beware Leupold Gilmore Red Dot vs. Recoil

uglymofo · August 1, 2001, 03:38 AM

I just recently bought a DE XIX and Leupold Gilmore LG-35. The LG-35 is mounted as the Magnum Research website shows, with 2 scope rings that are Leupold OEM. The mounting method insinuated by this photo is incorrect; I have been in direct contact with the Magnum Research gunsmiths and the Leupold product support technicians. They both agree the mounts are not strong enough to avoid damaging the LG-35. Magnum Research has discontinued LG-35 sales; Leupold pretty much guarantees problems if any Leupold Gilmore Red Dot is mounted on a DE XIX (any caliber) if it is mounted with only THREE scope rings. They did not exclude problems with the DE XIX .357. They suggest mounting the Red Dot scopes with 4 scope rings, available from only Leupold of course, at a cost of $20 plus $20 S & H. Additionally, a scope base from B-Square must be purchased (product # 42907[blue] or 42908[SS]) to allow mounting the LG series to a DE XIX of any caliber. The cost for the B-Square mount is minimally $65.

Obviously, the poor support from Leupold for their obvious lack of quality control is infuriating for those who have experienced problems, and just as financially annoying to all LG scope users. The lack of support from Leupold and the additional cost of $105 is something that must be weighed heavily for all those DE owners (including Mark I, II, and VII owners) if they are considering the purchase of a Leupold product. Leupold calls the problem an "inconvenience"!! See their response below.

>From: Brett Nelson <[email protected]>

>To: "'[email protected]'" <[email protected]>

>Subject: Leupold

>Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:25:29 -0700

>

>Unfortunately we don't have any 'recall' program. We don't make a base for

>the DE 50 AE. We recommend the three to four rings because the amount of

>recoil the caliber has. You don't have to use three to four rings, but the

>strength will be greatly increased and you won't have a problem, where-as

>if

>you use two rings you will probably have a problem. Sorry for the

>inconvenience!

>

>Brett Nelson

>Leupold Product Specialist

>[email protected]

>www.leupold.com

>

>Leupold Customer Service

>Product Specialist Group

>Phone (503) 526-1400

doody · August 2, 2001, 11:33 AM

Among rifleshooters, Leupold has a very good reputation for warranty service. Sorry to hear of your problems. Have you tried moving up the customer service chain?

uglymofo · August 2, 2001, 04:17 PM

No, the Leupold “customer service rep” pretty much said it's my problem.

The Magnum Research website lists this scope, and offers it as compatable with the 2 rings supplied by Leupold. A Magnum Research gunsmith said that the website was outdated, and that they were working on removing the LG-35 as a sales item on the site. Purchase orders sent to MR for the LG's are returned unfilled and the reasons are stated truthfully, according to the 'smith I spoke to. Magnum Research says that Leupold has agreed to repair any LG submitted to MR for repairs because of malfunctions due to the mounting configuration incorrectly prescribed by Leupold. However, your scope must be submitted through MR to get this consideration. That seems to me to be an industry-private admission of liability.

Leupold now says a 3 to 4 ring mount is required to guarantee proper stability, they neither furnish it, nor will they provide it retroactively. They have acknowledged that the website at Magnum Research was a mistake based on Leupold's marketing and sales information. Leupold obviously knows about this problem, that the fault was theirs, and that they could stop/reduce the number of incidents with an advisory on their website and the Gilmore website (their partner) but they won't post one. They also refuse to furnish the extra rings to DE owners as a free correction/uprade, and more than that, they want $10/ring and $20 S&H. $20 S&H?? That's about as big a pile of [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] as I want to deal with from any company.

I bought my LG after much research (but not enough) on the web--no where on the web did I find any advisory warning that a 2-ring mount on a Desert Eagle is insufficient. Neither Leupold nor MG have a warning anywhere on their sites, though they know about the problems. Sounds kind of like a Bridgestone-Firestone marketing strategy doesn't it?

