This just in: Target refuses to support Vietnam Veterans Memorial

Will Beararms · November 15, 2002, 01:00 PM

I just received an e-mail from a close friend and former U. S. Army Ranger Officer that he forwarded from Dick Forrey of the Vietnam Veteran's association. Mr. Forrey approached his local Target requesting spnsorship for an upcoming Spring function at the Wall. Target's response was that Veteran's issues were not in keeping with their focus and that only art, education and social actions were worthy of Target's money.

Y'all think about that the next time you wonder who is to a large part responsible for our ability to enjoy a free market system in the first place. Maybe Target will soon learn to. I am done with them.

BigG · November 15, 2002, 01:15 PM

Sounds like a target rich environment. Sorry!

AZTOY · November 15, 2002, 01:17 PM

E-MAIL THEMhttp://www.targetcorp.com/targetcorp..._general.jhtml

mrsMTN · November 15, 2002, 01:19 PM

I just heard about this via another source. That's not quite the whole story. Apparently, the folks soliciting funds for the memorial approached the local store for a donation. Individual stores cannot donate funds to any cause; all requests must go through their corporate office. No organization gets funds from individual stores, although some may donate goods.
Perhaps the local manager said something he shouldn't have, but it was not in his power to grant funds to that, or any, cause. It's possible that his ego prevented him from admitting that he was not allowed to do something.

braindead0 · November 15, 2002, 01:24 PM

<-- devil's advocate cape on -->

This sounds like extortion, support our project or else.. It's one thing to work actively against something, say if they were supporting the "anti vets association" or some such.

If they supported every organization that came to them looking for handouts, I suspect they'd be bankrupt really soon.

Will Beararms · November 15, 2002, 01:24 PM

Agreed oh Lady of the Mountain. Perhaps the manager could have offered the corporate path to Mr. Forrey.

Blackhawk · November 15, 2002, 01:24 PM

Well said, mrsMTN.

Let's find out if they're guilty before we hang them....

TallPine · November 15, 2002, 01:28 PM

"Be sure of your target"

coati · November 15, 2002, 01:31 PM

Target doesn't seem to do a lot of business with veterans causes, patriotic issues, and the like. Despite the fact that they sponsored events and performances during the Cherry Blossom Festival in DC last spring, with their logo prominently displayed on the music stand in front of the Jefferson Memorial, their stated issues on their web site lean towards what the store manager said.

I hope that Mr. Forrey has more success from other sources for the very worthy and important event. Target, in keeping with other retailers, has sanitized its stores of sporting goods, work clothes, and so on, and already lost many customers.

TallPine · November 15, 2002, 01:35 PM

We have a new Target store and an new WalMart a couple miles apart in Billings.

Seems like the Walmart parking lot is always full and the Target parking lot is always almost empty. FWIW ........

Schuey2002 · November 15, 2002, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Seems like the Walmart parking lot is always full and the Target parking lot is always almost empty.

It's the same way here with my local Kmart and Walmart.This
Walmart probably does more business in a hour than Kmart does all day.........

ojibweindian · November 15, 2002, 01:56 PM

I've not been in a Target store for some time simply because they do not sell ammo.

Will Beararms · November 15, 2002, 02:13 PM

FOLLOW UP: Mr. Forrey did contact Target corporate offices. The response was the same: Veterans affairs are not worthy only arts. education and social actions.

If someone can help me with posting an e-mail, I will be happy to post Mr. Forrey's information and you all can decide for yourselves.

Long Path · November 15, 2002, 02:20 PM

I am really proud of how the Membership here actually takes the time to consider before condemning.

No, I don't know anything about the story, nor Target Corporate's stance on the Memorial.

But before I would condemn them, I would consider: Does Target say they don't consider it worthy of their support, or is it just an individual manager that can't?

How were they asked?

Have I personally made any such contributions? If not, why do I feel that Target should?

Will Beararms · November 15, 2002, 02:31 PM

I give up. Forrey must be a liar. My friend who knows him must be a liar too. I am lying too since I don't have a file posted that is notarized and stamped in blood. It also stands to reason I am also not smart enough to check with my friend whom I knew since a child before posting something that would have potentially harmful implications a corporation and the people that work there.

Suffice it to say, I would not post this without first investigating the circumstances due to its inflamatory nature. For the record and myself and the company I own do give to Veteran's causes but I guess I will need my CPA to post our tax returns befor this will be considered legitimate.

Oleg Volk · November 15, 2002, 02:46 PM

Target is a publically held company, AFAIK. Which means their first obligation is to their owners/shareholders. That they even give to charity is probably a PR expedient. So they owe nothing to any group other than the people who contributed to make the company happen in the first place. The "gimme or else" attitude is misplaced.

