Well, it's official, I'M A GUN NUT! 'Cuz my local paper says so!

Jim March · March 18, 2002, 04:49 PM

From:

http://www.trivalleyherald.com/Stori...468915,00.html

Sunday, March 17, 2002 - 3:47:49 AM MST

Sheriff says 'gun nut' concealing the truth

Being in the Posse doesn't guarantee weapons permit

By Dwight King-Leatham
STAFF WRITER

Jim March is a self-described "gun nut," frustrated because the Contra Costa County Sheriff's office won't give him a concealed-weapons permit.

The towering redhead from Pittsburg has taken his beef with the sheriff over the permit to federal court, saying county Sheriff Warren Rupf and a few police chiefs in 2000 violated his constitutional rights.

Last September a federal judge ruled March had no case.

Last month, March stood before the county Board of Supervisors, unloading some of his frustration. He said he believes that membership in the Contra Costa Sheriff's Posse pretty much guarantees someone getting a concealed weapons permit.

For those not in the Posse, however, a permit is harder to come by, he said.

"He's one of those people who once he grabs onto a fact, he builds a fantasy around that," said Sheriff Warren Rupf. The longtime sheriff who is head of the auxiliary group, the Posse, said fewer than half the 380 Posse members hold concealed weapon permits.

In preparation for court, March said he researched county elections records and looked at who had made campaign contributions to the sheriff. He also looked into the sheriff's practice of issuing concealed weapons permits.

March concluded membership in the Posse seemed practically to guarantee getting a permit, he said.

"The real problem is the law," said David Beauvais, a Berkeley lawyer who brought March's unsuccessful suit. "All the unfettered discretion is with the sheriff to issue or not issue a permit," he said.

Beauvais said he believes the permits are granted without applying any standard. "They're issued for (Rupf's) supporters, his boosters or to wealthy and connected people," Beauvais said.

"There's enough there to be concerned how even the process is," he said.

The lawyer said his own politics "are not centered around ever having a gun. I am sympathetic, however, with people who see this system working in a way that is not really appropriate."

"The harm is really driven by patronage, where people who have connections can get a permit, while others can't.

"If you live in a nice area with a lot of money, and occasionally travel to Richmond, you can get a permit. But if you live in Richmond, forget it," he said.

Federal District Judge William Alsup threw March's claim out before it got to trial, noting that March had also been denied permits by the cities of Richmond and Pittsburg.

The judge called March's research "opinionated" and "not appropriate for consideration."

"Nor do these records demonstrate on their face a causal connection between wealth, employment status or donations to Sheriff Rupf's campaign and issuance of a concealed weapons license."

The way Rupf's office handles concealed-weapons permits is not that unusual in the state, said state Department of Justice spokesman Michael Van Winkel.

He said attorneys with the California Department of Justice have described the power the law gives sheriffs and police chiefs as "unfettered discretion."

Still, applicants must first pass a background check -- the same one used on anyone wanting to buy a gun, and then must still win the approval of the police chief or sheriff with the permitting power, Van Winkel said.

Van Winkel said he knows nothing about the Contra Costa Sheriff's Posse.

"Without saying it hinges on joining a particular group, there's total discretion after passing the background check -- it's totally up to them," Van Winkel said.

That freedom accounts for some of the variation in permit numbers, he said.

For instance, San Francisco issues five to 15 permits a year, while "in Kern County -- little Nashville -- the law enforcement heads, the sheriff or police chief, grant about 4,000 a year. Shasta County issues 3,000 in any given year.

"I think Los Angeles County with all its millions only approves 1,000 a year," he said.

Van Winkel provided a list of concealed weapons permits issued county-by-county that showed Contra Costa County's permits dropped from a total of 314 in 1987 to 163 in 1999, the last year complete records are available.

During the same period, Alameda County's permit totals dropped from 158 to 143; Kern County's, from 3,943 to 2,961; San Diego's, from 2,042 to 1,268; and rural Shasta County's from 2,958 to 2,377.

Five years ago the former police chief of Isleton was typically issuing about 1,000 permits a year to residents from all over Sacramento County -- at a charge of $150 apiece. That brought in about $150,000 -- "that's $150,000 -- the whole city budget was about $300,000," Van Winkel said.

