SKS going auto?

[opusxx]

I purchased an norinco SKS today. Used but excellent physical condition. Anyway, the rifle came w/ some chinese surplus ammo (copper cased) on strippers. When i went to test the gun it shot twice very quickly and then failed to feed a round. the nose of the next round got caught underneath the chamber opening and i had to pull the bolt back, push the round down and release the bolt again. I fired two more in rapid succession and it happened again. same fix until the 10 rd's i had loaded were gone. My freind went to shoot the gun and got off three rds, jam, fix then...
BRRRUUUPPPPPP!
7 rounds very fast.
he said he thought the gun went auto. Its got a folding stock and was being shot from the hip so I told him it may have just been the recoil causeing him to inadvertantly pull the trigger. The guy I bought the gun from said it slam fired once w/ the same ammo.
What can I do? Is there anything to increase the feed reliability? The gun is equiped w/ a 20 rd. fixed mag now. should I put a original 10 rd. fixed on it?

[Hammy]

MAKING SURE THAT THE GUN IS UNLOADED!!!!!!!!! First check to make sure that noone has turned it into a full auto version. You can do this by holding the trigger and cycling the bolt. If the you hear the firing pin click each time you cycle the bolt then you have a major problem on tour hands!!!!!! It should only fire once for each pull of the trigger and not each time the bolt is pulled back and released while constantly holding the trigger back. I own several SKS's and very seldom have a problem with a round not feeding properly. Usually, the only ammo that gives me a problem are hollow points.

[opusxx]

I did that and the there was no click when manually cycling the bolt with the trigger depressed.

[TAckerman]

This is a common problem with the SKS and there have been several law suits ranging from minor injuries to death as a result of the SKS going into full auto.

So many problems in fact that a lawyer from Atlanta years ago was buying back know defective SKS's for $250.00 in Shotgun News to use in representing victims of this faulty designed rifle.

I sold him mine as it had the same problem and he eneded up destroying it after it's problems were documentedd.

Make no mistake! This is a major problem. All it takes is for someone to be standing over the gun in a bench rest, drop the bolt, the gun goes into full auto and jumps out of the rest landing on it's butt with the muzzle pointing at someone and you have the recipe for a major tragedy. THIS HAS HAPPENED AND SOMEONE DIED FROM A SHOT THROUGH THE EYE!!!!

Get rid of the gun by destroying it! You'll sleep better.

ACK

[Mike Irwin]

Another test...

Hold the trigger down, hold the bolt back all the way, and then let it slam home. If the hammer drops, you've got a defective trigger group.

What most likely is happening, though, is that either the firing pin is jamming part way out due to rust, a build up of grease or crud, or the bolt has been taken apart and reassmebled incorrectly.

Another possibility is that the firing pin & channel have been lubricated with some type of "wonder lube." The SKS has an inertia firing pin, meaning that if it slams forward too quickly due to extremely low friction from a wonder lube, it can go auto on you.

[animal]

Good test by Mike I - do it. I had this happen to me on a SKS. In my case, some nimrod home-gunsmith wunderkind had tried to lighten the trigger pull, screwed up, and dumped the gun off on me. First time I shot it was quite a suprise : double-fire, double-fire, Brrrraaaaap ! Anyway, replacing the sear and trigger bar cured problem. Old parts were thrown into a catfish pond. It also helped to curse out the guy who sold it to me. (and threaten to call ATF hee hee hee) HEY! ... There's no "smile" for abject FEAR!
Take it to a good gunsmith that is experienced with Chicom P.O.S. rifles. The steel in these things is typically very soft and you can easily bend the trigger group housing when you punch out the pins. I made a couple of specialty tools to keep from collapsing the housing while pressing out the pins.

TAckerman (Flame on): Yeah, help the antis in their lawsuit efforts (and remove an evil SKS from circulation) when you may be able to fix it for $12.00 in parts plus labor.(Flame off)

Good Luck.

