Stock refinishing questions

Coronach · November 5, 2002, 11:50 AM

1. Yes, I've done a search

2. OK, really really dumb question time: Isn't wood supposed to float?

I ask because I took the cosmoline-encrusted stock off of my M1903, scraped it, wiped it, did the Purple Power degreaser thing for a while (for most of a gallon of purple power, actually), and go and put it in a tub full of hot water, all prepared to weigh it down so it will stay submerged and soak and...clunk. Its sinks straight to the bottom.

Mmmmmm-kay. I was sleeping in science class, apparently.

3. How critical is it to get all of the cosmo off of the inside of the stock? I understand you gotta get it off of the exterior before you refinish, and thats mostly done...but the recesses on the inside are still oozing cosmo like a mother, and not getting any better.

You gotta understand, the ordies at work said they have never seen a rifle with as much piled on cosmoline as this one, and I imagine they've seen quite a few. The stock was black as coal, and you could not see the rear sight under the layer of cosmo that covered every inch of the rifle...its that thick. Inside? it was like they trowelled in the stuff and then replaced the barrel and receiver. The magazine was filled full with the stuff, like it was a cosmoline jar.

4. Whats the proper finish for a 1903? Straight BLO?

5. Unrelated stock refinishing question...whats the proper finish for a birch M1 garand stock? Tung, followed by BLO?

Thanks,

Mike (covered in cosmo)

Romulus · November 5, 2002, 12:45 PM

Mike, check out this site

www.arizonaresponsesystems.com

Click on "gunplumber's guide to stock restoration..." He'll tell you how to remove entrapped grease as well as show you a really "neat" way to refinish a military stock.

Coronach · November 5, 2002, 03:00 PM

Yeah, I'm doing the closest thing I can to his oil/cosmo removal technique. I have almost all of the cosmo off of the exterior (a few patches are still seeping, though...mostly near hardware mounting points)...the interior is still nasty, though.

I guess I'll just do it again...thrice can't hurt.

Mike

Coronach · November 6, 2002, 02:57 AM

Bump?

Anyone want to tackle questions 2-5?

I'm especially interested in the answer to #2...I'm still shocked that wood doesn't float.

Mike

Khornet · November 6, 2002, 06:44 AM

so maybe you have a piece with density (specific gravity) close to or greater than water, that's all.

Or maybe there's something wrong with your water.....

Coronach · November 6, 2002, 12:40 PM

Huh...Hadn't considered that. Bad water...

Mike

Ledbetter · November 6, 2002, 02:18 PM

First boil some water.

Get a long cardboard box that will fit the stock. Line it with polyethyline, trash bags, painter's drop, whatever will hold boiling water. I used some thick poly I had around for the garden.

1. Put on plastic gloves.
2. Cover stock with Easy Off Oven cleaner (the NO LYE kind).
3. Scrub with nylon brush.
4. Pour boiling water on stock.
5. Put kettle back on.
6. Repeat until 2. -- 5. until stock is covered (I had to weigh mine down, but we have regular water here, pretty much).

Let sit for thirty minutes. Don't let kettle go dry. Scrub again. Rinse with clean boiling water. Wipe with towel.

Repeat again tomorrow.

Let dry for a week before oiling or sealing.

Good luck. I think 1903's are straight BLO. Try asking at

www.jouster.com

1903 forum.

Regards.

Alex Johnson · November 6, 2002, 10:03 PM

There's probably more forrest below water than above, it's becoming quite an issue, and a profitable one, with wood salvagers working in the great lakes and in other areas. Apparently some logs don't float and there taking out some great wood from the depths of the great lakes that is old growth harvested over a century ago and unsuccesfully floated to the saw mill. There are some interesting speculations about why one log will float and another won't, maybe your stock was carved from one of the ones that wouldn't.

Coronach · November 7, 2002, 12:58 AM

So the answers are...

#1. Not a question.

