Should I have called 911?

[jrsower]

This was probably 3 or 4 months ago, been thinking about it ever since, just got around to posting a thread on it now...

The wife and I are in the kitchen getting dinner ready and I look out the door and there's 3 teenagers in the street playing basketball, dorking around, etc. One of them had a pistol (or what looked like a real pistol) in his pants, mexican carry. Any time he was fouled he would pull it out and wave it around, stick it back in his pants. It was very obvious that he was kidding around because the other two dudes laughed every time.

We live in an extremely great neighborhood. Nice homes, zero crime, that kind of thing. I know that doesn't mean it couldn't happen here but it makes you think you aren't as likely to witness something like what I saw.

I'm pretty confident that it was an airsoft, pellet gun or some other such nonsense since he was waving it around so freely, but I'm willing to be wrong on this one.

So here's my question, should I have called? What would you have done?

[Chuck McDonald]

I'd say you did the right thing...mind your own business....

Kids have enough problems without being given a bad time over having fun.... they know enough to know if the firearm were real not to let anyone see it....

FWIW

[riddleofsteel]

Anyone waving around ANY gun, fake or not, is a major dumba** or screwup or both. Beside the fact that this type of behavior would get him killed in my neighborhood there is the outside chance he was playing the fool with a loaded gun.

For what it is worth he needs a huge behavior adjustment. He doesn't seem to have learned on his own so maybe the law can help.

I was involved in a situation where a teenager was brandishing a firearm in front of a K-Mart to the terror of the sheeple involved. You better believe we called the law.

[CZ Gunner]

I'd probably have tried to find an "excuse" to walk by where they were playing to get a better view of it. (Checking the mail, taking the trash out, visiting a neighbor, etc. (Wouldn't do in bad neighborhood, I'd just go straight to 911.)

If it looked even close to being real, I'd have called 911 and explain to them the situation ... including the fact that you're not 100-percent certain of the facts. (Hate to see a kid shot for having toy or cell phone or something.)

Guns are NOT toys and "toy" guns are dangerous!

Just my 2 cents.

[Mike Irwin]

Quite frankly, yes.

[Steve in PA]

Yes, I would have called.

[hitnthexring]

I can't believe your reply. It could have been a real gun, but even if it weren't, a police officer should read him the riot act for behaving so foolishly. Besides, in case you weren't aware, many people have been shot while waving a realistic-looking toy gun, including one young actor recently in Beverly Hills.
Shame on you!

[hitnthexring]

You definitely should have called 911. If the gun were real, someone's life may have been saved. If the gun were not, you might have been saving that FOOL'S life. Many people have been shot by police or civilians while waving a realistic-looking gun.

[hksigwalther]

Even if it was a toy gun, if it looked real, I would have called.

[Rovert]

I think the decision to call or not to call is too limiting.

Perhaps there are other approaches?

It's clear the youth in question has ZERO respect for, and awareness of, how dangerous a gun can be... airsoft or not. Perhaps one way would have been to nonconfrontationally approach the three of them, explain that you don't want to bust their chops, but what this guy was doing was not only a bad idea (reasons can be enumerated later), but the neighbors might call the cops. In that same conversation, you might suggest that if they're interested in REALLY learning about guns, that you would be willing to take them shooting, but as a prerequisite, a THOROUGH safety and awareness class for them would be required.

My reasoning here is that since they're teens, using authority will no doubt cause a feeling of resentment, and the wall will go up, and the 'message' shut out.

Rather, treating them as equals, and pulling them into a dialog about ADULT RESPONSIBILITIES, and the honor, priviledge and responsibility that goes along with being a firearms owner and shooter, will begin the 'deprogramming' process of blisninny crap they're no doubt being taught in school. I'm fairly sure they'll respond positively, when they are treated like adults, in a stranger's home.

Here's your chance to turn three idiot kids into aware, thinking, responsible adults. If you see them again, there's still time. These kids are no doubt residents in the area, which you claim is upscale, therefore, you should probably know their folks, and be safe. You'll have an opportunity to 'hatch' three allies in the fight for the cause, and do a good deed at the same time.

