Arm the Pilots, Stunguns are WORTHLESS!, or, How I spent my Fourth of July.

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

I'M BAAACK!! AND I'VE BEEN UP TO NO GOOD!
What ho and what hey, all and sundry. Miss me?

Been missing from here lately. Been mucho busy. Busy having fun, that is, in my own twisted way. Working a lot, also.

You may remember I tested a 500,000-volt stungun the hard way not too long ago. Link: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...hreadid=109014

Came back one other time and took two zaps, with about the same consequenses as the first try. But I still wanted to take on the batteries with the intent of draining them. Just stubborn that way, I guess. Or stupid. Depends on who you ask.

Here's the report on the follow-up. Enjoy.

No Fireworks in MY town for the Fourth? Not bloody likely!

To the point. Palo Alto, in all it's liberal wisdom, banned fireworks for the common folks as a fire hazard some years ago. Therefore, in the interest of livening up this sleepy liberal pesthole, we moved the H_R_G vs. The Stungun thing up to the Fourth. Wheee! Sparks is a flyin'! We went out to a local golf course close to a fireworks show for me to do a little research and DSP a little filming.

Now I made this grandiose claim that I was going to try to drain a pair of nine-volt batteries by taking those half-a-million volt zaps until I couldn't stand it. Well, I suited action to words, and proceeded to explore the world of electric pain in ernest. Hoo-boy!

Did I drain the gun? HAH! What do you suppose I was smoking when I made THAT idiotic statement? It beat me, to say the least. But...

I took TEN of those blasted shocks before I gave up. AND I said I'd do it again. I'm yet to be satisfied.

The first eight were pretty consistent. The first two or three actually dumped me on the ground, but after that, I figured out how to stay on my feet after a hit. They spun me around, but I just regained my balance, and came back for more. Aarrr! Stubborn and relentless, I am! Stand back!

For some reason, #9 was a weak one. Aha! says I, the gun weakens. I'm winning!

Silly me. I spoke too soon. Such was not the case.

Half-million volt stun-shots can be likened to being pinched HARD by a great big pair of red-hot sharpened pincers. All the shots felt about the same with th exception of #9, which was weak, and #10, which felt like it tore a large chunk of my arm out.

The #10 shot felt like the same pinch, sunk in deeper, and then torn out with a violent twist in a bloody rip. That one REALLY HURT. Usually the zaps elicit a grunt of pain, or a swear word, the kind of thing you yell when you hit your thumb with a hammer. That last shot wrenched a loud, agonized SCREAM out of me. It was by far the worst of the ten. It was so bad, I stopped. Ten was enough. None of the previous zaps were anything like THAT painful. I wonder what I did different? That has been by far the worst of the now thirteen total jolts I've gotten so far. If it was that bad every time, I might have a different opinion of these things.

The net result of all this was NOT MUCH. I got hit all ten times in just a few minutes, managed to stay on my feet for most of them, including the nasty one, and suffered NO ILL EFFECTS. I stopped because I was getting tired of the pain bites, the folks watching were starting to really cringe, (We had an audience of casual fireworks-watchers that were VERY surprised at my idea of sparks.) and that last one was a killer.

ZZAP! (@#%*&!! This isn't really fun.) "Thank you sir, may I have another?" ZZAP! Ooouch. "Thank you sir, may I have another?" ZZAP!...you get the idea.


I wound up panting, like I had just run a race, but that only lasted a couple of minutes. Got some nice grill marks on my shoulder where I took all the hits. It felt like I had a sub-surface sunburn.

All it took to go get another slice of pain was a bit of will-power, and I wasn't even pissed. Wasn't fortified with alcohol, either. That would be cheating. Stunguns are WORTHLESS. THEY WILL NOT STOP AN ANGRY, HOPPED-UP, OR DETERMINED INDIVIDUAL.

This was the biggest, meanest, evil-est stungun we could find. 500,000 volts, and it ran about $120! DON'T BUY ONE, BUY A MAKAROV! OR AMMO! Maybe some nice hollowpoints, that'll actually DO something.

The dang thing didn't even turn up the gravity this time. I must be getting used to this. I was only a little wobbly after ten good zaps.

Well, maybe not "good". Those bastards hurt, make no mistake, but it didn't "stun" me in any way! I was completely functional and stable. Physically stable, that is. I could see some legitimacy to claims to the contrary regarding my mental state.

And don't be thinking you could jump on your assailant and hold the gun against them to produce stunning affects. Under the onslaught of such pain, adrenaline will allow the attacker to heave you off in order to get away from the pain. It operates on reflex level. I don't think anyone could hope to hold still for those zaps.

Then, of course, they'll get up with murderous intentions. And PLENTY of energy.