#2. I have either strange wood, or strange water. Thats comforting

#3 Unanswered

#4 Sounds like BLO

#5 Unanswered

Anyone want to take a stab at proper finish for a Garand stock made from birch, in proper military trim? Tung followed by BLO?

And how critical is it to get all the gunk out of the inside nooks and crannies? Will it ooze cosmo if it gets hot if I don't get the inside absolutely dry?

Thanks,
Mike

Ledbetter · November 7, 2002, 02:14 PM

1. So you say.

2. I thought so 'til I read this thread.
3. How clean is clean? Do the process I recommended above and see if you think there is any cosmoline left.
4. Definitely straight BLO:

http://www.jouster.com/Bulletin/TUNG.htm

5. Read the whole article above. You can basically do anything you want to an M1, especially birch. Birch M1 stocks were not made until after rifle production had stopped. Here are some stock finish examples:

http://www.dgrguns.com/parts_for_sale.htm

http://www.fulton-armory.com/StockSave.htm

http://www.trfindley.com/pgwalbir.html

Regards.

Coronach · November 8, 2002, 01:56 AM

#3 I've been doing the rough equivalent of this with a different chemical (purple power as opposed to easy-off), and using a bath tub instead of a box/bag combo. Been doing it enough times that I'm beginning to think that there is actually no wood at all and its just a giant petrified glob of prehistoric cosmoline.

Well, not really....the outside is obviously wood and is pretty much cosmo-free. This would, however, explain the sinking issue.

#5 So birch is pretty much a free-for all as far as finishing goes. OK...does anyone know of a site that has pictures of BLO-only vs. tung/BLO finishes for a birch stock? I'm assuming that linseed-only will be "yellower" and that tung/linseed will be a little darker?

Thanks again guys, this place is great.

Mike

Ledbetter · November 8, 2002, 02:03 PM

Easy Off is legendary in its effectiveness for this task. I guess the foaming sucks the grease out. The NO LYE type will not yellow the stock as will the other kind. I have used degreasers like Purple Power too and Easy Off is definitely more effective, especially if you let it soak into an already wet stock.

The advantage of the smaller container is that it takes less water to cover the stock entirely and keep the water as hot as possible. The water needs to be literally _boiling hot_ right off the stove. Try scrubbing several times during the thirty minute immersion period.

Another method is to leave the stock in the windshield of your pick up truck on a hot day. As it heats, the grease oozes out onto your dashboard, or paper towels as you prefer.

Tung oil and BLO produce no color difference that I know of. Look at the pictures on Findley's site. Compare a bit of each on an interior surface to be sure. Interestingly, Formby's Tung Oil Finish is yellower than MinWax. Minwax contains far more tung oil than Formby's and is preferred. 100% tung oil is a little harder to work with and contains no varnish or thinners like "Tung Oil Finish" does. However, I produced a really beautiful deep gloss finish on a walnut stock by applying 100% tung oil followed by Minwax Tung Oil Finish after the oil dried/soaked in.

BLO finishes are less practical and less attractive, IMHO, than tung oil finishes. Tung oil dries faster, seals the wood better and will produce a beautiful gloss if you want. If you prefer a matte finish, just use fine steel wool on the tung oil gloss and wipe with mineral spirits.

A final note, your tung oil finish will continue to "cure" and harden for a week or two after it is dry. If you want a gloss finish, rub it with rottenstone or automotive rubbing compound or automotive wax to polish it during this period. Then apply Howard's Feed'n'Wax (orange oil and beeswax) and let it sit in the dark. I am not kidding.

Regards.

Joe Portale · November 8, 2002, 02:51 PM

Let me take a wack at this.

1. okay.