The Legislature soon thereafter amended the law to limit the fee to the reasonable cost of administering the program, he said.

Meanwhile, Contra Costa County currently has a total of 179 concealed- weapons permits outstanding, said Contra Costa County Sheriff's Lt. Dale Varady.

Varady, who heads the professional standards unit and administers the permits program, said his office takes applications only from those living in contract cities like Danville and San Ramon along with those in unincorporated parts of the county.

He said applicants must pass a background check, which can include a psychological review and are tested on gun handling and gun safety.

About 80 permit-holders are reserve officers, working as reinforcements doing certain types of police work, he said. Other permit-holders include judges or former law enforcement officers -- for whom the usual $265 fee is waived.

"There's no profit in it, it's all to cover the administrative process," Varady said.

Varady said he knows little about the Sheriff's Posse. "It's a private organization, much like the Elks or Lions, and is separate from the office of sheriff. I believe Sheriff Rupf is the president."

"I don't know what their makeup is, I don't go to their functions. Membership in the Posse isn't considered in applying," Varady said.

-------------------------------------------

Jim again:

Hilarious sidenote: Rupf is adamant about "less than half the Posse having CCW". We also learn there's 380 Posse members, and 163 CCW permits as of '99.

Do the math

. Rupf might as well have admitted what's up.

What caused all this freakout was paper copies of this at my local board of supes meeting:

https://www.keepandbeararms.com/march/posse.asp

Jason Demond · March 18, 2002, 05:49 PM

Quote:

"He's one of those people who once he grabs onto a fact, he builds a fantasy around that," said Sheriff Warren Rupf.

That seems like a slandering statement and a personal attack.

Jim, I wish you the best in your fight for a CCW.

John/az2 · March 18, 2002, 06:03 PM

Jim,

I hope you have him by the short hairs, soon!

SW9M · March 18, 2002, 06:28 PM

Good luck Jim.

I still think we need a class action suit for having to have a CCW. I have one and call it my "rights taxation permit."

Dave R · March 18, 2002, 06:36 PM

FWIW, here's my translation of the Judge's comments:

The judge called March's research "opinionated" and "not appropriate for consideration."

"Nor do these records demonstrate on their face a causal connection between wealth, employment status or donations to Sheriff Rupf's campaign and issuance of a concealed weapons license."

Translation: He might have something here, but I have the power to kill it here, so I will. No one else gets to render a judgement on it.

The way Rupf's office handles concealed-weapons permits is not that unusual in the state, said state Department of Justice spokesman Michael Van Winkel.

Translation: Everyone does it that way here, so we got too, also.

USP45 · March 18, 2002, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Five years ago the former police chief of Isleton was typically issuing about 1,000 permits a year to residents from all over Sacramento County -- at a charge of $150 apiece. That brought in about $150,000 -- "that's $150,000 -- the whole city budget was about $300,000," Van Winkel said.

Nothing like taking a little advantage, huh?

Don Gwinn · March 18, 2002, 08:37 PM

So, either Jim really is a complete idiot with a rich fantasy life . . . . or he's touched a nerve here.

bruels · March 18, 2002, 09:36 PM

So, by the sheriff's reasoning, if you were to examine any homogenous, identifiable group or community in Contra Costa County, one would find that slightly less than half have concealed weapons permits. How large was Contra Costa county's population did you say?

That is if Sheriff Rupf is being fair and impartial.

adept · March 18, 2002, 10:50 PM

Jim, keep up the good work, sounds like you have them nervous.

Adept

SIGarmed · March 18, 2002, 11:19 PM

LOL I hope you didn't expect them to say nice things about you.
Keep up the good work.

Thairlar · March 18, 2002, 11:19 PM

Good work, Jim! When they start to attack you instead of ignoring you, you know you've become a threat to them. Keep up the good fight.

Jim March · March 19, 2002, 02:13 AM

What happened in court was that without a minority co-plaintiff, I couldn't raise the serious racial issues otherwise obvious with Rupf's policies. That meant the issue was to be decided on a "rational basis" standard of court scrutiny versus "strict scrutiny" - and the Judge didn't think we could win on "rational basis".

I think he was wrong, but whatever. We'll try again at some point, with a minority or three

.