[opusxx]

the hammer did drop.
do i need to soak the bolt and carrier in carb cleaner overnight then scrub and lube or should i replace the trigger group?

[Eric of IN]

opusxx,
Try the cleaning method, take it to the range and try it. If it still has the problem then take it t a gunsmith.

TAckerman,
What animal said only with more %$*(#!% interjected.
Eric


------------------
Formerly Puddle Pirate.
Teach a kid to shoot.
It annoys the antis.

[Patrick Graham]

Hmmm... This is interesting. I've had my Russian sks slam fire on American ammo. It was because of that massive firing pin coasting to a stop on a softer primer than it was designed for. It's 100% with russian or european 7.62x39 but you can see a tiny firing pin dent in the last round chambered. I've seen lots of guys shooting chinese sks's at the range. There were several instances of what I thought were slam fires. Looks like that may have been due to a trigger group problem or cruddy bolt/firing pin. Sheesh.. I hope we haven't given the anti's a foot in the door with this gun.

[Bdog5150]

What happens is that the firing pin gets a burr in it from dry fire or other abuse and will stick in the out position. Clean the fire control group well and try it again (especially if the hammer dropped when cycling the bolt.) If that doesn't work, get a new firing pin. These guns are NOT crap, to those of you bashing them. They are reliable (if maintained)and accurate (contrary to popular belief). They are made to last a lifetime, but do have some design flaws just like any old gun. You can't expect it to have a firing pin safety as old as it is.

[El Lobo]

One other possibility comes to mind concerning slam-fires. Especially with new SKS rifles, the grease in the bolt doesn't allow the firing pin to retract quickly enough when the bolt closes on the round being chambered. The result is a full-auto episode! You would need to strip down the bolt and clean the 'gunk' out, or if you're a klutz like me, have a gunsmith do it.

[weegee]

Bunch of good advice here...I bought a Chinese SKS around '94, and the dealer presented me with a sheet explaining how to test it at the range to find out if it was gonna go full auto! (Gee, thanks a lot!)

Anyway, just load only two rounds when you're testing it. It shortens the strings!

[Target Shooter]

If your gun is in it's original configuration (no one messed with it and did a home made conversion to full auto, or shaved the sear to lighten the trigger pull) then I would say the bolt is full of grease and the firing pin is stuck.
I clean mine out with WD-40. Spray WD-40 (with the 5" red nozzle attached) directly into the firing pin hole on the face of the bolt. Shake the bolt back-n-forth for awhile then spary some more WD-40 into it.
Do this several times until the firing pin "rattles" freely back-n-forth with a little shake of the bolt.
Be sure to clean the bolt every time you shoot your rifle to make sure the firing pin doesn't get stuck or gunked up with oil and carbon.
TS

[Mike Irwin]

ACK! No WD-40 around guns!

WD-40 can cause the very same problem you're trying to prevent by cleaning out the firing pin channel. Over time it will decay into a nasty, gummy mess with the consistency of Weldwood contact cement, and be about as effective at bonding the firing pin into the firing pin channel.

The bolt should be soaked in a good degreaser to allow anything time to desolve. If need be, gasoline can be substituted.

If that fails to solve the problem, the bolt must be disassembled.

[Mike Irwin]

OpusXX,

Do you mean that when you tried the test I suggested, holding the trigger back and letting the bolt slam home, that the hammer dropped?

If so, the gun must be taken to a gunsmith immediately, before it is fired again!

If this in fact happened, it means that there is a potentially serious problem with the trigger group!

[Rome]

When I purchased my SKS it, too, was a used model. I had read about the "slam fire" scenario, however, and decided to inspect everything before I loaded any ammo. The gun turned out to be immaculate and had been well cared for. The first time I shot at the range produced nothing but perfect results. That evening I decided to do a complete teardown/cleaning, however, and discovered that while the previous owner had apparently cleaned everything, he had never cleaned the firing pin block. My pin could be heard to "clink" in the block as required, but I decided to dissasemble the block and discovered that he had never cleaned the pin as it was very dirty although still worked properly. I noted the detent difference between the top and bottom before compete disassembly and then scubbed the pin and the block with Hoppes and then very lightly oiled it making it perfect once again. To get the pin out requires a little work and the proper size drift but should be REQUIRED of anyone who owns an SKS.