2. Not all woods float. Iron wood, some dense teaks and others that slip my mind do not float.

3. Get as much of as you can. I do the Easy Off gag with a twist. Clean as much of the crud off the surface as you can with paint thinner, acetone or alcohol. Spray the wood down with the oven cleaner and let stand for about an hour. Clean it off again. Spray it down really wet with the oven cleaner once more. Wrap the oven cleaner covered stock in two or three layers of paper towels. Using a misting spray wet the whole thing up. By this I mean really damp, not dripping. Then get a big black plastic garbage bag. Put the whole mess in the bag and push out as much air as you can and tie it off good and tight.
No toss it in a sunny place for a couple of days.
You will be surprised at how much crud will come out of the wood. Next is get a stool, put on some clothes you don't care about, a medium scrub brush, a bucket full of hot water and Tide, put everything in a place you don't mind slobbering up and have at the stock with the brush and Tide.
When you are happy with the results, hang the stock to dry SLOWLY in some out of the way place. The wood will look greyish. SOme light sanding and refinishing will handle that. It would be interesting to weigh the stock before and after to see how much cosmolne came out.

4. Linseed oil...but use several coats of Tung oil, you won't be sorry.

5. See #4

Ledbetter · November 8, 2002, 03:10 PM

I will try that garbage bag trick sometime. I should have mentioned two things that he hit on.

1. If you try to dry the water out of the stock quickly, with heat or sunlight, you will do bad things to the wood and may cause cracks to appear in the stock.

2. Ignore the gray color, it goes away with the first reapplication of oil. If you want to stain the stock, seal the wood first or use a sealer/stain in case you change your mind or don't like the color. You can sand (or wipe) it off. A water based stain will soak into the wood much deeper.

Kitgun · November 12, 2002, 05:21 PM

Don't know about cleaning up your stock, but walnut won't float.

November 6, 2002, 12:40 PM	#6
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Huh...Hadn't considered that. Bad water... Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

November 6, 2002, 02:18 PM	#7
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	This is what I did to a Garand stock. First boil some water. Get a long cardboard box that will fit the stock. Line it with polyethyline, trash bags, painter's drop, whatever will hold boiling water. I used some thick poly I had around for the garden. 1. Put on plastic gloves. 2. Cover stock with Easy Off Oven cleaner (the NO LYE kind). 3. Scrub with nylon brush. 4. Pour boiling water on stock. 5. Put kettle back on. 6. Repeat until 2. -- 5. until stock is covered (I had to weigh mine down, but we have regular water here, pretty much). Let sit for thirty minutes. Don't let kettle go dry. Scrub again. Rinse with clean boiling water. Wipe with towel. Repeat again tomorrow. Let dry for a week before oiling or sealing. Good luck. I think 1903's are straight BLO. Try asking at www.jouster.com 1903 forum. Regards.

November 6, 2002, 10:03 PM	#8
Alex Johnson Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2000 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 812	There's probably more forrest below water than above, it's becoming quite an issue, and a profitable one, with wood salvagers working in the great lakes and in other areas. Apparently some logs don't float and there taking out some great wood from the depths of the great lakes that is old growth harvested over a century ago and unsuccesfully floated to the saw mill. There are some interesting speculations about why one log will float and another won't, maybe your stock was carved from one of the ones that wouldn't. __________________ I thoroughly disapprove of duels. I consider them unwise and I know they are dangerous. Also, sinful. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet retired spot and kill him. - Mark Twain

November 7, 2002, 12:58 AM	#9
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	So the answers are... #1. Not a question. #2. I have either strange wood, or strange water. Thats comforting #3 Unanswered #4 Sounds like BLO #5 Unanswered Anyone want to take a stab at proper finish for a Garand stock made from birch, in proper military trim? Tung followed by BLO? And how critical is it to get all the gunk out of the inside nooks and crannies? Will it ooze cosmo if it gets hot if I don't get the inside absolutely dry? Thanks, Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