To fully understand this issue, see also:

https://www.keepandbeararms.com/info...em.asp?id=3202

BUT the whole thing may not even get to court, if we can drag Ashcroft in

. We're not ready for that step yet, we need just a few more exposes first, but getting Ashcroft's attention will happen soon.

TheBluesMan · March 20, 2002, 11:17 PM

Good luck getting Ashcroft involved. If the members of TFL can help out, just let us know.

Keep up the good work, Jim!

Jim March · March 21, 2002, 12:44 AM

We're not ready for that step yet. Wait for it though, it'll happen soon and you bet it'll be all over TFL

.

Update: the paper is being flooded with letters to the editor, virtually all of 'em in support of me

. I'm being told they'll be published, apparantly in next Sunday's edition. Should be fun.

Bartholomew Roberts · March 21, 2002, 09:46 AM

Hey Jim, please let us know when the letters run. That should be fun reading as well.

Hutch · March 21, 2002, 10:34 AM

Can't remember who said it here first, but I think it's applicable:

"If you're taking flak, you must be over the target!"

G'luck. If we can help, let us know how.

Jim March · May 5, 2002, 06:39 AM

My various documents are being moved to new locations on my own website - the first round of edits are done. See also:

http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw - the Posse report is under the "Expose Project" link.

Mike Weber · May 5, 2002, 07:10 AM

Good Work Jim:
I hope that you win on appeal. these arbitrary refusals of our rights have got to come to an end. Also those licensing fees seem outrageously high. Call it a tax on a constitutional right. I've seen fees in my state rise from $3.50 back when my Dad had one to $35.00 and they doubled from that a couple of years ago. Always with the passage of new gun control regulations. We don't have as much of a problem with the refusals though. If you pass the background check you get the permit.

Powderman · May 5, 2002, 01:31 PM

Thankfully, Washington is a shall issue state.

Give them hell, Jim.

Standing Wolf · May 5, 2002, 07:09 PM

The lack of a shall issue law is one of the main reasons I'm leaving the People's Republic of California this year to return to the United States.

Powderman · May 5, 2002, 07:34 PM

Well, come on up, about 300 miles past your northern border.

All shooters welcome, 60 dollars, about a week for NCIC due to the backlog, and you too shall have the CCW.

The only downside is that Washington is NOT a Class III State. Ownership of full-auto is downright illegal.

But, move on up and welcome!!

LonWilson · May 5, 2002, 09:03 PM

Standing Wolf,

Do your former state a favor and vote for Bill Simon before you go. As the Presidential elections showed us, a vote CAN make a different.

Futo Inu · May 7, 2002, 03:21 PM

"We also learn there's 380 Posse members, and 163 CCW permits as of '99."

And of the remaining 217, I would bet you could count on one hand the number of those who applied for a permit. The relevant number is how many posse members among those who have applied, have received them. Sure as heck ain't gonna get one if you don't apply.

Great job, Jim.

Jim March · May 7, 2002, 08:04 PM

It gets better.

The "Posse" is top-heavy with people in real estate sales and major development. Both of the major real estate investors in the county are Posse and Permitholders:

* Ken Behring built the upscale town of Blackhawk, among the most posh addresses in Northern California. Not only a gated privately secured area on county land, one which requires interaction with a guard to even enter, it also has extra Sheriff's department patrols. Behring used to own the Seattle Seahawks NFL team. He still owns the Behring Auto Museum in Danville, one of the finest collections of cars in the world. Dude is worth billions. His attorney back when he was building Blackhawk was Dan Van Voorhis, now a Judge. Thomas Van Voorhis, his brother, scored CCW after writing a letter to Sheriff Rupf outlining his various connections, including personal friendships with a then-current state Senator, another Judge, a former Congressman, etc.

* The Seeno family are the biggest home-builders in Contra Costa County, and own the Peppermill chain of restraunts and the Peppermill casino in Reno. Seeno Jr. has a permit now, his pop did before his death. I keep getting weird rumors about this bunch.

Anyways. There was a scandal a few years back in Sacramento County under the previous Sheriff (Craig) that's rumored to be the real reason he retired. The scam involved selling signatures on environmental impact reports for construction projects. The EIRs include a traffic analysis and crime impact analysis, both of which get signed off on by the Sheriff...Craig was supposedly selling easy access to those sign-offs.

