Robinson Arms might go under

George Hill · June 10, 2002, 12:45 PM

I can't tell you how I heard it, but a little bird to me that Robinson Armaments might go under.
These are the guys that make the M96 and import what are probably the finest AK variants ever.

I can't say this news was surprising. The head honcho Alex himself is insistant on being involved in every single move the company makes... this isn't so bad, but Alex has a way of turning people off. Seems Alex's caustic charms are not the only issues, rather that it has become in this last year difficult to get things from R.A. such as repairs... or other customer service services. Thats not cool. Alex may know guns, but I don't think he really knows what he is doing when it comes to selling the guns and creating a loyal customer base.

If I was WILSON COMBAT or KIMBER or ROCK RIVER... I would be looking at buying out RA and taking it over. Because they (R.A.) do have good product.

Goet · June 10, 2002, 01:23 PM

I would consider a run on parts for my VEPR, but they don't sell any.

Guess I screwed up when I bought a VEPR (?)

[Oh please, please, please let someone buy them out and make it better]

Correia · June 10, 2002, 01:31 PM

I wouldn't worry to much Goet, anything that could break on your Vepr could be replaced with an AK part. Unless you plan on breaking the receiver.

That is bad news. It is the little companies that are the innovative ones. I hope that they make it.

Watch-Six · June 10, 2002, 01:35 PM

That is bad news, but not too surprising. Watch-Six

Goet · June 10, 2002, 01:57 PM

Well the handguard and buttstock are VEPR specific. I'd have to Frankenstein my rifle if I wanted to replace them.

I'm not sure about internals. Someone asked if they were compatible with standard AK parts packages on the Robarms forum and I don't remember the answer ever coming up.

Not to mention, their mag follower for the .223 is still the most reliable option.

Goet · June 10, 2002, 01:58 PM

Where's Dell Schwanze when you need him?

bastiat · June 10, 2002, 02:11 PM

hmmm... maybe DSA can get into the high-quality imported AK/ M96 business.

Nightcrawler · June 10, 2002, 02:13 PM

I would love it if DSA took them over. FALs and M96s would go together VERY well....

Goet · June 10, 2002, 02:19 PM

Uh.... Would that be similar to the Springfield "XD"?

Would we see a 20-30% jump in retail?

Nah. Bring on Dell.

Zak Smith · June 10, 2002, 03:25 PM

Well, then: I hope they do get bought by someone competent. Business and customer sense may be lacking, but they do have designs worth something.

I would love to buy my next M96 "thing" from DSA instead of RobArms..

-z

dZ · June 10, 2002, 03:29 PM

Molot will continue to make Veprs

someone else might pick up the contract for distribution
Some one like DSA would be able to handle the US remanufacture

Goet · June 10, 2002, 03:51 PM

Alex is being interviewed on Guntalk right now (almost over). He alluded to a possible military contract. Also, mentioned plans of future designs.

How sure is your source?

Matt Sutton · June 10, 2002, 04:36 PM

Does anyone know where Robinson is getting their .223 magazine followers? Are they available from any other source?
If no, I'll be taking a trip there tomorrow at lunch to buy about 10 more.

George Hill · June 10, 2002, 05:34 PM

Dude that works there. That's all I'm saying.

George Hill · June 10, 2002, 05:36 PM

Is there an online stream of GunTalk?

**JohnKSa** · June 10, 2002, 07:11 PM

Krebs Custom can fix your VEPR if anything breaks. This isn't going to cause any problems at all, as far as I can see. You might want to buy a couple of mags to tide you over till someone else starts importing them.

On the other hand, you can have Krebs convert your gun to take another type of mag too...

Jamie Young · June 11, 2002, 01:51 AM

Quote:

I would love it if DSA took them over. FALs and M96s would go together VERY well....

That would be a great idea. I think DSA could probable put out anything and people would buy it. DSA has such a good reputation and following.

Goet · June 11, 2002, 09:16 AM

http://12.162.161.64/cart/ProductLis...D&SearchFor=23

Alex Robinson · June 11, 2002, 11:09 PM

George Hill.

Most people would get upset at such stuff. I don't because I understand jealousy. This isn't the first time someone who didn't like me has posted a lot of BS.

Obviously, I've been saying too many bad things about the AR15 or some of the junk AKs out there and someone is unhappy.

Hill (if that's his real name)is right about one thing: I know more about guns than most people do. I don't know it all.

While every other U.S. gun maker has copied AR15s, FALs, M14s, I came up with something new. Though the M96 looks a lot like a Stoner, all the mechanism was designed completely anew by us. And, you know what?, it works better than my orignal Stoner 63.