My personal gripe is that Leupold has not posted a warning about this. They have a warning for Ruger 44 shooters and Casull shooters. (I know, you're gonna ask, what, that exempts you DE shooters??--but my response is, revolver recoil is much stiffer AND the DE 44 has been out for a lot of years. Why did they market it with 2 rings to MR, and now that it's an industry acknowledged problem, keep quiet? Hell, I can afford the lousy $100--what DE shooter can't. We know going in that this gun is expensive to shoot.) I'm just lucky I haven't fired my DE with the scope mounted yet--I got lucky and took it to the range with open sights to try it on the 25 yard line and found another DE shooter who told me of a "rumor" he'd heard.

On principle, it’s aggravating that I have to spend >$100 to set this right. As for this post, I'm just trying to warn others about the considerations they should take if they're gonna use a Leupold product.

uglymofo · August 15, 2001, 12:28 AM

Sorry for the length of this thread. I tried to replace my previous input with a cut and paste of this input, but I was prohibited, so I had to install it here:

This is a summary of the final resolution to the problem I've had with Leupold "Customer Service". After two emails and two calls to their support line, I gave up. They refuse to even research the problem enough to offer suggestions. They say the LG series must be mounted on all guns with 4 rings, and that they made a mistake in marketing them for the Desert Eagles. However, those shooters who have them will have to acquire 2 more rings through Gilmoresports at a price of $40 dollars ($20 + $20 S&H). Leupold has no idea how to adapt the Desert Eagles to accept 4 rings. They suggest having a gunsmith cut two slots and replate (nickel) the weapon.
Magnum Research suggests a scope rail made by B-Square. It's available for about $70 (including S&H) on the 'net. It will need some modification. The LG series scope is not long enough to allow the use of all 4 rings in the B-Square OEM slots. You'll have to cut two more slots yourself. I did it with a Dremel. I'm out another $123 for this scope set up.

Leupold's position on this, throughout the 4 correspondences, was, "we're sorry. We have no suggestions. Sorry for the inconvenience".

Rinspeed · August 19, 2001, 08:36 PM

uglymofo, I don't want this to sound like a
flame but why are you blaming this problem on
Leupold and not on Magnum Research. I'm sure
if you would have checked with Leupold before
you purchased the LG-35 they would have set
you straight. Leupold makes some of the best
optics available and coming from someone who
has been to their facilities they run a first
rate operation. Jeff

uglymofo · August 21, 2001, 02:58 PM

Jeffg,

I don't think you read my posts in their entirety. Not that I blame you; this is an awfully long thread.

Leupold Prod Support maintains their stance: they admit that they made a mistake and marketed the LG series as compatable with all calibers and all manufacturers as long as the two supplied OEM scope mounts were used. This was a result of a complete lack of quality control and testing. And there's no doubt about it, I agree with them only on that point.

The Leupold Product Support techs *AGREE* with Magnum Research's position--this was a big Leupold marketing gaff, but no one at Leupold I talked to has the power to get a warning put on their website. I checked the entire Leupold site for warnings about compatability problems with DE's before I bought; there are only advisories about Ruger revolvers, not autos. To recap, one of the techs said that even the .357 DE's generated problems. THAT certainly is omitted from the Leupold website advisories.

After complaints started to come in, Leupold concurred that the LG scopes needed additional rings to cure the problems they had holding zeroes.

However, that advice is the extent of their "support". They will not retroactively provide the extra rings nor scope base. Hell, after admitting the problem, Leupold's position is, "we know about the problem"--but there will be no corrective service offered.

They've basically turned complaining users away, much like an auto-dealership would--if you continue to waste their time, sooner or later, the customer will give up. Us DE owners have to face the fact: there aren't that many of us using LG scopes, so they're bound to get away with their approach.

As for a factory tour, my attitude on tours is this--you're gonna see them at their Sunday best. Do you really expect to see anything less than that on a factory tour?

