The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights > Legal and Political

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 21, 2002, 05:15 AM   #1
Deadman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2000
Location: Sydney
Posts: 538
United Nations illegally imported and issued paramilitary 'assault' rifles

http://www.washingtontimes.com/world...1-14729320.htm
Deadman is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 08:29 AM   #2
Derek Zeanah
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2000
Location: South GA
Posts: 267
Wouldn't you like it if newspapers could get their facts straight? I thought an MP5 was a sub-machine gun, not an assault rifle.
__________________
-- Derek

"An elective despotism was not the government we fought for."
--Thomas Jefferson
Derek Zeanah is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 09:45 AM   #3
Hawkman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2000
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 445
Who cares what they call it? I want Kofi Annan and his goons disarmed NOW. He has to learn to live by his words, not just spout them off for the "little people.
Hawkman is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 09:47 AM   #4
Kharn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,531
Another hypocrit gets a dose of his own medicine. I wonder if they are going to go to the federal pen for 10 years like us "normal people" would do if we smuggled in an Mp5?

Kharn
Kharn is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 10:01 AM   #5
SW9M
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2001
Location: Free Plains of Texas
Posts: 446
I say the BATF hunt them down and burn-em out.

Well, that's what they would do to one of us!:barf:
__________________
Tyrants prefer: an unarmed and gagged peasant.

Malo mori quam foedari. Malon Labe.
SW9M is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 10:06 AM   #6
SW9M
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2001
Location: Free Plains of Texas
Posts: 446
P.S.

Kofi Annan must have been scared of us evil gun owners!!

PHP Code:
AhMrAnnancould I interest you in a tour of my hog facility
I need your assistance in increasing the gross weight of my stock
Damn, did I say that out loud?
__________________
Tyrants prefer: an unarmed and gagged peasant.

Malo mori quam foedari. Malon Labe.
SW9M is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 10:14 AM   #7
TEXAS LAWMAN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 1999
Posts: 304
Send Janet Reno and group

ntxt
TEXAS LAWMAN is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 10:24 AM   #8
KSFreeman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2001
Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America
Posts: 5,418
When did the lowly HK54 get elevated to rifle status??? I'm with dz on this one.

As the UN, typical socialist hypocrisy, see, e.g. Ted Kennedy, Bill Clinton, Rosie, et al.
KSFreeman is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 10:32 AM   #9
USGuns
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 8, 2001
Location: Washington state, USA
Posts: 321
In defense of the Time, the article says:

' The MP5, described by its German manufacturer Heckler and Koch GmbH as a "paramilitary assault rifle" '
The manufacturer originally described it that way, not the paper.

Annan is just like all those other UN power-grabbers - only interested in disarming the populace to secure more power.
You certainly wouldn't see an article like this in the Washington Post! :barf:
__________________
"We should be exporting freedom, not importing people."
USGuns
USGuns is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 10:42 AM   #10
dZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 1999
Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC
Posts: 7,548
Assault rifles for Annan guards investigated
Stewart Stogel
SPECIAL TO THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Published 2/21/2002


