Dealing with pawn shops

[Bacchus]

I have a couple of questions about dealing with pawn shops. I've visited two vastly different shops in the last week.

At the first, they treated me fairly and the prices seemed reasonable on the gun accessories. I didn't get a chance to look at the prices of the firearms, but noticed that they had them conveniently grouped: military stuff, SKS/AKs, shotguns, and bolt action hunting stuff. Mostly long arms and I would estimate 150-200 total.

The second shop was much smaller. No more than about 40. The guy was "willing to make me a deal". The only price I could see was for a brand new snub Taurus 38 special, which he had listed for 325 but said he would give it to me for 300 total, including taxes. He balked when I said I was looking for a 357 and told me that a ported 38 is the same.

He mentioned that he considers Taurus' to be be like Smiths and that Rossi and Charter Arms are "very good".

Here's the questions: Are all prices negotiable at a pawn shop? Would you focus on the smaller business, since he may be able to come down more in price? When you enter a gun store, how do you separate the wheat from the chaff, i.e., draw the line between

1. just ignoring people and making the purchase
2. making the determination that the owner is unethical and go somewhere else?

[Radicalcleric]

Define "unethical." Pawn shop dealers are probably no better or worse than the bulk of other retailers. OK, maybe a little worse.

You can always make an offer. They can always refuse. If you make an offer and he accepts, you must buy the gun. I have seen, and had people do it to me, offers accepted and then the shopper decides not to buy.

Saw a .38 Diamondback being offered by a pawnbroker. On a whim I offered him $180 for it. His response was to reach for the 4473. Now, I really wasn't in the market for that gun, but once he said OK I had to buy it. Now I am glad I did. Turned out to be sweet, indeed even though at first I wasn't sure I needed another .38.

[Betty]

At pawn shops I've been to, prices are always negotiable - in fact they price their items up in expectation of being haggled down. So if you were to sell an item and they ask you what it's worth, always give a price about $50 - $100 bucks higher - especially if the pawn shop person isn't so knowledgeable on the particular item.

I only frequent one shop in particular where the owners are extremely friendly and treat me and my brother as if we are their own children. They actually show me in the books what their costs are on items, etc. Unfortunately, since they are good people, they end up getting screwed by customers because they don't know any better. Oleg has had to help them price many firearms correctly, even helping them get the make/model correct. They may run a pawn shop, but that doesn't mean they know all about everything they're selling!

As for:
1. just ignoring people and making the purchase
If I know about the particular item more, than I'll ignore. Sometimes the pawn shop will screw you over, sometimes the pawn shop actually doesn't know any better.

2. making the determination that the owner is unethical and go somewhere else?
Ethics are something you need to answer for yourself - personally, I don't deal with people I have issues with. Some pawn shops are more than happy to re-sell "hot" items that were obviouslty stolen; the one I frequent avoids taking in car stereos and other "questionable" items.

[Bacchus]

Thanks for the info. I didn't know that once a customer makes an offer on something, the expectation is that s/he will buy it if the seller accepts. Is that well-known/well-accepted?

Runt, this last shop looked like it would accept anything. I guess it's just that this area has a lot of pawn shops, so I thought that maybe they would be willling to haggle a little more than the larger shops with more turnover.

[C.R.Sam]

Runt and Pig pretty well covered it.

Just like any other type of business: some good, some bad and a lot in the middle.

Knowledge and patience are a must. Unless you are rich, then you probably don't bother with pawn shops.

Some pawn shops are great gun stores.
Some have little to offer but at least it is priced high.

Sam

[Red Label]

but once he said OK I had to buy it

What do you mean "you had to buy it". You don't have to do anything, 'cept the proverbial pay taxes and death. I deal with pawn shops all the time. I can change my mind anytime up until I hand over the cash.

I browse at pawnshops that price used things higher than new, so they seem like they're going WAY down in price when they're not. And I shop at ones that are reasonable to start with. I let my wallet vote for which one I hope stays in business. Some know their stuff, and some are clueless.

[Betty]

I've always wondered about stolen items in pawn shops - should I ever buy a used gun and find out later that it's stolen property. Anybody ever had this happen?

[Bogie]

Since there's some modest aerospace stuff here in St. Louis, you occasionally see good tools in hock shops (some guys retires, has a substance abuse problem, whatever...).