The only good thing that happened is that I finally got a volunteer to help with next time. A good buddy of mine took a couple zaps of his own. He LAUGHED. LOUDLY. Then he asked for another one, and laughed AGAIN! He said it was the best fun he'd had in ten years! Said it cleared his head, and made him feel amped up! Some stungun, the bloody thing ran BACKWARDS for him! Sheesh, I wish that thing made ME laugh.

Of course, he stopped at TWO, after I had taken eight. The camera guy was starting to do his wrap-up when I tapped him on the shoulder and said I wasn't done. Used up all the volunteer zappers, as no-one really wanted to hurt me that much. Wound up that the cameraman had to do the last five, and he was starting to be bothered by his "Humanity factor", as he called it. Suffice it to say that I wore out the ability of my friends to enjoy seeing me in pain. They were laughing at the start, but not at the end. I guess that means I don't hang out with people who are actually evil.

And I really did volunteer to do it again. The Stun-off is coming, and I have to beat ten zaps by a significant amount, say five more at least. That oughta be a challenge.

Still trying to figure out how to drain a battery set. Hopefully, volunteers will spread it out a little more. If we drain the batteries before we quit, everybody wins! Sounds downright democratic, don't it?

Yes, I freely admit that I am a complete loon. But my lunacy will perhaps save your wife because reading about my experience will make you convince her to carry a gun like a sensible person.

Stunguns. Pshaw! I took five million volts, and didn't even slow down. AND I'm going back for more. GIVE THE PILOTS GUNS! Heck, give 'em to the rest of us, too.

A stungun, or a taser, is simply not up to the task of deterring a motivated opponent, much less a potentialy suicidal fanatic terrorist. Maybe if you let 'em run at like a couple of MILLION volts. THAT might actually accomplish something.

Nah. Give 'em guns. What are they gonna do, shoot passengers? I mean, shoot the passengers that don't NEED shooting?

Doing my part to advance the pusuit of information. Or some form of masochistic glory. Brain-addled, but enthusiastic, me. Careful what you hand me, I might just run with it. Don't EVER give me scissors.

[Libertarian]

You are insane! We need more people like you. Perhaps you could arrange a live demo in Congress before the next vote (this Thursday IIRC).

I loved the picture. You twitch nicely. Maybe you could do two stunguns next time?

[Apple a Day]

I noticed that you were wearing a long sleeved shirt. The 10th may have just made better contact than the others. Have you done it with exposed skin?
I vote for the Makarov.

[Rovert]

HRG, I think you should send this in a letter, to your Senators, Ashcroft, and Minetta.

[pax]

HRG,

Yep, you're nuts.

But right on.

Send a note to congress. Or better yet, the video.

pax

[Bogie]

Better idea. Go to Congress as an expert witness. Tell 'em they can stun you, but you've got 10 seconds after each stun to whack 'em up side the head.

Or don't tell 'em, and just do it.

[D.W. Drang]

H_R_G: Which stun gun was this?

[braindead0]

I watched something on the News when they were talking about tasers for pilots. They got 3 police officers (2 male one female I believe) to act like they were going to attack a pilot (seated in a chair).

In each case the 'pilot' shot the attacker with the taser, all 3 looked like good hits to me and none were wearing really heavy clothing that I could tell. All 3 of these folks were pretty much unphased by the taser.

Not that it wasn't a setup by anti-taser people (coulda been)..

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

D. W. Drang: It's a "Security" brand made in Korea or some such generic stungun.

We got it at this "Disaster Preparedness/Survival" store. This place specializes in appealing to the fears of the sheeple, and selling 'em stuff to live through the collapse of civilization following an earthquake or something.

They have bottled water, dried food, Space blankets, tents, propane, stuff like that. Lots of literature about how to be prepared, what to stock up on, etc.

I find it interesting that they sell stunguns, ostensibly to protect you from looters, say, but NONE of the books they have even so much as mentions that it might prove to be a good idea to keep a gun or two around the place for the same reason. I guess you're only allowed to bend the sheeple's bubbles of illusion, not pop 'em.

Anyhow, it's a fairly cheap imported stun unit, but it was the biggest the store had. I personally have never heard of one rated at a higher voltage. It's a big, hand-filling pistol-gripped gizmo with four electrodes. The two close ones that it arcs across are about an inch and a quarter apart. It runs on two nine volt batteries, and pops with alacrity.

[thumbtack]

Have you taken one to the groin yet?

[Correia]

Dude you are freaking psycho! That has got to be one of the coolest things I have ever read on TFL!

Ever see the MTV show Jackass?

Next person who extols stunguns, I'm sending them to this thread.

[dZ]

i wonder what a grounded conductive mesh overshirt might do as anti zap armor

maybe chainmail will make a comeback

[4V50 Gary]

Hand_Rifle_Guy: I really hope you're not LEO because if you were, you're NUTS! My gawd! To get zapped 10 times. Huevos Grande! If you ever need a job, drop into a police academy or any agency and find the instructor for stun guns. You can rent yourself out and in doing so, perform a valuable public service.