Yea, I'm proud of it. I may even sound a little arrogant at time. I'm sorry for that. Every national gun show I go to, I have customers tell me the M96 is their favorite gun. I also get told by peopel who have M96s that they don't shoot their ARs any more.

Our sales are growing monthly. Our product line is increasing. We'd consider buying Rock River, DS, or someone else, but we're not interested in the same old stuff.

Now Mr. Dung Hill. You don't have the slightest clue about who in Utah has our guns or where they are sold. For any Utahns visiting this site, our most excellent firearms can be had through the following real dealers:

Gallensons; Impact/Shadow Valley Arms; Tight Group Enterprises, just to name a few.

Anyway, if anyone wants to check out some real rifles www.robarm.com is the place. We have the best guns period. We're not afraid to say it.

Sincerely,

Alex J. Robinson

I'm sure Rock River or DS or Colt or Knight would love to buy Robinson Armament. Too bad it's not for sale.

He's right about one thing. Alex Robinson comes across as an arrogant ass. He also doesn't know everything about guns. However, he knows a lot more than anyone who thinks an AR15 is a sound battle rifle. He also smarter than those who cling to obsolete battle rifles like the FALs and M14 though he personally owns and likes many of each.

No, Robinson isn't liked because he has chosen to build new and exciting stuff rather than just copy some ancient design.

Robinson Armament has many enemies but I can assure it is well and growing as it never has before. We just hire an additional full time engineer this week so we can get more neat stuff to market quicker.

Yes, there's always lots of rumors. Especially by those who cannot compete with us. I

Badger Arms · June 11, 2002, 11:46 PM

Well, heck. I'll buy one. Problem is, I'd rather pay about $400 or $500 less for it than they're making it for. The price of quality? Okay. Frankly, I prefer the AR-180 design but that rifle is also a relatively unproven design.

If Alex is listening to us... here goes:

HEY, ALEX!!! Just hire a smooth salesman and let him handle public relations. Delegate responsibility for sales and customer service. Sit back and run the R&D and manufacturing side of things. I think you've got a great product. Just my 3 cents.

Zak Smith · June 12, 2002, 12:02 AM

Perhaps the same information could have been expressed without the personal insults? I would have been more impressed, anyway.

That aside, onto technical matters: why the two-part gas piston? Over in this thread:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...&highlight=m96

I posted the experience I have with my M96 - what broke, and why. This failure has shaken my confidence in the rifle. My FAL's seem much more "robust", not to mention that this particular failure is impossible with that rifle.

-z

Steve Smith · June 12, 2002, 12:40 AM

I really spent a lot of time at the Robinson Armament booth at the Shot Show this year. I wanted to order a Recon Carbine for myself. After the personal insults from Alex, I won't give him a dime of my money.

Hemicuda · June 12, 2002, 08:09 AM

The order was ready to go in on my new M96... until I read the insults from Alex Robinson... what an ass he made of himself... I'll just have to save my money and pick up that match Garand I have always wanted...

Sorry, Mr. Robinson... your attitude turned me off... !

Alex Robinson · June 12, 2002, 08:34 AM

I can tell I'm not in good company on this forum. But lets see any of your match this:

I'm the only american manufacturer who has come up with a decent new rifle in the past 30 years. Yes there were there was the hollaway and some neat bushmaster bull pups. However, I have outlasted them and will be taking more and more of the .223 market.

Yes, we've had some problems. The M16 went through many many revisions and still doesn't work. It hasn't taken us 30 years to find and fix all our problems. We did it in 3 years. The current M96 can take on any competitor.

We've even designed guns for the military but I cannot say more. I will be able to soon.

I guess that interview I did ruffled some feathers. The truth is hard.

fix · June 12, 2002, 08:41 AM

Alex, I think you should have done a little research on George and The Firing Line before you decided to start flinging the insults. The Firing Line is not some tiny little BBS frequented by members of bubba's local gun club. It is a HUGE online community populated by an enormous number of your potential customers. You have probably sealed your fate should you let this slip away without an apology. George may very well owe you an apology, but at this point, that's debatable. You definately owe him one.

June 10, 2002, 12:45 PM	#1
George Hill Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: North Carolina Posts: 11,546	Robinson Arms might go under I can't tell you how I heard it, but a little bird to me that Robinson Armaments might go under. These are the guys that make the M96 and import what are probably the finest AK variants ever. I can't say this news was surprising. The head honcho Alex himself is insistant on being involved in every single move the company makes... this isn't so bad, but Alex has a way of turning people off. Seems Alex's caustic charms are not the only issues, rather that it has become in this last year difficult to get things from R.A. such as repairs... or other customer service services. Thats not cool. Alex may know guns, but I don't think he really knows what he is doing when it comes to selling the guns and creating a loyal customer base. If I was WILSON COMBAT or KIMBER or ROCK RIVER... I would be looking at buying out RA and taking it over. Because they (R.A.) do have good product. __________________ MAD OGRE Last edited by George Hill; June 12, 2002 at 04:37 PM.