A coupla months ago I picked up a Starrett 1" tenths micrometer, a Starrett 2" tenths micrometer, a Mitutoyo 1" thous micrometer, and starret thous dial indicator.

$40 for the batch.

Sold the thous mike and the dial indicator, made $5. Sold my old cheapo mike for $10 less than I paid for it, which puts me at $5 for two Starret mikes.

[King]

I find that all Pawn shops will negotiate a better price than what they have marked. You just need to know your guns, their values and the quality of the merchandise being offered. I don't buy all that often but there are good deals to be had.

As far as stolen property being offered, I don't worry too much about that. LEO's generally work the pawn shop circuits for stolen items like guns. In Texas, you are also registering the gun (still have to do the paperwork) at the time of purchase. Worst case, you get a visit from LE that you procured a stolen firearm.

Happy shopping and good luck........

[ghillieman]

I work in a pawn shop.......... most stores are ok, there are a few that are owned by a******les, how ever if you got me down on price and then said no I dont want it , you my friend will never get a deal from me again, dont waste the time, if you are only trying to see how low I'll go I'll let you stand there for ever, this happenes a lot, how ever good custermers get good deals......................

[Jack Carson]

Now that the national chain franchises are taking over it seems the good ol' mom and pop establishments are going out of business. The franchise shops seem to always be overpriced and staffed with employees who don't know the first thing about firearms.

I've gotten some great deals over the years from privately owned pawnshops. They have all required photo ID when they buy or loan money on firearms. The BGs generally know this and sell their stolen stuff on the street.

Jack

[Red Label]

I work in a pawn shop.......... most stores are ok, there are a few that are owned by a******les, how ever if you got me down on price and then said no I dont want it , you my friend will never get a deal from me again, dont waste the time, if you are only trying to see how low I'll go I'll let you stand there for ever, this happenes a lot, how ever good custermers get good deals

ghillieman -- I've never actually done that. But it is MY RIGHT as a consumer to back away from a sale at any time until it is completed. Remember that THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT. Now we both know that is not really always true. But it had better be more or less the sales person's attitude if they want to prosper.

[9mmepiphany]

red label - of course you are right, there is no sale until you put money down...and in our litigitious soceity, maybe not even then. however...

i believe that i has to do more with ethical behavior...wasn't that in the original posting... when you make an offer (you are pledging to pay a certain amount for a product) and it is accepted (they are pledging to deliver the product for that amount), there is a contract. if you then change your mind, you have broken your pledge/promise. it depends on how much you value what other people say and how much you want your word valued.

granted, my point of view comes from a culture where men (and women) are judged by what they say and do rather then what they have...the mind of the warrior vs. the merchant.

the pawnbroker/money lender is the oldest, and most vilified (by the church, remeber usury), merchant in history. very strange when you consider that they come a culture where words are binding.

back OT:

everything in a pawn shop is negotiable, don't expect expertise (and you'll be plesantly surprised), they will sell at the highest price you will pay and most that i've dealt with were very ethical (but remember it is a business)

[Double Naught Spy]

I grew up in the business...

Prices are negotiable, to a point. Unless the merchandise has a lot of counter time and the broker wants to simply rid his store of it, he is not going to negotiate a price below his costs inclusive of direct and indirect costs. On items like guns, we often didn't have a lot of wiggle room as they were a steady item and we loaned high on them because they sold so well. By loaning high, our profit margins were much lower on guns than on most other merchandise.

The best deal in a pawn shop is when the broker does not know what he has. No doubt he will still profit if the sale is made, but that is how the game works. He has to know about a myriad of products that range from TVs to jewelry to guns, cameras, all types of tools, and then all sorts of other stuff like video games, mustical instruments, etc. Don't expect a pawn broker to be an expert on any particular type of product found in the shop, although he may know quite a bit, but that does not mean he will be an expert.

One of the best forms of negotiation I ever encountered was my favorite. As a pawn broker, the thing I hated most was to have some turkey come in and dicker on a product, arrive at a price, and then announce he would come back later with the money. That is crap. Take cash with you. The ploy I like is to dicker as best you can to get a better price. Maybe you get it. Maybe you and the broker reach a point where you won't come up and he won't come down in the negotiations. Then take out the cash and count out to some point in between his low number and your high number and offer him an immediate cash sale take-it-or-leave-it deal right then and there. The ploy often works well. The broker is often willing to make a quick sale, recoup his cost and a little profit as opposed to making a higher cost item like a gun sit in the case for a long period of time. The amount of cash may be quite handy to his primary line of work, making loans!