Now, if they wish to contribute to causes you dislike but not to those you like, vote with your wallet. I stopped shopping there when they stopped selling ammo.

rolf · November 15, 2002, 03:54 PM

I wonder how many other corporations didn't "donate" to this Memorial.

It's, like, outrageous or something.

Pendragon · November 15, 2002, 04:55 PM

I dont remember Target ever selling sporting good or ammo - and I have gone there for over 10 years.

We WISH we had a target nearby - closest one is almost 20 minutes and the nearby WalMart is crowded and poorly kept up.

Target is in business to make money and they do support some charities.

I think it is important to keep focus when you do have groups and causes that you support.

I seriously seriously doubt that Targets official position is that Veterans charities and causes are "not worth their support".

There is no way that a PR department would ever let that out. Target and such stores aim to be the least controversial that they can be - that means not ticking off veterans and peaceniks, not pissing on the religious or the agnostic.

When you live in a diverse society like ours and aim to get as many customers as possible, you try and keep a low profile.

As for those of us on our side - I have noticed that we - or some among us - tend to regard anyone who is not overtly "for us" as against us and unworthy of our support or patronage.

I do not buy this philosophy - especially being in the circumstances I am in. If Target can save me 10-20% on products I buy regularly, then I will shop there. They have a good Electronics department and my wife and I regularly find neat things for the house. Their stores are always the cleanest and their people always friendly.

I shop there to save money - money that I can then use to make my mortgage or buy some primers or send to the cause of my choosing.

I think some people need to get a better grip on reality.

Will Beararms · November 15, 2002, 05:41 PM

I think you Pendragon need to get a grip on the reality that Bill Gates, Mr. Amazon.com and Michael Dell have benefitted from an economic platform forged by blood and tears of those before us who when called were willing to go. All of us have benefitted. The Brockaws and Jennings of the world are quick to mention the latest Wall Street wizard but slow when it comes to recognizing the men and women who put it all on the line for people they didn't even know.

You can save money where you want to but to you and the rest who are insinuating that Mr. Forrey is a liar you are wrong. I have his actual e-mail and he pursued normal, tactful protocol at all levels before sending out the message that Target does not support veterans.

The man who sent it to me is still involved in the defense complex of our nation and I have been in more than one scrap with him and I can vouch for his integrity knowing he would not be a part of anything that is not above board and verified.

I for one will spend more money to support entities that support causes worthwhile to our freedom and to the honor of those who fought for our freedom but that's just me.

justinh · November 15, 2002, 06:11 PM

Quote:

If they supported every organization that came to them looking for handouts, I suspect they'd be bankrupt really soon.

Exactly. It's asinine to expect them to give money to every worthwhile cause that asks for money.

Will Beararms · November 15, 2002, 06:16 PM

As a business owner, what is asinine is not dedicating a portion of your tax-deductible funds each year for Veterans causes. If you are going to donate and you know it, why not support Veterans in lieu of a "social action" cause.

Hey this is just my $.02 worth.

70-101 · November 15, 2002, 08:10 PM

Very few corporations even care about Veterans issues, especially Vietnam Veterans issues.

Will Beararms · November 15, 2002, 09:18 PM

I am sorry but I always have funds for veterans. Color me idealistic if you will. They paved the way so my wife and I could start from below nothing and have a national company. God gets all the credit but those who were willing to serve and die were in his plan to have mercy on this great nation and they deserve credit. I am the type of sap that walks up to a guy in the parking lot with a veteran's license plate on his car and says: "Thank you for your sacrifice".

Pendragon · November 15, 2002, 09:45 PM

WB:

I do not know your friend and as this is just an internet forum, I really do not know anyone on here.

I believe you about your friend, but you have to acknowledge that stories do get a bit of factual drift when passed on and it is hard to know who has a potential interest in trashing a company and who has an agenda beyond what is stated.

While I do appreciate Vets and all they have done, I confess that they are not always at the front of my mind. I was not in the service (although I tried several times to enlist) and nobody in my immediate family was in either. That said, I am going subtly encourage my son in that direction.

Maybe Target DOES have a problem with vets, maybe they do need a good boycott - but an uncorroborated second hand story on an internet forum is just not good enough evidence to spur me to action.

I would give you the same benefit of the doubt I am giving Target.

