what law is violated???

hogdogs · August 31, 2009, 02:36 PM

If I am stopped by a LEO and he asks me a direct question such as "Do you have any guns drugs or large quantities of cash?". Am I violating a law if I answer no to all but I have a rifle and pistol in the vehicle? A "gun" is, by definition a smoothbore projectile launching platform.
Brent

DiscoRacing · August 31, 2009, 02:39 PM

Only if I had a really good lawyer in the passenger seat with me would I count on that technicality......

zxcvbob · August 31, 2009, 02:41 PM

Don't answer; deflect.

ZeSpectre · August 31, 2009, 02:54 PM

"Do you have any guns drugs or large quantities of cash?"
"Can I ask why you have pulled me over?"

"Do you have any guns drugs or large quantities of cash?"
"Officer, have I done something to cause you to pull me over?"

"Do you have any guns drugs or large quantities of cash?"
"Officer, am I under arrest?"

on and on and on.

hogdogs · August 31, 2009, 02:57 PM

Ze, In florida that will get you arrested for "interfering with a police investigation" BTDT already

Call me a button pusher if you want but if you do, you gotta call me a good one

Jail food sux!
Brent

brickeyee · August 31, 2009, 02:57 PM

You can't lie, but you do not have to answer the question.

Nice day. Why am I being pulled over.?

CWPinSC · August 31, 2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Ze, In florida that will get you arrested for "interfering with a police investigation" BTDT already

And in SC that'll get you hauled out and you and your vehicle searched. Doesn't take much to come up with "probable cause".

hogdogs · August 31, 2009, 03:04 PM

I just researched the word gun and it seems I would be lying as it looks like gun is no longer smoothbore and any projectile emitting hand held device could be termed a gun...
Brent

ZeSpectre · August 31, 2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Ze, In florida that will get you arrested for "interfering with a police investigation" BTDT already

And were you charged, etc. or were you released?
My lawyer would eat that one alive on 5'th Amendment grounds alone.

Quote:

And in SC that'll get you hauled out and you and your vehicle searched. Doesn't take much to come up with "probable cause".

Nope, sometimes you are just jacked.

45Gunner · August 31, 2009, 03:14 PM

Unless you are a felon and have something to hide, always be honest and open with your answer. If the LEO gets suspicious and decides to investigate, you would have already lied once and you are not in a favorable position and no matter what you say thereafter, will be looked upon with a dubious eye.

Got stopped for speeding late one night while returning home with my wife. The LEO was the County Deputy Sheriff. His first question: Sir, do you own the vehicle. My reply: Yes. (Short, and to the point.) Sir, do you have any concealed weapons in your car? My response: Yes, I am a retired Federal Agent. His reply, Have a good night. I related this story to a friend who is a retired local LEO. He said he would have said the exact same thing as I did except he would have ID'd himself as a local LEO. OH, and if you ever get stopped for any reason, keep both hands on the steering wheel until the LEO is comfortable enough to ask you for your license and registration. Make him feel good and perhaps, just perhaps you may get a warning.

If I had lied and said no and he decided to search my car, at the very least it would have been very time consuming, maybe cost me a trip to the judge and the expense of a lawyer as to why I was lying, etc. etc., not to mention the speeding ticket.

hogdogs · August 31, 2009, 03:16 PM

I was arrested, car searched and impounded and charges were dropped the next day but it still cost me $110 to get my car back...

Brent

hogdogs · August 31, 2009, 03:21 PM

The thread was initially just based on the term "gun" that as I was taught is a smoothbore so a "no" answer would have been honest if it were a pistol or rifle.

But due to thread veer I will answer to the last ones... If you answer no to the profiling question of guns drugs or cash, the next thing that will be asked is for permission to search. Then if you decline, the cop claims the probable cause clause and pulls you out and at minimum will run the dog around, or search it as they claim any innocent person will have no problem with them searching without a warrant so you must be hiding something

Brent

koolminx · August 31, 2009, 03:30 PM

Everyone has the right to lie and say no, even if it's not a lie. But the hassle that comes with it is time consuming.