Just a thought, but as always, it is buyer beware. In most cases, the products are used and the broker himself has never test-fired the guns to see if they work properly or not.

[Leatherneck]

I'll second that DoubleNaught--the technique of laying down cash works even with a checkbook, and even for a truck! Sort of a twist on "put your money where your mouth is". Especially when the dickering has been cordial.

[PKAY]

I have experience dealing with pawn shops in the purchase of firearms and jewelry. One in particular, owned and operated by Russian emigres'. Their prices have been very fair, and they have been eager to negotiate when I felt their prices were too high. Each time I visit I bring a downloaded hard copy of the CA DOJ list of approved "safe" handguns for their reference. They are so ethical that after my purchase of a very nice piece of estate jewelry, a bracelet for my wife, last week, the owner called me to tell me he had over charged me for the item! He said his scale was switched to penny weight instead of grams causing a substantial weight differential from the actual. I came in and he refunded me one third of what I felt had actually been high market for the piece. He explained how he had made the error. I told him he had made a customer for life by his honesty and integrity. And he has.

OTOH, my experience with another pawn shop in the same community has been abysmal. When inquiring about firearms for sale, the owner would bring out a large plastic wash basin akin to those used in hospitals with handguns literally piled together inside (prompting me to dub the pawn shop, "Tub-O-Guns"). Most were in pretty bad shape, as you may well imagine. In response to a fair offer for a given piece, the owner would always counter with the NIB 100% value AND REFUSED TO BUDGE. This applied to any and all firearms she had for sale. Needless to say she never made a sale to me.

Sadly, both of these shops no longer deal in firearms at all due to the recently passed legislation restricting retail handgun sales to those on "The List," and to the requirement that a gun owner retrieving his legally owned piece from a pawn dealer must undergo a CA Instant Check, pay $21 DROS, and wait 10 days before picking it up. Most handguns pawned yield the owner under $100, so one can imagine the shock of having to cough up a DROS fee when one is already fairly down and out. This matter resulted in my Russian emigre' friends being threatened with death by some patrons. They got tired of having to explain that it is the law, not they trying to rip people off. So they gave up trading in or accepting firearms for pawn. The grand irony, of course, of this legislation is that instead of pawning a firearm which is later sold in legal commerce to a cleared person, the gun is now sold on the street to the highest bidder. Stupid and shortsighted, but it's "for the children."

[Alerion]

Bacchus,

Here are a couple of my thoughts on your original post;

Prices are almost always negotiable in pawn shops. Especially on used guns. While distributer prices are pretty well set, pawn shops buy used guns for whatever the previous owner was willing to take for them. It's common business practice to "buy low and sell high" so you might be able to get a pretty good deal on a gun the the pawnbroker "bought right." Even better if it's a gun that's been on the shelf for a while. It's a little harder to deal on guns that are in high demand since the broker can pretty well figure it'll sell quickly without discounting the price very much.

I probably would deal with the larger shop and let the smaller one go. Mainly because the bigger shop has more selection and I don't like someone telling me that what he has in inventory is just as good as what I want. Besides, the better pawn shops I've been in (for buying guns) are the ones that do a lot of business in guns. Too many low volume dealers want to make a killing on every sale.

There are good and bad pawnbrokers out there. It's pretty well up to you to determine how comfortable you are dealing with them. The only thing that I've really come to recognize as a red flag are the ones who keep telling you how honest they are or how they'll make you a great deal, often both statements are lies.

Along with that, there are also good customers and I've tried to be one. First of all, I don't make insulting offers on a gun. My first offer may be in the low end of the price range but it's realistic. I won't start out by offering $200 for a $750 gun. Second, if my offer is accepted I intend to complete the purchase. I don't see where it's any more ethical for me to back out of an offer to purchase than it would be for him/her to back out of an offer to sell. "I know I said you could have it for $500 but I decided I really don't want to sell it." Yeah right!

I've bought several guns from a shop run by an older lady with a reputation for being hard to deal with. She probably sells more guns than any other shop in town, including the chains. But she needs a reputation for being pretty tough since this is a college town and she sees more than her share of jerks. With me she's just the opposite. She makes a point of showing me the "good stuff" and lets me know what she can really make a deal on. (She sold me my Beretta 96, used but LNIB, for $400!) And she almost always offers $25-75 off any gun I look at right off the bat and we go from there. But she also knows that if I think the price is right I'm going to buy the gun right there on the spot. Plus I don't pay with a credit card (CC's cost them 3-9%!) I used to always pay cash but now she knows my checks are good so she'll take them. Either way she gets to keep all the money. I've never made a deal with her that both of us weren't happy with.