August 1, 2001, 03:38 AM	#1
uglymofo Member Join Date: August 1, 2001 Posts: 72	beware Leupold Gilmore Red Dot vs. Recoil I just recently bought a DE XIX and Leupold Gilmore LG-35. The LG-35 is mounted as the Magnum Research website shows, with 2 scope rings that are Leupold OEM. The mounting method insinuated by this photo is incorrect; I have been in direct contact with the Magnum Research gunsmiths and the Leupold product support technicians. They both agree the mounts are not strong enough to avoid damaging the LG-35. Magnum Research has discontinued LG-35 sales; Leupold pretty much guarantees problems if any Leupold Gilmore Red Dot is mounted on a DE XIX (any caliber) if it is mounted with only THREE scope rings. They did not exclude problems with the DE XIX .357. They suggest mounting the Red Dot scopes with 4 scope rings, available from only Leupold of course, at a cost of $20 plus $20 S & H. Additionally, a scope base from B-Square must be purchased (product # 42907[blue] or 42908[SS]) to allow mounting the LG series to a DE XIX of any caliber. The cost for the B-Square mount is minimally $65. Obviously, the poor support from Leupold for their obvious lack of quality control is infuriating for those who have experienced problems, and just as financially annoying to all LG scope users. The lack of support from Leupold and the additional cost of $105 is something that must be weighed heavily for all those DE owners (including Mark I, II, and VII owners) if they are considering the purchase of a Leupold product. Leupold calls the problem an "inconvenience"!! See their response below. >From: Brett Nelson <[email protected]> >To: "'[email protected]'" <[email protected]> >Subject: Leupold >Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:25:29 -0700 > >Unfortunately we don't have any 'recall' program. We don't make a base for >the DE 50 AE. We recommend the three to four rings because the amount of >recoil the caliber has. You don't have to use three to four rings, but the >strength will be greatly increased and you won't have a problem, where-as >if >you use two rings you will probably have a problem. Sorry for the >inconvenience! > >Brett Nelson >Leupold Product Specialist >[email protected] >www.leupold.com > >Leupold Customer Service >Product Specialist Group >Phone (503) 526-1400

August 2, 2001, 11:33 AM	#2
doody Junior Member Join Date: August 2, 2001 Posts: 3	beware Leupold Gilmore Red Dot vs. Recoil Among rifleshooters, Leupold has a very good reputation for warranty service. Sorry to hear of your problems. Have you tried moving up the customer service chain?

August 21, 2001, 02:58 PM	#6
uglymofo Member Join Date: August 1, 2001 Posts: 72	Jeffg, I don't think you read my posts in their entirety. Not that I blame you; this is an awfully long thread. Leupold Prod Support maintains their stance: they admit that they made a mistake and marketed the LG series as compatable with all calibers and all manufacturers as long as the two supplied OEM scope mounts were used. This was a result of a complete lack of quality control and testing. And there's no doubt about it, I agree with them only on that point. The Leupold Product Support techs AGREE with Magnum Research's position--this was a big Leupold marketing gaff, but no one at Leupold I talked to has the power to get a warning put on their website. I checked the entire Leupold site for warnings about compatability problems with DE's before I bought; there are only advisories about Ruger revolvers, not autos. To recap, one of the techs said that even the .357 DE's generated problems. THAT certainly is omitted from the Leupold website advisories. After complaints started to come in, Leupold concurred that the LG scopes needed additional rings to cure the problems they had holding zeroes. However, that advice is the extent of their "support". They will not retroactively provide the extra rings nor scope base. Hell, after admitting the problem, Leupold's position is, "we know about the problem"--but there will be no corrective service offered. They've basically turned complaining users away, much like an auto-dealership would--if you continue to waste their time, sooner or later, the customer will give up. Us DE owners have to face the fact: there aren't that many of us using LG scopes, so they're bound to get away with their approach. As for a factory tour, my attitude on tours is this--you're gonna see them at their Sunday best. Do you really expect to see anything less than that on a factory tour? Last edited by uglymofo; August 23, 2001 at 08:15 AM.