November 15, 2002, 01:00 PM	#1
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	This just in: Target refuses to support Vietnam Veterans Memorial I just received an e-mail from a close friend and former U. S. Army Ranger Officer that he forwarded from Dick Forrey of the Vietnam Veteran's association. Mr. Forrey approached his local Target requesting spnsorship for an upcoming Spring function at the Wall. Target's response was that Veteran's issues were not in keeping with their focus and that only art, education and social actions were worthy of Target's money. Y'all think about that the next time you wonder who is to a large part responsible for our ability to enjoy a free market system in the first place. Maybe Target will soon learn to. I am done with them. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

November 15, 2002, 01:15 PM	#2
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,334	Sounds like a target rich environment. Sorry! __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC

November 15, 2002, 01:17 PM	#3
AZTOY Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2002 Location: Fort Wainwright, AK Posts: 188	E-MAIL THEMhttp://www.targetcorp.com/targetcorp..._general.jhtml __________________ Molon labe!

November 15, 2002, 01:19 PM	#4
mrsMTN Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2000 Location: Middlebury, VT USA Posts: 450	I just heard about this via another source. That's not quite the whole story. Apparently, the folks soliciting funds for the memorial approached the local store for a donation. Individual stores cannot donate funds to any cause; all requests must go through their corporate office. No organization gets funds from individual stores, although some may donate goods. Perhaps the local manager said something he shouldn't have, but it was not in his power to grant funds to that, or any, cause. It's possible that his ego prevented him from admitting that he was not allowed to do something. __________________ Do or do not. There is no try. (Yoda)

November 15, 2002, 01:24 PM	#5
braindead0 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2002 Location: Canton, Oh Posts: 896	<-- devil's advocate cape on --> This sounds like extortion, support our project or else.. It's one thing to work actively against something, say if they were supporting the "anti vets association" or some such. If they supported every organization that came to them looking for handouts, I suspect they'd be bankrupt really soon. __________________ DoD# 2223 Meum scapha volitare plenum anguillae

November 15, 2002, 01:24 PM	#7
Blackhawk Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2001 Posts: 5,040	Well said, mrsMTN. Let's find out if they're guilty before we hang them....

November 15, 2002, 01:28 PM	#8
TallPine Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2002 Location: Montana Posts: 528	"Be sure of your target" __________________ "The inherent right in the people to reform their government, I do not deny; and they have another right, and that is to resist unconstitutional laws without overturning the government." --Daniel Webster

November 15, 2002, 01:31 PM	#9
coati Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2001 Location: Just outside the beltway, VA Posts: 288	Target doesn't seem to do a lot of business with veterans causes, patriotic issues, and the like. Despite the fact that they sponsored events and performances during the Cherry Blossom Festival in DC last spring, with their logo prominently displayed on the music stand in front of the Jefferson Memorial, their stated issues on their web site lean towards what the store manager said. I hope that Mr. Forrey has more success from other sources for the very worthy and important event. Target, in keeping with other retailers, has sanitized its stores of sporting goods, work clothes, and so on, and already lost many customers. __________________ coati

November 15, 2002, 01:35 PM	#10
TallPine Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2002 Location: Montana Posts: 528	We have a new Target store and an new WalMart a couple miles apart in Billings. Seems like the Walmart parking lot is always full and the Target parking lot is always almost empty. FWIW ........ __________________ "The inherent right in the people to reform their government, I do not deny; and they have another right, and that is to resist unconstitutional laws without overturning the government." --Daniel Webster

November 15, 2002, 01:56 PM	#12
ojibweindian Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2000 Location: Huntsville, Alabama Posts: 1,198	I've not been in a Target store for some time simply because they do not sell ammo.

November 15, 2002, 02:13 PM	#13
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	FOLLOW UP: Mr. Forrey did contact Target corporate offices. The response was the same: Veterans affairs are not worthy only arts. education and social actions. If someone can help me with posting an e-mail, I will be happy to post Mr. Forrey's information and you all can decide for yourselves. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

November 15, 2002, 02:20 PM	#14
Long Path Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: N. Texas Posts: 5,899	I am really proud of how the Membership here actually takes the time to consider before condemning. No, I don't know anything about the story, nor Target Corporate's stance on the Memorial. But before I would condemn them, I would consider: Does Target say they don't consider it worthy of their support, or is it just an individual manager that can't? How were they asked? Have I personally made any such contributions? If not, why do I feel that Target should? __________________ "Welcome to The Firing Line, a virtual community dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership."T.F.L. Policy Page Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap? ____________

November 15, 2002, 02:31 PM	#15
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	I give up. Forrey must be a liar. My friend who knows him must be a liar too. I am lying too since I don't have a file posted that is notarized and stamped in blood. It also stands to reason I am also not smart enough to check with my friend whom I knew since a child before posting something that would have potentially harmful implications a corporation and the people that work there. Suffice it to say, I would not post this without first investigating the circumstances due to its inflamatory nature. For the record and myself and the company I own do give to Veteran's causes but I guess I will need my CPA to post our tax returns befor this will be considered legitimate. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

November 15, 2002, 02:46 PM	#16
Oleg Volk Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 7,022	Target is a publically held company, AFAIK. Which means their first obligation is to their owners/shareholders. That they even give to charity is probably a PR expedient. So they owe nothing to any group other than the people who contributed to make the company happen in the first place. The "gimme or else" attitude is misplaced. Now, if they wish to contribute to causes you dislike but not to those you like, vote with your wallet. I stopped shopping there when they stopped selling ammo.