Hmmm. And the Contra Costa Posse is full of...real estate developers. Not a HUGE amount, but way more than you'd expect at random.

The Posse also has a lot of ranchers. Who frequently deal with crime problems, and might be looking to get extra patrol services? I found one rancher in the campaign contribution logs who gave $250 to Rupf, on the same day that his wife, several kids and multiple employees did too. Obviously, this rancher was getting around the $250-per-person-max campaign finance rule. He was NOT a permitholder, and never got one, but for some reason he was risking an obvious stretch of the rules to shovel money in Rupf's direction. Why? Damned if I know.

I know of at least one gun dealer who joined the Posse so he could sell guns to the biggest gun buyer in the county: Sheriff Rupf. The dealer TOLD me that. And that dude didn't get a permit, because somebody who'd been Posse for much longer didn't like him and told Rupf not to issue to him.

Real estate agents need to do evictions fairly often. How? They go to the Sheriff's office. Would a Posse member real estate agent get a deputy faster? Dunno. But there's sure a hell of a lot of 'em with permits, which we now know pretty much means Posse.

What I'm saying here is that there's a LOT of reasons beyond CCW that would cause somebody to want to "snuggle up close" to the Sheriff. What we may be seeing is people who've gotten clo$e to him also getting easy access to a permit while they were at it, even though that wasn't their prime goal all along. Others may not care at all about CCW, they're in it for whatever financial game they've got going.

It's crazy. CCW abuse is probably just the tip of a very large iceberg of corruption.

labgrade · May 7, 2002, 10:49 PM

Old saying down south - one term as Sheriff & you're set for life.