November 8, 2002, 01:56 AM	#11
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	#3 I've been doing the rough equivalent of this with a different chemical (purple power as opposed to easy-off), and using a bath tub instead of a box/bag combo. Been doing it enough times that I'm beginning to think that there is actually no wood at all and its just a giant petrified glob of prehistoric cosmoline. Well, not really....the outside is obviously wood and is pretty much cosmo-free. This would, however, explain the sinking issue. #5 So birch is pretty much a free-for all as far as finishing goes. OK...does anyone know of a site that has pictures of BLO-only vs. tung/BLO finishes for a birch stock? I'm assuming that linseed-only will be "yellower" and that tung/linseed will be a little darker? Thanks again guys, this place is great. Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

November 5, 2002, 11:50 AM	#1
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Stock refinishing questions 1. Yes, I've done a search 2. OK, really really dumb question time: Isn't wood supposed to float? I ask because I took the cosmoline-encrusted stock off of my M1903, scraped it, wiped it, did the Purple Power degreaser thing for a while (for most of a gallon of purple power, actually), and go and put it in a tub full of hot water, all prepared to weigh it down so it will stay submerged and soak and...clunk. Its sinks straight to the bottom. Mmmmmm-kay. I was sleeping in science class, apparently. 3. How critical is it to get all of the cosmo off of the inside of the stock? I understand you gotta get it off of the exterior before you refinish, and thats mostly done...but the recesses on the inside are still oozing cosmo like a mother, and not getting any better. You gotta understand, the ordies at work said they have never seen a rifle with as much piled on cosmoline as this one, and I imagine they've seen quite a few. The stock was black as coal, and you could not see the rear sight under the layer of cosmo that covered every inch of the rifle...its that thick. Inside? it was like they trowelled in the stuff and then replaced the barrel and receiver. The magazine was filled full with the stuff, like it was a cosmoline jar. 4. Whats the proper finish for a 1903? Straight BLO? 5. Unrelated stock refinishing question...whats the proper finish for a birch M1 garand stock? Tung, followed by BLO? Thanks, Mike (covered in cosmo) __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein Last edited by Coronach; November 6, 2002 at 12:41 PM.

November 5, 2002, 12:45 PM	#2
Romulus Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2001 Location: Kettle Moraine country Posts: 897	Mike, check out this site www.arizonaresponsesystems.com Click on "gunplumber's guide to stock restoration..." He'll tell you how to remove entrapped grease as well as show you a really "neat" way to refinish a military stock. __________________ I knew Thomas Jefferson, he was a friend of mine...Governor Clinton, you're no Thomas Jefferson Ti faccio vedere come muore un italiano

November 5, 2002, 03:00 PM	#3
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Yeah, I'm doing the closest thing I can to his oil/cosmo removal technique. I have almost all of the cosmo off of the exterior (a few patches are still seeping, though...mostly near hardware mounting points)...the interior is still nasty, though. I guess I'll just do it again...thrice can't hurt. Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

November 6, 2002, 02:57 AM	#4
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Bump? Anyone want to tackle questions 2-5? I'm especially interested in the answer to #2...I'm still shocked that wood doesn't float. Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

November 6, 2002, 06:44 AM	#5
Khornet Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2001 Location: NH Posts: 585	Woods have varying densities so maybe you have a piece with density (specific gravity) close to or greater than water, that's all. Or maybe there's something wrong with your water..... __________________ The M1 does MY talking!

November 7, 2002, 02:14 PM	#10
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	1. So you say. 2. I thought so 'til I read this thread. 3. How clean is clean? Do the process I recommended above and see if you think there is any cosmoline left. 4. Definitely straight BLO: http://www.jouster.com/Bulletin/TUNG.htm 5. Read the whole article above. You can basically do anything you want to an M1, especially birch. Birch M1 stocks were not made until after rifle production had stopped. Here are some stock finish examples: http://www.dgrguns.com/parts_for_sale.htm http://www.fulton-armory.com/StockSave.htm http://www.trfindley.com/pgwalbir.html Regards.