I don't really think it's anyone's business if I do or do not have a gun/weapon in the car as the weapon (whatever it may be) has nothing to do with why I was being pulled over.

Now an inspection checkpoint or a DWI checkpoint or a Missing Person search is altogether different, at that point it's a safety issue, for you AND the officer searching the vehicle.

I think that 99% of the time the only reason they ask the question is that once again 80% of criminals driving a car/truck and getting pulled over are just plain stupid... Some answer with "Yes, I got a 'whatever' under the seat". I see it on COPS occasionally, where the perp admits it... It's a perk for the officer to not have to "accidentally" find out...

I'm always respectful when I get pulled over, and it's a rare occasion, but when they do it's because I was speeding... So I don't fuss about it

TenmaNeko · August 31, 2009, 03:37 PM

Refusing a search is not grounds for probable cause to search.

So, saying no doesn't allow them to do it (legally).

Brian Pfleuger · August 31, 2009, 03:43 PM

I'm pretty sure that they're not even allowed to ask those questions without a reason, at least in some places.

Around here, the default question is "Where are you going and where are you coming from?"

You do NOT have to answer that question.

Do you have any guns, drugs or large quantities of cash.

My answer would be:

"officer, I have a permit for a concealed handgun and I am carrying a gun, it is in a holster on my waist. I do not have any illegal drugs."

If they pressed the point about cash I would flatly refuse to answer. The amount of cash I am carrying is not only none of their business but also completely and totally irrelevant.

Refusing to answer a question that is not related to a crime is not "interfering with an investigation" and subsequently refusing to allow a search is not a crime. If they press the matter then you should cooperate and then sue the department.

zxcvbob · August 31, 2009, 04:03 PM

Put him on the defensive; "What, are you soliciting a bribe? (speak into the microphone)"

**Bud Helms** · August 31, 2009, 04:06 PM

According to hogdogs, his original topic is based on the false definition he had of "gun", and claims "thread veer" from the original topic.

I say, it was a shaky topic at best. We are staring a cop-bashing thread in the face.

Without sharing my beliefs on roadside stops, searches and seizures, I will say that impeding an ongoing investigation by a sworn officer is a chargeable offense. So, know when an investigation has begun and be cautious of your conduct when stopped and questioned by a sworn officer on a public right-of-way.

Enforcers may lie to you, but you may not lie to them.

Skans · August 31, 2009, 04:50 PM

I've been unlawfully searched before. At the time, I didn't know it - I was only 19. I got stopped doing a little over 60 in a 55. Cop made me sit in the back of his car while he interrogated me and my girl friend and another cop brought the drug dog out to sniff around my car. Since I've never done drugs, I really had nothing to worry about. I was released and given a speeding ticket for exceeding the speed limit by 6mph.

However, if this happened to me today, I wouldn't be quite as cooperative. I'd ask if I'm under arrest. I'd ask what he's investigating. But, before I become a "wise-ass", I'd just tell the officer that, before I answer any further questions that i want my lawyer to be present. Then I'd shut up.

AK103K · August 31, 2009, 05:47 PM

How about asking "Am I required by law to answer the question?", like the boy who works for Ron Paul did, over and over, at the airport when he was detained.

They would never tell him "yes", but they threatened a lot by innuendo. He eventually walked, and kept the large sum of money he was also carrying.

Heres the link if you havent already heard it.....

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...ning+passenger

NavyLT · August 31, 2009, 08:12 PM

My response, if my weapon is not on my person:

Do you have any guns in the car?

Yes.

Where are they?

In the glove box.

Step out of the vehicle, please.

I remove the keys from the ignition, get out of the car and lock it behind me with the keys in my pocket.

What did you do that for?

To make it clear that I do not consent to any search of my vehicle.

I have to admit, I haven't tried it yet, but that is my plan.

WIN71 · August 31, 2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

"Do you have any guns drugs or large quantities of cash?"
"Can I ask why you have pulled me over?"

"Do you have any guns drugs or large quantities of cash?"
"Officer, have I done something to cause you to pull me over?"