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a psychologist, nor do I play as one on TV.

[blades67]

I would've called the police on their non-emergency number, told them what was going on and that the gun may not be real, but have them come out and check to be sure.

[Gumbo]

Since the kids seemed to be goofing, I would have went outside and called the young man over. What harm could have been done by explaining to the kid that displaying anything that looks like a gun can get you killed. I always keep a couple of copies of the 10 commandments of gun safety handy incase one of my children bring over a friend that is not familar with firearm safety. If the parents agree, they get their first lesson before they are allowed to tear up my kids bedrooms =)

Sure, I may have taken an unnecessary risk by approaching the youth and trying to give some positive education on general life and specific firearm safety but I think our young people are worth that risk. They will be changing our diapers some day.

[charleym3]

If you know them or possibly if they look like they belong in the neighborhood, I would consider going and having a talk with them. If not dial 911 and let them sort it out. They do that sort of thing for a living.
Once I played super hero and tried to interceed when a drunk driver was leaving the scene of a serious crash. It was a very bad experience.

[Standing Wolf]

I'd have dialed 911: guns aren't toys. I live in an open carry state--although carrying openly varies quite a bit from locale to locale--but teen-agers aren't legally qualified to pack iron. I'd guess the odds were high the gun was a toy, but that's for trained, qualified law enforcement officers to sort out, not this civilian.

[slick slidestop]

I would have called the law.

I would not have called him over if I didn't know him. What if it was a real gun and he got mad and shot you?

Real or not, even Airsofts and BB guns are to be treated like a real weapon.

[CAP1]

I would have called. They probably would have never known WHO called anyway.
Even shooting BB guns in the city is illegal, not to mention eyes are lost all the time accidentally with just such playing. I couldn't live with myself if any of the neighborhood kids was injured.
My .02
CAP

[Wingshooter]

My younger brother suffered a stroke when he was younger and is now developmentally delayed. He's 18, but in appearance and stature he looks about 12 (mentally he's at about a 1st grade level- depending on what it is). One of his favorite things to do is go outside in front of my parents house, usually with a yo-yo and watch the world go by. One day he walked out with a toy gun and started pointing it at cars that went by. The third or fourth car to go by was a police car, they pulled over and and gave him a good butt chewing. He didn't understand too well, by that time my father came out front to see what was going on. Where the PD left off my dad continued. Boy did that kid get an earful (much deserved- we've taught him the 4 rules many times over). Even if he can't remember the 4 rules, he knows right from wrong. He won't ever do that again.

The bright side of the story, I got to take him out skeet shooting two weekends after that. Now he has no doubt in his mind why guns (toy or not) should be handled properly. He doesn't have toy guns any more, we have more fun with the real things. Great family time too.

If he can learn, any teenager can learn.

[Gary H]

You could always call and ask the police the same question. Non-emergency number.

[theberettaman]

Walk out the door go over to the kid and ASK!!Jesus F'in Christ.What's so hard about that.Yea we all want safe neighborhoods AND guns.Well do your part.So what if the kids think you're a jerk.Tell him it's not wise and to stop or you'll contact his parents,and that other,not so nice guys might have just called the cops and they would be telling his parents.Let kids be kids.Correct them but let them be young!
Sorry for the rant,the situation just seemes too "Soccer Mom'ish"

[swingset]

How sad things are.

In my neighborhood in the 70's, at any given moment, there were probably at least 5 kids brandishing rather genuine looking firearms. This wasn't a concern for anyone, no one ever called the police, and we had (gasp) our parent's permission to do so. It was called "playing guns".

[Seeker]

I think going out and talking with them as equals, as already mentioned, would be best.

As for calling the police - it seems like a great way to get a kid shot.

[spacemanspiff]

yeah chuck, and while were at it, lets mind our own business about domestic violence. after all, that man over there isnt posing a threat to you or your loved ones, hes just 'expressing his love' for his woman by giving her five over the eyes. i mean, hes got enough problems at home with his woman who never learns, right? he doesnt need the law getting on his back too, huh?

turn a blind eye, the potential victims will thank you later for it.