August 2, 2001, 04:17 PM	#3
uglymofo Member Join Date: August 1, 2001 Posts: 72	No, the Leupold “customer service rep” pretty much said it's my problem. The Magnum Research website lists this scope, and offers it as compatable with the 2 rings supplied by Leupold. A Magnum Research gunsmith said that the website was outdated, and that they were working on removing the LG-35 as a sales item on the site. Purchase orders sent to MR for the LG's are returned unfilled and the reasons are stated truthfully, according to the 'smith I spoke to. Magnum Research says that Leupold has agreed to repair any LG submitted to MR for repairs because of malfunctions due to the mounting configuration incorrectly prescribed by Leupold. However, your scope must be submitted through MR to get this consideration. That seems to me to be an industry-private admission of liability. Leupold now says a 3 to 4 ring mount is required to guarantee proper stability, they neither furnish it, nor will they provide it retroactively. They have acknowledged that the website at Magnum Research was a mistake based on Leupold's marketing and sales information. Leupold obviously knows about this problem, that the fault was theirs, and that they could stop/reduce the number of incidents with an advisory on their website and the Gilmore website (their partner) but they won't post one. They also refuse to furnish the extra rings to DE owners as a free correction/uprade, and more than that, they want $10/ring and $20 S&H. $20 S&H?? That's about as big a pile of [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] as I want to deal with from any company. I bought my LG after much research (but not enough) on the web--no where on the web did I find any advisory warning that a 2-ring mount on a Desert Eagle is insufficient. Neither Leupold nor MG have a warning anywhere on their sites, though they know about the problems. Sounds kind of like a Bridgestone-Firestone marketing strategy doesn't it? My personal gripe is that Leupold has not posted a warning about this. They have a warning for Ruger 44 shooters and Casull shooters. (I know, you're gonna ask, what, that exempts you DE shooters??--but my response is, revolver recoil is much stiffer AND the DE 44 has been out for a lot of years. Why did they market it with 2 rings to MR, and now that it's an industry acknowledged problem, keep quiet? Hell, I can afford the lousy $100--what DE shooter can't. We know going in that this gun is expensive to shoot.) I'm just lucky I haven't fired my DE with the scope mounted yet--I got lucky and took it to the range with open sights to try it on the 25 yard line and found another DE shooter who told me of a "rumor" he'd heard. On principle, it’s aggravating that I have to spend >$100 to set this right. As for this post, I'm just trying to warn others about the considerations they should take if they're gonna use a Leupold product.

August 15, 2001, 12:28 AM	#4
uglymofo Member Join Date: August 1, 2001 Posts: 72	Sorry for the length of this thread. I tried to replace my previous input with a cut and paste of this input, but I was prohibited, so I had to install it here: This is a summary of the final resolution to the problem I've had with Leupold "Customer Service". After two emails and two calls to their support line, I gave up. They refuse to even research the problem enough to offer suggestions. They say the LG series must be mounted on all guns with 4 rings, and that they made a mistake in marketing them for the Desert Eagles. However, those shooters who have them will have to acquire 2 more rings through Gilmoresports at a price of $40 dollars ($20 + $20 S&H). Leupold has no idea how to adapt the Desert Eagles to accept 4 rings. They suggest having a gunsmith cut two slots and replate (nickel) the weapon. Magnum Research suggests a scope rail made by B-Square. It's available for about $70 (including S&H) on the 'net. It will need some modification. The LG series scope is not long enough to allow the use of all 4 rings in the B-Square OEM slots. You'll have to cut two more slots yourself. I did it with a Dremel. I'm out another $123 for this scope set up. Leupold's position on this, throughout the 4 correspondences, was, "we're sorry. We have no suggestions. Sorry for the inconvenience".

August 19, 2001, 08:36 PM	#5
Rinspeed Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2000 Posts: 1,505	uglymofo, I don't want this to sound like a flame but why are you blaming this problem on Leupold and not on Magnum Research. I'm sure if you would have checked with Leupold before you purchased the LG-35 they would have set you straight. Leupold makes some of the best optics available and coming from someone who has been to their facilities they run a first rate operation. Jeff