------------------------------------------------------------------------

     NEW YORK — The U.S. government is investigating whether the United Nations illegally imported and issued paramilitary assault rifles to Secretary-General Kofi Annan's security detail.
     Sources in the U.N. Security and Safety Service say that the members of Mr. Annan's personal protective detail have been using the German-made MP5 submachine guns since 1998, despite an apparent failure to obtain U.S. clearance for their use.
     U.N. officials say that the use of the highly restricted firearm has been cleared with U.S. authorities.
     But Mike Campbell, a spokesman for the Treasury Department's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, confirmed in an interview that an inquiry into the U.N. personnel's use of the weapon was initiated two weeks ago.
     The dispute is made even more sensitive by the fact that Mr. Annan himself led a U.N. effort last summer to stem the production and sale of small arms around the world, an effort that drew criticism from U.S. gun-ownership groups and from the Bush administration.
     "There is no single tool of conflict so widespread, so easily available and so difficult to restrict as small arms," Mr. Annan told a special meeting of the Security Council in July.
     The MP5, described by its German manufacturer Heckler and Koch GmbH as a "paramilitary assault rifle" commonly used by police SWAT squads, is just one of several varieties of assault weapons currently in the possession of the United Nations, said one U.N. official who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
     America's use of the MP5 is normally limited to law-enforcement organizations, Mr. Campbell said. Importation of the submachine gun is tightly controlled, he said.
     The United States does not consider the U.N. security service a law-enforcement organization and thus deems it ineligible to possess weapons such as the MP5, according to a State Department official.
     "If the United Nations had applied for permission to obtain these guns, most likely it would have been rejected" again, said the official, who requested anonymity.
     The State Department official said the United Nations first approached the U.S. government for permission to purchase the MP5 in early 1998 and was refused. Just how Mr. Annan's security detail obtained the weapons is the focus of the U.S. government probe.
     Michael McCann, who has directed U.N. security operations since 1994, refused to comment on the issue, but U.N. spokesman Fred Eckhard denied any wrongdoing.
     Mr. Eckhard said he had checked with the security service and was told that all the necessary licenses for the weapons carried by U.N. personnel had been obtained.
     "I flatly reject the notion any laws have been broken," he said.
     An American citizen and a veteran of the New York Police Department, Mr. McCann has been a frequent target of criticism by both U.N. diplomats and staff over security at the New York site.
     On September 11, it took hours to evacuate the U.N. headquarters after the plane attacks on the World Trade Center; employees at the Twin Towers were evacuated in 45 minutes.
     Several staffers described the evacuation process as "mass confusion."
     Umberto Ravalico, Mr. McCann's predecessor, rejected the use of the MP5 guns. U.N. sources said that Mr. Ravalico felt they were "too dangerous" for use within New York City.
     Although the United States cannot control the use of such weapons inside the U.N. compound, U.S. laws do apply if the weapons are carried outside.
     Documents obtained by The Washington Times indicate that U.N. submachine guns frequently leave U.N. headquarters, accompanying Mr. Annan on trips around the New York area and for use in target-practice sessions for U.N. officers at a shooting range on Long Island.
     A U.N. document on training standards for security officers appears to note the sensitivity of taking the MP5 outside the U.N. headquarters building.
     For the twice-yearly proficiency tests required for security officers, the officers and the weapons are transported to the range in a vehicle provided by the U.N. security service.
     If officers travel to the range on their own, they cannot bring their firearm with them.
     "Under no circumstances should a United Nations weapon be transported in a private vehicle," according to a U.N. instruction sheet titled "Qualification on the Service MP5." The passage is highlighted in bold-face type.
     Conventions on diplomatic immunity do not apply to weapons possession. A survey of the United Nations' five permanent Security Council members — the United States, Britain, France, China and Russia — found that only U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte was assigned an armed protective detail.
     He has only a small security detachment with standard sidearms, according to a State Department spokesman.
     There has never been an assault on a U.N. secretary-general in the United States. While in the United States, Mr. Annan is protected by U.N. security, the New York police force and by the State Department's Diplomatic Security Service, depending on the circumstances.
     An official at the Diplomatic Security Service said the U.S. government has no way to track the movement of U.N.-issued weapons.
      "It is a matter between the U.N. and local jurisdictions," he said.
     The official also acknowledged there was no way the Diplomatic Security Service could independently verify that the United Nations was in compliance with local laws whenever the weapons left the compound. That is in marked contrast to the rules governing foreign embassies, which are under tight restrictions on the ownership and transportation of any firearms.
     Currently, the United Nations has more than 20 officers in the MP5 qualification program. The majority of participants are foreign nationals, which has raised additional concerns at the State Department and ATF.
__________________
"O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes."
BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters
dZ is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 11:05 AM   #11
MuzzleBlast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2001
Location: Arkansas. Much better place since Bill and Hillary went home.
Posts: 1,041
I've written my senators and congressman. Yes, I know it is like wetting your pants in a dark suit, but it makes me feel better.
__________________

Molwn labe!
MuzzleBlast is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 12:52 PM   #12
Master Blaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 1999
Location: One of the original 13 Colonies
Posts: 2,281
They need to be arrested and Jailed, under NYC law just like anyone else. The Police will protect them let them call 911.

Of course we all now that the SocialistNazis only want arms kept from the little people.
Master Blaster is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 05:06 PM   #13
alan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,847
Anyone want to make book on the liklehood of F TROOP acting against this our governments gun control laws?
alan is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 05:45 PM   #14
Justin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 1,641
Quote:
Just how Mr. Annan's security detail obtained the weapons is the focus of the U.S. government probe.
Oh, come on now, don't we all know the truth?
They obviously bought those weapons by utilizing the gunshow loophole.
After all, we all know that's the only way criminals get guns.
Justin is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 06:38 PM   #15
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,389
The article says that HK itself described the MP-5 as a paramilitary assault rifle, which would be really curious.