March 18, 2002, 04:49 PM	#1
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Well, it's official, I'M A GUN NUT! 'Cuz my local paper says so! From: http://www.trivalleyherald.com/Stori...468915,00.html Sunday, March 17, 2002 - 3:47:49 AM MST Sheriff says 'gun nut' concealing the truth Being in the Posse doesn't guarantee weapons permit By Dwight King-Leatham STAFF WRITER Jim March is a self-described "gun nut," frustrated because the Contra Costa County Sheriff's office won't give him a concealed-weapons permit. The towering redhead from Pittsburg has taken his beef with the sheriff over the permit to federal court, saying county Sheriff Warren Rupf and a few police chiefs in 2000 violated his constitutional rights. Last September a federal judge ruled March had no case. Last month, March stood before the county Board of Supervisors, unloading some of his frustration. He said he believes that membership in the Contra Costa Sheriff's Posse pretty much guarantees someone getting a concealed weapons permit. For those not in the Posse, however, a permit is harder to come by, he said. "He's one of those people who once he grabs onto a fact, he builds a fantasy around that," said Sheriff Warren Rupf. The longtime sheriff who is head of the auxiliary group, the Posse, said fewer than half the 380 Posse members hold concealed weapon permits. In preparation for court, March said he researched county elections records and looked at who had made campaign contributions to the sheriff. He also looked into the sheriff's practice of issuing concealed weapons permits. March concluded membership in the Posse seemed practically to guarantee getting a permit, he said. "The real problem is the law," said David Beauvais, a Berkeley lawyer who brought March's unsuccessful suit. "All the unfettered discretion is with the sheriff to issue or not issue a permit," he said. Beauvais said he believes the permits are granted without applying any standard. "They're issued for (Rupf's) supporters, his boosters or to wealthy and connected people," Beauvais said. "There's enough there to be concerned how even the process is," he said. The lawyer said his own politics "are not centered around ever having a gun. I am sympathetic, however, with people who see this system working in a way that is not really appropriate." "The harm is really driven by patronage, where people who have connections can get a permit, while others can't. "If you live in a nice area with a lot of money, and occasionally travel to Richmond, you can get a permit. But if you live in Richmond, forget it," he said. Federal District Judge William Alsup threw March's claim out before it got to trial, noting that March had also been denied permits by the cities of Richmond and Pittsburg. The judge called March's research "opinionated" and "not appropriate for consideration." "Nor do these records demonstrate on their face a causal connection between wealth, employment status or donations to Sheriff Rupf's campaign and issuance of a concealed weapons license." The way Rupf's office handles concealed-weapons permits is not that unusual in the state, said state Department of Justice spokesman Michael Van Winkel. He said attorneys with the California Department of Justice have described the power the law gives sheriffs and police chiefs as "unfettered discretion." Still, applicants must first pass a background check -- the same one used on anyone wanting to buy a gun, and then must still win the approval of the police chief or sheriff with the permitting power, Van Winkel said. Van Winkel said he knows nothing about the Contra Costa Sheriff's Posse. "Without saying it hinges on joining a particular group, there's total discretion after passing the background check -- it's totally up to them," Van Winkel said. That freedom accounts for some of the variation in permit numbers, he said. For instance, San Francisco issues five to 15 permits a year, while "in Kern County -- little Nashville -- the law enforcement heads, the sheriff or police chief, grant about 4,000 a year. Shasta County issues 3,000 in any given year. "I think Los Angeles County with all its millions only approves 1,000 a year," he said. Van Winkel provided a list of concealed weapons permits issued county-by-county that showed Contra Costa County's permits dropped from a total of 314 in 1987 to 163 in 1999, the last year complete records are available. During the same period, Alameda County's permit totals dropped from 158 to 143; Kern County's, from 3,943 to 2,961; San Diego's, from 2,042 to 1,268; and rural Shasta County's from 2,958 to 2,377. Five years ago the former police chief of Isleton was typically issuing about 1,000 permits a year to residents from all over Sacramento County -- at a charge of $150 apiece. That brought in about $150,000 -- "that's $150,000 -- the whole city budget was about $300,000," Van Winkel said. The Legislature soon thereafter amended the law to limit the fee to the reasonable cost of administering the program, he said. Meanwhile, Contra Costa County currently has a total of 179 concealed- weapons permits outstanding, said Contra Costa County Sheriff's Lt. Dale Varady. Varady, who heads the professional standards unit and administers the permits program, said his office takes applications only from those living in contract cities like Danville and San Ramon along with those in unincorporated parts of the county. He said applicants must pass a background check, which can include a psychological review and are tested on gun handling and gun safety. About 80 permit-holders are reserve officers, working as reinforcements doing certain types of police work, he said. Other permit-holders include judges or former law enforcement officers -- for whom the usual $265 fee is waived. "There's no profit in it, it's all to cover the administrative process," Varady said. Varady said he knows little about the Sheriff's Posse. "It's a private organization, much like the Elks or Lions, and is separate from the office of sheriff. I believe Sheriff Rupf is the president." "I don't know what their makeup is, I don't go to their functions. Membership in the Posse isn't considered in applying," Varady said. ------------------------------------------- Jim again: Hilarious sidenote: Rupf is adamant about "less than half the Posse having CCW". We also learn there's 380 Posse members, and 163 CCW permits as of '99. Do the math . Rupf might as well have admitted what's up. What caused all this freakout was paper copies of this at my local board of supes meeting: https://www.keepandbeararms.com/march/posse.asp __________________ Jim March

March 18, 2002, 06:03 PM	#3
John/az2 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 1999 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,729	Jim, I hope you have him by the short hairs, soon! __________________ John/az Six Blind Sheep \| The Publishing Site \| Online Product Reviews

March 18, 2002, 06:28 PM	#4
SW9M Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2001 Location: Free Plains of Texas Posts: 446	Good luck Jim. I still think we need a class action suit for having to have a CCW. I have one and call it my "rights taxation permit." __________________ Tyrants prefer: an unarmed and gagged peasant. Malo mori quam foedari. Malon Labe.