[Mr.Wingshooter]

I played guns everyday from the 3rd grade up to the 7th, after the 7th my time went to girls and sports, heh! Anyway, it all was completely harmless and all the neighborhood moms thought it was fine, of course it was in Arkansas. I guess in big cities any time someone sees a gun they freak out.

In that situation in a nice hood don't call the police, just walk out see if the gun is real or not, then if it real inform the teen that he if keeps waving that thing around he might end up in juvi jail cause he is breaking a law.

[Double Maduro]

I can't believe some of you guys.

You don't know if it is a "REAL" gun or not or if the kids are on some controlled substance or in a gang or have just robbed, burgled, raped or killed someone and you are suggesting that you casually stroll up to them and have a chat.

What idiocy is this?

If someone is waving a gun in front of your house, the steps are;

1. Get your family inside and lock the doors and windows.

2. Call the police and say "someone is waving a gun around in front of my house".

3. Arm yourself if possible.

4. Wait for the police to arrive.

Approaching anyone, friend or stranger, who is waving a gun around is a very foolhardy thing to do.

You should have called the police

[Libertarian]

MYOB is great advice.

-or-

Since you live in a good neighborhood and the kids were not acting badly, you could have called him over and told him that he might get into trouble if someone who is more of a nervous busybody than you saw him. Also explain proper gun handling.

-or-

Break his jaw, stomp him into the carpet, call the FBI, operation TIPS and 911. (Of course, you should only take this tact if he is an Arab and might support Al Qaeda.)

[Goet]

Talk about your !!!






They're just kids playing basketball!!! Odds are that it is a toy or a replica. Talking to the kid will not get you shot, unless you're so hotheaded you shouldn't be let out in public to talk to anyone.


Rational discussion with the kid can do wonders.

IMO, observation to make sure it is a toy would be prudent, to say and do the least.






I hope you never call the cops on my kids when they're playing cops and robbers.


SHEEESH!!!

[Double Maduro]

Goet,

About 10 years ago I was outside working on my truck and heard the neighbor kids "playing guns". I looked up and the "GOOD KID" from down the block was pointing a rather large revolver at my head. When I looked at him he lowered the gun and I went to talk to him, turns out it was a fully loaded .357 mag. This kid was 15 at the time.

If you don't want to be shot. Stay out of danger. Walking up to a strange kid who is waving a handgun around is stupid, STupid, STUPID.

Remember these kids aren't acting rationaly, one of them is waving a gun at the others and they are laughing about it. And they weren't playing cops and robbers.

Oh, btw, the kid, his parents and I had a long talk. I ended up teaching all of them basic firearms safety. But I still have moments when I think about how close it was.

[AndrewWalkowiak]

It's a judgment call, there is no one answer.

If I recognized the boy, and I lived in a "good" neighborhood, I would definitely check it out, and talk with him. I would approach it from a standpoint of how I felt at his age, and tell him I know how much of a drag it would be if some ninny called the cops on me when I was just being silly with a toy gun etc.

I sure did my share of running around with toy guns, then bb guns as I grew up, it would seem hypocritical to not afford other kids the same latitude just because "today" is "different".

Someone with bad intent would most likely hide the gun if it were real. I'm willing to take a small risk to do my part to beat back political correctness, blis-ninny'ism, and the nanny state. But that is just me, and I can't make that decision for someone else.

If I didn't know the kid, the kids he was playing with, or my area was known for problems, or if he was too old for me to believe he'd play with a toy gun, (in my estimation 16-17 on up) I'd probably be tempted to call the police non-emergency line, and I'd be clear I still suspected it was a toy.

[fastbolt]

When I was a child I had quite a collection of the Mattel toy guns. The Fanning Experts, Detective Special, Belt Buckle Derringers, and some .45 ACP toy pistols. Anyone that owned them as a child may remember that they could easily be mistaken for real firearms today. Toys were better made in those days, as well, I guess.

