NEW pistols -- Rohrbaugh 9mm -- more information

[Blackhawk]

R-9 and MS-9

Stainless and aluminum, tiny and potent, and they've intrigued many of us since prototypes were available for some to see early this year at the SHOT Show in Las Vegas. The website, http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/, doesn't really have some of the other information I think is important, so I asked Eric Rohrbaugh:

1. Warranty? (Sounds about as good as it gets.) "The warranty is to be very simple....If it should break for any reason, we will repair it to factory spec...no charge, other than the usual shipping charges." That means the owner pays to send it to Rohrbaugh, and Rohrbaugh pays return shipping costs.

2. Striker fired or multiple strike capability? "The new R-9 and MS-9 are D.A.O. hammer setups. If you have a misfire, just pull the trigger again."

3. What's the difference between the R-9 and the MS-9? "The difference between the two guns....The MS-9 is the first patented "Safe-Gun Technology" semi-auto 9mm pistol in the world. The "Model T" of safeguns if you will. The R-9 is the same gun without the magnetic safegun trigger."

4. Any restrictions on dry firing? "Dry fire it as much as you like with an empty chamber......No Problem."

5. What's the comparative recoil from a 9mm that small? "Recoil is like a Walther PPK .380 shooting Plus-P loads."

6. What kind of sights? "We are... going to put a sighting system on the gun called "The Eights"... It is basically two dots you would line up one on top of the other to look like the number "8" and there is your simple....clean sight."

7. When will they be available? "Right now we are on schedule to have the production models available we feel by around October of this year."

These guns are a shade bigger than a Kel-Tec P-32, and since they're 9mm instead of .32, they'll surely get a closer look for CCW purposes. At 14 ounces, the recoil should be about the same as a P-11 since their empty weights are about the same. I never shot my P-11 alongside my PPK, so I don't have a good basis for comparison.

I'm not a fan of internal locks, but then again, I don't have a state or otherwise mandated need for them either. The option to pass on it is nice.

Pricing is not firm yet, but $695 and $795 was projected at the SHOT Show. My guess is that it will be lower, more like the Kahr pricing, until the gun catches on. Then it should go up based on what I perceive as high demand, especially due to its sheer attractiveness as a small, potent, and good looking "Mighty Mouse" gun.

[E357]

Thanks for the great info. I'll start saving. Were the prototype guns full power working models or non-firing "mock-ups"? I can see the weight,width and height, but I'd be astonished at a reliable 9mm shorter than my P32.

Elliot

[Blackhawk]

Dunno about the "mock-up" question. I first heard about Rohrbaughs here on TFL and followed a few derived trails.

I'll be astonished too, and I'm ready to be...!

[Jeff OTMG]

The prototypes were working models, not mock-ups. As far as price is concerned, my guess is that since Masaad Ayoob is going to get one of the first guns produced in the final configuration to do an article on and the article should be published before the release of the pistol, I suspect that we will have a Seecamp condition on the market until production meets demand. If it is anything like a Seecamp we could see $1000+ guns and a shortage for years. I am not familiar with Rohrbaugh's production capacity, but I would guess that they are going to be able to sell as many of them as they can build for some time.

[Watch-Six]

All I can say is WOW! Watch-Six

[Futo Inu]

Well, Jeff, since you're an industry insider, surely you'll be able to get one of the first ones, right? You know more than Mas, so you should get the first one, not him. Sounds good - I want one. I guess I'll have a few years to save up, if what Jeff says is true, in order to get a reasonable price. Hopefully they have a larger production capacity than Seecamp. But it sounds like they're no dummies, so they won't go so fast as to let some turkeys escape. This is a good thing, though, in the long run, for them and for us. If their smart gun actually works reliably, I'll find it amusing that this little upstart company beat both Colt's Mfg and *&* to the punch on marketable smart guns. Man, won't this ultimate "pocket rocket" make Dick Daley and Blojobovich loose sleep at night? Oh wait, I forgot; BJ was never in favor of banning guns.

[M1911]

The magentic trigger lock thingy sounds a lot like the Magna-trigger that Rick Devoid installs on revolvers. It doesn't suprise me that Ayoob would get one of the first ones for eval, especially if Rick Devoid is tangentially involved in the company, since Mr. Devoid is one of Ayoob's senior instructors at LFI.

M1911

[Blackhawk]

Could be, M1911. The Magna-Trigger has been around a while, but Rohrbaugh is claiming its version is patented and the first on a 9mm pistol. Maybe the patented innovation is getting the concept to work in the pistol.

Magnets from old speakers were some of my favorite toys as a kid, and I know if one of these pistols ever showed up in the house and the word "magnet" was ever associated with it, I'd be after it in a blink to see if my magnets would do something....

The lock shouldn't possibly be considered as a kid-proofing device, and wearing magnetic rings by those who work around computers bothers me....

[Correia]

Yep, the ring safety does work like the old magna trigger. Roarbaugh told me that they plan on having an inhouse jewler, so the magnetic stuff could be inserted in your existing rings as a custom option.

[dj1726]

Had me until the magnetic ring! K.I.S.S.- keep it simple. I do not want a variable between me and the trigger functioning correctly! Hopefully that safety can be removed.

