WW 296 and 210gr JHP?

Sport45 · January 6, 2001, 02:25 PM

I bought some WW-296 to try a slower powder in my 7.5" SBH. Trouble is, I got home and found that Winchester doesn't list load data for the 210gr JHP bullet. (I have at least a thousand of 'em) My LEE manual says to use data for the next higher weight in this case, but I've heard you should never reduce loads of 296. Would you recommend 24 grains which Winchester specifies for 240 grain jacketed bullets, or 27 grains, which is listed in my LEE manual as the load for H-110 (supposedly the same powder)? Any help would be appreciated.

**Mike Irwin** · January 6, 2001, 02:41 PM

110 and 296 are NOT the same powder. They're just different enough that you could get into trouble.

I'm assuming that you're shooting a .44 Mag., correct?

Let me check and see if my manuals have anything on this.

Timothy · January 7, 2001, 10:27 AM

Check a Sierra manual......if you're loading 44Mag they show a 296 load for 210 gr. JHC (hollow cavity, not hollow point)

**Mal H** · January 7, 2001, 10:51 AM

Actually Mike, W296 and H110 are the same powder. They are both made by Primex Technologies as are almost all Ball powders. Both powders are made the same in the same batches and shipped to both Winchester and Hodgdon for packaging. The only difference is the can you buy them in. The differences you will notice in the reloading manuals comes from small differences in testing procedures, chronographing, pressure testing, barrel lengths, etc., etc.

That said, it is still a very wise procedure to reduce a load 10% when changing any component. However with the known nature of W296 and H110 to cause problems when reduced, the reduction figure is 3%. Also, I still think it is wise to stick to loads stated for each specific powder if at all possible. Not all reloading data is totally interchangable for the two powders even if they are the same due to the factors stated above.

Sport45 · January 7, 2001, 11:03 AM

Thanks for the quick replies. Yes, it is a .44mag. I will trty to find a Sierra manual (hopefully online) to get a published load. The Winchester manual states that 296 is sensitive to load density. I don't have any 240 grain bullets left to compare the distance from the base to the cannelure. If it was the same for 240 vs 210, I'd probably just use the 240gr load data.

**Mike Irwin** · January 7, 2001, 02:18 PM

Mal,

Are you sure about that? As far as I know, the Winchester and Hodgdon powders have the same base composition, it's the deterrent coatings that are plated on in final operation that makes the difference. The formulations are slightly different.

**Mal H** · January 7, 2001, 07:19 PM

Mike, I really can't say I'm positive that the two powders are identical. But I talked with a rep from Winchester about their ball powders about a year ago and he said they were the same. A carload of a particular batch was sent to Hodgdon and another carload of the same batch was sent to WW. Primex was previously owned by Olin which owned or was owned by WW, not sure which way it was.

Looking at Speer #12 and the .44 Mag pages, the results of both H110 and W296 are statistically the same. I see that they occassionally use 1/2 grain more H110 than W296, but they also get a little more velocity from that 1/2 grain which would be expected if the powders were very similar. The data for the 300 gr. SP shows a 2 fps difference at the min load, the max velocity is identical.

September 18, 2001, 01:22 AM

Have used 25 gr. H110 w/ 210 gr. Sierra JHC and CCI LMP. Gave 1836 fps in a 16" barreled carbine. No pressure signs seen and extraction easy.

Kinda late

Kilgor

WESHOOT2 · September 18, 2001, 04:23 AM

Even if they are the exact same powders your lots will vary, as will your specific guns.

HIGHLY RECOMMEND NEVER EVER treating H110 and W296 as "same". This is based on actual testing; significant performance differences can occur with as littla as .5g change!

PS they look different (try 10X) and smell different - suspect coating

sricciardelli · September 18, 2001, 01:06 PM

It would have been nice to know what caliber you are reloading.

As for the two powders being identical, they are not...

Suggest you go to my reloading data page...

