glock 23c blew up last weekend

[JohnKSa]

i have yet to see a KB from a glock with an aftermarket barrel

There's a pic of a Glock kB! on TheGunZone that involved an aftermarket barrel.

a fully supported chamber should handle a case failure with no problems.

So you believe that the case failure is what caused the chamber to fail as opposed to this being an overpressure round?

How is it that a case failing (and venting) results in so much additional stress on the chamber that it can split the chamber?

One would logically think that if the case fails that would REDUCE the pressure by allowing the gases to vent through the opening in the case and therefore similarly reduce the stress on the chamber.

[Dash]

having a fully supported chamber helps

the following pics are of a .40sw case failure in an Armscor 1911 from a fellow gun club member, the gun was not damaged whatsoever

[JohnKSa]

the following pics are of a .40sw case failure in an Armscor 1911 from a fellow gun club member, the gun was not damaged whatsoever

That's EXACTLY my point. A simple case failure should NOT result in significant damage to the gun.

A simple case failure (a case that is weakened or defective blows out at the feedramp) is NOT an overpressure event, but rather a FAILURE of the case. That should not result in any significant damage to the gun past possible damage to the magazine & magazine catch.

Furthermore I'm saying that the presence of significant damage (such as a peeled feedramp, split chamber or damaged slide) is, in and of itself, sufficient evidence to make the determination that a simple case failure was not the issue, but rather that an overpressure event took place. I don't understand why it is that people believe that a case failure can CAUSE a chamber to split. Logically if the chamber splits there had to be excess pressure. That excess pressure will also naturally cause the case to fail, but that's a second symptom of an overpressure event, not the other way around.

The bigger point being that a case failure can be encouraged (though not CAUSED) by reduced case support, but reduced case support will not cause a case failure (in the absence of a defective or weakened case) and neither a case failure or reduced case support will cause the chamber to split or the feedramp to peel down, etc.

Again, I wish someone would explain the mechanism by which they believe a simple case failure generates sufficient pressure to deform and split a steel chamber.
****************************************
Cause

• Overpressure Event

Results

• Blown Case
• Possible damage to the magazine/magazine release
• Possible damage to chamber/barrel/slide/frame

****************************************
Cause

• Weakened or defective case

Result

• Simple Case Failure/Blown Case
• Possible damage to the magazine/magazine release

****************************************
Cause

• Reduced chamber support

Result

• NOTHING unless the case is weakened or defective in which case a simple case failure may result.

****************************************
The point is that reduced chamber support doesn't cause ANYTHING unless you put a bad/weakened case in the gun.

Reduced chamber support also doesn't do anything to make a simple case failure worse. No one has explained or even hypothesized about a mechanism by which reduced chamber support can turn a simple case failure into a split chamber or peeled feedramp.

[Dash]

i still believe that it was not an overcharged round, the explosion was not remarkable. I still think it is a glock .40 flaw.

facts: of all the case failures on the local range 2 resulted in firearm damage. both were .40 glocks. why does other .40 firearms contain a case failure and not a glock?

4 damaged glocks in my gunsmith were all .40 glocks.

are all those because of overcharged rounds? or a design flaw of the .40 glock?

i have been looking around the net, most glock KBs were with .40sw glocks. there are just too many incidents out there to just blame the ammo.

so there are 4 40sw glocks that i know of damaged here in our small city of bacolod, there are even other incidents in manila, one even captured in a youtube video.

why the 40sw glocks only?

[Sport45]

It looks to me like the chamber wall is paper thin on the right side.

That's just from the camera angle. If the shot had been taken square with the cartridge base everything would look symmetrical left to right.

[Willie Lowman]

I have been putting 155gr JHPs on 6.5 grains of Unique all morning. I am using once fired PMC, UMC and WWB brass. I don't reload my brass more than once because I am afraid of this very thing happening.

There`s many guns that have their reputation of FTF,FTE but not many more have the KABOOM factor than the Glock... Always blamed on a reload!