"Do you have any guns drugs or large quantities of cash?"
"Officer, am I under arrest?"

on and on and on.

Now that's the kind of attitude almost any street savy beat cop could have fun with.................

**Shane Tuttle** · August 31, 2009, 09:36 PM

Maybe I've been extremely lucky in my life, but I just don't buy in to the suggestions given that only make the LE officer's life harder. I grew up in Texas, lived in Colorado, Michigan, Illinios, and now Iowa for several years at each place. I've encountered city, county, and state officials alike. NOT ONCE have I had an officer pidgeon hole me into anything that I didn't deserve. In my early years of driving, my attitude was either making up a stupid excuse or have a chip on my shoulder. Most of the time I ended up with a citation for the reason I was pulled over from the beginning. In my later years, I immediately pulled over, roll down both windows, car turned off and hand on the wheel. I don't even go for my license or registration until asked so the officer can watch my every move. On top of that, I tell him where my hands are going before I make my move. And here's the kicker, I answer any question he asks with a DIRECT answer. When he states the reason why he/she pulled me over and I knew why, I tell the truth. I was an idiot and immediately apologize. I never kiss up, but I always remain courteous. And I've never had an issue when the answer was "yes, I do have a firearm in the vehicle".

Funny thing is, ever since I actually made the officers' life much easier I haven't had one single ticket (knock on wood). Now, maybe I'm the minority here, but I'm willing to bet the one person that has had a bad experience because they simply cooperated with the officer is outnumbered by 100 with a different experience. Has that crossed anyone's mind?

Brian Pfleuger · August 31, 2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Funny thing is, ever since I actually made the officers' life much easier I haven't had one single ticket (knock on wood). Now, maybe I'm the minority here, but I'm willing to bet the one person that has had a bad experience because they simply cooperated with the officer is outnumbered by 100 with a different experience. Has that crossed anyone's mind?

It has certainly crossed my mind. In fact, I've had the nearly identical experience you describe. However, I've never had the officers ask me questions like those in the OP either. There are the standard, expected questions and then there's "Are you carrying a lot of cash?" I'm sorry, that is irrelevent and I would not answer that question. They don't really have the right to know where I'm coming or where I'm going either but I tolerate those questions to make my own life easier. Asking me about money during a simple traffic stop is over the line.

One of the reasons I carry a gun is because as a business owner I do sometimes have large amounts if cash. Who says that those 3 things (guns, cash and drugs) go together? Why should I be suspected of having drugs just because I have money and a gun?

hogdogs · August 31, 2009, 10:49 PM

The "guns, drugs, or large quantity of cash" question is directly a florida anti drug smugglin' thing.
Brent

Brian Pfleuger · August 31, 2009, 11:09 PM

Quote:

The "guns, drugs, or large quantity of cash" question is directly a florida anti drug smugglin' thing.

I believe it, but it's still wrong headed profiling. What if my pizza shop was in FL? If I get pulled over and I've got cash and a gun then I'm suddenly a drug suspect? Stupid is what that is.

The only certain thing about drugs is the presence of drugs. Armed or unarmed, rich or poor, white or black, cash or plastic... All irrelevent.

I mean, my God! We're going to start searching anyone who acknowledges that they have cash with them during a traffic stop?!

August 31, 2009, 02:36 PM	#1
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	what law is violated??? If I am stopped by a LEO and he asks me a direct question such as "Do you have any guns drugs or large quantities of cash?". Am I violating a law if I answer no to all but I have a rifle and pistol in the vehicle? A "gun" is, by definition a smoothbore projectile launching platform. Brent

August 31, 2009, 02:41 PM	#3
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Don't answer; deflect. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

August 31, 2009, 02:54 PM	#4
ZeSpectre Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Shenandoah Valley Posts: 3,276	"Do you have any guns drugs or large quantities of cash?" "Can I ask why you have pulled me over?" "Do you have any guns drugs or large quantities of cash?" "Officer, have I done something to cause you to pull me over?" "Do you have any guns drugs or large quantities of cash?" "Officer, am I under arrest?" on and on and on. __________________ "The dogs may bark but the caravan moves on"