I REALLY wish I still owned those toys today, and not only for the nostalgia ... they're worth a little bit more than my parents paid for them

Anyway, my point is that NOBODY then thought it at all unusual for a neighborhood full of kids, even preteens, to be running around playing cowboys & indians, army, police and whatever ... waving guns all over the house's yards, playgrounds, streets, vacant houses & lots ...

Heck, none of the cops thought it unusual when I'd be walking along the street with my .22 rifle or holstered .22 pistol, heading off toward the fields a few blocks away to plink. Most just waved, if they even bothered to do anything.

We, however, live in different times as adults. Society has changed, and people's actions, have changed, as well.

Maybe those young folks were being harmless, although if the "pistol" you saw wasn't a replica, toy or "soft" projectile device ... and he was waving a pellet/BB gun around ... Well, that's not any more of a good safety practice now than it was back when we were kids.

Sigh ... things being what they are nowadays ... and being someone that answered just that sort of call several years ago when I was driving a marked patrol car ... Yeah, I'd say it's better to call and let things be determined by the local constabulary.

Kids have been known to do stupid things with real firearms, you know ...

Better safe than sorry ... sad, but that's the way it's become in "cities" ...

As far as going out and checking into it yourself ... Okay, just how well do you know those young people? If you don't know them ... then remember that kids unfamiliar to you, like most wild animals, can be highly unpredictable.

If you know the parents, and are on a casual friendly-neighbor basis with them, perhaps a quiet word with the parents can set your mind at ease ... and possibly allow the parents to decide if a word or two is in order to the young man in question about reasonable behavior with a replica or simulated weapon.

If it WAS real ... well, then everybody was lucky, indeed ...

The days of our childhood will not return, it seems ...

[FPrice]

Good advice! I was going to say almost the same thing but you beat me to it, and probably did a better job of it.

[MR.G]

A couple of months ago several kids, about 17 years old were wrestling around in a neighbors front yard. One of the kids lived there. One kid pulled a gun and was chasing another one around the outside the house. A neighbor called the police, and within minutes two cars were there. Officers pulled their guns, ordered the kid to drop the gun and get on the ground. The gun turned out to be one of those that shoot soft pellets. The kids were just playing around and not trying to harm each other. Lucky that the kid took the cops seriously, and didn't get shot. Would never call the cops and put my neighbors kids life in danger.

[Mr.Wingshooter]

What kind of place did you grow up? My god man, move from there out to the country, live in peace, it is a great feeling.

[Chuck McDonald]

Hitx

I can't believe you would meddle in the affairs of others who have not violated a law... ever hear of civil liberty?

The police have no right or reason to read a kid the riot act over a toy gun.. none, nada, zip, yok, nich, zero.

The cops are already way too invasive of our liberty... and simply because someone doesn't like the "nasty black gun" is not a reason for police to be involved.

If you think the kids are violating the law, I would suggest you first advise the parents and let them fix the problem (assuming there is no reason to assume they would not.)

We don't live in a police state...but there are a lot of us would turn it into such... we make a LOT of our own problems.

Of course I know my neighbors....

FWIW

Chuck

[spacemanspiff]

i know the kids in my neighborhood too. i know that if they were playing around, even with a toy gun that could be mistaken for the real thing, its in the best interests of the entire neighborhood that the kids and parents know what to expect. suppose someone driving by the street sees the kids playing with a plastic gun? the driver doesnt know its plastic, he just sees someone pointing a gun at another. he decides to stop and draw his/her own weapon on the kid. do you really think the kid has not put himself/herself in any danger by simply playing around with some friends? what if the driver shoots the kid when the kid doesnt comply with the directions to put the weapon down?

you mind your own business, and i'll make up for your lack.

[Chuck McDonald]

I think MYOB is excellent advice...

Try this scenario... You being the local busybody zelot decide the evil black gun is bad... and you call the cops....