November 8, 2002, 02:03 PM	#12
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	Easy Off is legendary in its effectiveness for this task. I guess the foaming sucks the grease out. The NO LYE type will not yellow the stock as will the other kind. I have used degreasers like Purple Power too and Easy Off is definitely more effective, especially if you let it soak into an already wet stock. The advantage of the smaller container is that it takes less water to cover the stock entirely and keep the water as hot as possible. The water needs to be literally _boiling hot_ right off the stove. Try scrubbing several times during the thirty minute immersion period. Another method is to leave the stock in the windshield of your pick up truck on a hot day. As it heats, the grease oozes out onto your dashboard, or paper towels as you prefer. Tung oil and BLO produce no color difference that I know of. Look at the pictures on Findley's site. Compare a bit of each on an interior surface to be sure. Interestingly, Formby's Tung Oil Finish is yellower than MinWax. Minwax contains far more tung oil than Formby's and is preferred. 100% tung oil is a little harder to work with and contains no varnish or thinners like "Tung Oil Finish" does. However, I produced a really beautiful deep gloss finish on a walnut stock by applying 100% tung oil followed by Minwax Tung Oil Finish after the oil dried/soaked in. BLO finishes are less practical and less attractive, IMHO, than tung oil finishes. Tung oil dries faster, seals the wood better and will produce a beautiful gloss if you want. If you prefer a matte finish, just use fine steel wool on the tung oil gloss and wipe with mineral spirits. A final note, your tung oil finish will continue to "cure" and harden for a week or two after it is dry. If you want a gloss finish, rub it with rottenstone or automotive rubbing compound or automotive wax to polish it during this period. Then apply Howard's Feed'n'Wax (orange oil and beeswax) and let it sit in the dark. I am not kidding. Regards.

November 8, 2002, 02:51 PM	#13
Joe Portale Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 1999 Location: Tucson, Arizona Territory Posts: 715	Let me take a wack at this. 1. okay. 2. Not all woods float. Iron wood, some dense teaks and others that slip my mind do not float. 3. Get as much of as you can. I do the Easy Off gag with a twist. Clean as much of the crud off the surface as you can with paint thinner, acetone or alcohol. Spray the wood down with the oven cleaner and let stand for about an hour. Clean it off again. Spray it down really wet with the oven cleaner once more. Wrap the oven cleaner covered stock in two or three layers of paper towels. Using a misting spray wet the whole thing up. By this I mean really damp, not dripping. Then get a big black plastic garbage bag. Put the whole mess in the bag and push out as much air as you can and tie it off good and tight. No toss it in a sunny place for a couple of days. You will be surprised at how much crud will come out of the wood. Next is get a stool, put on some clothes you don't care about, a medium scrub brush, a bucket full of hot water and Tide, put everything in a place you don't mind slobbering up and have at the stock with the brush and Tide. When you are happy with the results, hang the stock to dry SLOWLY in some out of the way place. The wood will look greyish. SOme light sanding and refinishing will handle that. It would be interesting to weigh the stock before and after to see how much cosmolne came out. 4. Linseed oil...but use several coats of Tung oil, you won't be sorry. 5. See #4 __________________ Joe Portale Tucson, Arizona Territory "Even now in heaven there are angles carrying savage weapons". - St Paul

November 8, 2002, 03:10 PM	#14
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	Joe's tips are good I will try that garbage bag trick sometime. I should have mentioned two things that he hit on. 1. If you try to dry the water out of the stock quickly, with heat or sunlight, you will do bad things to the wood and may cause cracks to appear in the stock. 2. Ignore the gray color, it goes away with the first reapplication of oil. If you want to stain the stock, seal the wood first or use a sealer/stain in case you change your mind or don't like the color. You can sand (or wipe) it off. A water based stain will soak into the wood much deeper.

November 12, 2002, 05:21 PM	#15
Kitgun Member Join Date: March 23, 2002 Location: Haslett Mi. USA Posts: 62	Don't know about cleaning up your stock, but walnut won't float.