August 31, 2009, 03:14 PM	#10
45Gunner Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,902	Unless you are a felon and have something to hide, always be honest and open with your answer. If the LEO gets suspicious and decides to investigate, you would have already lied once and you are not in a favorable position and no matter what you say thereafter, will be looked upon with a dubious eye. Got stopped for speeding late one night while returning home with my wife. The LEO was the County Deputy Sheriff. His first question: Sir, do you own the vehicle. My reply: Yes. (Short, and to the point.) Sir, do you have any concealed weapons in your car? My response: Yes, I am a retired Federal Agent. His reply, Have a good night. I related this story to a friend who is a retired local LEO. He said he would have said the exact same thing as I did except he would have ID'd himself as a local LEO. OH, and if you ever get stopped for any reason, keep both hands on the steering wheel until the LEO is comfortable enough to ask you for your license and registration. Make him feel good and perhaps, just perhaps you may get a warning. If I had lied and said no and he decided to search my car, at the very least it would have been very time consuming, maybe cost me a trip to the judge and the expense of a lawyer as to why I was lying, etc. etc., not to mention the speeding ticket. __________________ 45Gunner May the Schwartz Be With You. NRA Instructor NRA Life Member

August 31, 2009, 03:43 PM	#15
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	I'm pretty sure that they're not even allowed to ask those questions without a reason, at least in some places. Around here, the default question is "Where are you going and where are you coming from?" You do NOT have to answer that question. Do you have any guns, drugs or large quantities of cash. My answer would be: "officer, I have a permit for a concealed handgun and I am carrying a gun, it is in a holster on my waist. I do not have any illegal drugs." If they pressed the point about cash I would flatly refuse to answer. The amount of cash I am carrying is not only none of their business but also completely and totally irrelevant. Refusing to answer a question that is not related to a crime is not "interfering with an investigation" and subsequently refusing to allow a search is not a crime. If they press the matter then you should cooperate and then sue the department. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

August 31, 2009, 02:39 PM	#2
DiscoRacing Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: milton, wv Posts: 3,640	Only if I had a really good lawyer in the passenger seat with me would I count on that technicality......

August 31, 2009, 02:57 PM	#5
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Ze, In florida that will get you arrested for "interfering with a police investigation" BTDT already Call me a button pusher if you want but if you do, you gotta call me a good one Jail food sux! Brent

August 31, 2009, 02:57 PM	#6
brickeyee Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Posts: 3,351	You can't lie, but you do not have to answer the question. Nice day. Why am I being pulled over.?

August 31, 2009, 03:04 PM	#8
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	I just researched the word gun and it seems I would be lying as it looks like gun is no longer smoothbore and any projectile emitting hand held device could be termed a gun... Brent

August 31, 2009, 03:16 PM	#11
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	I was arrested, car searched and impounded and charges were dropped the next day but it still cost me $110 to get my car back... Brent

August 31, 2009, 03:21 PM	#12
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	The thread was initially just based on the term "gun" that as I was taught is a smoothbore so a "no" answer would have been honest if it were a pistol or rifle. But due to thread veer I will answer to the last ones... If you answer no to the profiling question of guns drugs or cash, the next thing that will be asked is for permission to search. Then if you decline, the cop claims the probable cause clause and pulls you out and at minimum will run the dog around, or search it as they claim any innocent person will have no problem with them searching without a warrant so you must be hiding something Brent

August 31, 2009, 03:30 PM	#13
koolminx Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2009 Posts: 520	Everyone has the right to lie and say no, even if it's not a lie. But the hassle that comes with it is time consuming. I don't really think it's anyone's business if I do or do not have a gun/weapon in the car as the weapon (whatever it may be) has nothing to do with why I was being pulled over. Now an inspection checkpoint or a DWI checkpoint or a Missing Person search is altogether different, at that point it's a safety issue, for you AND the officer searching the vehicle. I think that 99% of the time the only reason they ask the question is that once again 80% of criminals driving a car/truck and getting pulled over are just plain stupid... Some answer with "Yes, I got a 'whatever' under the seat". I see it on COPS occasionally, where the perp admits it... It's a perk for the officer to not have to "accidentally" find out... I'm always respectful when I get pulled over, and it's a rare occasion, but when they do it's because I was speeding... So I don't fuss about it

August 31, 2009, 03:37 PM	#14
TenmaNeko Member Join Date: June 10, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 62	Refusing a search is not grounds for probable cause to search. So, saying no doesn't allow them to do it (legally).