Later in the article the gun is referred to as a submachine gun.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 09:28 PM   #16
Vladimir_Berkov
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 1, 2001
Posts: 378
I seriously doubt that an HK rep gave them that quote. Even if you count on a mistranslation from German to English, you would get "machine pistol" not "assault rifle."

Either that or they called after hours and asked whichever janitor picked up the phone.
Vladimir_Berkov is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 09:36 PM   #17
Jamie Young
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2000
Location: SE/PA
Posts: 4,834
Quote:
The dispute is made even more sensitive by the fact that Mr. Annan himself led a U.N. effort last summer to stem the production and sale of small arms around the world, an effort that drew criticism from U.S. gun-ownership groups and from the Bush administration.
THANK GOD ASHCROFT AND HIS HENCHMEN ARE IN THERE
__________________
Find out about Gun Shows and Training activities.
www.TheRallyPoint.org
Get your gun club involved!!
Jamie Young is offline  
Old February 21, 2002, 11:56 PM   #18
Azrael256
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2001
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 547
Yeah.... If the air force folks didn't wear blue berets sometimes, they'd be much easier to distinguish at 500 yards through a scope... We need to change the air force uniform so they don't look so much alike through a scope.
Azrael256 is offline  
Old February 22, 2002, 12:24 AM   #19
Jay Baker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2000
Location: S.W. Idaho
Posts: 1,294
You people just don't get it. Koffee Kan Onan, is your KING! He can do no wrong. Bow down you filthy serfs and slaves, your King is passing!

J.B.
Jay Baker is offline  
Old February 22, 2002, 01:32 AM   #20
AnotherPundit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 7, 2001
Posts: 487
Wait, so does this mean the BATF is going to incinerate the U.N. building? cool! Two birds, one stone!
__________________
-----------------------
www.AnotherPundit.com
AnotherPundit is offline  
Old February 22, 2002, 11:26 AM   #21
dZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 1999
Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC
Posts: 7,548
Gun rights groups rip U.N. chief's 'hypocrisy'
Steve Miller
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Published 2/22/2002


------------------------------------------------------------------------

     Gun-rights groups yesterday criticized the United Nations after revelations that security officers for U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan may be illegally carrying automatic weapons.
     The "draconian" gun-control measures advocated by the United Nations apparently are not applicable to Mr. Annan, said Andrew Arulanandam, a spokesman for the National Rifle Association.
     "It's the height of hypocrisy," said John Velleco, a spokesman for the Gun Owners of America. "The U.N. wants to regulate small arms worldwide, but apparently, that doesn't apply to them."
     U.N. spokesman Fred Eckhard said that all weapons carried by Mr. Annan's detail are properly licensed and registered.
     "What weapons our security people purchase for use, as a matter of policy, any weapons we purchase, we purchase legally," he said.
     The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms confirmed this week that Mr. Annan's security detail is being investigated for carrying German-made MP5 machine guns.
     The U.N. security service isn't considered a law-enforcement organization and is not allowed to carry weapons such as the MP5, a State Department official said this week.
     But U.N. security officers have been doing so since 1998, according to sources with the U.N. Security and Safety Service.
     Mr. Annan, who is from Ghana, is a longtime vocal opponent of small arms.
     Last year, he led an international conference against the manufacture and sale of such weapons, which included submachine guns. Among the restrictions he supported were tighter export controls.
     "He now finds himself at legal odds with them," said Mr. Arulanandam. "If the law has been broken, let them pay the price. It's a fairly straightforward issue."
      Matt Bennett, a spokesman for Americans for Gun Safety, said, "If these guns were improperly imported, we would certainly urge the U.N. to investigate and rectify this."
     Mr. Eckhard declined to discuss details of the weapons he said have been cleared.
     "I would never admit to you that we have Colt 45s or MP5s. That's a classified matter," he said.
     Machine guns have been banned in the United States since 1986.
     Kristen Rand, legislative director for the Violence Policy Center, said U.N. security is "flouting" the ban, sending a "terrible message to the average citizen."
     She noted that the issue aligns her group, an anti-gun organization, with pro-gun lobbies.
     "The other side is always saying, 'Let's enforce the laws that are on the books,' and in this case, that's what needs to be done. Whether it's [National Rifle Association President] Charlton Heston or Kofi Annan, or whoever, there are laws."
     
     * Betsy Pisik contributed to this article from New York.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...2-74555556.htm
__________________
"O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes."
BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters
dZ is offline  
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.10419 seconds with 7 queries