The proper way to determine if you SKS will fire properly, especially after a cleaning, is to install only **one** round in the magazine while at the range, making sure the gun is supported and pointing down range, and then and only then releasing the bolt. If it fires, then you've got a stuck, dirty, damaged, in improperly installed firing pin. Never place more than one round in this rifle until you've "tested" it this way. And never, never install any ammo in an SKS unless you are anticipating shooting it. The last thing anyone needs is a slam fire in their home, especially with mulitiple rounds in it.
I very much like this rifle and have read everything there is to read about it. In your case OpusXX, (great cigar by the way but way overpriced!) I'd consider a complete teardown, inspection and cleaning of the firing pin and block. If you suspect the trigger group has been "adjusted", then simply replace it. They are inexpensive. You can even purchase one and have a Smith "clean it up" for you and then you'd be guaranteed an original trigger which works as designed. The total cost for this is cheap and will provide you with an accurate,reliable and fun to shoot weapon.

Finally, I'd throw all of the Chinese ammo out!!! I'm talking about that stuff that has the lead in the tip and looks like someone hand-made it. The stuff is worthless and dangerous looking. As Patrick says stick with Wolf Russian ammo. cheaperthandirt.com has it for around .10 per round. It is reliable and works perfectly with the SKS. I've shot over 1000 rounds with mine without a hiccup.
The last thing I'd do is retire the weapon. There are virtually skads of parts on the market and the SKS is easliy repaired and tuned up. Eventually the market will shrink on this weapon so having a few spares on hand will guarantee a lifetime of service.

For What It's Worth,
Rome

[This message has been edited by Rome (edited May 21, 2000).]

[Target Shooter]

Nothing wrong with WD-40.
I understand there are better products on the market but it has worked for me for the last 25 years.
I didn't explain to fill the bolt with WD-40 and let it set for several years, I said to spray it in the bolt until it dissolves the grease and the firing pin rattles back-n-forth. This only takes about 20 minutes to do.
You then shake out the excess WD-40 and you're fine.
Like I stated earlier, I've been using WD-40 to wipe my guns down for almost 3 decades and my dad has been using it even long than that. Never had a rusted gun or a gummed up gun.
Use what you like but don't discredit what has been working for many decades.
TS

[Correia]

A problem similar to this happened with a local guy a few years ago, only it happened to him in his garage. He used the stripper clip to load, then pulled back the bolt and let it go, bbbrrrrrpppp, right across the floor, wall and roof of his garage. Lucky nobody got hurt.

Our local gunsmith looked at it, (the guy had just bought it, and never shot it), the firing pin was sticking out, and the channel was just gunked up with cosmoline and grit, forcing it out.

There are a lot of safety lessons to be learned from this episode.

[animal]

WD-40 : I'll have to agree with Mike I on this one. I'll bet Target Shooter hassn't noticed any problems because he cleans his guns frequently and thereby "refreshes" the WD-40 - keeping it from gunking up. The problem comes into play when a gun is stored for a long time or is not cleaned regularly. The WD-40 can dry into a sticky mess. Someone who uses his guns frequently and cleans them regularly will never have a problem.
Personally, I like to use stuff that is storage-friendly.