So, I'd suggest that if you want to deal with the larger shop that you get to know the owner/manager and always make a point of dealing with that same person. Whichever shop you deal with, and there's no reason you can't deal with both, establish yourself as a good, reasonable, customer. Follow through with any deals you make. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Tom

[ghillieman]

red label... yes that is true however if a customer beats a shop down , being america, the sales man will remember this and chose not to be as liberal with the deals the idiot only cuts his own throat...... I work in the largest pawn shop in my state. really...... if people are nice we help them, if they are not nice they can hit the door..... we anit got a problem with that . if you never workd a pawn store, you cannot believe the idiots or the stupidness of some people. it would amaze you we hear every sob story known to man... a pawn store is nothing more than an insane assilum. however as with any bussiness its you steady customers that pay the bills. you know them they know you. when they want something they ask for a deal and they get it . The once in the store guy who tryies to beat you down then says I'll think about it will never get a good deal. Remember america works both ways.. when I got to my faverite gun store (14year repeat customer) I say take care of me thats all I end up with great deals. like the sign says....we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone!!!!!!!!

[Ala Dan]

I've only compared pricing information with these guy's,
and found that here in central BamaLand the pawn shop
guy's are usually up to no good; often times charging more
than what a regular firearms dealer would.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Gewehr98]

They have a vintage 1903 Springfield, matching serial numbers, barrel right date for the receiver, mirror bore, etc. They're asking $1100.00 for it. Problem is, the stock was cut back to just under the rear sight, the Pachmayr recoil pad was nailed on to the shortened butt, and the floorplate/triggerguard was from a 1903A3. I know there's some haggling space in there, but he pulled out Fleyderman't Blue Book and described it as a 90+% 1903, hence the high sticker. Sheesh. It's still very restorable, I'm just thinking of a way to make the shop owner see the light. Unless, of course, he was too far into the gun to begin with...

[Bowser]

PKAY,

I am (perhaps incorrectly) assuming that any gun or handgun sold in a pawn shop is by definition used, or at least previously owned. Therefore it is exempt from the DOJ Drop safety test, and does not need to be on the list.

The stupid DOJ rules apply only to new handguns.

[Bacchus]

Thanks for all the replies, especially with regard to the scruples and ethics of pawn shops. I really enjoyed the comments. It appears that the best action may be to establish a relationship with one or more of the employees and go from there.

[MAKOwner]

I find with items/things that I am actually interested in, I already know far more about when I go in to look at/buy it than the salesman. Just my nature I guess, so I have no problems buying from people that I know are full of **** when they try to talk about the product, I run into ALL the time. Pawn Shops are all about haggling. You know they have no where near what they're asking for in those guns...

[Red Label]

Yet again I have to address the issue of backing out of a sale. I have NEVER backed out of one. NEVER! There are at least three pawn shops in my city where the faces of the salesman light up when they see me -- because I buy a lot from them, and I pay a fair [to both of us] price for the items. I love to patronize pawn shops. I love to find that once-in-a-while diamond in the rough for a bargain. It's great. Let me repeat... I have NEVER set a price and backed out of a sale. I have inquired about the price and sort of dickered with them about a possible cash discount, and then proceeded to "think about it". They NEVER seem upset about this and the next time I am in they eagerly deal with me again on another item. I don't waste their time, that is unless they consider selling many items to me as wasting their time.

BUT BUT BUT... if for any reason I felt uneasy about a sale before I had handed over the cash, I would NOT hesitate to withdraw from the sale. That is my (or anyone's right). It's either that, or I would have to figure out how to unload an item that I had decided I didn't want in the first place. Geesh! But go ahead anyways and lecture me about keeping one's word and all that if it makes you feel better...

[GunGeek]

I am (perhaps incorrectly) assuming that any gun or handgun sold in a pawn shop is by definition used, or at least previously owned. Therefore it is exempt from the DOJ Drop safety test, and does not need to be on the list.

Private party transfers are exempt, ANY transfer where an FFL bought the gun and now is selling the gun it must be on the list, look for shops that do consignment, It counts as private party then.