June 10, 2002, 01:23 PM	#2
Goet Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2000 Location: North Ogden, UT Posts: 953	I would consider a run on parts for my VEPR, but they don't sell any. Guess I screwed up when I bought a VEPR (?) [Oh please, please, please let someone buy them out and make it better] __________________ Bomb Canada!

June 10, 2002, 01:57 PM	#5
Goet Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2000 Location: North Ogden, UT Posts: 953	Well the handguard and buttstock are VEPR specific. I'd have to Frankenstein my rifle if I wanted to replace them. I'm not sure about internals. Someone asked if they were compatible with standard AK parts packages on the Robarms forum and I don't remember the answer ever coming up. Not to mention, their mag follower for the .223 is still the most reliable option. __________________ Bomb Canada!

June 10, 2002, 01:58 PM	#6
Goet Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2000 Location: North Ogden, UT Posts: 953	Where's Dell Schwanze when you need him? __________________ Bomb Canada!

June 10, 2002, 02:11 PM	#7
bastiat Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2001 Posts: 1,771	hmmm... maybe DSA can get into the high-quality imported AK/ M96 business. __________________ Flashbunny.org - Pro-Freedom Propaganda Politically Incorrect & Pro-Gun Stuff To Buy

June 10, 2002, 01:31 PM	#3
Correia Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 1998 Location: SLC Utah Posts: 3,740	I wouldn't worry to much Goet, anything that could break on your Vepr could be replaced with an AK part. Unless you plan on breaking the receiver. That is bad news. It is the little companies that are the innovative ones. I hope that they make it.

June 10, 2002, 01:35 PM	#4
Watch-Six Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2000 Location: Utah Posts: 654	That is bad news, but not too surprising. Watch-Six

June 10, 2002, 02:13 PM	#8
Nightcrawler Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2000 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,945	I would love it if DSA took them over. FALs and M96s would go together VERY well.... __________________ Nightcrawler- TFL Alumnus

June 10, 2002, 02:19 PM	#9
Goet Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2000 Location: North Ogden, UT Posts: 953	Uh.... Would that be similar to the Springfield "XD"? Would we see a 20-30% jump in retail? Nah. Bring on Dell. __________________ Bomb Canada!

June 10, 2002, 03:25 PM	#10
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	Well, then: I hope they do get bought by someone competent. Business and customer sense may be lacking, but they do have designs worth something. I would love to buy my next M96 "thing" from DSA instead of RobArms.. -z

June 10, 2002, 03:29 PM	#11
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,548	Molot will continue to make Veprs someone else might pick up the contract for distribution Some one like DSA would be able to handle the US remanufacture __________________ "O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes." BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters

June 10, 2002, 03:51 PM	#12
Goet Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2000 Location: North Ogden, UT Posts: 953	Alex is being interviewed on Guntalk right now (almost over). He alluded to a possible military contract. Also, mentioned plans of future designs. How sure is your source? __________________ Bomb Canada!

June 10, 2002, 04:36 PM	#13
Matt Sutton Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 1999 Posts: 271	My #1 Concern Does anyone know where Robinson is getting their .223 magazine followers? Are they available from any other source? If no, I'll be taking a trip there tomorrow at lunch to buy about 10 more.

June 10, 2002, 05:34 PM	#14
George Hill Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: North Carolina Posts: 11,546	Dude that works there. That's all I'm saying. __________________ MAD OGRE

June 10, 2002, 05:36 PM	#15
George Hill Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: North Carolina Posts: 11,546	Is there an online stream of GunTalk? __________________ MAD OGRE

June 10, 2002, 07:11 PM	#16
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,972	Don't sweat it guys... Krebs Custom can fix your VEPR if anything breaks. This isn't going to cause any problems at all, as far as I can see. You might want to buy a couple of mags to tide you over till someone else starts importing them. On the other hand, you can have Krebs convert your gun to take another type of mag too...

June 11, 2002, 09:16 AM	#18
Goet Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2000 Location: North Ogden, UT Posts: 953	The archives haven't been updated yet. http://12.162.161.64/cart/ProductLis...D&SearchFor=23 __________________ Bomb Canada!