I suppose the .40 Glock is infamous for it. It is always blamed on a reload because nobody's pistol KBed on a factory load. This comes down to responsibility, if my G24C blows up this weekend it will be my fault for screwing up the load. FWIW, I load on a RCBS Rockchucker. I see every step on every round. I weigh my one of powder charges every 8 rounds for consistency. What kind of reloading machine are you guys using?

[ElectricHellfire]

Why can't some people just read the manual and do what it says for god's sake? NO hand-loads in Glocks.

Hell, even if you don't read the manual, this has been beaten to death on the forums.

You should not be surprised that it blew up.

[HisSoldier]

That's just from the camera angle.

That's the torn edge I'm looking at. Camera angle can't effect that thin torn edge. People will believe what they want to though.

[HisSoldier]

Why can't some people just read the manual and do what it says for god's sake? NO hand-loads in Glocks.

I don't understand why anyone would want a gun that can't be hand loaded for. Most 1911's have that liability dodge in their manuals but there are probably many times as many reloads going through them than off the shelf ammo. If I shoot a pistol very much (Except .22 LR) handloading is not an option, it's a necessity.

[Silvanus]

Handloads + unjacketed lead bullets ... Really, how often does it have to happen for people to realize this is not what they should shoot in their Glocks:barf:

[Dingoboyx]

another possibility is the quality (tolerance) of the teflon projectile. I had an excessive weekend last weekend and shot shootloads of ammo (handloads) thru my 44-40 and 44 mag Vaquaros (sorry, I know this is the SA forum.... I also shoot Glock 34 and P22) Whilst reloading just now, I wondered why some of my teflon slugs, especially the 44-40, the slug would sit nicely in the flared case mouth, and others wouldnt even start to back into the mouth. I had a lightbulb moment and grabbed the trusty vernier caliper and measued the seats of the projectiles. I use green coloured slugs for the 44-40 and orange for the mag, so as not to confuse when lining up ammo for a sinerio SASA
Seems the green slugs that should be 10.84mm (.427") for the 44-40 had got some 10.92mm (.430") slugs mixed in from my supplier Then I checked the orange mag slugs that should be 10.92 (.430") for the magnum, they are all 10.88mm (.428")??? Luckily, 44-40 can shoot up to 10.92 slugs.

The reason for all this waffle about my revolvers (in the SA forum) is that perhapse whoever supplied the projectiles to your BiL, has a few odd ones in there (mold didnt close properly?) meaning that one particular projectile was just a teeny weenie bit big for the barrel, thus the charge could find an easier way out, thru the partially un supported case? Did the projectile exit the barrel? How many times had the case been reloaded? Was it weakened by too many reloads?

Maybe a whole lot of things just went wrong on the day, perhapse all of them? The case might have been a bit tired, the projectile a tad too big, a bit hot load, and perhapse the case (with a weak spot from a few firings before) and the weak spot just happened to be in the worst (most un supported) place it could have been (bad luck)

Maybe your BiL should check his remaining projectiles to see that they are within tollerance for the glock barrel? see if there is a few fat ones in there?

I am so glad I saw this post.... I have all the dies and things to handload for my Glock 34 and I am just waiting for some projectiles to arrive (from the same supplier ) so I am going to measure them for consistancy before I load them..... Actually, to be honest, I really dont think I will bother re loading 9mm now. I can buy 50 jacketed factory ammo from my club for $15 for 50, or from my local GS 50 factory lead heads for $20 Might be safer in the long run to stick with factory ammo?

My Glock 34 has a stainless Storm Lake Barrel.... gonna definately go check how much is unsupported

Thanks again for the thread, I would never have imagined that could have happened.... Will make me check everything (twice) from now on.

Glad no one was hurt

Muzza

[Dingoboyx]

You just sold me...... Not gonna reload for my glock 34, I lljust have to stash the dies in the "museum" with the other crud I wont use

I dont think unjacketed lead (factory) ammo should be a prob in my G34 coz of the aftermarket barrell? Whats your opinion Silvanus & HiSoldier?

