Any thoughts on the Robarms M96?

[VaughnT]

I was just over at their site and love the look of this thing. I've never heard of it before and was wondering how many are out there. The modular design is very enticing, sorta like the 1911, and that top-feed model is potentially dangerous to the wallet.

Anybody try one yet? Do they hold up well? Strip easily? Accurate? Fun?

What's the cost on a basic model?

[MAD DOG]

The best one I have seen shoots 3 MOA under perfect conditions. The worst one I have seen is currently in our shop. It shoots 6-8 MOA under perfect conditions. 12 moa when it is feeling uppity.
This weapon has already been sent back once, Mr. Robinson himslef gave it a clean bill of health and then returned it to us shooting that badly.
We took it up with them at the SHOT show, and they just adopted a "Well, you must be terrible shots, all of our rifles are great" sort of attitude.
We explained our having sent the weapon back once, let several other shooters try it, and the rest. they only sugested that we send the weapon back so that Mr. Robinson could look at it.. AGAIN.
Right. Thanks anyway, that one is going back to the factory for a full refund, and we are doing no more business with Robinson Arms.

The weapon is also panned in the upcoming expanded edition of "Boston's Gun Bible".


Although the system is based on a fine design, they have obviously missed some of the finer points in construction methodology... or something.
Also, their corporate attitude pretty much sucks.

I can not in good conscience recommend the M96 for anyone or any purpose other than a very expensive wall hanger.

[clown714]

junk,is a nice word
POS.
clown

[Borf]

Interesting. I've also heard people rave about it. Quality control issues with a young company?

All I know is I'm not about to spend that much on a .223, no matter how good the concept is. If they released it in .308 though...

[JIH]

They're "ok."

It's basically a heavy .223 that isn't accurate. Maybe they should use that as an advertising slogan.

If you want a good .223 that uses an op-rod, get a Daewoo or an AR-180B. Theoretically, they'll never be as accurate as a AR can be, but they're better (and cheaper) than the M96.

[VaughnT]

Thanks for the input, guys. I definitely wasn't wanting to hear such negative reviews, but that's the way it goes. Looks like the Internet saved me a hunk of cash.

I'll keep them in consideration should I ever run across one at a great discount. Otherwise, it looks like I'll have to stick with my shotgun.

Again, thanks.

[Dave3006]

Gosh. It sounds like a real expensive Mini-14. More complex too.

[Kaylee]

now that is odd.. this is the first I've heard anything bad of it, excepting of course that it's heavy as a .308. Heck, SWAT had something recently calling it the best thing since sliced bread.

Are there more out now, so that more folks have first hand experience with 'em since after the initial ravings?

That said, I've only handled one, never fired it. Seemed darn well put together, and pretty will thought out.

-K

[Zak Smith]

I benched my M96 when I got it - gee, was it about 18 months ago? Here are the results, from what I can remember off the top of my head.

1. it was more accurate than my Bushmaster Dissipator
2. it was better than 1.5 MOA. The one target I saved indicates a 1MOA group for three shots.

(This was 100 meters, iron sights, from sandbags.)

If you do a search in this forum, you'll find a bunch of threads going back a couple years about the M96. Most of the reviews are positive. I certainly like mine - so much I sold off the Bushy.

-z

[Zak Smith]

An addendum:

The M96 clearly is not meant to be a precision rifle, nor a long-range varminter. It's a .223 "battle" rifle -- yeah, yeah, not the classical definition of "battle rifle" in that is does not shoot a full-power cartridge -- that is the general idea of this rifle.

If you want a precision .223 semi-auto for long-range 1MOA or better work, buy a Fulton Armory AR-15. It'll end up around the same price as the M96, but they will serve two different purposes.

-z

[VaughnT]

Danggit, I like things better when the majority disliked it. Now I'm torn!!!

Guess I'll have to wait and see..... Sure is pretty, though.

[glock glockler]

VaughnT,

I'm in the same boat as you, I'm fixin' to get a .223, and while I really want a Sig 550 I've finally accepted that I'm not going to be able to have one. That leaves the M96 and I was considering a Rock River Arms AR after all the good things I've been hearing about them. Unfortunately, the above rifles are made with 1:9 twists and I want a 1:7 twist. Putting a barrel with a 1:7 twist on the Rock River is no problem but I still cant get an M96 with one.