June 11, 2002, 11:09 PM	#19
Alex Robinson Junior Member Join Date: February 16, 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 5	George Hill. Most people would get upset at such stuff. I don't because I understand jealousy. This isn't the first time someone who didn't like me has posted a lot of BS. Obviously, I've been saying too many bad things about the AR15 or some of the junk AKs out there and someone is unhappy. Hill (if that's his real name)is right about one thing: I know more about guns than most people do. I don't know it all. While every other U.S. gun maker has copied AR15s, FALs, M14s, I came up with something new. Though the M96 looks a lot like a Stoner, all the mechanism was designed completely anew by us. And, you know what?, it works better than my orignal Stoner 63. Yea, I'm proud of it. I may even sound a little arrogant at time. I'm sorry for that. Every national gun show I go to, I have customers tell me the M96 is their favorite gun. I also get told by peopel who have M96s that they don't shoot their ARs any more. Our sales are growing monthly. Our product line is increasing. We'd consider buying Rock River, DS, or someone else, but we're not interested in the same old stuff. Now Mr. Dung Hill. You don't have the slightest clue about who in Utah has our guns or where they are sold. For any Utahns visiting this site, our most excellent firearms can be had through the following real dealers: Gallensons; Impact/Shadow Valley Arms; Tight Group Enterprises, just to name a few. Anyway, if anyone wants to check out some real rifles www.robarm.com is the place. We have the best guns period. We're not afraid to say it. Sincerely, Alex J. Robinson I'm sure Rock River or DS or Colt or Knight would love to buy Robinson Armament. Too bad it's not for sale. He's right about one thing. Alex Robinson comes across as an arrogant ass. He also doesn't know everything about guns. However, he knows a lot more than anyone who thinks an AR15 is a sound battle rifle. He also smarter than those who cling to obsolete battle rifles like the FALs and M14 though he personally owns and likes many of each. No, Robinson isn't liked because he has chosen to build new and exciting stuff rather than just copy some ancient design. Robinson Armament has many enemies but I can assure it is well and growing as it never has before. We just hire an additional full time engineer this week so we can get more neat stuff to market quicker. Yes, there's always lots of rumors. Especially by those who cannot compete with us. I

June 11, 2002, 11:46 PM	#20
Badger Arms Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2000 Location: Harnett County, NC Posts: 1,700	Well, heck. I'll buy one. Problem is, I'd rather pay about $400 or $500 less for it than they're making it for. The price of quality? Okay. Frankly, I prefer the AR-180 design but that rifle is also a relatively unproven design. If Alex is listening to us... here goes: HEY, ALEX!!! Just hire a smooth salesman and let him handle public relations. Delegate responsibility for sales and customer service. Sit back and run the R&D and manufacturing side of things. I think you've got a great product. Just my 3 cents. __________________ We may or may not worship God, but John Moses Browning made sure we can choose.

June 12, 2002, 12:02 AM	#21
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	Perhaps the same information could have been expressed without the personal insults? I would have been more impressed, anyway. That aside, onto technical matters: why the two-part gas piston? Over in this thread: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...&highlight=m96 I posted the experience I have with my M96 - what broke, and why. This failure has shaken my confidence in the rifle. My FAL's seem much more "robust", not to mention that this particular failure is impossible with that rifle. -z

June 12, 2002, 12:40 AM	#22
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	Wow. I really spent a lot of time at the Robinson Armament booth at the Shot Show this year. I wanted to order a Recon Carbine for myself. After the personal insults from Alex, I won't give him a dime of my money. __________________ Favor the X. Steve Smith NRA Life Member

June 12, 2002, 08:09 AM	#23
Hemicuda Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,757	The order was ready to go in on my new M96... until I read the insults from Alex Robinson... what an ass he made of himself... I'll just have to save my money and pick up that match Garand I have always wanted... Sorry, Mr. Robinson... your attitude turned me off... ! __________________ Hemi. gun and car collector. Rare cars, and rarer guns.

June 12, 2002, 08:34 AM	#24
Alex Robinson Junior Member Join Date: February 16, 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 5	I can tell I'm not in good company on this forum. But lets see any of your match this: I'm the only american manufacturer who has come up with a decent new rifle in the past 30 years. Yes there were there was the hollaway and some neat bushmaster bull pups. However, I have outlasted them and will be taking more and more of the .223 market. Yes, we've had some problems. The M16 went through many many revisions and still doesn't work. It hasn't taken us 30 years to find and fix all our problems. We did it in 3 years. The current M96 can take on any competitor. We've even designed guns for the military but I cannot say more. I will be able to soon. I guess that interview I did ruffled some feathers. The truth is hard.

June 12, 2002, 08:41 AM	#25
fix Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2001 Posts: 919	Alex, I think you should have done a little research on George and The Firing Line before you decided to start flinging the insults. The Firing Line is not some tiny little BBS frequented by members of bubba's local gun club. It is a HUGE online community populated by an enormous number of your potential customers. You have probably sealed your fate should you let this slip away without an apology. George may very well owe you an apology, but at this point, that's debatable. You definately owe him one.