[M1911]

dj1726:

If you go to the website links provided by Blackhawk, you'll see that the MS-9 has the magnetic locking system and the R-9 does not.

M1911

[Dave R]

FWIW, I have fired my P-11 and my PPK (clone) back-to-back to compare recoil. The P-11 is a tad snappier than the PPK. So Rohrbach's description of a .380+p sounds right to me.

[dj1726]

M1911,
Thanks, I skimmed the pages and did not notice that. Looks like I will have to start squirling some funds away!!!

[Blackhawk]

Thanks, Dave.

Have you, by any chance, compared the recoil of your PPK to that of a P-32 or another .32 ACP mouse gun?

The Rohrbaugh is about the size of a P-32 with, perhaps, the recoil of your PPK. The P-32 has pleasant recoil that I don't find all that different from my P-11, but I hold them in a tight, vise like grip, so I don't notice much difference between them and an M1991-A1 .45 either.

As I recall, my old PPK had a comfortable grip and fit my hand nicely. My thinking is that a 9mm fired from a platform a shade bigger than a P-32 for somebody with a "loose" grip might be a little gamier than women would tolerate. Of course, they need to practice and grip it properly, but they won't.... Men would just clamp down harder so it shouldn't bother them.

[Futo Inu]

See M1911, I hope you're happy with yourself - by pointing that out, you just cost dj several hundred dollars - ha!

[alamo]

Hey Blackhawk,

Better contact Ray right now to set up the software so your "Rohrbaugh Forum" will be operational when they start shipping them out.

[Blackhawk]

Do I get free pistols if I do, an R-9 AND an MS-9?

After all, I'd need to have personal knowledge of them and all that....

Rich, are you listening...?

[M1911]

Futo:

Anything I can do for the cause

My motto is: "Buy 'em all!"

M1911

[Onslaught]

Wow... that truely is "P32" sized... in fact, it's actually .2" shorter in length!

Here's my updated comparison chart with all outstanding ???'s filled in, if anyone's interested...

BTW, in case you've noticed my affinity for comparison charts, and my seemingly impulsive purchasing behaviour from time to time.... This is what I do every time I have more than one handgun option... After lots of individual handling and shooting to weed out the obvious losers, I take all the choices, put 'em on paper, and look at 'em a LOT.

This forum needs a good "schizo" smilie... so I can use it on my posts when appropriate. just isn't good enough...

[Blackhawk]

Onslaught, I always enjoy looking at comparison charts. My brain must be organized in tables and rows or something.

In fact, I remembered your table when I was writing the original post of this thread, but I couldn't remember where it was!

If I can figure out how, do you mind if I include your table or a link to it in an edit to the top post?

Thanks!

[bad_dad_brad]

It really seems too good to be true, but one of the first thoughts I had when I bought my P32 was, with a little tinkering and some steroids, this thing could shoot a 9mm.

I love my MK9, but if this little jewel turns out to be the real deal, I will be buying one.

[Blackhawk]

That seems to be pretty much the general concensus, Brad.

It does seem that the time is right for a 9mm Mighty Mouse gun, and Rohrbaugh seems to have the action and features "right" for one.

Launch time is just 2 months away!

[enfwago]

How does the R-9 differ from the P11 besides being a little bit smaller?

[Blackhawk]

The R-9 is a LOT smaller than the P-11 even though it weighs the same. In fact, the R-9 is just a bit shorter, taller, and wider than the Kel Tec P-32. Onslaught posted a table comparing the R-9, the Kahr PM-9 and the Kel Tec P-32 in an earlier post on this thread. The P-11's specs are:

Technical Specifications
Calibers: 9 x 19 mm Luger
Weight unloaded lbs. 14 oz. 400g
Loaded magazine 6oz. 159g
Length 5.6" 142mm
Height 4.3" 109mm
Width 1" 26mm
Sight radius 4.6" 116mm
Muzzle energy max 400 ftlbs 540J
Capacity 10+1 rounds
Trigger pull 9 lbs 40N

The numbers don't really give you a feel for the differences in size. I have both a P-11 and a P-32, and the P-11 is small, but the P-32 is tiny by comparison.

I'll be a lot of R-9s end up in places where P-11s don't go -- like purses and pockets just like P-32s do now.
The R-9's construction of stainless and aluminum instead of polymer is also a large distinguishing difference.

So, the R-9 is 6+1, while the P-11 is 10+1, and the R-9 is tiny by comparison to the P-11. The R-9 is also going to be considerably more expensive, but I don't see them as direct competitors because the P-11 is an accurate compact CCW, and the R-9 is a mouse gun.

[22lovr]

Probably more than length or height, for a pocket pistol, it has to be THIN. .081" is incredible for a 9mm platform. That's approx .009 narrower than Kahr's newly released PM9.

I also don't care a whit about unloaded weight either; Loaded weight with a full mag of ammo is where the rubber meets the road. The weight looks to be in the NAA G380 or Kahr PM9 neighborhood.

Sounds like they'll have a lightweight high-velocity striker system, much like the KelTec P11. Hope it doesn't have the mile-long trigger pull of the P11; Rather it be a little shorter and a little stiffer pull.

Bottom line? "Build it and they will come."