January 7, 2001, 10:27 AM	#3
Timothy Member Join Date: November 26, 2000 Posts: 97	Check a Sierra manual......if you're loading 44Mag they show a 296 load for 210 gr. JHC (hollow cavity, not hollow point) __________________ "There ain't no use runnin' if you're on the wrong road."

September 18, 2001, 04:23 AM	#9
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	WEIGHING IN Even if they are the exact same powders your lots will vary, as will your specific guns. HIGHLY RECOMMEND NEVER EVER treating H110 and W296 as "same". This is based on actual testing; significant performance differences can occur with as littla as .5g change! PS they look different (try 10X) and smell different - suspect coating __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

January 6, 2001, 02:25 PM	#1
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	I bought some WW-296 to try a slower powder in my 7.5" SBH. Trouble is, I got home and found that Winchester doesn't list load data for the 210gr JHP bullet. (I have at least a thousand of 'em) My LEE manual says to use data for the next higher weight in this case, but I've heard you should never reduce loads of 296. Would you recommend 24 grains which Winchester specifies for 240 grain jacketed bullets, or 27 grains, which is listed in my LEE manual as the load for H-110 (supposedly the same powder)? Any help would be appreciated.

January 6, 2001, 02:41 PM	#2
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	110 and 296 are NOT the same powder. They're just different enough that you could get into trouble. I'm assuming that you're shooting a .44 Mag., correct? Let me check and see if my manuals have anything on this.

January 7, 2001, 10:51 AM	#4
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,947	Actually Mike, W296 and H110 are the same powder. They are both made by Primex Technologies as are almost all Ball powders. Both powders are made the same in the same batches and shipped to both Winchester and Hodgdon for packaging. The only difference is the can you buy them in. The differences you will notice in the reloading manuals comes from small differences in testing procedures, chronographing, pressure testing, barrel lengths, etc., etc. That said, it is still a very wise procedure to reduce a load 10% when changing any component. However with the known nature of W296 and H110 to cause problems when reduced, the reduction figure is 3%. Also, I still think it is wise to stick to loads stated for each specific powder if at all possible. Not all reloading data is totally interchangable for the two powders even if they are the same due to the factors stated above.

January 7, 2001, 11:03 AM	#5
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Thanks for the quick replies. Yes, it is a .44mag. I will trty to find a Sierra manual (hopefully online) to get a published load. The Winchester manual states that 296 is sensitive to load density. I don't have any 240 grain bullets left to compare the distance from the base to the cannelure. If it was the same for 240 vs 210, I'd probably just use the 240gr load data.

January 7, 2001, 02:18 PM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Mal, Are you sure about that? As far as I know, the Winchester and Hodgdon powders have the same base composition, it's the deterrent coatings that are plated on in final operation that makes the difference. The formulations are slightly different.

January 7, 2001, 07:19 PM	#7
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,947	Mike, I really can't say I'm positive that the two powders are identical. But I talked with a rep from Winchester about their ball powders about a year ago and he said they were the same. A carload of a particular batch was sent to Hodgdon and another carload of the same batch was sent to WW. Primex was previously owned by Olin which owned or was owned by WW, not sure which way it was. Looking at Speer #12 and the .44 Mag pages, the results of both H110 and W296 are statistically the same. I see that they occassionally use 1/2 grain more H110 than W296, but they also get a little more velocity from that 1/2 grain which would be expected if the powders were very similar. The data for the 300 gr. SP shows a 2 fps difference at the min load, the max velocity is identical.

September 18, 2001, 01:22 AM	#8
KilgorII Guest Posts: n/a	Have used 25 gr. H110 w/ 210 gr. Sierra JHC and CCI LMP. Gave 1836 fps in a 16" barreled carbine. No pressure signs seen and extraction easy. Kinda late Kilgor

September 18, 2001, 01:06 PM	#10
sricciardelli Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: Montana Posts: 489	It would have been nice to know what caliber you are reloading. As for the two powders being identical, they are not... Suggest you go to my reloading data page...