March 18, 2002, 06:36 PM	#5
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	FWIW, here's my translation of the Judge's comments: The judge called March's research "opinionated" and "not appropriate for consideration." "Nor do these records demonstrate on their face a causal connection between wealth, employment status or donations to Sheriff Rupf's campaign and issuance of a concealed weapons license." Translation: He might have something here, but I have the power to kill it here, so I will. No one else gets to render a judgement on it. The way Rupf's office handles concealed-weapons permits is not that unusual in the state, said state Department of Justice spokesman Michael Van Winkel. Translation: Everyone does it that way here, so we got too, also. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

March 18, 2002, 08:37 PM	#7
Don Gwinn Staff Emeritus Join Date: March 9, 2000 Location: Virden, IL Posts: 5,917	So, either Jim really is a complete idiot with a rich fantasy life . . . . or he's touched a nerve here. __________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don Gwinn: Chicago Gun Rights Examiner

March 18, 2002, 09:36 PM	#8
bruels Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1998 Location: Hayden, ID, USA Posts: 1,102	So, by the sheriff's reasoning, if you were to examine any homogenous, identifiable group or community in Contra Costa County, one would find that slightly less than half have concealed weapons permits. How large was Contra Costa county's population did you say? That is if Sheriff Rupf is being fair and impartial.

March 18, 2002, 10:50 PM	#9
adept Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2001 Posts: 410	Jim, keep up the good work, sounds like you have them nervous. Adept

March 18, 2002, 11:19 PM	#10
SIGarmed Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 2001 Posts: 450	LOL I hope you didn't expect them to say nice things about you. Keep up the good work.

March 18, 2002, 11:19 PM	#11
Thairlar Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2001 Location: MA Posts: 565	Good work, Jim! When they start to attack you instead of ignoring you, you know you've become a threat to them. Keep up the good fight. __________________ Skip Pacheco, Libertarian for State Representative Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we can not be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference in having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands? -Patrick Henry

March 19, 2002, 02:13 AM	#12
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	What happened in court was that without a minority co-plaintiff, I couldn't raise the serious racial issues otherwise obvious with Rupf's policies. That meant the issue was to be decided on a "rational basis" standard of court scrutiny versus "strict scrutiny" - and the Judge didn't think we could win on "rational basis". I think he was wrong, but whatever. We'll try again at some point, with a minority or three . To fully understand this issue, see also: https://www.keepandbeararms.com/info...em.asp?id=3202 BUT the whole thing may not even get to court, if we can drag Ashcroft in . We're not ready for that step yet, we need just a few more exposes first, but getting Ashcroft's attention will happen soon. __________________ Jim March

March 20, 2002, 11:17 PM	#13
TheBluesMan Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 15, 1999 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,558	Good luck getting Ashcroft involved. If the members of TFL can help out, just let us know. Keep up the good work, Jim! __________________ -Dave Miller ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ! NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Personal Protection. Tick-off Obama - Join the NRA Today - Save $10

March 21, 2002, 12:44 AM	#14
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	We're not ready for that step yet. Wait for it though, it'll happen soon and you bet it'll be all over TFL . Update: the paper is being flooded with letters to the editor, virtually all of 'em in support of me . I'm being told they'll be published, apparantly in next Sunday's edition. Should be fun. __________________ Jim March

March 21, 2002, 09:46 AM	#15
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Hey Jim, please let us know when the letters run. That should be fun reading as well.

March 21, 2002, 10:34 AM	#16
Hutch Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2000 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,124	Can't remember who said it here first, but I think it's applicable: "If you're taking flak, you must be over the target!" G'luck. If we can help, let us know how. __________________ "First, the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right -- subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility" -- L. Neil Smith ' I have an [in]alienable right to bear arms. I will exercise my own judgement in their use and accept responsibilty for the consequences' - Oakleaf

May 5, 2002, 06:39 AM	#17
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	My various documents are being moved to new locations on my own website - the first round of edits are done. See also: http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw - the Posse report is under the "Expose Project" link. __________________ Jim March

May 5, 2002, 07:10 AM	#18
Mike Weber Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2002 Location: Northern California Posts: 238	Arbitrary refusals Good Work Jim: I hope that you win on appeal. these arbitrary refusals of our rights have got to come to an end. Also those licensing fees seem outrageously high. Call it a tax on a constitutional right. I've seen fees in my state rise from $3.50 back when my Dad had one to $35.00 and they doubled from that a couple of years ago. Always with the passage of new gun control regulations. We don't have as much of a problem with the refusals though. If you pass the background check you get the permit.

