Temptation!

**Aguila Blanca** · March 31, 2024, 03:40 PM

I found a place selling 1911 barrels chambered for 7.62x25 Tokarev.

Never thought about that as a possibility, never knew such a thing might be possible, let alone available. Now that I know it exists -- I want one. Of course, I don't have anything else that fires that cartridge, and I don't reload for it. There is no practical reason under the sun to buy the barrel -- but I still want one.

Somebody talk me down. PLEASE.

Recycled bullet · March 31, 2024, 04:05 PM

Are they an easy drop-in fit that requires no fitting and all you'd have to do is get magazines and ammunition?

**JohnKSa** · March 31, 2024, 04:06 PM

Will 7.62x25 even fit into a 1911 magazine? I was looking at a conversion barrel for a 10mm Glock some time back and found that the OAL of the 7.62x25 was too long for the mags.

74A95 · March 31, 2024, 04:13 PM

see this:

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...-tokarev/99440

TunnelRat · March 31, 2024, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

Will 7.62x25 even fit into a 1911 magazine? I was looking at a conversion barrel for a 10mm Glock some time back and found that the OAL of the 7.62x25 was too long for the mags.

This was my question as well.

**Aguila Blanca** · March 31, 2024, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

Will 7.62x25 even fit into a 1911 magazine? I was looking at a conversion barrel for a 10mm Glock some time back and found that the OAL of the 7.62x25 was too long for the mags.

The spec for .45 ACP COL is 1.275". Spec for 7.62x45 Tokarev is 1.386" with a round-nose bullet. The fore-to-aft dimension of the magazine body is 1.372-.006 at the exterior. That makes the minimum in-spec dimension 1.366" less the metal thickness. So, yes, the Tokarev round is slightly too long, but should work with hollow point or flat-point bullets.

Quote:

see this:

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...-tokarev/99440

Interesting. Thanks.

Bill DeShivs · March 31, 2024, 07:57 PM

You would need to start with a Super .38 or 9mm 1911.

**Aguila Blanca** · March 31, 2024, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

You would need to start with a Super .38 or 9mm 1911.

Or a 9mm or .38 Super slide.

ballardw · April 1, 2024, 01:15 AM

Or a .22TCM.

Nathan · April 1, 2024, 10:38 AM

Wow! The original 30 super carry!

Jim Watson · April 1, 2024, 11:12 AM

This was a common project a while back with barrels from J&G and Numrich.

7.62x25 is too long for the 1911. People were getting maybe 5 rounds in a Super magazine at a slant. Maybe a commercial hollowpoint will fit and you can handload short, which kind of defeats the purpose of plinking with Iron Curtain surplus.

I read of squeezing magazines to elongate them as much as the magazine well would accept to get a shot or two more.

Some of the intrepid experimenters were deep seating bullets in that Iron Curtain surplus, which raised pressure in an already hot load.

Said Iron Curtain surplus tended to hard "submachine gun" primers and there were some extra strength mainsprings installed to fire them.

The ST article mentions some of that, but unfortunately did not get into reloading suitable OAL ammo with commercial primers.

44caliberkid · April 1, 2024, 11:34 AM

I have a CZ52 and a Tokarev. The CZ is an excellent firearm. I still want Ruger and S&W to make their 557 pistols in 7.62x25. Maybe a Lipsey’s limited run just to prove their viability. And get the ammo manufacturers on board. A Hornady XTP at 1700 fps would be pretty cool. I have some Tokarev hollow point ammo from a small batch maker that I got in the 80’s. Privi used to make JHP for 7.62x25, but I haven’t seen any since Obama was President.

Webleymkv · April 1, 2024, 12:15 PM

I just checked the magazines from my CZ-52 against all the large-frame, single-stack pistols that I have access to which include two 1911's (a S&W and a Springfield), a Ruger P90, and a S&W 1076 and the CZ's magazines were too long front-to-back to fit in the mag well of any of them. I don't know if perhaps the magazine from a TT-30/33 or Zastava M57 might be short enough to fit, but I rather doubt it as, when loaded with S&B factory 85 gr FMJ there isn't much extra room in my CZ's magazine. I suspect that in order to make such a conversion work, you'd have to have a 1911 with different mag well dimensions in order to fit a magazine that would work reliably. Perhaps a Coonan frame might work as .357 Magnum has an OAL of 1.59" which is longer than the 7.62x25's, but as I understand it the Coonan magazines stack the cartridges at an upward angle to address both the long OAL of .357 Magnum and the rimmed case, so it still might not be long enough (I don't have access to a Coonan having never seen one in person, so I don't know).