August 31, 2009, 04:03 PM	#16
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Put him on the defensive; "What, are you soliciting a bribe? (speak into the microphone)" __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

August 31, 2009, 04:06 PM	#17
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	According to hogdogs, his original topic is based on the false definition he had of "gun", and claims "thread veer" from the original topic. I say, it was a shaky topic at best. We are staring a cop-bashing thread in the face. Without sharing my beliefs on roadside stops, searches and seizures, I will say that impeding an ongoing investigation by a sworn officer is a chargeable offense. So, know when an investigation has begun and be cautious of your conduct when stopped and questioned by a sworn officer on a public right-of-way. Enforcers may lie to you, but you may not lie to them.

August 31, 2009, 04:50 PM	#18
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	I've been unlawfully searched before. At the time, I didn't know it - I was only 19. I got stopped doing a little over 60 in a 55. Cop made me sit in the back of his car while he interrogated me and my girl friend and another cop brought the drug dog out to sniff around my car. Since I've never done drugs, I really had nothing to worry about. I was released and given a speeding ticket for exceeding the speed limit by 6mph. However, if this happened to me today, I wouldn't be quite as cooperative. I'd ask if I'm under arrest. I'd ask what he's investigating. But, before I become a "wise-ass", I'd just tell the officer that, before I answer any further questions that i want my lawyer to be present. Then I'd shut up.

August 31, 2009, 05:47 PM	#19
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	How about asking "Am I required by law to answer the question?", like the boy who works for Ron Paul did, over and over, at the airport when he was detained. They would never tell him "yes", but they threatened a lot by innuendo. He eventually walked, and kept the large sum of money he was also carrying. Heres the link if you havent already heard it..... http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...ning+passenger

August 31, 2009, 08:12 PM	#20
NavyLT Junior member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Oak Harbor, WA Posts: 1,719	My response, if my weapon is not on my person: Do you have any guns in the car? Yes. Where are they? In the glove box. Step out of the vehicle, please. I remove the keys from the ignition, get out of the car and lock it behind me with the keys in my pocket. What did you do that for? To make it clear that I do not consent to any search of my vehicle. I have to admit, I haven't tried it yet, but that is my plan.

August 31, 2009, 09:36 PM	#22
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,443	Maybe I've been extremely lucky in my life, but I just don't buy in to the suggestions given that only make the LE officer's life harder. I grew up in Texas, lived in Colorado, Michigan, Illinios, and now Iowa for several years at each place. I've encountered city, county, and state officials alike. NOT ONCE have I had an officer pidgeon hole me into anything that I didn't deserve. In my early years of driving, my attitude was either making up a stupid excuse or have a chip on my shoulder. Most of the time I ended up with a citation for the reason I was pulled over from the beginning. In my later years, I immediately pulled over, roll down both windows, car turned off and hand on the wheel. I don't even go for my license or registration until asked so the officer can watch my every move. On top of that, I tell him where my hands are going before I make my move. And here's the kicker, I answer any question he asks with a DIRECT answer. When he states the reason why he/she pulled me over and I knew why, I tell the truth. I was an idiot and immediately apologize. I never kiss up, but I always remain courteous. And I've never had an issue when the answer was "yes, I do have a firearm in the vehicle". Funny thing is, ever since I actually made the officers' life much easier I haven't had one single ticket (knock on wood). Now, maybe I'm the minority here, but I'm willing to bet the one person that has had a bad experience because they simply cooperated with the officer is outnumbered by 100 with a different experience. Has that crossed anyone's mind? __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

August 31, 2009, 10:49 PM	#24
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	The "guns, drugs, or large quantity of cash" question is directly a florida anti drug smugglin' thing. Brent