[LawDog]

For the record: you are more than a skosh daft. And I mean that in the nicest way.

Just out of curiosity, how long did each 'zap' last?

I ask because the only, and I mean only, times that a Electronic Restraint Device has ever worked for me is when it's been applied near a major nerve bundle and held there for eight to fifteen seconds. Once in a while this will buy you enough time for you and three of your closest partners to roll the critter off of you, slap on the 'cuffs, and dab at the fingernail gouges before the critter starts screaming, biting, cussing and kicking. Again.

Our agency swears by the NovaTech series of ERDs. We who actually have to use the little bleeps usually just swear at them.

Law"The TaserShield SUCKS"Dog

[OF]

LOL! And I thought you were nuts after your last stun-session!



Anything in the name of science!

- Gabe

[Betty]

Hand_Rifle_Guy,

When you were little, had you ever:

A. Stuck a fork in an outlet
B. Applied your tongue to an electric fence
C. Purposefully dropped a hair dryer into the bathtub while you were in it
D. Gleefully climbed the fence around the power tower that had the sign: "Caution High Voltage"

I'm just trying to find a pattern of behavior here.

[David Park]

H_R_G writes:

I personally have never heard of one rated at a higher voltage.

The Stun Master/"Stun Monster" on this page is 625,000 volts and uses three 9-volt batteries. I agree that, if you're going to carry something that large and heavy, it should be a handgun.

[[email protected]]

There's a big difference between "stun-guns" and Tasers. Not all stun-guns are equal. The 100000000000000000000 volts don't really mean a thing - take a voltmeter to one and you'll see some wide variance between the same models in most brands. Furthermore, getting shocked in the shoulder, ass, leg, etc is not the same as taking a shot to the trunk. Try that for a few seconds and see how you feel; right in the abs or center mass. I've done it and it wasn't pleasant.

The Taser they are talking about issuing to the pilots is the Advanced Air Taser. It's considerably stronger than any stun gun you are going to come across.

Heres some videos demonstrating their real world use -
http://www.airtaser.com/movies/videos.htm

Here's some more stats since people love them so much.
http://www.airtaser.com/2002/05/Conference_Result.htm

It's not a replacement for a firearm. It's a tool in the toolbox. It gives the officers / whomever more options.

Now all things being equal, I'm all for having people sprouting hydraulic leaks if they attempt to hijack a plane. But, if the airlines won't allow guns, they can't complain about this.

[C.R.Sam]

Sport zapping your friends, partners etc not all that new.

Doin it out in a public park is a touch of class.

Having it done to you in public is a bit touched.

Lawdog brings up a very valid point....how long and where makes a whale of a difference.

Sam

[Thumper]

Do your tongue! Do your tongue!

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

Yeah, I think I probably qualify as nuts. Old news, really. I prefer to think of it as "unique". That point of view reflects my Kaliforny upbringing.

You see? You see what living in this hell-hole of Liberal enlightenment can do to a person? It's all their fault! I KNOW it is, they told me so! I am NOT responsible! I'm NOT, I tell you! I am an innocent victim of unfortunate circumstance, and I blame society and a lack of Ritalin when I was growing up for the obviously defective and self-destructive behaviors I indulge in!



Re: location and duration.

The first three hits weren't on my shoulder. They landed on my right pectoral muscle as I was facing my "victims". There didn't seem to be a whole lot of difference in the effect. I just got bitten on the chest instead of an extremity. The "red-hot pincers" effect was the same.

Duration of any given shot was less than a second. That level of pain makes for quick reflexes, and I can lunge backwards pretty quickly, it seems. Fast enough to outrun the follow-through of the average jab, anyhow. Despite efforts to the contrary, such as bracing for the impact, I have been unable to sit still long enough to get a sustained shock. That's part of the reason for multiplicity. I wanted to give the gun the maximum opportunity to do it's incapacitation number.

It failed to incapacitate, or even slow me down, much. That's why I'm going to do it AGAIN. Shooting for fifteen hits at least. Maybe I'll convince myself to let someone zap me when I'm already down so as to get in a really good shot or two.

Wait a second. What am I SAYING!? That thing HURTS! I suggest no-one hold their breath on that particular aspect of the test.

NOTE: ALL of Spark's points are completely valid. Tasers ARE NOT the same as stunguns. Stunguns merely qualify as a "Pain compliance device." If we decide to eguip pilots with Tasers, I think they will not be badly served.

But I STILL want 'em to have guns for back-up. Sometimes the lethal solution is the only one.

And for all you folks who are just brim-ful of useful suggestions of where to take a stunshot, I'll THINK about your suggestion right after I watch you demonstrate it.

[C.R.Sam]

"It failed to incapacitate, or even slow me down, much. That's why I'm going to do it AGAIN. "

Physically.

Sam

[Bogie]

I like those belts... The ones they put on possibly unruly prisoners, and then hand the guy on the other side of the room a remote control.

Instant politeness.