It seems to me that, if you have a 1911 frame with a large enough mag well to accept it, the easiest way to make this conversion work would be to modify the magazine from an existing 7.62x25 pistol like a Zastava M57, TT-30/33, or CZ-52 to work in the 1911. If, however, you're wanting to convert a standard 1911 frame that you already have, I think it's doubtful that you'll be able to get it to run reliably unless you're willing to handload ammunition to a shorter OAL specifically for this gun by deep-seating the bullets and/or using lighter bullets.

Honestly, I like 7.62x25 as much as anyone and more than most (my CZ-52 was my first handgun) and I think it would make a dandy service pistol cartridge if loaded with modern bullets. However, given the availability of factory ammunition available for it and the guns chambered in it, my interest in the cartridge is more mechanical curiosity and historical value than practicality. If you want a 7.62x25 1911 just for the "something different" factor, I get that, but for any other purpose I think it would be a lot easier and more cost effective to simply buy an existing gun in 7.62x25 or a 1911 in a different caliber.

**44 AMP** · April 1, 2024, 07:43 PM

The big issue is that the length of the round is kind of at the "break point" for common (and uncommon) pistol frames.

The spec given for the Russian round is .005" longer than the .30 Mauser. Might fit in a broomhandle but there are several other issues with that.

Too long for a regular 1911 size frame. Would fit in a Coonan or LAR Grizzly or Desert Eagle without too much modification, but when you get to that size gun, you have the option of MUCH BETTER (and bigger) cartridges.

Jim Watson · April 1, 2024, 08:30 PM

There is a Chicom 7.62x25 that looks like a stretched P226.
But not allowed here and I no longer see it at Marstar in Canada.

**Aguila Blanca** · April 2, 2024, 12:18 AM

The 7.62x25 would probably fit in the Rock Island .22 Magnum 1911, but I don't know if that will accept a standard slide of if it would need a longer space between the locking pugs and the breech face. I suspect it would.

ootjh121 · April 6, 2024, 07:57 AM

Can you give the contact information for the company selling these barrels??
Thanks!

**Aguila Blanca** · April 6, 2024, 03:18 PM

It was J&G Sales, but I can't find the barrels on their site now, so they may have sold out. Supposedly, Numrich also had them.

Jim Watson · April 6, 2024, 04:29 PM

Just to contribute to the delinquency of a handloader, you can get 1500 fps with a 90 grain .38 Super and a lot less Hokey Pokey with over length ammo.

74A95 · April 6, 2024, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

Just to contribute to the delinquency of a handloader, you can get 1500 fps with a 90 grain .38 Super and a lot less Hokey Pokey with over length ammo.

Should be able to easily get more than that, since you can get 1500 fps with a 115 grain bullet in the 38 Super. Gotta love that Super!

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...38-super/99160

Forte S+W · April 6, 2024, 08:07 PM

It is to my understanding that you also need a special magazine or at least followers which enable the 7.62x25 round to fit/feed at a slanted angle because the cartridge is too long to fit into the magazine/grip in the ordinary orientation.
Also, as a result, a standard .45 ACP 1911 Magazine can only fit 4-5 rounds of 7.62x25 Tokarev.

March 31, 2024, 03:40 PM	#1
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,496	Temptation! I found a place selling 1911 barrels chambered for 7.62x25 Tokarev. Never thought about that as a possibility, never knew such a thing might be possible, let alone available. Now that I know it exists -- I want one. Of course, I don't have anything else that fires that cartridge, and I don't reload for it. There is no practical reason under the sun to buy the barrel -- but I still want one. Somebody talk me down. PLEASE. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

March 31, 2024, 04:06 PM	#3
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 25,023	Will 7.62x25 even fit into a 1911 magazine? I was looking at a conversion barrel for a 10mm Glock some time back and found that the OAL of the 7.62x25 was too long for the mags. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

March 31, 2024, 07:57 PM	#7
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,991	You would need to start with a Super .38 or 9mm 1911. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

April 1, 2024, 01:15 AM	#9
ballardw Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 1,415	Or a .22TCM. __________________ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ All data is flawed, some just less so.

April 1, 2024, 07:43 PM	#14
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,906	The big issue is that the length of the round is kind of at the "break point" for common (and uncommon) pistol frames. The spec given for the Russian round is .005" longer than the .30 Mauser. Might fit in a broomhandle but there are several other issues with that. Too long for a regular 1911 size frame. Would fit in a Coonan or LAR Grizzly or Desert Eagle without too much modification, but when you get to that size gun, you have the option of MUCH BETTER (and bigger) cartridges. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

March 31, 2024, 04:05 PM	#2
Recycled bullet Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2022 Posts: 345	Are they an easy drop-in fit that requires no fitting and all you'd have to do is get magazines and ammunition?

March 31, 2024, 04:13 PM	#4
74A95 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Posts: 1,574	see this: https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...-tokarev/99440

April 1, 2024, 10:38 AM	#10
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,344	Wow! The original 30 super carry!