These kids get lucky (NOT)... the local gendarma arrive, see the kid pull their gun... of course they just happen to carry Glocks (which are all too easy to fire unexpectedly), and officer Friendly is new on the job (or not new) ... kids turn at the screaming of the cops... and being startled swing the toy gun around....BANG!! cops react and now two of your neighbor's kids are dead, dead, dead thanks to your concern for public safety.

You can now take credit for two dead kids, two families destroyed by your "concern" and two cops who have to live with the aftermath of the shooting.

Of course you can go home comfortable in the knowledge you "got involved."


This isn't as easy as it seems.... little is what it appears to be... nothing wrong with talking to the parents... but no more than that is indicated absent any other information.

And, YES... stay out of family disputes.... WAY too dangerous... ask any LEO... the players can call the police if they are needed... you can be totally sure you will be the BG in that scenario.

[spacemanspiff]

no, its the lack of training on the peace officers part, not my concern for a neighborhoods safety, that would be at fault. not to mention the lack of training of the kids by their parents.

you must be a fine upstanding citizen, to look down on those who look out for the safety of others, friends, family, or complete strangers. i'm sure the lady you see getting beat up will truly appreciate the fact that you look the other way, seeing how she fears for her life if she were to call the authorities or try to leave. that shows true compassion and caring for the safety of other people. and if her husband pulls out a gun and points it at her, i'm sure its just fine with you to turn the other way. after all, you just have to look out for your own family, right?

i've been in the position to call the police on domestic violence situations. i'll do it every time too. so what if it makes a LEO's job a little more difficult? they knew what the risks were and what was expected of them when they first put on that badge. does it put me at any risk? sure, if the assailant in the situation wants to enact some vengance towards me for doing the right thing. thats a risk i'm willing to take, if it carries the possiblity that the domestic violence situation comes to an end.


edit - suppose you dont call the police, or even talk to the kids/parents, since you do know the kids are just playing with a toy, and a LEO or another concerned citizen winds up killing the kid when they point their 'toy' at them. is your conscience absolved of guilt because you minded your own business?

[Fred Hansen]

MYOB

Mind your own business is great advice. Back when this country had men in it, protecting hearth and home, kith and kin and God and country were the order of the day.

Idiots waving guns around were dealt with immediately. A lot fewer innocent bystanders were shot and killed by punks in those days.

Nowadays "Should I have dealt with a punk waving a gun around out in front of my house?" is actually a question.

Weird. :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:

[Double Maduro]

Chuck,

"You can now take credit for two dead kids, two families destroyed by your "concern" and two cops who have to live with the aftermath of the shooting."

In your scenario the only people responsible for the shooting of these 2 kids would be the kids and their parents. The kids for not doing what the cops said and the parents for not painting the gun orange and not teaching their kids how to behave.

Not my fault because I was concerned about the safety of my family, my neighbors, or the other kids. Not the cops fault if the kids point a realistic gun at them.

It is people who say we are not responsible for our own actions that have caused the big decline in the American way of life.

Would I feel bad, HELL YES. Would I feel responsible, HELL NO.

[Libertarian]

jmbg29, MYOB as in these are just kids messng around with a toy or a pellet gun. They need a talking to more than a call to 911. But more than likely, they are just horsing around.

I walked around with a Daisy Colt SSA BB pistol straped on when I was 11 and nearly 5'7". Not one person ever said a word to me. I never got shot dead by any cops or spooked homeowner. Shouldn't the best case be assumed if there is no evidence to the contrary?

[Fred Hansen]

jmbg29, MYOB as in these are just kids messng around with a toy or a pellet gun. They need a talking to more than a call to 911. But more than likely, they are just horsing around.

So somehow you know that it is a toy.

Shouldn't the best case be assumed if there is no evidence to the contrary?

Where is the lack of evidence? It looks like a gun. He carries it like a gun. He waves it like a gun. [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] over?????

I carried lots of real guns when I was a kid. Had I ever, just once, waved one around recklessly, I would have had it taken from me after I was slapped to the ground for being an idiot. And it wouldn't have mattered if the adult was a parent, relative or neighbor. We didn't put up with punks waving guns around, period.