variety of tactics and a strategy that focuses on minimizing damage to you and those you care about. It is not about how you must necessarily start a gun fight. So before we huff and puff - run an exercise at home against some reasonable intelligent opponents in the middle of the night with airsoft or sims. Leave your doors open and go to sleep. The incident starts with a crash that awakens you - you are in your PJs or whatever. Get a sims or airsoft version of your gun and then go and get the bad guys or in another condition do what it takes to minimize the risk of harm. It is nice to assume that your opponents are idiots and you are Rambo. Hope that works for you. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - www.rivercityshooters.com Being an Academic Shooter http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm Being an Active Shooter http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm

November 6, 2009, 11:17 AM	#58
Parapliers Member Join Date: June 10, 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 93	Huffy First I'll have to get an airsoft version of my dogs or one of the actors could clamp a pair of vice grips on his giblets to make the exercise more realistic. Actors need to be people who don't know me and have never been in my house. They needn't be idiots but they should probably be morons. If they take me out they have to deal with my wife. God help them. I know how to use cover and concealment. I have been fired upon several times but I have never returned fire. Had cover and didn't have a shot. On one occasion my wife was angry that I made her and my six year old nephew walk two miles out of our way to get back to our car from behind the shooters. She wanted me to advance on two shooters with rifles from 200 yards with my mouse gun so she wouldn't have to walk so far. She would have gone after them with a switch if I had let her. Rambo made "War Wagon" look good. __________________ Liberatas sed non fortuno

November 6, 2009, 11:31 AM	#60
pax Staff Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: Washington state Posts: 4,475	Personally, I think it's a bad idea to count on luck in a gunfight. As Tom Givens points out, if you are fighting for your life with a pistol in hand, today is not your lucky day. pax __________________ Kathy Jackson Managing Editor, Concealed Carry Magazine My personal website: Cornered Cat Buy my book! Lessons from Armed America, with Mark Walters

November 6, 2009, 11:47 AM	#61
Brasscatcher84 Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 34	I went to an army surplus store and bought a web pistol belt with the big plastic buckle. I have a holster w/ my 1911A1 in it, my Ka-bar, Surefire light, and two mags in a pouch. If I need to, I'll get up, put the belt on over my shorts, and do what I have to do. BTW, a LEO friend of mine told me that if you have to shoot an intruder, only a fool calls 911 before the bad guy stops breathing. Any thoughts on that little pearl of wisdom?

November 6, 2009, 11:49 AM	#62
Glenn E. Meyer Staff Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 5,972	What if you shot him in the leg and he gives up? Might be there a long time. Another pearl of wisdom. PS - no, you didn't shoot him in the leg to wound him. I know that we are are consumate markspeople - but maybe in the course of the excitement that happened. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - www.rivercityshooters.com Being an Academic Shooter http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm Being an Active Shooter http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm

November 6, 2009, 01:01 PM	#64
JAG06 Member Join Date: April 22, 2007 Posts: 27	All our bedrooms are upstairs, so our plan is for me to cover the stairs with the Mossy 500 loaded with 00, have wife herd the kids into the master bathroom, and have wife call 911 from a cell. I would not try to clear the downstairs because it would be too easy for a BG to get behind me, especially if there is more than one. But if a BG tries to come up the stairs...

November 7, 2009, 11:59 AM	#66
Glenn E. Meyer Staff Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 5,972	Great post. We see a lot of emotional territorial violation posts here as compared to rational risk evaluation. It's not manly to announce on the internet that you won't fight if you have the option to flee and that you won't win every fight and your shots might go astray. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - www.rivercityshooters.com Being an Academic Shooter http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm Being an Active Shooter http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm

November 9, 2009, 12:59 AM	#67
RC1986 Member Join Date: November 6, 2009 Location: New England Posts: 44	i have 2 rottweilers to defend my house and buy me enough time to draw out the maverick 88 shotgun or my glock 19 and glock 23 combo. __________________ Sniping your enemy is like hunting any other animal.

November 9, 2009, 03:14 PM	#68
geologist Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2005 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 111	These two sleep in our bedroom and will alert us if something is amiss. Bedroom door is a sold wood door with a deadbolt and a Guardian latch. Cellphones are charging in our bedroom to call 911. In case the BG's attempt to get into our bedroom, I keep this triggerlocked in my bedroom closet. I keep OO buckshot for it in my bedroom closet digital safe. Also in the safe is my G17 with nightsights, an M3 light plus 3 loaded magazines of 115 gr JHP. All of this is compliant with Canada's ridiculous gun laws.