I'm just going to hang out for a little while and wait for things to sort themselves out, perhaps Robinson will make a 1:7 barrel for freaks like me and work out any bugs in their system.

Dammit, I still want a Sig 550.

[Ghengis]

I'll add my vote to the against column. I'll admit I haven't shot one but I did handle one and unless you just have to have something different, I was not impressed. I thought it was too heavy, too expensive, didn't balance well and doesn't have the availability of accessories to support it. In other words, it won't do anything better than a quality AR-15 will do but will cost more, weigh more and be less ergonomic and supportable, to me anyway.

[Zak Smith]

Let's not revisit this in this thread, but one reason people have cited against the AR-15 is the gas system which "[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]s where it eats", so to speak. If you search back to 2000, there are numerous threads listing the various perceived drawbacks of the AR-15 system. Whether not you care about any of these things is up to you.

Here are some of those threads, and some others comparing the M96 to other rifles:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...threadid=14817
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...threadid=16053
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...threadid=49142
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...threadid=16074
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...threadid=58318
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...threadid=83681
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...threadid=58318
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...threadid=98050

There's lots of information out archived here, if you just search for it.

Things I like about the M96 over the AR-15:

1. the receiver and bolt stay clean because no gas is vented into it.

2. much, much easier to take-down for cleaning. since the receiver & bolt don't get dirty, you can just pop the barrel off in a moment and clean it. The gas piston comes off almost just as easily.

3. I can stick a carbine barrel on it without switching the whole "upper." each barrel is "sighted in" and does not need to be re-zeroed when you exchange them.

4. it doesn't go "SPROING" when I shoot it.

5. IMO, it seems like a more "solid" rifle - more substantial. Yes, it is heavier.

6. it jams a lot less often than my AR-15 did. Besides one "catastrophic" jam-up of the gas piston after shooting a couple thousand hot S.A. rounds with no cleaning (WOOPS!), I can't remember any FTF's or FTE's, which I got a couple of every 100 rounds with my Bushy.

That said, here are a few detractors:

1. trigger pull quality is somewhat limited. You will probably not be able to get it as nice as a Jewell or JP AR-15 trigger. I heard that RobArm is working on a better design that will drop into existing rifles. As a comparison, the M96trigger is better than the triggers on my FALs and the stock trigger on my Bushmaster AR, but it was worse than a friend's Jewell trigger on his AR.

2. Since the M96 uses pins to hold the upper to the lower (as does the AR), it is possible to have some play. This does not affect the accuracy or functionality, but might annoy you. My AR had similar play.

3. The accuracy *potential* is probably limited as compared to the AR design. It is possible to build a heavy-barreled, accurized AR-15, suitable for match or varmint use (e.g. www.jpar15.com). It is probably not possible to do the same with the M96, since it has a quick-change barrel. That said, when I tested accuracy, the M96 was equal or slightly better than my Bushmaster. Best accurac gy was with Hornady 60gr TAP, which was better than Black Hills 52gr "match". These were both better than examples of M193 and M855 (aka SS-109).

4. Parts availability & price. Parts for the AR-15 are ubiquitous. There is a single source for M96 parts. Obviously could be a problem.


-z

[George Hill]

For the money, I'd rather have an HK SL8 with the USGI Mag well kit attached.

I like the M96. It is a SWEET rifle. The way it shoots feels like cream and suger compaired to the way an AR feels.
The ones I have fired have given me about 2 MOA from off hand. I benched one and was getting about 1.5 MOA.
I think Mad Dog has a serious lemon on his hand... but he is right about Robinson's attitude. Customer service is a key element and if they don't change it, they will never really grow as a company. The more business they do - the more people say "Dang, those guys are jackholes!" I hear complaints about them quiet often. Even one rumor that Mr Robinson is a paid ATF Informant. Personally, I think the guy is a prick. But a very smart prick. His rifle is very good for what it is... A rifle that is supposed to be as reliable as possible. No, it isn't that accurate... but in a firefight, I'll trade a sub MOA group for better reliability any time.

What I really like from RobArms is the VEPR II. Fantastic rifle. You can get a VEPR II chambered in .223 from them that will be every bit as reliable and just as accurate as the M96 for less than 1/2 the cash.

[Dr.Rob]

They remind me a lot of those Daewoo rifles.. only they cost a lot more.

I'll stick to my existing poodleshooter.

Rob