Muzza

[ElectricHellfire]

I believe many of the aftermarket barrels have regular rifling, not the polygonal that comes on stock Glock barrels. If you have an aftermarket barrel, lead bullets are ok from what I hear. Some also have full chamber support so you would be covered in that regard as well.

[Dingoboyx]

What do you think about my suggestion about a dodgy slug? If the slug was a bit big and therefore strugling to get down the barrel, the case might have failed due tho the unsupported bit not being able to hold up against the charge? Is it a possible explaination you reckon?

Muzza

[ElectricHellfire]

Dingoboyx,

I think that is entirely plausable also. As you stated above in your earlier post it might have been a combination of factors as well.

However, I think you are safe with your Storm Lake barrel. No worries.

[Silvanus]

Whats your opinion

As long as it has a standard rifling, lead bullets are no problem. But barrels with a polygonal rifling do not like unjacketed lead

[B.N.Real]

The 40 S&W seems to have a penchant for this problem but unfortunately because you used privately reloaded rounds in it and said as much,you have voided the warranty.

At least,if you had used commercially availible reloads you might have been able to get some compensation.

There was a flurry of these reports and then they went away,mostly,I think,because shooters stopped trying to run hot handloads in Glocks.

The thing is that it did not need to be a hot reload that caused the ka boom,it only needed to be a case that had been reused one to many times.

A thin area at the case head due to stretch would have done this even with a standard load.

Glad to read you were o.k and nice to read you are being honest about using a handloaded round when it blew.

[DarthTedd]

I know it's been brought up a few times already in this thread, but how is Glock responsible when their warranty wasn't followed?

I work for an electronics retailer & we have many customers who use the devices in environments the specs were not intended for. Our warranty clearly states the designed use, yet customers who can't follow it call in asking for free repairs when the device is damaged.

I don't see the logic.

[djohn]

Another senerio is bullet seating for thats very important, example i have read somewhere that some don't recommend 180 GR on a 40 because its easy to boost pressure from excessive seating and There for the pressure can be doubled rather easily.

[B.N.Real]

djohn ,you are absolutely right.

If the case was'nt resized properly and the bullet sunk in under recoil while in the mag..ouch!

All that pressure would be concentrated right at the back of the case-right where the barrel does not support the case.

Great call!

[djohn]

Thanks B.N, Real and On that note I usually never give second thoughts to the KBs but when a thread like this comes along I can't help thinking of it when I shoot my bottlenecked Sig .357. I think its time to build custom kevlar Gloves.LOL

[dougbull]

of course glad no one got hurt.every gun owners nightmare. that is the 4th time I heard of a glock blowing up in sombodys hand.I guess the great glock aint so great after all.none of my 9mms ever did that not the smiths, taurus, kel-tec, hell not even my high-point. so much for gun snobs

[Sport45]

That's the torn edge I'm looking at. Camera angle can't effect that thin torn edge. People will believe what they want to though.

I was looking at the barrel that still had the feed ramp attached. The camera angle makes the near side look rather thin.

It's hard to tell much about bent, twisted metal from only one picture. But the blown chamber does look impossibly thin in the area you mention.

[ldpantoja]

pics wont show on my PC

Can anybody on here send them to me?

[JohnKSa]

why the 40sw glocks only?

It's not ONLY the .40S&W Glocks, but there are some reasons why .40S&W is not as tolerant of what would otherwise be considered minor reloading glitches.

For example, when you're using the 180gr bullets, seating them just 0.10" too deep can DOUBLE the discharge pressure. By the same token, if the case doesn't grip the bullet firmly enough and the bullet is set back 0.10" during the feeding process the same thing applies.

Just for fun, try this experiment. Take your brother-in-law's reloads and measure 10 of them for OAL. Chamber each round, eject it and then re-measure each round and see if the bullets are setting back and by how much.

Also it would be interesting to find out if he's using 180gr bullets.