May 5, 2002, 01:31 PM	#19
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	Thankfully, Washington is a shall issue state. Give them hell, Jim. __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

May 5, 2002, 07:09 PM	#20
Standing Wolf Member in memoriam Join Date: April 26, 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,649	The lack of a shall issue law is one of the main reasons I'm leaving the People's Republic of California this year to return to the United States. __________________ No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

May 5, 2002, 07:34 PM	#21
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	Well, come on up, about 300 miles past your northern border. All shooters welcome, 60 dollars, about a week for NCIC due to the backlog, and you too shall have the CCW. The only downside is that Washington is NOT a Class III State. Ownership of full-auto is downright illegal. But, move on up and welcome!! __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

May 5, 2002, 09:03 PM	#22
LonWilson Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2002 Location: Aloha, Oregon Posts: 759	Standing Wolf, Do your former state a favor and vote for Bill Simon before you go. As the Presidential elections showed us, a vote CAN make a different.

May 7, 2002, 03:21 PM	#23
Futo Inu Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 1999 Location: Oklahoma City, OK, USA Posts: 3,624	"We also learn there's 380 Posse members, and 163 CCW permits as of '99." And of the remaining 217, I would bet you could count on one hand the number of those who applied for a permit. The relevant number is how many posse members among those who have applied, have received them. Sure as heck ain't gonna get one if you don't apply. Great job, Jim.

May 7, 2002, 08:04 PM	#24
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	It gets better. The "Posse" is top-heavy with people in real estate sales and major development. Both of the major real estate investors in the county are Posse and Permitholders: * Ken Behring built the upscale town of Blackhawk, among the most posh addresses in Northern California. Not only a gated privately secured area on county land, one which requires interaction with a guard to even enter, it also has extra Sheriff's department patrols. Behring used to own the Seattle Seahawks NFL team. He still owns the Behring Auto Museum in Danville, one of the finest collections of cars in the world. Dude is worth billions. His attorney back when he was building Blackhawk was Dan Van Voorhis, now a Judge. Thomas Van Voorhis, his brother, scored CCW after writing a letter to Sheriff Rupf outlining his various connections, including personal friendships with a then-current state Senator, another Judge, a former Congressman, etc. * The Seeno family are the biggest home-builders in Contra Costa County, and own the Peppermill chain of restraunts and the Peppermill casino in Reno. Seeno Jr. has a permit now, his pop did before his death. I keep getting weird rumors about this bunch. Anyways. There was a scandal a few years back in Sacramento County under the previous Sheriff (Craig) that's rumored to be the real reason he retired. The scam involved selling signatures on environmental impact reports for construction projects. The EIRs include a traffic analysis and crime impact analysis, both of which get signed off on by the Sheriff...Craig was supposedly selling easy access to those sign-offs. Hmmm. And the Contra Costa Posse is full of...real estate developers. Not a HUGE amount, but way more than you'd expect at random. The Posse also has a lot of ranchers. Who frequently deal with crime problems, and might be looking to get extra patrol services? I found one rancher in the campaign contribution logs who gave $250 to Rupf, on the same day that his wife, several kids and multiple employees did too. Obviously, this rancher was getting around the $250-per-person-max campaign finance rule. He was NOT a permitholder, and never got one, but for some reason he was risking an obvious stretch of the rules to shovel money in Rupf's direction. Why? Damned if I know. I know of at least one gun dealer who joined the Posse so he could sell guns to the biggest gun buyer in the county: Sheriff Rupf. The dealer TOLD me that. And that dude didn't get a permit, because somebody who'd been Posse for much longer didn't like him and told Rupf not to issue to him. Real estate agents need to do evictions fairly often. How? They go to the Sheriff's office. Would a Posse member real estate agent get a deputy faster? Dunno. But there's sure a hell of a lot of 'em with permits, which we now know pretty much means Posse. What I'm saying here is that there's a LOT of reasons beyond CCW that would cause somebody to want to "snuggle up close" to the Sheriff. What we may be seeing is people who've gotten clo$e to him also getting easy access to a permit while they were at it, even though that wasn't their prime goal all along. Others may not care at all about CCW, they're in it for whatever financial game they've got going. It's crazy. CCW abuse is probably just the tip of a very large iceberg of corruption. __________________ Jim March

May 7, 2002, 10:49 PM	#25
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	Old saying down south - one term as Sheriff & you're set for life.