April 1, 2024, 11:12 AM	#11
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,568	This was a common project a while back with barrels from J&G and Numrich. 7.62x25 is too long for the 1911. People were getting maybe 5 rounds in a Super magazine at a slant. Maybe a commercial hollowpoint will fit and you can handload short, which kind of defeats the purpose of plinking with Iron Curtain surplus. I read of squeezing magazines to elongate them as much as the magazine well would accept to get a shot or two more. Some of the intrepid experimenters were deep seating bullets in that Iron Curtain surplus, which raised pressure in an already hot load. Said Iron Curtain surplus tended to hard "submachine gun" primers and there were some extra strength mainsprings installed to fire them. The ST article mentions some of that, but unfortunately did not get into reloading suitable OAL ammo with commercial primers.

April 1, 2024, 11:34 AM	#12
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,111	I have a CZ52 and a Tokarev. The CZ is an excellent firearm. I still want Ruger and S&W to make their 557 pistols in 7.62x25. Maybe a Lipsey’s limited run just to prove their viability. And get the ammo manufacturers on board. A Hornady XTP at 1700 fps would be pretty cool. I have some Tokarev hollow point ammo from a small batch maker that I got in the 80’s. Privi used to make JHP for 7.62x25, but I haven’t seen any since Obama was President.

April 1, 2024, 12:15 PM	#13
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,447	I just checked the magazines from my CZ-52 against all the large-frame, single-stack pistols that I have access to which include two 1911's (a S&W and a Springfield), a Ruger P90, and a S&W 1076 and the CZ's magazines were too long front-to-back to fit in the mag well of any of them. I don't know if perhaps the magazine from a TT-30/33 or Zastava M57 might be short enough to fit, but I rather doubt it as, when loaded with S&B factory 85 gr FMJ there isn't much extra room in my CZ's magazine. I suspect that in order to make such a conversion work, you'd have to have a 1911 with different mag well dimensions in order to fit a magazine that would work reliably. Perhaps a Coonan frame might work as .357 Magnum has an OAL of 1.59" which is longer than the 7.62x25's, but as I understand it the Coonan magazines stack the cartridges at an upward angle to address both the long OAL of .357 Magnum and the rimmed case, so it still might not be long enough (I don't have access to a Coonan having never seen one in person, so I don't know). It seems to me that, if you have a 1911 frame with a large enough mag well to accept it, the easiest way to make this conversion work would be to modify the magazine from an existing 7.62x25 pistol like a Zastava M57, TT-30/33, or CZ-52 to work in the 1911. If, however, you're wanting to convert a standard 1911 frame that you already have, I think it's doubtful that you'll be able to get it to run reliably unless you're willing to handload ammunition to a shorter OAL specifically for this gun by deep-seating the bullets and/or using lighter bullets. Honestly, I like 7.62x25 as much as anyone and more than most (my CZ-52 was my first handgun) and I think it would make a dandy service pistol cartridge if loaded with modern bullets. However, given the availability of factory ammunition available for it and the guns chambered in it, my interest in the cartridge is more mechanical curiosity and historical value than practicality. If you want a 7.62x25 1911 just for the "something different" factor, I get that, but for any other purpose I think it would be a lot easier and more cost effective to simply buy an existing gun in 7.62x25 or a 1911 in a different caliber.

April 1, 2024, 08:30 PM	#15
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,568	There is a Chicom 7.62x25 that looks like a stretched P226. But not allowed here and I no longer see it at Marstar in Canada.

April 2, 2024, 12:18 AM	#16
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,496	The 7.62x25 would probably fit in the Rock Island .22 Magnum 1911, but I don't know if that will accept a standard slide of if it would need a longer space between the locking pugs and the breech face. I suspect it would. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

April 6, 2024, 07:57 AM	#17
ootjh121 Junior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 2	Can you give the contact information for the company selling these barrels?? Thanks!

April 6, 2024, 03:18 PM	#18
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,496	It was J&G Sales, but I can't find the barrels on their site now, so they may have sold out. Supposedly, Numrich also had them. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

April 6, 2024, 04:29 PM	#19
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,568	Just to contribute to the delinquency of a handloader, you can get 1500 fps with a 90 grain .38 Super and a lot less Hokey Pokey with over length ammo.

April 6, 2024, 08:07 PM	#21
Forte S+W Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2019 Posts: 820	It is to my understanding that you also need a special magazine or at least followers which enable the 7.62x25 round to fit/feed at a slanted angle because the cartridge is too long to fit into the magazine/grip in the ordinary orientation. Also, as a result, a standard .45 ACP 1911 Magazine can only fit 4-5 rounds of 7.62x25 Tokarev. __________________ Conspiracy theorists are the greatest political spin-doctors of all time. Only they can make the absolute worst political blunders sound like spectacular feats of ingenuity.