[Target Shooter]

animal,
Most of my guns don't collect moss, although some don't see much range time.
My suggestion in the use of WD-40 was only to dissolve the grease and free the firing pin. I don't use it for lubing anything on my guns.
About every 6 months or so I open the safe, spray a little WD-40 or Break Free on a cloth rag, remove all my guns then run the rag over them and set them back in the safe.
This ensures a rust free gun for years.
Sorry for the confusion on the use of WD-40.
I don't spray my guns down with it to lube them up, because there are much better products that supply superior lubricity.
TS

[opusxx]

well I soaked the bolt and carrier for 8 hours in carb cleaner then scrubbed it with military grade bore solvent then a light coat of clp. rest of the gun was cleaned as well. 20 rd. fixed mag was switched w/ a 10 rd . fixed from my other SKS.
This afternoon I took it out (and I do mean out) in the country for a test. this is how it went.
loaded w/ stripper clip
let bolt go home
BANG (sheeee-it!)
gun still on safe? yup
pull trigger.
BANG
pull trigger
BRRRAAAAPPPPPPP!!!!!!!
SHEEEEEEEIT????
load another 10.
rode bolt home
pull trigger BBBBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAPPPPPPP!!!!!
disassembled completly and seperated trigger group w/ a 1 oz slug courtosy of remington and mossburg.
needless to say feed problem was fixed.

[4V50 Gary]

When the first lawsuit hit, I think there was a recall on SKS imported by a particular corp. These SKS were either refitted with a newer firing pin or with a spring loaded firing pin. If I'm mistaken on this, somebody please correct me.

On the matter of WD-40, you can ask Remington how they feel about it. Remington was sued for millons over a gun which had been "cleaned" with WD-40. The WD-40 left a film which was never cleaned off and eventually, it developed into a thick enough layer to defeat the safety. The shooter had the muzzle pointed at his foot when the gun discharged. Remington examined the gun, and tried to disassemble it. They had to clamp in in a vise and use two of their heaviest or strongest employees to wrench the receiver free from the stock. Remember, we're talking years of WD-40 now. Well, they introduced that as evidence and even bought a pick-up truck of the same make, rented a crane to lift the cab to the level of the court house window, as demonstrative evidence of the negligence. Well, the jury held for the plaintiff and now you know why Remington doesn't recommend WD-40. I would not use WD-40 on firearms.

[Mike Irwin]

Target,

I know you're not saying to hose the firing pin down, but unfortunatly, unless you then disassmeble the bolt, WD-40 will remain in the bolt and firing pin channel and over time (as little as 6 months in my experience, which also stretches back better than 25 years now), it will begin to decay and harden, and boom (potentially literally!) you've got a big problem.

Over the years I've disassembled a lot of small mechanical items treated with WD-40, from a squirt to a bath, and the result is invariably the same. One thoroughly gunked up part.

Simply put, WD-40 is designed to be a penetrating oil. Once the carrier solvent evaporates (1 to 10 minutes, normally), those oils start to slowly chemically decay to the point where they can actually become a varnish that is almost impossible to remove.

Interestingly enough, WD-40 oil, once it begins to decay, may become very slightly hygroscopic, meaning that it can actually cause rust. Not a good thing.

There are a number of tasks that WD-40 is good at. Gun care isn't one of them as far as I'm concerned.

If you're interested in a very good substitute, try Birchwood-Casey's Sheath. I've used it for years, and couldn't be happier with it.

[Rome]

Opus XX,

Just a couple of questions.

I posted a couple of recommendation for your SKS. First I suggested that you place only one shell in the weapon at a time until you were able to determine if the gun would slam fire. It sounds to me like you filled the magazine with a stripper clip. Why would you do that? Second, your post didn't indicate anything about examining the firing pin and block. Did you remove it and check it as I suggested? If the pin was "floating" in the block as I indicated, it could not go into auto as you described. And, I also suggested that you actually dissasemble the pin from the block and clean everything. Did you do that?

The SKS is probably the simplist and most rugged rifle I've handled for what it does. It sounds like you destroyed it before you tried some simple and safe remedies.

Let us know.

Rome

[opusxx]

entire bolt was disasembled and cleaned/lubed.
trigger group was cleaned/ lubed.
weapon was loaded w/ single round 3 times and fired, ejected and held bolt open.
so i said to myself "self, it's fixed".
I only destroyed the trigger group. I am a LEO and do not need to be in possesion of any full-auto parts.
i plan on picking up a new group at the next show.