November 15, 2002, 03:54 PM	#17
rolf Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 2002 Posts: 104	I wonder how many other corporations didn't "donate" to this Memorial. It's, like, outrageous or something.

November 15, 2002, 04:55 PM	#18
Pendragon Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2001 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 1,153	I dont remember Target ever selling sporting good or ammo - and I have gone there for over 10 years. We WISH we had a target nearby - closest one is almost 20 minutes and the nearby WalMart is crowded and poorly kept up. Target is in business to make money and they do support some charities. I think it is important to keep focus when you do have groups and causes that you support. I seriously seriously doubt that Targets official position is that Veterans charities and causes are "not worth their support". There is no way that a PR department would ever let that out. Target and such stores aim to be the least controversial that they can be - that means not ticking off veterans and peaceniks, not pissing on the religious or the agnostic. When you live in a diverse society like ours and aim to get as many customers as possible, you try and keep a low profile. As for those of us on our side - I have noticed that we - or some among us - tend to regard anyone who is not overtly "for us" as against us and unworthy of our support or patronage. I do not buy this philosophy - especially being in the circumstances I am in. If Target can save me 10-20% on products I buy regularly, then I will shop there. They have a good Electronics department and my wife and I regularly find neat things for the house. Their stores are always the cleanest and their people always friendly. I shop there to save money - money that I can then use to make my mortgage or buy some primers or send to the cause of my choosing. I think some people need to get a better grip on reality.

November 15, 2002, 05:41 PM	#19
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	I think you Pendragon need to get a grip on the reality that Bill Gates, Mr. Amazon.com and Michael Dell have benefitted from an economic platform forged by blood and tears of those before us who when called were willing to go. All of us have benefitted. The Brockaws and Jennings of the world are quick to mention the latest Wall Street wizard but slow when it comes to recognizing the men and women who put it all on the line for people they didn't even know. You can save money where you want to but to you and the rest who are insinuating that Mr. Forrey is a liar you are wrong. I have his actual e-mail and he pursued normal, tactful protocol at all levels before sending out the message that Target does not support veterans. The man who sent it to me is still involved in the defense complex of our nation and I have been in more than one scrap with him and I can vouch for his integrity knowing he would not be a part of anything that is not above board and verified. I for one will spend more money to support entities that support causes worthwhile to our freedom and to the honor of those who fought for our freedom but that's just me. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

November 15, 2002, 06:16 PM	#21
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	As a business owner, what is asinine is not dedicating a portion of your tax-deductible funds each year for Veterans causes. If you are going to donate and you know it, why not support Veterans in lieu of a "social action" cause. Hey this is just my $.02 worth. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

November 15, 2002, 08:10 PM	#22
70-101 Junior member Join Date: August 2, 2002 Location: virginia Posts: 706	Very few corporations even care about Veterans issues, especially Vietnam Veterans issues.

November 15, 2002, 09:18 PM	#23
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	I am sorry but I always have funds for veterans. Color me idealistic if you will. They paved the way so my wife and I could start from below nothing and have a national company. God gets all the credit but those who were willing to serve and die were in his plan to have mercy on this great nation and they deserve credit. I am the type of sap that walks up to a guy in the parking lot with a veteran's license plate on his car and says: "Thank you for your sacrifice". __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

November 15, 2002, 09:45 PM	#24
Pendragon Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2001 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 1,153	WB: I do not know your friend and as this is just an internet forum, I really do not know anyone on here. I believe you about your friend, but you have to acknowledge that stories do get a bit of factual drift when passed on and it is hard to know who has a potential interest in trashing a company and who has an agenda beyond what is stated. While I do appreciate Vets and all they have done, I confess that they are not always at the front of my mind. I was not in the service (although I tried several times to enlist) and nobody in my immediate family was in either. That said, I am going subtly encourage my son in that direction. Maybe Target DOES have a problem with vets, maybe they do need a good boycott - but an uncorroborated second hand story on an internet forum is just not good enough evidence to spur me to action. I would give you the same benefit of the doubt I am giving Target.